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Okay so I'm in a pickle for the next game I'm playing the people Im playing with decided to play controllers and strikers so I need to come up with a hybrid defender \ healer best I came up with is tiefling charisma paladin \ warlord but need some optimizing any help would be much appreciated
What level are you starting at?
What level do you expect to reach?
Are your strikers melee, ranged, or a mix?
Will the strikers have good basic attacks?
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
Starting at level 11 and should be going to level 21 I get improved defenses and weapon expertise as free feats also thanks for the links I'll check them out
Also the team is a necromancer wizard a monk/assassin and another striker and all characters have a melee basic
and all characters have a melee basic



But not all characters have a MBA that is worth the leader granting rather than just attacking themselves.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
True but as a household everyone can use there highest stat for there melee basic and the assasin is an executioner so his melee basic will be good
*Houserule Damn phone
I would suggest a Hybrid Cavalier|Bard. The Cavalier as a full defender it is probably the weakest, but loses almost nothing as a Hybrid.
I have an example built for another game
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Sered, level 11
Deva, Paladin (Cavalier)/Bard, Angelic Avenger
Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Hybrid Paladin (Cavalier) Option: Hybrid Cavalier Fortitude
Hybrid Bard Option: Hybrid Bard Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Astral Vibrance Option: Radiant
Proficiency: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Theme: Purple Dragon
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 17, DEX 12, INT 9, WIS 13, CHA 23
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 18
 
 
AC: 30 Fort: 23 Ref: 23 Will: 25
HP: 80 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 23
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Endurance +9, Religion +11, Streetwise +16
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +5, Athletics +2, Dungeoneering +7, Heal +7, History +7, Insight +9, Intimidate +12, Nature +7, Perception +7, Stealth +3, Thievery +3
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Purple Dragon Utility: Focused Discipline
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura
Paladin Attack: Righteous Radiance
Bard Utility: Skald's Aura
Paladin Attack: Holy Smite
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Bard Attack 1: Bolstering Speech
Paladin Attack 1: Virtuous Strike
Bard Attack 1: Lesser Dimensional Step
Paladin Attack 1: Glorious Charge
Streetwise Utility 2: Nose for Trouble
Paladin Attack 3: Mocking Smite
Bard Attack 5: Haunting Tune
Bard Utility 6: Allegro
Bard Attack 9: Exposure of Weakness
Purple Dragon Utility 10: Unified Resilience
Angelic Avenger Attack 11: Astral Wave
 
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Skald Training
Level 4: Devout Protector Expertise
Level 6: Radiant Recovery
Level 8: Power of the Sun
Level 10: Improved Defenses
Level 11: Initiate of the Faith
 
ITEMS
Summoned Gith Plate Armor +3 x1
Plate Armor
Adventurer's Kit
Heavy Shield x1
Jagged Bastard sword +3 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
Periapt of Cascading Health +2 x1
Symbol of Scorned Fate +1 x1
Siberys Shard of Radiance (heroic tier)
Gloves of Recovery x1
Acrobat Boots x1
Belt of Vigor (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======

The highlights:


  • Can ditch Str

  • Radiant MBA, that makes the target VULNERABLE 5 radiant, the whole character revolves around it, every hit:


    • Gives you 3 THP

    • Gives an ally 6 THP


  • Every adjacent enemy is dealt 12 radiant damage, if it tries to shift, or attack one of your allies

  • All bard dailies, and every encounter power improves on this MBA

  • Level 3 and 7 encounter powers deal radiant as free actions, add it to the vulnerability...

  • Every bloodied enemy in 5 squares are dealt Cha radiant

  • The Theme power gives +1 power bonus on MBAs


So you have an MBA, that is 20 vs AC. First round you deal 2d10+12 radiant, turn invisible, deal another 6 radiant, and teleport one ally adjacent. If the enemy tries to shift or attack an ally, it takes 17 radiant damage. Next round you attack it again, dealing 1d10+17 radiant because of the vulnerability, and use Holy Smite, dealing another 15 radiant, and dazing it.


