Budget Mono Blue Control

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So, I haven't posted a decklist in a long time. I haven't played Magic in a long time...

I threw this together to take my mind off other things. I don't have Jace 2.0, so that is why I call this "budget," (even though I have forces, fetches, shackles, etc.). I have not kept up with the sets since like February, so I have no idea if anything has come out that is better than older options.

Some explanation follows list: 

23 Land
16 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand

14 Countermagic
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce

8 Removal
4 Echoing Truth
3 Vedalken Shackles
1 Rushing River

7 Draw
4 Brainstorm
3 Fact or Fiction (kickin' it old school baby)

8 Win
3 Wonder
3 Calcite Snapper
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle

15 Sideboard
4 Propaganda
3 Back to Basics
4 Blue Elemental Blast 
1 Spell Pierce
3 Chain of Vapor

Probably looks like a couple of weird choices in there. The ones I know people will latch onto:
Fact or Fiction - The traditional choice for draw in MUC, which has been outclassed (significantly) by Jace. I just don't know if there is another option. I'm not getting Jace.

Wonder - Yeah, kinda weird. 4 mana is a lot for a 2/2, but he flies and gives my turtles flying if he dies.

Calcite Snapper - it was either him or propaganda MD and I like him because of his versatility. He blocks most things on the ground, no problem. He can't be STP'd, Jace'd, etc. And he can even beat for 4 sometimes. If wonder is in the yard, I have an army of Gameras.

(To be honest, this whole wonder + turtle thing is completely off the top of my head. I've had success with snapper in the past as a decent wall, and I've been on the receiving end of a wonder beatdown which I couldn't stop because it would have given everything else flying. Still...it might just be absurd)

Sphinx of Jwar Isle - without Jace for a win-con I need a (relatively) fast finisher. Sphinx is hard to kill and provides a decent clock. I'm pretty sure if Jace hadn't come along Sphinx would have been the best replacement for Morphling.

The rest is probably self-explanatory, but if not I'll briefly explain...
14 countermagic because I want to stop most things before they come down.

5 Bounce because I can't stop everything. It also hits planeswalkers. Extra help against Ichorid (if that is still meta).

Sideboard:
Propaganda is for extra protection against fast and midrange aggro.
Back to Basics is for Lands, some aggro decks, some storm, and Stacks.
BEB is for Gobbos, burn, Delver, and randoms.
The last spell pierce is for Storm, control mirrors, combo, maybe even Delver. 
Chain of Vapor is extra bounce against whatever.
(Sideboards were never my strong point. Maybe needle should be in there. Or arcane laboratory, or stifle, or tormod's crypt/faerie macabre, or more control magic...I'm just not sure)

I've thought about splashing Red or Black (not white, don't have Tundras), but I'm not sure I gain anything that really puts the deck over the top in those colors.

Thoughts? 

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

I don't really like the deck at all.  You have very little early interaction, with no actual early threats.  Your major threats are basically a million mana for Legacy.  If I'm playing a 3 mana spell, it better damn well be back breaking.  If I'm spending 6 mana on a spell, it better be because I flooded out and I'm hardcasting a Force through a Thalia.

I would highly recommend not trying to do anything like this in a real tournament.  It's simply not going to get there.  Instead, you could try a mono-blue Delver.  Perhaps something like this:



I left out Spell Snare because I don't think it's particularly good right now.  It doesn't really hit much that's relevent other than Goyfs.  I left out Shackles because it's extremely slow.

You could try going black and picking up real removal (Go for the Throat), discard and bigger threats (Bitterblossom, Tombstalker
So, you're saying straight control isn't good anymore? I shouldn't need a ton of "threats" because I stall with countermagic, shackles, and turtles. Once I hit mid-late game I win. The deck is supposed to be slow, it is straight control.

I mean, I can put together UR Delver that is pretty decent (although I only have 1 snapcaster). It would look something like this (off the top of my head):


Obviously still pretty rough. I could also splash green, but I don't have goyfs, so I'd only have access to mongoose.

But really, I was in the mood for a straight control deck, and mono-blue seemed like the way to go (in terms of budget). I guess that is too slow nowadays, eh?

I have a few options for splashing. I have U. Seas and Volcanics. In the past I have splashed white without Tundras (I think it was an old Landstill list with white for StP).

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

Control is viable, just not mono-colored.  Mono-blue (or mono-white, mono-black, whatever) simply doesn't have the ability to answer a diverse enough array of threats that a Legacy tournament requires.  U/W Miracles is a straight up control deck, and it's probably the best deck in the format.  It works because it has the ability to answer diverse threats (Terminus, Swords, CounterTop, V. Clique, etc.).

The problem with your list is that you don't have enough interaction turn 1-3.  Sure, you win if you get to the late game, but you're simply not going to get to late game.  All your early interaction is either a stall tatic (bounce, taxing counters) or a 2-for-1 against you (Force)

If you really, really wanted to try MUC, you have to start with 4x Sensei's Divining Top and 4x Counterbalance.  It's the only way a true control strategy will work right now.

