Anyone good at making mana bases? As i have an 'Ambitious' challenge for you!

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Welcome

Im currently building a 5 Colour [CARD]Seance[/CARD] deck to play at FNM and im struggling on getting the mana base to work (what did i say, ambitious right?)

I do run farseek so i can mana fix in a game so not all is doomed

Anyway ill carry on talking once youve seen the list:

3 [CARD]Angel of Serenity[/CARD]
3 [CARD]Centaur healer[/CARD]
1 [CARD]Craterhoof behemoth[/CARD]
3 [CARD]Restoration angel[/CARD]
4 [CARD]Thragtusk[/CARD]

4 [CARD]Faithless Looting[/CARD]
4 [CARD]Farseek[/CARD]
3 [CARD]Forbidden alchemy[/CARD]
3 [CARD]Izzet charm[/CARD]
2 [CARD]Lingering souls[/CARD]
2 [CARD]Unburial rites[/CARD]
4 [CARD]Seance[/CARD]

Sideboard:
3 [CARD]Misthollow griffin[/CARD]
1 [CARD]Sigarda, host of herons[/CARD]
1 [CARD]Ancient grudge[/CARD]
2 [CARD]Ray of revelation[/CARD]
2 [CARD]Memory's journey[/CARD]
3 [CARD]Rolling temblor[/CARD]
3 [CARD]Sever the bloodline[/CARD]


Ambitious right?

So I need

Turn 1: Red
Turn 2: Red&Blue Green
Turn 3: White

The only way i can see the base of the mana base is

4 [CARD]Steam vents[/CARD]
4 [CARD]Hinterland harbor[/CARD]

Where should i go from here?
Someone please help me with this it would be much appreciated
I have an ambitious challenge for YOU:
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Make a good deck instead of making a 5 color monstrosity then expecting others to make a miraculous manabase for you that somehow overcomes your complete lack of restraint in deckbuilding.
I hate dogs.
Definitely needs more Chromatic Lantern. Also, you could probably cut some colors and be just fine. Like Blue for instance. Practically everything your deck does with those blue cards can be replicated with cards in color, cept for the countering on Izzet Charm but you shouldn't be countering stuff.

Other option is wait until Gatecrash for the other 5 Shocklands.
You could also run defender mana ramp using the gatecreeper vines, axebane guardian, and fog bank. That would help get some of your bigger creatures out sooner. You would be running more green than anything and would lose the mana combonations if you lose your axebanes but if they stay out on the field its brutal. That means you could take out the farseeks, unburial rights, and Bloodline and Alchemy if you wanted to run 4 axebane and 4 gatecreeper. To prevent losing the defenders i would suggest rootborn defense to make them indestructable so that way you can keep them out. That is what I would do though.
Cut colours. The 4th colour adds little value, the 5th adds none.
It depends what's more important to you, speed or consistency. If you don't mind an occasional slow start then I'd use 4 Transguild Promenade. If you're expecting Farseek to act as mana fixing then you're going to have to lean on green a bit heavier than normal. You can even use Shimmering Grotto as a way of casting your cheap cards (most of the red and blue stuff and the flashback on Lingering Souls) but don't rely on it to color fix for Thragtusk, Resto Angel or Rites since they are expensive enough without adding +1 to the mana cost.

These are just general principles of course you will end up filling the rest of the space in with shocklands and m10/innistrad duals plus a few basics in case you get Ghost Quartered.

PS Any reason for no Mulch or Grisly Salvage in this list? 
I have an ambitious challenge for YOU:
Show

Make a good deck instead of making a 5 color monstrosity then expecting others to make a miraculous manabase for you that somehow overcomes your complete lack of restraint in deckbuilding.



This. It's not nice, but it's true.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

From your decklist you're looking at hitting the following colors from your land drops:
1 - R
2 - G, RU
3 - GW, U, W
4 - W, WW, W, B
5 - G, B
6 -
7 - WWW, B
8 - GGG

That translates into needing the following amounts of each color to have 75% confidence of hitting it (75 is a good number to shoot for, it gives pretty consistent decks)
W - 15
U - 10
B - 7
R - 12
G - 14 (10 without hardcast Craterhoof)

That's 58 color sources, each Farseek is worth finding 2 colors so you're looking at needing 50 colored mana.  Without any other ways to find yourself mana you're going to need 25 land for this deck.  Also this is your MB only, your sideboard changes the requirement of blue to UU on land #4 which would require increasing your blue sources from 10 to 14.  That means you'll need 27 land, Keyrunes, Liliana's Shade (with a shift to using more Black), or something else to make up that mana.  I would suggest cutting the Misthollows they just don't work with your mana requirements.