Problems:



  • The 11th level encounter power relies on Str, so try Reserve Maneuver


Possible improvements:



  • With the feats Lashing Flail and Flail Expertise, and using an Alhulak, you can prone at will, this includes opportunity attacks

  • Feat Gambler's Word can give you an extra Healing Word per encounter, really useful with a Jagged Weapon

  • Warlock Multiclass and Starfire Womb can give you a save after every hit, in this case go with Morninglord PP, and retrain Power of the Sun on level 16

  • Githyanki Silver Weapon and Psychic Lock can improve defending

Another option is to go Paladin|Cleric/Fighter Tactical Warpriest.  That build is full of Immediates that are very punishing as well as high defenses, good marking capabilities and from the cleric side you can pick up quite a bit of quality healing.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.



Are Runepriest and Valorous Bards on the same mental Tier for you?  In my mind one is relegated to the dusty back-shelf and one is displayed prominently in the store's window. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I'd say stick with the tried and true dwarven chalidin, hospitaller. You can take a bunch of feats to add to your lay on hands without taking away from your defending capabilities. 
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.



Are Runepriest and Valorous Bards on the same mental Tier for you?  In my mind one is relegated to the dusty back-shelf and one is displayed prominently in the store's window. 



LOLd at this. So true. V-bards are also infintely more interesting.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'd say stick with the tried and true dwarven chalidin, hospitaller. You can take a bunch of feats to add to your lay on hands without taking away from your defending capabilities. 



Seeing as the healing chaladin/hospitaler is cha-wis, the best race would be kalashtar. Their racial to give +4 will to the party is pretty sweet too, which you can also turn into an encounter heal with a feat (clarity of spirit). Quori Backlash is nice feat too. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.



Are Runepriest and Valorous Bards on the same mental Tier for you?  In my mind one is relegated to the dusty back-shelf and one is displayed prominently in the store's window. 

One has a more striker bent, the other has a more leader/nova bent. Depending on what you enjoy more, they are both reasonably good classes. It's not like I'm talking about a Sentinel.
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.



Are Runepriest and Valorous Bards on the same mental Tier for you?  In my mind one is relegated to the dusty back-shelf and one is displayed prominently in the store's window. 

One has a more striker bent, the other has a more leader/nova bent. Depending on what you enjoy more, they are both reasonably good classes. It's not like I'm talking about a Sentinel.



Fair enough.  I may be a little biased myself because I've never seen an effective Runepriest.  Ever.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
There is this myth about Runepriests having a striker bent. Sure, you can grab a PP to give you an IR MBA. But a Valorbard can easily match a runepriest in damage, and kill it in debuffing, buffing, enabling, and some control.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
4 man party without a Defender is rough. 4 man party without a Leader is rougher. Considering Necromancer is the effective weakest possible wizard (seriously, I'd take most non-controllers-built-as-controllers over someone picking Necromancy powers), Monk|Executioner is really sub-par (Exe seems entirely meaningless if you're getting Melee Training for free), and unlisted Striker is unknown, I would seriously consider asking one of them to switch over to either a Defender|X Hybrid (like Swordmage|Warlock) or Leader|X Hybrid (Ranger|Cleric being the most OP currently). It's really not fair to expect you to not only cover two roles, but also to carry them and compensate for their bad choices.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.



Are Runepriest and Valorous Bards on the same mental Tier for you?  In my mind one is relegated to the dusty back-shelf and one is displayed prominently in the store's window. 

One has a more striker bent, the other has a more leader/nova bent. Depending on what you enjoy more, they are both reasonably good classes. It's not like I'm talking about a Sentinel.



Fair enough.  I may be a little biased myself because I've never seen an effective Runepriest.  Ever.



Your runepriests weren't spamming Word of Vulnerability properly, then. You manage to get that off while doing your normal job with grants and you pretty much stomp encounters flat.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Um, the compendium says "Word of Vulnerability" is a l17 bard encounter power.  What are you refering to?

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Um, the compendium says "Word of Vulnerability" is a l17 bard encounter power.  What are you refering to?



Word of Diminishment. I pretty much just conflated its effect with the naming scheme.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Yeah Warchanter +Con to hit/damage alone kills diminishment
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Yeah Warchanter +Con to hit/damage alone kills diminishment



Who cares? Matyr was talking about never having seen an effective Runepriest. I'm explaining an easy way to being a Runepriest and making a million bucks. That Bards have a PP that is just about as degenerate as Battle Captain is for Warlords doesn't factor here.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
MW is better than that.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Yeah Warchanter +Con to hit/damage alone kills diminishment



Who cares? Matyr was talking about never having seen an effective Runepriest. I'm explaining an easy way to being a Runepriest and making a million bucks. That Bards have a PP that is just about as degenerate as Battle Captain is for Warlords doesn't factor here.



