Any way in 3.5 D&D to use Intelligence for Use Magic Device?

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I was wondering if there is a (semi-official?) feat (or something) that allows you to add Int (preferably) instead of Charisma to Use Magic Device skill checks.
You know like Weapon Finesse allows you to use Dex instead of Str for melee attack rolls.
Thanks.
I was wondering if there is a (semi-official?) feat (or something) that allows you to add Int (preferably) instead of Charisma to Use Magic Device skill checks.
You know like Weapon Finesse allows you to use Dex instead of Str for melee attack rolls.
Thanks.


For all questions of this form, check X Stat To Y Bonus first.

It doesn't look like it - unless you count the Prescience Diviner variant in Unearthed Arcana, which is rather limited.

That said, there might be another way around your problem that we could help with. Please tell us the whole story - are you trying something like, say, "Reducing the multiple-ability-dependency of an artificer" or are you trying "Making a successful UMD user with a Charisma-penalty race" or something more obscure? This may be completely doable in another way, or circumvented altogether.

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Thanks for the quick reply.
I did check an X to Y thread on these forums but it appeared a bit broken and didn't find any info on my issue anyways. Thanks for the other link mate.
Yeah the issue is basically an Artificer (3) with a Cha 9. Int 17.
I was looking for a feat more worthy than Skill Focus or Magical Aptitude, though I may end up taking one of these feats too.
Maybe I could convice the DM for a custom feat if I could show enough precedents >.<

PS: Would you suggest SF or MA first? I do prefer MA cause it will make my spellcraft nearly foolproof, but I do sort of need the extra +1 of SF on UMD more, don't I?
Another reason you should use point buy for stats...  Sure INT 17 is very nice but when you could just have INT 16 and use the points saved to get CHA 12 that would certainly help solve your "problem."
 
Another reason you should use point buy for stats...  Sure INT 17 is very nice but when you could just have INT 16 and use the points saved to get CHA 12 that would certainly help solve your "problem."
 


You're not helping :p
j/k
But yeah, I was "forced" to take those stats. I wish I could transfer my Dex roll, but it's complicated.
At least the DM said he'd allow me to cheese it a bit with gloves(?) of UMD +x competence. I just have to make em and money and time is scarce. We don't even know what CL and spell requirement crafting a pair should have. Any ideas? (or what body slot would have affinity if any)
Generally, you need Craft Wondrous Item and as many skill ranks as you're trying to put in. Also, think about getting a Cloak of Charisma. And way to get around the time constraints: Dedicated Wright homunculus in a Bag of Holding.
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Generally, you need Craft Wondrous Item and as many skill ranks as you're trying to put in. Also, think about getting a Cloak of Charisma. And way to get around the time constraints: Dedicated Wright homunculus in a Bag of Holding.


Crafting inside a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole is not allowed by DM (and I agreed to that already) because it screws the delicate magiks (probably a holdover from older editions when you had to strip yourself from other magic items too so they wouldn't taint it). But I've not had much time constraints so far, it's 1000gp per day and I'm always short on the gp not the days >.<
Getting a Cloak of Charisma is what I'm trying to avoid, I can't even afford it now. And then better to get +Int item when I can.

What about Item Familiar? Elaborate please.

EDIT: Oh also where in the rules does it say you need "as many skill ranks as you're trying to put in"? I thought about winging it, like CL required equals competence bonus x2 or something.
Another reason you should use point buy for stats...  Sure INT 17 is very nice but when you could just have INT 16 and use the points saved to get CHA 12 that would certainly help solve your "problem."
 


You're not helping :p
j/k
But yeah, I was "forced" to take those stats. I wish I could transfer my Dex roll, but it's complicated.
At least the DM said he'd allow me to cheese it a bit with gloves(?) of UMD +x competence. I just have to make em and money and time is scarce. We don't even know what CL and spell requirement crafting a pair should have. Any ideas? (or what body slot would have affinity if any)


Sure I am.  Just not in a way that may do you any good ;)  I don't know how much lurking you may have done before you started posting (oh by the way welcome to the community) but I'm often very critical about stats.  Here you're just getting a screwed in a way by what I assume are random/rolled stats.  I can't count how often someone come looking for "help" but has stats that are so insane they really should have a +1 or +2 LA to make up for their rolled stats.