I like the U/R list a lot more than any Mono-Blue list.  I'd probably trim a Lavamancer, as too many leads to them rotting in your hand.  I'd probably also trim a land or two, as 20 is a lot.  I'm not too sure what I'd add.  Snapcaster is the obvious choice, but you only have one.  I'd probably go up a Chain Lightning and a couple counterspells.
Admiral, I think you're right that Tim (self admittedly) has been out of the game long enough that he is missing some meta specific choices here that probably make his deck not optimal, however, you are simply wrong in saying that a monocolored deck is not viable.

www.nogoblinsallowed.com

 

A creative hub for art and all things Magical, Dungeony, and Dragony!

 

Feel free to copy this into your sig, adding one to the generation number.

 

Generation=0

Admiral, I think you're right that Tim (self admittedly) has been out of the game long enough that he is missing some meta specific choices here that probably make his deck not optimal, however, you are simply wrong in saying that a monocolored deck is not viable.


Hey miss_bun! Long time, no see! How have you been?

I just checked The Source and it seems The Gate is still viable (example of mono-colored control).

Maybe I'll do a UB Landstill list. I know Landstill isn't all that great right now, but I have most of the cards for it, and it provides hard removal instead of just bounce.

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

life is good

www.nogoblinsallowed.com

 

A creative hub for art and all things Magical, Dungeony, and Dragony!

 

Feel free to copy this into your sig, adding one to the generation number.

 

Generation=0

Mono blue can be done, but I don't know if budget mono blue can. It's already a weaker deck, and removing it's most powerful card probably isn't going to work. I think a budget Ur(g) Delver would be better. Jace really needs to be there. The card advantage he provides is what keeps MUC in the game. The other win condition is normally Clique. Do you have those? If not, I would definitely suggest trying to build the Ur(g) deck.

What green duals do you have? Do you have Stifle?

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver
4 Mongoose
4 Goblin Guide
1 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force
4 Daze
2 Pierce
3 Stifle

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Bolt
4 Chain

I'd probably try something like this to start out. You can model your manabase after Canadian Thresh, since you only have the one Snapcaster, and no Price of Progress.
I'm not sure it's worthwhile to splash green just for mongoose.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Mono blue can be done, but I don't know if budget mono blue can. It's already a weaker deck, and removing it's most powerful card probably isn't going to work. I think a budget Ur(g) Delver would be better. Jace really needs to be there. The card advantage he provides is what keeps MUC in the game. The other win condition is normally Clique. Do you have those? If not, I would definitely suggest trying to build the Ur(g) deck.

What green duals do you have? Do you have Stifle?

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver
4 Mongoose
4 Goblin Guide
1 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force
4 Daze
2 Pierce
3 Stifle

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Bolt
4 Chain

I'd probably try something like this to start out. You can model your manabase after Canadian Thresh, since you only have the one Snapcaster, and no Price of Progress.


Dude, I thought you left. Good to hear from you.

Yeah, it has become clear that I need Jace to compete with the speed nowadays. Everyone has adjusted to Jace and increased tempo. Hard for traditional MUC to compete anyway, like you said. I never got a chance to pick up cliques either. So that's a problem...

I have all the duals needed for URg. Fetches are a little patch work, but I should have enough not to matter too much (I think I only have 2 scalding tarn and 3 misty rainforest, but I do have 4 each of the other blue fetches).

So, I have everything for that list except 1 chain lightning (something that pains me daily). I do have 2-3 PoP, but my sense is that those aren't worth it without more snapcasters?

Also, I'd be tempted to do a 3/3 split of pierce/daze. Does that even make a difference? Maybe a 3rd pierce instead of that last chain lightning (until I can pick one up)?

@Catotheyounger
My guess is that since Jace is everywhere a shroud beater would be pretty good. And he can trade with lacky. It also opens up enchantment removal from the board. But there are definitely benefits of keeping a more stable manabase. And the ability to add PoP might be something to consider.

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

Long time! Yeah, it's funny how that always happens. I definitely check these less frequently than I used to. In fact, I just started lurking again about two weeks ago, so it's not been long. 

Definitely play the third Pierce if you don't have the Chain. That works just fine. You could also pick up a Forked Bolt, because it is really valuable right now. Although, I really don't think you should drop any Dazes. The best tempo hand starts with land, Delver, Daze. 

I do wonder about Goblin Guide giving them lands, and the problem that may cause with Stifle and Wasteland. Have you tested at all? I'd try with Guide first, and if it doesn't work out, then go back to Lavamancers. In the meantime, I would put them in your sideboard.

4 Submerge (most valuable tempo sb card)
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Pyroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Krosan Grip

Do you have something like that available?  Submerge is just nuts in the matches you can use it. They usually play fetches, GSZ, and maybe Knight, so Submerge in response to one of those is brutal. 

You obviously have lots of other options being three-colored and all. When is the last time you played tempo?
Back when UR Delver first hit the scene I was really skeptical of Goblin Guide for the same reason. But after I tested him it was very clear to me just how good he is. He is very efficient, usually gets damage through, and hardly ever gets them a land. Most of the time you get to see what card they will draw next, which actually helps you decide how to play. I'm not sure they still cut it in today's meta, but a few months ago they were awesome.