PP aside, Unless there is a way to make Word of Dimishment give a larger vulnerability its just going to be flat terrible when compared to something like a staggering note as an attack, especially at low levels.

Vuln 2 is nice, and vulnerability in general is great but enabling extra attacks for all your big-axe-wielding-meatheads is gonna beat it 10 times  out of 9.  The only time it doesn't is cases where the vulnerability is huge (2/4/6 isn't cutting it at all) or the enabling is hard to come by (ha!).

So yes, I stand by my assertion that Runepriest < Valorous Bard by such a degree that they aren't on the same tier of play.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Vulnerability is easily abused, but thats really not until paragon, and other classes do it better.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
MW is better than that.



Pshyeah right. Position the entire party so they can all focus fire a target while gaining MW and we'll talk. Spoilers: never happening, no way, no how.

---

@Matyr: This is wrong. Average per-hit damage of an absolutely pimped out non-Genasi Striker = 60ish per hit. This means Word of Diminishment needs to apply ten times to be comparable to granting a single attack. This isn't too hard if your Striker is in position - Twin Strike + Twin Strike is an easy baseline of four hits. Add a minor action attack, that's five. A Barbarian doing Storm of Blades xx Storm of Blades does six attacks. Add a light tap from a controller, that's one extra hit. One more from a defender, that's two. One more from your fifth man, minimum, and that's three - so eight or so taps just from a reasonable bursty round with a fifth man who doesn't strike and a defender and controller who don't attack with minors. Not too shabby...but there's more to it. Word of Diminishment has the nice extra that it combos outstandingly well with the most powerful status effect in the game, Dominate. If you dominate a target and make him run, suddenly the damage he's taking nearly doubles (assuming the fifth man has a decent MBA, at least, that's 40 damage - comparable with that bursty sequence above). This kind of scaling is very handy when you have to peace a target out in a hurry. Staggering Note is a nice power, and it still doesn't let your party pump out more damage than an MBA just for doing what they want to do.

And of course, this is just using an at-will. It's not as though Runepriests get some nice enabling options as they level, including a Hail of Steel with a packaged bonus to damage rolls at the same level the Warlord gets his vanilla HoS. No sir, not at all. That's just lunacy, it's not like the Runepriest has a complete package of things to do in a fight, plus easily the best healing in the game via protective scroll. No chance at all.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Vulnerability is easily abused, but thats really not until paragon, and other classes do it better.



You mean 'the cleric does it better'. Nobody else does.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Are you kidding me? There are so many other ways to impart vulnerability. This has become you just ranting to defend a subpar class. Also, protective scroll is NOT the best healing in the game. Again you play a different game from the rest of us. Which is cool, but don't act like your advice is anywhere near applicable.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
MW is better than that.



Pshyeah right. Position the entire party so they can all focus fire a target while gaining MW and we'll talk. Spoilers: never happening, no way, no how.

---

@Matyr: This is wrong. Average per-hit damage of an absolutely pimped out non-Genasi Striker = 60ish per hit. This means Word of Diminishment needs to apply ten times to be comparable to granting a single attack. This isn't too hard if your Striker is in position - Twin Strike + Twin Strike is an easy baseline of four hits. Add a minor action attack, that's five. A Barbarian doing Storm of Blades xx Storm of Blades does six attacks. Add a light tap from a controller, that's one extra hit. One more from a defender, that's two. One more from your fifth man, minimum, and that's three - so eight or so taps just from a reasonable bursty round with a fifth man who doesn't strike and a defender and controller who don't attack with minors. Not too shabby...but there's more to it. Word of Diminishment has the nice extra that it combos outstandingly well with the most powerful status effect in the game, Dominate. If you dominate a target and make him run, suddenly the damage he's taking nearly doubles (assuming the fifth man has a decent MBA, at least, that's 40 damage - comparable with that bursty sequence above). This kind of scaling is very handy when you have to peace a target out in a hurry. Staggering Note is a nice power, and it still doesn't let your party pump out more damage than an MBA just for doing what they want to do.