Although it is a bit "munchkiny" there are plenty of examples of items that aid skill checks.  While some of them do have spells associated with building the item there are also many that don't have any specific spell needs.  To create an item that boosts UMD I believe you should need ranks in the skill. 
Sure I am.  Just not in a way that may do you any good ;)


I'm stealing that to use in D&D sessions :p
Thanks for the welcome.
Having ranks in the skill is not a problem. I have max ranks obviously (6) and I could not afford even a +3 item (900gp) right now.
I just submitted a few UMD competence magic items for review by the DM, we'll see. I priced em 100xbonus^2 gp like RAW.
I also submitted an item that allows you to reroll UMD checks only when crafting, creator must be artificer, but unsure how to price that.
So if you were DM would you allow a feat that adds or substitutes Int for Cha for UMD rolls? Would you allow an item to do that instead? Maybe only for crafting UMD checks? Is there an item that adds skill focus or other feats btw?

PS: Does the infusion Skill Enhancement only affect a single roll or all rolls with a single skill for the duration (10min/lvl)? It's a 1st level infusion that doesn't appear in any other spell list except Artificer's. I suggested that as the spell component in creating some of the magic items.
I know that when it comes to the actual market value of an item having restrictions on it may lower the cost but when it comes to creating those items I'm not sure I'd give any bonuses.  An item that allows a character to reroll UMD but only when crafting done by an artificer may get a big price break on the open market  but when you're building it for your character I wouldn't give you a break when it comes to creation.  To put things another way if you have an item that is only useable by a LG arcane spellcaster with levels in Paladin you aren't going to get a lot if you try to sell it but if you try to make that item (namely for someone who doesn't get hit by any of those drawbacks) I'm NOT going to give you any price breaks.

I'd need to see specifics and context but I could see a feat that allows you to substitute INT modifier in place of CHA modifier for certain UMD applications.  I'll need to look up how Artificers use UMD to craft magic items to be more specific.  I'd probably tie such a feat to the Spellcraft skill and maybe even a Knowledge skill.

In your quest for a higher UMD modifier I assume you've already seen the synergies and also looked at the Magical Aptitude feat.
 
Another thought: if you're human, you could see about taking all 3 levels in the Human Paragon class (UA). It grants any 10 skills as class skills, allows you to boost any stat by 2, and (IIRC) increases non-specific casting for two of those levels, which works with artificer.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I'm pretty sure that artificer works with any spell progression that is neither class-specific, nor specified as arcane or divine. I'm afb right now, so I can't cite a source, but I seem to recall it being in a section of the ECS entitled "Artificers and prestige classes" (or something similar).
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
You quoted the wrong section.
I'll have to find & post it after I get home tonight, if no one beats me to it. I know I've seen it in either ECS or Magic of Eberron.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
...  One of the reasons, at high levels, anyways, that Warlocks are superior. Then again, high-level Warlocks are superior to just about everything, so that's not saying much.


That doesn't seem to be a very popular opinion with anyone who does character optimization.  Perhaps that statement needs to be revised.

Although it may not be PrC friendly I seem to recall that Artificier is still a decent class to take all the way out to 20th-level.
 
Eureka! Magic of Eberron, page 53: a sidebar entitled Artificers and Prestige Classes.
...Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the artificer's level to determine his effective caster level... Classes that advance only arcane or divine spellcasting classes, specifically, would not benefit an artificer... Likewise, a prestige class with a prerequisite to cast a specific spell would be unavailable to an artificer.

Since Human Paragon advances spellcasting as "+1 level of existing class", it works with an artificer.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I tend to think the Artificer's infusions tend to be better then a Warlock's abilities, AND they get all the Item Creation feats for next to nothing, while the Warlock has to blow general feats on them.

that said, automatically having all the pre-reqs to create a given object IS nice...but the Artificer generally has those, too, and the Item Creation feats to make use of them.

A Generic UMD device should be priced exactly as you have done so, and there are some artificer only items in the MIC that would probably help you, too. Note that many DM's do consider +Competence level items to be close to the height of cheese, since they basically devalue Skill Ranks entirely.


