How exactly does Stealth and making enemies flat-footed work?

I have a Jedi PC who uses the Cloak power and wants to make enemies flat-footed.

I wasn't (and still am not) too sure on when enemies are flat-footed, so I handled it like this:

The enemy and the PC were in a sparring ring in the Jedi Temple. They were both aware of one another. On the PC's turn, he uses the cloak power. I tell him to make a Stealth check, if you suceed, the target is flat-footed. He does succced, and he makes an attack against the flat-footed enemy.

Did I handle that correctly? Also, what is the point of the Ghost Assailant talent in GaW? 
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I have a Jedi PC who uses the Cloak power and wants to make enemies flat-footed.

I wasn't (and still am not) too sure on when enemies are flat-footed, so I handled it like this:

The enemy and the PC were in a sparring ring in the Jedi Temple. They were both aware of one another. On the PC's turn, he uses the cloak power. I tell him to make a Stealth check, if you suceed, the target is flat-footed. He does succced, and he makes an attack against the flat-footed enemy.

Did I handle that correctly? Also, what is the point of the Ghost Assailant talent in GaW? 

No, this isn’t correct. If enemies are aware of each other, using the Cloak force power will not cause the other one to become flat-footed.

To use Stealth to make an opponent flat-footed, you need to initiate a surprise round. To do this, you need to ambush your opponent. Before battle begins, use Stealth opposed by the opponent’s Perception check. If they don’t notice you but you notice them, then a surprise round begins and you can take 1 action. The unaware opponent is flat-footed until his first regular turn in the initiative order.

Ghost Assailant means that if you have total cover or total concealment (which Cloak grants) from your target, you can make a Stealth check as a swift action, opposed by the target’s Perception check. If you succeed, the target is considered flat-footed against you until the end of your turn.

To maximize this combo, you should get the Improved Cloak Force Technique. That means that you can maintain Cloak as a move action, which means you can maintain Cloak, use Ghost Assailant, and then use your standard action to attack your opponent while he’s flat-footed.


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The way Stealth is used to "make an enemy flat-footed" is by letting you get in without being detected and thus getting off a surprise round.  With a Surprise round everyone is flat-footed until they act.  Once that is done Stealth doesn't seem to have any way to make a character flat-footed.

When it comes to denying the DEX bonus because a target is "unaware of an attack" you run into issues using Stealth.  Being hidden is basically the same as having total concealment but nothing in that section mentions denying DEX to a target if you have total concealment with regards to them.  It would seem that once you put someone "on their guard" you're going to need to do other things to deny them their DEX bonus to REF.

To me, you should need to be hidden at least one full round (and probably even two or more) before you can reset awareness to "none."  I'll also say that if you come in hidden you can use the Snipe part of Stealth to remain hidden but if you are actually located I say it takes some time to become "lost" by your opponents again.
 
It may not be the same system, but in D&D (3.5, because that's what I'm best with)  an invisible attacker denies the target their dex bonus, but does not make them flatfooted. 

I'll agree with the above that suddenly cloaking would not treat the opponent as flat-footed.  He is aware there is an attack, he just may not know where, hence no dex bonus but not blatfooted.

While flat-footed, and denied their dex has very similar effects in terms of ability to hit, things like that.  Some abilities require flat-footed while others only require them to be denied their dex bonus.  I would be careful to make sure that the opponent is in the correct state when it comes to this. 

Flat-Footed > Denied Dex > Normal.  This can help for what I mentioned above.  Someone who is flat-footed almost always counts as being denied their dex, but not the other way around.
Zilfallion, SAGA and 3.5 have many similarities but in 3.5 it specifically states that you are denied your DEX bonus when attacked by an opponent you can not see; this is not something I've seen in SAGA.  While the two systems are similar there are also differences in things that look like they should be the same; Fighting Defensively is one standout example of different yet very related rules.
 
Zilfallion, SAGA and 3.5 have many similarities but in 3.5 it specifically states that you are denied your DEX bonus when attacked by an opponent you can not see; this is not something I've seen in SAGA.  While the two systems are similar there are also differences in things that look like they should be the same; Fighting Defensively is one standout example of different yet very related rules.
 