And of course, this is just using an at-will. It's not as though Runepriests get some nice enabling options as they level, including a Hail of Steel with a packaged bonus to damage rolls at the same level the Warlord gets his vanilla HoS. No sir, not at all. That's just lunacy, it's not like the Runepriest has a complete package of things to do in a fight, plus easily the best healing in the game via protective scroll. No chance at all.



I have no idea what levels you are trying to talk about here.  But if you are saying "if you dominate the guy you can get lots of vulnerabilty" then yes congratulations.  But I can counter that with mostly everything your MBA character can do on an MBA.  Hell, lets play along and say your MBA guy is a paladin with Virtuous Strike and Power of the Sun.  Now you are doing everything your RP does and more.  Since I think you are picking a level somewhere in paragon thats vuln 4 vs vuln 5 plus the MBA, plus everything the note does already for positioning, plus you aren't stuck playing a crappy RP the rest of the time.

Edit: Looked up protective scroll.  Really nice power, but the most powerful in the game?  I would say that is a top tier spell, its very good.  It doesn't belong as the most powerful healing spell in the game.  Not be a long shot. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I'd argue your group needs a pure leader more than it needs a hybrid defender. Straight up Runepriest or Valor Bard would be fine I think. Just pick something that'll cover a missing stat, and you should be fine.



Are Runepriest and Valorous Bards on the same mental Tier for you?  In my mind one is relegated to the dusty back-shelf and one is displayed prominently in the store's window. 



LOLd at this. So true. V-bards are also infintely more interesting.




Exactly what I feel like every time I see comments like this.  I have an L5 Dragonborn V-Bard in a campaign, and I constantly feel like I can't figure out his proper role.  Aside from a usually very effective NOVA round with Shout of Triumph and Dragon Breath (the DM gave me a bonus 1d6 to Dragon Breath), I feel like I have all the wrong powers and feats.  But it may just be the result of the low-magic world and source restrictions (only PHB 1-3, Power books, and Essentials allowed).


Long rant about dominate adding great things for vulnerability



Sorry this is kind of a double post, but I needed to do a small amount of research to be certain I wasn't talking out of my butt.

You know what is better in your dominate scenario than granting attacks AND applying vulnerability?

Being the guy who does the dominate.  Level 5 Bard says "hi".

What does the level 30 Runepriest say to the level 5 bard about dominating? 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
MW is better than that.



Pshyeah right. Position the entire party so they can all focus fire a target while gaining MW and we'll talk. Spoilers: never happening, no way, no how.

---

@Matyr: This is wrong. Average per-hit damage of an absolutely pimped out non-Genasi Striker = 60ish per hit. This means Word of Diminishment needs to apply ten times to be comparable to granting a single attack. This isn't too hard if your Striker is in position - Twin Strike + Twin Strike is an easy baseline of four hits. Add a minor action attack, that's five. A Barbarian doing Storm of Blades xx Storm of Blades does six attacks. Add a light tap from a controller, that's one extra hit. One more from a defender, that's two. One more from your fifth man, minimum, and that's three - so eight or so taps just from a reasonable bursty round with a fifth man who doesn't strike and a defender and controller who don't attack with minors. Not too shabby...but there's more to it. Word of Diminishment has the nice extra that it combos outstandingly well with the most powerful status effect in the game, Dominate. If you dominate a target and make him run, suddenly the damage he's taking nearly doubles (assuming the fifth man has a decent MBA, at least, that's 40 damage - comparable with that bursty sequence above). This kind of scaling is very handy when you have to peace a target out in a hurry. Staggering Note is a nice power, and it still doesn't let your party pump out more damage than an MBA just for doing what they want to do.

And of course, this is just using an at-will. It's not as though Runepriests get some nice enabling options as they level, including a Hail of Steel with a packaged bonus to damage rolls at the same level the Warlord gets his vanilla HoS. No sir, not at all. That's just lunacy, it's not like the Runepriest has a complete package of things to do in a fight, plus easily the best healing in the game via protective scroll. No chance at all.



I have no idea what levels you are trying to talk about here.  But if you are saying "if you dominate the guy you can get lots of vulnerabilty" then yes congratulations.  But I can counter that with mostly everything your MBA character can do on an MBA.  Hell, lets play along and say your MBA guy is a paladin with Virtuous Strike and Power of the Sun.  Now you are doing everything your RP does and more.  Since I think you are picking a level somewhere in paragon thats vuln 4 vs vuln 5 plus the MBA, plus everything the note does already for positioning, plus you aren't stuck playing a crappy RP the rest of the time.

