Wandering Monsters: Soldiers of the Blood War

Wandering Monsters 
Soldiers of the Blood War

By James Wyatt

Two weeks ago, I showed off the story brief I wrote to guide our design team in putting together the beholder for D&D Next. This week, I have the easiest column in the world to write, because I'm pretty much just pasting in those story briefs for a whole bunch more monsters.

Talk about this column here.

What Do You Think?

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Looks like the Blood War is back on. Finally. Oh, and the rest of the article was okay, too.
Good ol' Blood War ! I think James was pretty much spot on on all of his descriptions.

PS I think Succubi should be Demons again. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Good ol' Blood War ! I think James was pretty much spot on on all of his descriptions.

PS I think Succubi should be Demons again. 


Agreed.  Oh and I would like a few more powers to set them a little more apart as being supernatural 
* I never say Balor, I say Baldrog...(Some names can be changed when they are said by people who speak other language).

* We agree demons/abyssmals are chaotic and devil/baatorians are lawful, but chaothic doesn´t total anarchy. Anarchist can´t build strongholds in the Abyss. Anarchy is only a tendency, with exceptions like state-cities.

I imagine brood wars (I am sorry, I am thinking about Sarah Kerrigan..)......I imagine the blood war like a evil vesion of UN Peacekeeping blue-beret soldiers agains warlods of failen states.


* Zombies are cool, zombies are in fashion, killing zombies is fun... and manes are like zombies.

I would allow "improved version" of manes, like sentient creatures..(it would the exceptions, of course, or because they are about to evolve to the next step of fiend hierarchy, or higger demons who were punished with lower shape like humilliation).

I don´t find the right words... but I would like suggest a zombie-like creature wouldn´t be a true undead but a infected+possesed linked to manes. (have you seen Spanish horror movie "REC"?). Imagine the great surprise when cleric cast spells againt undeads and he realise the fat dwarf zombie isn´t a undead but a outsider.


And lemures like infected zombi-like creatures with the gelatinous template from Savage Species. Do you rembember a 2006 horror movie, the slitther? Imagine a parasitic ooze that transform bodies in D&D lemures..(like a little ghoul/zombie plague).


Manes and lemures would be more terrorific if they were used like simbiotic graft by crazy spellcasters... or like a biological weapon to create horror.

Let´s imagine a sadistic warlock who has punished a slave and he has been possesed by a mane, trasforming his body, and he now is a "pet" who looks a mixture of bulldog and the chatter beast from "Hellraiser: Bloodline". 

How would be manes and lemurs if they were monsters from a serie B horror movie (or survival horror videogame like Dead Space)?

* I miss the D&D erinyes. If a module of monster classes is allowed, D&D erinyes should be the first monster class from fiend list. Or create a racial speciality/subclass/build to start like tienfling who transforms to erinyes step by step without breaking balance of power.


* D&D fiends need motives or they will be only the monsters of Act IV from Diablo II. If I could I would plagiarize some ideas (about factions, sebettu/houses) from "Demon: the fallen" by White Wolf. (I suposse other companies isn´t too polite, but D&D is my favorite and I don´t like WW too much). 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Overall not too bad. It's good to see the Blood War back in what appears to be its classic 2e/3e configuration. The mention of demodands/gehreleths warms my black, twisted Planescape-loving heart. :D

It would have been cool to see an equal exploration of the various types of yugoloths. Perhaps as a followup piece? Being that they started the Blood War and actively keep it going, they deserve it.

Succubi need to go back to being demons though. They've been classic demons for three editions - almost longer than I've been alive, and the 4e change of their status not only sticks out like a sore thumb, it causes massive continuity headaches. They should be demons by default, and handled as a campaign setting level change for a 5e Nentir Vale if presented as devils.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
I sort of liked the 4e planar cosmology.  I'd be happy if demons were born of corrupted primordials.  The Blood War in the old cosmology was a bit dull but I can see how it can be given more dimensions if it about more than just Law v chaos.  I too want to see Eryines return to more mythical roots as diabolic enforcers.
Overall not too bad. It's good to see the Blood War back in what appears to be its classic 2e/3e configuration. The mention of demodands/gehreleths warms my black, twisted Planescape-loving heart. :D

It would have been cool to see an equal exploration of the various types of yugoloths. Perhaps as a followup piece? Being that they started the Blood War and actively keep it going, they deserve it.

Succubi need to go back to being demons though. They've been classic demons for three editions - almost longer than I've been alive, and the 4e change of their status not only sticks out like a sore thumb, it causes massive continuity headaches. They should be demons by default, and handled as a campaign setting level change for a 5e Nentir Vale if presented as devils.



Yes, I am pleased at the mention of yugoloths, and would have liked him to elaborate just a tad, they didn't get the same treatment as the demon and devil.

And agree succubus should be a demon, especially considering Malcanthet has her own abyssal layer.

I like the use of spells, and glabrezu effectively having wizard levels.
 
Next, Modrons!
The Bloodwar was great. It gave a good reason for the various powers to have their minions actively doing stuff, not just paitently waiting in the outer planes for a high enough level party to visit.