As for the manabase itself, now that you know the colors you need you can look at making it.  You need a few green that come in untapped, probably 8 and you need 12 untapped red.  For the rest the guaranteed untap isn't all that important.  The issue this creates is that other than Mountains (which you can't run without jumping up to 29 land) you only have 8 red sources that can come in untapped on turn 1 meaning you'll have to accept that Faithless Looting isn't going to be a turn 1 play 1/3 of the time (67% consistency vs the 75% we're shooting for).  If you don't need the turn 1 red and would prefer Farseek on turn 2 then you can drop Red down to 9 sources.  So you're now looking at needing 47 color sources in your deck.  This is doable at 24 land.  Here's what I would suggest:
1 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
3 Blood Crypt
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Woodland Cemetary

That gives you the following color counts
W - 11
U - 7
B - 6
R - 9
G - 14

Which means you're short by
W - 4
U - 3
B - 1
R - 3
G - 0

The important part here is that you're not short by any green so that Farseek remains consistent to find you other colors, your red mostly comes in untapped giving you a chance at a turn 1 Faithless Looting but it's not as consistent as you want to see.  The list is quite high on shocklands but that's the price you pay for 5 colors.  I tried to minimize the amount but you still need quite a few to ensure your non shocks come into play untapped since the deck afterall needs to be able to function without Farseek.  As it is, it has enough colors that you'll be able to make your early plays and cast Unburial Rites without Farseek, but Farseeks are required if you want to hardcast something later in the game.  Blue is your weakest color really with the lowest chance of working without Farseek.

Personally, I think I would drop Craterhoof and switch to Griselbrand then drop an Angel of Serenity, Thragtusk, and Restoration Angel in favor of Liliana's Shade and use that to create a pumpable blocker that mana fixes for you (same idea as Seance on Borderland Ranger except since you don't have basics this finds you stuff).  This lets you go higher on black and lower on the other colors which will increase consistency since it's like adding some more mini farseeks to the deck (though they only find black, red, and green until Gatecrash, but it up's your land type counts so you can use more non shocks of other colors).  As others have said, dropping blue might be a good choice for you too.  You're not really using the cards in blue that Seance gives a huge benefit to (Angel of Glory's Rise/Alchemist Apprentice/Laboratory Manic combo... or Mirror-Mad Phantasm/Laboratory Maniac).  Personally I think you should drop both the red and blue playing just white/green/black.

Also, don't just copy/paste my list, try some combinations of land.  It's very possible there's a better combination that I missed which will allow you to run more non shocks.
IMHO, you should start by cutting blue and red.
While it may be a 'challenge' to get the mana to work for a deck like this, that doesn't make it a good idea. If your deck can operate at three colors, then it should be three colors. adding two colors to your deck that really don't do all that much is only going to come back to bite you.
To be honest, your current mana requirements are pretty crazy; your deck makes Gurren Lagann look like a sophomore-level lecture on comparative economics. Or something like that.

"I will diminish, and go into the west, and there remain SgtPepperjack. Y'know, you really ought to come along with me."

www.nogoblinsallowed.com

I have an ambitious challenge for YOU:
Show

Make a good deck instead of making a 5 color monstrosity then expecting others to make a miraculous manabase for you that somehow overcomes your complete lack of restraint in deckbuilding.


Lazy Awesome. Lacks creativity un-awesomenesss. Read this post to see everything that's wrong awesome with the Magic community of late.

I hate dogs.
When making the mana base is the most challenging part of deck creation, yo might have too many colors.
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I apologize for felisdomesticus.  If you want to play 5 colors, try adding chromatic lantern or abundant growth.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Chromatic Lantern is bad.  The last thing you want to do is rely on an artifact that causes your manabase to not function if you're missing it.  Abundant Growth is better but unnecessary.  Just use the manabase I posted (or improve on the land distribution if possible).  It will work as well as a 5 color mana base possibly can.