Edit: Looked up protective scroll.  Really nice power, but the most powerful in the game?  I would say that is a top tier spell, its very good.  It doesn't belong as the most powerful healing spell in the game.  Not be a long shot. 



It doesn't fade after a short rest. That's what makes it the most powerful healing in the game - it can allow you to heal exactlyh as much as you need for a fight, every fight, and get a buff on top. You can't lose a fight so long as you have Protective Scroll, unless you fully run out of surges.

As for your second post: 'Hi, I'm a runepriest. Starting from level 19, I can make save ends dominates last two turns minimum. You know what's better than your one dominate? Two dominates. Or two stuns. Or two of any save ends effect that is normally not worth a dime because it'll end too fast.'

The fact that you don't know that the Runepriest has shenanigans of his own really says something about why you shouldn't say their ineffectual. They're not Warlords, but considering their support is literally two dragon articles and the book that introduced them, they manage to perform exceedingly well.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).

Pshyeah right. Position the entire party so they can all focus fire a target while gaining MW and we'll talk. Spoilers: never happening, no way, no how.


Guess you've just never seen a good Artificer, or more specifically, a good party behaving properly for the Artificer.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

Pshyeah right. Position the entire party so they can all focus fire a target while gaining MW and we'll talk. Spoilers: never happening, no way, no how.


Guess you've just never seen a good Artificer, or more specifically, a good party behaving properly for the Artificer.



I was going to say something similar. When can the entire party gain the (G)MW bonuses? The first round of every combat in which the artificer is taking part? The quality artificer puts his initiative on crack, then buffs the entire party then slick-concoctions them into position to nova.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Not convinced about that. Maybe because I'm used to seeing Battlefront Shift to get to position, particularly in Epic. Also, the fact that I've never seen an artificer keep pace with Striker inits, even Battlewise boosted ones taking lots of +init gear. There's always a Striker who's going first and has a monster to peace out because it can take actions.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Not convinced about that. Maybe because I'm used to seeing Battlefront Shift to get to position, particularly in Epic. Also, the fact that I've never seen an artificer keep pace with Striker inits, even Battlewise boosted ones taking lots of +init gear. There's always a Striker who's going first and has a monster to peace out because it can take actions.



As long as the Artificer beats all the monsters, it doesn't matter if any the other PCs beat the Artificer, they can delay, get the GMW bonus and then cream the monster before it gets a go with even more ease.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
That is, unfortunately, a pretty big 'if'. Not that GMW isn't great, but monsters tend to get a go in many cases. Let's say a good...30% or so?
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I played a very effective Runepriest from 1 to 26; three things made him effective:
1.  The party had two Twin Strike Rangers, so the vulnerability granted by Word of Diminishment was effectively doubled
2.  Hybrid Warlord, when it made more sense to use Commander's Strike (or Death from Two sides, etc.), you can do that.
3.  Captain of Fortune PP encounter power is probably the best nova enabler out there. 

A Hybrid Runepriest can make an excellent melee leader.  Rune of Mending is nice healing and damage buffing, and this class has some of the best leader utilities in the game.  At level 2 there is the huge swing of Shield of Sacrifice (2 heals, one surgeless, huge +5 AC boost for up to three PC's), at level 10 Protective Scroll (healing plus +5 defense boost) and Rune of Astral Winds (endless positioning), and at level 22 Rune of Hero's Resolve (usually doubles an allies hit points and grants a standard action)

I've never sat down and made the build, but a hybrid runepriest fighter or runepriest paladin could fit the bill. 
Strength based Clerics (take batlle Clerics Lore to fix Armor Issues)  and Warlords Hybrid (Many of their power dont require an attack roll from you so stats are irrelevant) very well. Both of these classes have powers that mark targets which provides synergy for a Defender hybrid. Pay close attention to how the marking mechanic works when contructing the build (for example the fighter can only mark with fighter powers.. so the leader half would be designed around minor and immediate actions)


The collective thread stickied at the top of the forumn contains a hybrid Paladin/Warlord if you are looking for ideas. I also have a hybrid swordmage/warlord in my signature (Im still perfecting it but it has been amazingly effective thus far in 2 level 14 LFR test runs). There might be a battlemind/leader build floating around somewhere but I am not certain.