So, yeah, for 800 gp, you should be able to make a +4 Comp device, and upgrade it very cheaply and easily. Start with +1 for 50 gp if you have to, and just upgrade as you get the time and money. Chart out the steps from one bonus to the next (=1 =50, +2 = 200 (+150), +3 = 450 (+250) etc.    The key is to get started, then minor amounts getting added on just take time, not much money. If you have a Homonculous Wright, you can leave it in your room or a safe location to do the work.

==Aelryinth  
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
I'd need to see specifics and context but I could see a feat that allows you to substitute INT modifier in place of CHA modifier for certain UMD applications.  I'll need to look up how Artificers use UMD to craft magic items to be more specific.  I'd probably tie such a feat to the Spellcraft skill and maybe even a Knowledge skill.

In your quest for a higher UMD modifier I assume you've already seen the synergies and also looked at the Magical Aptitude feat.
 


Specific feat was: use Int instead of Cha for UMD. Cha penalties still apply.
Do you mean you'd add skill requirements to the feat? How much?
Yeah, the synergies for UMD are Spellcraft(5) and Decipher Script(5) that give +2 each, but only to scrolls. And Decipher Scripts isn't a class skill for Artificers for some strange reason (I've seen arguments online about it)
Why does Spellcraft give +2 only to scrolls anyway? Makes no sense, does it?

Another thought: if you're human, you could see about taking all 3 levels in the Human Paragon class (UA). It grants any 10 skills as class skills, allows you to boost any stat by 2, and (IIRC) increases non-specific casting for two of those levels, which works with artificer.


I've already said I'm a Warforged and low level at that. Also no Paragons allowed I think. :p

Here's what you really need: Eternal Wands of GotA and Wieldskill. Use them before crafting, along with standard buffs like Eagle's Splendor.


What is GotA?
I'm pretty sure standard buffs like Eagle's Splendor don't work on crafting cause they don't last 8 hours.


A Generic UMD device should be priced exactly as you have done so, and there are some artificer only items in the MIC that would probably help you, too. Note that many DM's do consider +Competence level items to be close to the height of cheese, since they basically devalue Skill Ranks entirely.


So, yeah, for 800 gp, you should be able to make a +4 Comp device, and upgrade it very cheaply and easily. Start with +1 for 50 gp if you have to, and just upgrade as you get the time and money. Chart out the steps from one bonus to the next (=1 =50, +2 = 200 (+150), +3 = 450 (+250) etc.    The key is to get started, then minor amounts getting added on just take time, not much money. If you have a Homonculous Wright, you can leave it in your room or a safe location to do the work.

==Aelryinth  



What items in the MIC? Only thing I found there was those spectacles(?) that gives +5 spellcraft and +5 UMD on scrolls.

I don't really need a Homonculous, I can't afford it. I can afford 2 days to make the 800gp item. I can just make em during the night when the meatbags are asleep. Remember, I'm poor.
So would you allow this item?
I would allow the item, but as a DM I'd probably cap the bonus. Pathfinder has an unspoken rule of +5 limits on misc bonuses to skills, except for a very few exceptions that are mostly armor bonuses (Greater Shadow Armor, boots of jumping  etc).

I could probably stretch it to +10, but that is being exceedingly generous.

==Aelryinth   
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
+5 cap sounds fine pre-epic (lol that was an inside joke, we barely ever get into double digits, I don't think even lvl 9 is reachable in recent campaigns or this one).
So what other items in MIC did you mean?
And what is a wand of GotA?

I took skill focus (UMD) for 3rd lvl so and I still have only 45% chance to activate wands (DC 20) and stuff. Not that I have any :p
I got +2 from spellcraft and +2 from Artisan Bonus for scrolls, but those have higher DCs (and no Artisan Bonus for Wands till lvl 6). Not to mention my Adamantine (RP reasons) Warforged has 35% ASFailure...
Couple that with no money still and I "had" to use Bane Weapon cheese to win last battle (everyone else went to negatives, I was at 1 hp left at one point).
At least I can use Skill Enhancement Infusion combined with our Bard's song of competence if we ever really need to UMD something important. So far we only used that combo to disable a trap >.<
Taking things in another direction, if you were willing to make a psionic artificer, you could take the Skill Finesse feat from Hyperconscious - this would allow you to swap UMD over to being Int-based instead of Cha-based.  (This assumes you're willing to play a psionic artificer, that your DM is willing to take feats from Hyperconscious, and that you've got a feat to spare.)
Taking things in another direction, if you were willing to make a psionic artificer, you could take the Skill Finesse feat from Hyperconscious - this would allow you to swap UMD over to being Int-based instead of Cha-based.  (This assumes you're willing to play a psionic artificer, that your DM is willing to take feats from Hyperconscious, and that you've got a feat to spare.)