I unfortunately don't have any submerges or krosan grips (I know, weird). Everything else I have. Submerge seems the hardest to replace. Is there anything that even comes close?

I'd probably run something like this:

4 Echoing Truth (good versus Dredge, not terrible against other stuff)
4 REB (seems good with the new blue enchantment deck running around)
4 Crypt
3 Ancient Grudge (and just concede VS enchantments?)

Do I need lavamancers in the board?
 

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

have you considered adding wastelands and maybe some manaleaks?

www.nogoblinsallowed.com

 

A creative hub for art and all things Magical, Dungeony, and Dragony!

 

Feel free to copy this into your sig, adding one to the generation number.

 

Generation=0

have you considered adding wastelands and maybe some manaleaks?


You mean to the original mono-blue list?
Wastelands might be fun, although I would really need my land drops in every game. I don't have the ability to capitalize on the tempo gained through a wasteland. But, I suppose if I was only using them as removal for utility lands they could work.

Is mana leak still good? I liked it back before we had spell pierce and spell snare. And it served me well in Vintage (although there I had tinker -> colossus to finish the game). If snare isn't living up to expectations, maybe mana leak could go there. Although it seems like a consensus that MUC just isn't good anymore...makes me kinda miss mental misstep.

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

I don't really like the RUG list.  Mongoose isn't worth splashing for.  Tarmogoyf is another matter...

I'd probably just add some more burn and a couple Lavamancers.  Basically, I'd make it a U/R Delver list.

I think Mana Leak is fine for Legacy, but not optimal.  If your mana base can't support Counterspell (or you need Counterspells #5+), then it's a good option.  Otherwise, there are better counters out there.
MadAdmiral,
Can you explain a bit more about why you don't like the RUG list? Mongoose is a pretty effective beater and is hard to get rid of. And the deck plays lots of things that help get threshold. Is it the weakened manabase? Does UR Delver not need another beat when it has things like lavamancer? Does green not offer any good SBing options? Please say more.

I'd love to run a UR Delver list with only FoW and Daze as counters and the rest burn and beaters. Does this leave me without enough countermagic to effectively fight combo? 

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

It is just not a card that I would want to play as the only card of its color.  Sure, it's a very good attacker, and getting threshold isn't a problem, but having it as your only green card and making it so you can't play any basics is pretty bad.

U/R Delver doesn't play it because the deck wants to be more resiliant to Wasteland and wants to pack in more burn.  Without the green splash, the deck can play 3-5 basics, Wastelands and a total of 17-18 lands, yet still count on being able to get value from Snapcaster(s).

Lavamancers aren't really a replacement for RUG's Mongeese, it's just more reach.  U/R Delver plays out a lot more like Burn (with better draws) than it does RUG Delver.  The creatures get in some early damage, then it finishes the game with a flurry of burn spells and Lavamancers.  The deck doesn't look to deal the full 20 damage with just creatures.

Green does give you good sideboard options, but I think having a stronger main deck makes up for some of that.

U/R Delver is perfectly acceptable.  Having just FoW and Daze is fine, though I would also want some number of Spell Pierces and Stifles too.
Ok, it sounds like I can build an effective UR delver more easily (more viably perhaps) that RUG.

List:


I still want more burn in the main. Although I LOVE stifle, I'm tempted to drop it for a set of incinerate or something (maybe PoP). I know there are some serious players here, but I'm always worried about randoms, because oftentimes randoms bring lots of weenie creatures. Stifle (or spell pierce) doesn't help here, but incinerate might. Another burn spell also improves my reach a bit, granted I still have enough counters to stop my opponent.

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

I wouldn't play 4 Lavamancers.  You'll get them stranded in your hand or on the board with nothing in the yard to use them.  I'd play at most 3.  I think most U/R Delver decks play a couple Price of Progress, so that seems to be a good replacement.

You shouldn't be worried about random small creatures.  Lavamancer is pretty good about mowing them down.

I also think your graveyard hate should be Surgical Extraction.  It's harder to play around, and plays nicely with your 1-of Snapcaster.  I don't like the 3x Pithing Needle in the board because there isn't much you should be worried about that makes it relevant.  Same with Echoing Truth, which I think is a good 2-of at best.  I also don't think you'll ever need more than the 11 counters mainboard, especially REB helps you win counter wars.

Other side board options would include Forked Bolt (since you're worried about weenies), Smelt and Sulfuric Vortex.

Thoughts on Fire // Ice? I know it costs three under Thalia, but it pitchces to FoW and still mows down weenies/gives me some reach.

Not sure I'd run a full set, maybe a 2/2 split with PoP in place of 1 lavamancer and 3 stifle. 

"There are some who call me...Tim?" Go Duke! I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts. Former Member: Team ABS

I am knowledgable about non-rotating formats. I usually have no idea about Standard.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com/

I've seen Fire/Ice in RUG Delver occasionally, and I think it's a fine 1-of.  I wouldn't play more than that however.  Running 3x PoP and 1x Fire/Ice in the 4th Lavamancer and 3 Stifles seems fine to me.
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