I'm aware that there are some key differences.  I'm still discovering a few each session I run.  I'm really new to Saga edition.  It was one of those times that I really wanted a Star Wars campaign, no one else was willing to GM a new system, so I ended up starting a campaign.  I just thought I'd throw my two cents in.  It's why I clearly specified that I was not relating Saga edition.
To me, you should need to be hidden at least one full round (and probably even two or more) before you can reset awareness to "none."  I'll also say that if you come in hidden you can use the Snipe part of Stealth to remain hidden but if you are actually located I say it takes some time to become "lost" by your opponents again.
 

I don't think being completely hidden for 1 round will cause your opponent to become flat-footed. If you gain total cover or total concealment, he'll have to use a Perception check to locate you as a standard action, but he won't be flat-footed.

Now does being hidden for a round after combat has already started allow you to use the Deadly Sniper feat? It says: "When you make a ranged attack against a target that is unaware of you, you gain a +2 bonus on your attack roll and deal +1 die of damage on the first attack each turn."


  

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Now does being hidden for a round after combat has already started allow you to use the Deadly Sniper feat? It says: "When you make a ranged attack against a target that is unaware of you, you gain a +2 bonus on your attack roll and deal +1 die of damage on the first attack each turn."


Here I'd need to go with "you never get discovered" while things are happening.  Basically, if you can come to a fight hidden and continually use the Snipe application of Stealth successfully you can remain hidden with the enemy unaware of "you" although they may be well aware they are being attacked.  If you happen to get spotted you lose that element and would need to do some relocating to become hidden again.
 
I'd agree, just having stealth and being hidden does not necessarily mean that you can make a target flat footed or deny their DEX bonus to them.

I think it's complicated. You have the issue of a surprise round and awareness to start. Surprised opponents are flat footed. But after the surprise round is done and everyone is aware there is a new encounter started, then you maintain your vigilance as well as DEX modifier I would say representing being on edge against attacks you know are likely incoming, even if you can't see the opponent, they have concealment or total concealment against you, or are hidden, etc.

Now, if you have total concealment, it does grant you some impressive defensive bonuses. A Jedi who is Cloaked gets total concealment, which means enemies can't attack them, they can only attack into a square they think they occupy. Trying to attack a Jedi with Cloak on would take a -5 penalty on the attack roll, you can't make AoOs against them, attempts to notice them with Perception take a -10 penalty.

And there are avenues you can use to explicitly deny them their DEX bonus, or make them flat footed against you through various feats, talents, or force powers. You would need to utilize one of these options in order to gain that benefit against them, them not being able to see you doesn't do that in this game.

Some options to make opponent Flat Footed (probably not be comprehensive):
UR - Feat: Combat Trickery
RE - Scoundrel - Talent: Trick Step
CW - Jedi Guardian - Talent: Exposing Strike
JATM - Lightsaber Form Power: Swift Flank w/ Vaapad talent
JATM - Lightsaber Form Power: Unbalancing Block (potentially if UtF is greater than opponents Will Def)
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You have the issue of a surprise round and awareness to start. Surprised opponents are flat footed. But after the surprise round is done and everyone is aware there is a new encounter started, then you maintain your vigilance as well as DEX modifier I would say representing being on edge against attacks you know are likely incoming, even if you can't see the opponent, they have concealment or total concealment against you, or are hidden, etc.


Just a little correction: You regain your DEX bonus to Ref only when you act on your first turn in the regular initiative order, not when the surprise round is done. This means that if you were surprised and rolled low Initiative, you can be flat-footed well into the first round of combat.


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When it comes to Flat-footedness in combat if everyone is aware when the combat begins (ie. no Surprise round) then no one is ever caught "flat-footed" but if there is a Surprise round everyone is flat-footed until they get to act, some acting during the Surprise round and some needed to wait until well into the first regular round of combat.
 
Yep, you guys are right, I certainly could have been more clear in what I said.
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