No psionics allowed this time, cause of last time :p
Never heard of Skill Finesse or Hyperconscious though, got any more info?
Hmm I googled them, it seems they do exactly what I asked my custom feat to do (assuming Int is the key ability for Artificers and not Charisma, isn't it?!). Too bad psionics are banned

No psionics allowed this time, cause of last time :p



This would normally warrant questions along the lines of "Did spell-based magic get banned as well?" and "What did psionics do that couldn't already be done more effectively by spells?"  However, such questions would be beyond the scope of your original query.


Never heard of Skill Finesse or Hyperconscious though, got any more info?
Hmm I googled them, it seems they do exactly what I asked my custom feat to do (assuming Int is the key ability for Artificers and not Charisma, isn't it?!).



Yes and no.  You pick one skill, and that skill now uses your primary manifesting stat instead of whatever stat it used before.  So, if you were a psychic warrior (wisdom-based manifesting) and picked Skill Finesse (Climb), you'd be using wisdom for your climb checks instead of strength.  Like that.  (Complete substitution - in the aforementioned example, if you tanked your strength score for some reason, that would have no bearing on your climb checks.)

Too bad psionics are banned


Indeed.

I'm not sure, I wasn't part of the previous campaign. The new DM probably found it too strong, or didn't fit in the theme for the new campaign. Or he just didn't want to bother with it. I know I didn't include it once long ago cause I hadn't yet read any books on it. I still haven't (I've only glanced at the SRD a bit) >.<

That's what the original custom feat I proposed was supposed to do. Use Int instead of Cha for UMD. I'm still unsure though if Cha or Int is the key ability for Artificers, well assuming the feat was to work on non-manifesters.

Though it does make my case for the custom feat less cheesy. I mean the fact that a similar feat already exists for psionics. Doesn't it?

EDIT: I wonder why it isn't mentioned in www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4369.0
Hyperconscious is a 3rd party publisher; many DM's won't allow those.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I'm not sure, I wasn't part of the previous campaign. The new DM probably found it too strong, or didn't fit in the theme for the new campaign. Or he just didn't want to bother with it. I know I didn't include it once long ago cause I hadn't yet read any books on it. I still haven't (I've only glanced at the SRD a bit) >.<

That's what the original custom feat I proposed was supposed to do. Use Int instead of Cha for UMD. I'm still unsure though if Cha or Int is the key ability for Artificers, well assuming the feat was to work on non-manifesters.


Artificer "spellcasting" is based off of Int; the only thing that goes off of Cha for them is their UMD rolls.  As such, Cha is a relatively unimportant stat for the artificer, one that you don't want to dump entirely but don't really need to be maxed.  (This point is repeatedly made in any artificer handbooks I've seen.)

Though it does make my case for the custom feat less cheesy. I mean the fact that a similar feat already exists for psionics. Doesn't it?


IMO, given that psionics have been banned, no, it wouldn't necessarily be cheesy at all.  I could see someone making the arguement that this feat should be unique to psionics, but, given that psionics don't exist in this campaign, I don't see a problem with making a non-psionic version.  There's already feats that let you sub Int for pick locks, and other comparable effects.  Call it "Logical Item Use" or something.

(That being said, you may have difficulty running a converted psionic feat past a DM who has already deemed psionics to be overpowered - hence, I would warn you that bringing up Skill Finesse may not help your arguement, at least in the eyes of that particular DM.)

EDIT: I wonder why it isn't mentioned in www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4369.0


Draco1119 beat me to the punch.  Bruce Cordell wrote Hyperconscious; given that he also wrote the Expanded Psionics Handbook, many people who play with psionics view this book as perfectly kosher.  But it is indeed a 3rd party resource.
Heh I named it *Analytical Enchanting, but DM didn't allow it >.<
Had to take Skill Focus UMD.
I'll have to rely on Skill Enhancement infusion (+x circumstance) and the bard song (competence) till I make my first gloves +UMD (competence, max +5). I'll probably get a cloak of charisma +1 when I can to get my 9 to a 10 after gloves +4 upgrade. The +5 gloves upgrade will cost barely less than the cloak, but that bonus will marginally affect many other skills and stuff.



PS: *I was inspired from Eberron CS Artificer flavor text:

Races: Humans excel as artifi cers, having no natural
attachment to the aesthetics of magic as elves do, and
no knack for a particular expression of magic as gnomes
have. Their analytical minds make them well suited to the
artifi cer’s task of reducing magic to its component pieces
and reassembling it in a new form.
Despite their Charisma penalty, warforged also make
fi ne artifi cers, having a particular affi nity for the creation
of other constructs. Dwarves and gnomes, with their skill
in the crafting of mundane items, show equal skill in the
magical craft of the artifi cer. Halfl ings, elves, half-elves,
half-orcs, kalashtar, shifters, and changelings do not have
strong traditions in this class and often choose different
magical pathways.
Does Tools of War (x2 craft xp) only apply to your craft reserve, not when you use your normal XP? That would suck and make Retain Essence a must
I wanted to take Weapon Familiar... btw is its bonus untyped or competence or something? Seems untyped and I'd really like another +3 to UMD ^.^
Does Tools of War (x2 craft xp) only apply to your craft reserve, not when you use your normal XP? That would suck and make Retain Essence a must
I wanted to take Weapon Familiar... btw is its bonus untyped or competence or something? Seems untyped and I'd really like another +3 to UMD ^.^

For future reference, it tends to be easier to respond when you tell us what book to find them in (Races of Eberron, in this case).  

Tools of War only applies when you use your craft reserve.  The wording is a bit shoddy, but it looks to me as if, by RAW, it doesn't apply to only the craft reserve points used.  For the Weapon Familiar, it's untyped, so it stacks with every other kind of bonus.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Sorry about not saying book names. I assumed you guys would know :p

Your wording is a bit shoddy too (Tongue Out), do you mean to say that you spend 1 xp from your craft reserve and 99 xp from your normal xp and it all gets doubled to 200 xp for a 5k gold item? I don't think that's RAI (only craft reserve xp is meant to be doubled), but personally I would just rule that all xp was doubled anyway (is that ruling OK? doesn't seem like it will have very bad repercussions, Retain Essence makes it far easier to use Tools of War). Otherwise you make Retain Essence the only way to play and Weapon Familiar the poor underdog for lvl 5.
Speaking of which, I got a few more vague stuff to rule on as shown on this page:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Weapon Familiar just seems like a botched-up job.

Thanks for the advice btw.
Your wording is a bit shoddy too (), do you mean to say that you spend 1 xp from your craft reserve and 99 xp from your normal xp and it all gets doubled to 200 xp for a 5k gold item? I don't think that's RAI (only craft reserve xp is meant to be doubled), but personally I would just rule that all xp was doubled anyway (is that ruling OK? doesn't seem like it will have very bad repercussions, Retain Essence makes it far easier to use Tools of War).

I think you're right about RAI, but the way I read the ability, if you use any XP from your craft reserve then all of the XP usage gets doubled.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
That's not a too unbalancing interpratation considering I felt Tools of War should double all xp you spend, otherwise it forces you to take Retain Essence too much and Weapon Familiar never sees the light of day.
So how did you feel about the questions on Weapon Familiar on that other thread I linked mate?
There is a way to use Inteligence to use UMD, a Wizard with high inteligence could Dominate Mind a high charisma victim who has UMD and make him use the items Laughing
Was my other post on the wrong forum or something cause it was ignored >.<
Was my other post on the wrong forum or something cause it was ignored >.<

What post?

Ok, I looked in your profile and found you necroposted to an ancient thread in the Eberron section of the boards.  I could probably find that section but it was never anything I looked at before and now days it is probably more 4e stuff if the settings even get any traffic.  To put it another way you may have asked a 3.5 question in a dead forum that isn't even connected to the previous editions section.

I'd tell you that the setting specific boards should be more about "fluff" then actual game mechanics but with the last big reoganization who knows what may have been put where.
 
Thanks, I figured it was something like that. I linked to that post in this thread in post #33 btw :p
I wasn't expecting anyone to know about a vague post or look in my profile to find it.
Should I repost my questions from it here or in another thread in this forum?

EDIT: I went ahead and made a new thread.