I liked the 4th edition cosomology, the old Great Wheel seemed to have filler planes (LE/NE-Between Hell and Hades) etc.

I like the idea of some 'fiends' working for both sides or their own ends.

I didn't like the large amount of immunities they had in 3rd edition, i'd prefer one immunity and a few resistances.
For Example - Devils immune to fire, resistant to magic. Demons immune to cold, resistant to magic. Neither resistant to poison or electricity. Both vulnerable to holy and silver.

All Devils and Demons that are large or over 8HD should have a Fear aura, similar to Dragons.

Having different fiends with different roles is good, eg some have illusion spells, other have AOE spells, others have necromancy.

You could even link some to the Githyanki vs Githzerai war, thus some encounters on the Astral, Hell, Abyss and Prime material is part of a large web of interested parties.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

The division of fiends into lawful devils and chaotic demons is one of D&D's coolest ideas. The actual execution of it is one of D&D's greatest missed opportunities. There's no reason we can't do a better job at building a design ethos for devils and demons that makes it clear why they're even considered coherant families of creatures at all, especially if you're going to try to cram a bunch of other fiend groups into the game. (Why do both Yugoloths and Devils have a bipedal insect with a spear? We could keep motifs at least a little different.) This doesn't have to be a visual overhaul, although one wouldn't be out of place.

The article does an okay-ish job of it, but I still think that priority number one for the blood war should be stepping back and figuring out what it actually means to be a devil or a demon and why two dozen refugees from the reject art dumping ground are randomly considered one or the other besides whatever was randomly scratched into their "alignment" entry whenever they first appeared. The radius of a giant spear-wielding ice bug's fear aura is less important than why a giant spear-wielding ice bug is one of the more prominant and enduring devils. The best sentence in the article is the one that says that devils are generally humanoid, because it's something that indicates that it's at least crossed their minds that devils and demons shouldn't be just completely indistiguishable except for one has a rigid formal hierarchy (that everyone wants to circumvent) and the other has no hierarchy, just an ordering based on relative strength where stronger ones can boss around the weaker ones. Oh, and they have different arbitrary elemental resistances, that's a biggie.

I wasn't sure what to put down for the survey questions. Yeah, the Nalfeshnee is a sparkle magic boarface gorilla. That's pretty much what a Nalfeshnee is. It's less clear to me that that's what a Nalfeshnee should be. There's this weird conflation of "this looks exactly like what I'm used to" and "this is what I want these creatures to look like". Similarly, the first question needs an "I appreciate the efforts to incorporate the history of these creatures into their Next designs, but many of them are completely incoherant and should be redesigned into streamlined fiendish badasses instead of creatures that look like they were designed by tearing up a monster manual and dumping the shreds onto a sticky surface."

I'm not saying that D&D Next should junk everything that came before when it comes to monster design, but where the antecedants are goofy, incoherant designs it should look for ways to refresh them, not ape them as closely as possible.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
Hmm  I guess I'm in the minority - I liked the switch of Succubi to devils.  It made a lot more sense to me.  Personally I remember having some pretty lusty thoughts after seeing the picture of the Succubus in the MM1 way back when, and that seems like devil territory to me! 

@ steely_dan:  The recent dragon mag on the blood war has an ecology of the Succubus which explains why/how the 4e version of Malcanthet has an abyssal layer, if your interested.
It would be a good time to revise the look and style of the two groups.

There is certainly a plethora of styles from our own worlds animals and plants we can borrow from

say mammals and avians for demons, then reptiles, insects, plants and sealife for devils.

The above might sound limiting, but its not.

Yes so a devil with fish scales and two eel heads might breath water, but so what? the layers of Hell and the Abyss are certainly not your regular plaines with blue sky up above.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.


@ steely_dan:  The recent dragon mag on the blood war has an ecology of the Succubus which explains why/how the 4e version of Malcanthet has an abyssal layer, if your interested.



Very interested in all fiendish lore, is it a bit like the Grazzt deal?

Do I have to pay for the article? 

say mammals and avians for demons,




Demogorgon needs tentacles.
Lots of stuff going on here, but pretty good overall. Both Devils and Demons sound very 3e in this setup. Which isn't bad, many of the 4e ones where boring and their powers where badly laid out. I like the fact that Devils have a general overall design and Demons don't. I would actually like to see this played up more, with the more inhuman devils moved towards more humanoid forms and Demons playing up the exotic without any degree of internal consistency.

In 2e and 3e the infernal creatures often had an excessive list of marginally useful power to draw upon, but 4e went too far in stripping them down. Low ranked demons and devils should have a couple of powers and higher ranked ones should have a suit of powers to draw from rather then 4e model of one or two for low ranked creatures and just a couple for powerful ones.

I'm not sure what the best solution to Succubus position is, except to say that every side needs something to fill that role. Allowing them to be LE-CE makes sense but breaks some general world logic.

I'm surprised that nobody noticed the biggest revelation here, which is the return of magic resistance. That worries me, because it was traditionally more of a patch to help cover for D&D's poor balance of magical power. If spells are balanced properly and monsters powerful enough, there shouldn't be any need for magic resistance. However, I'm not going to condemn it entirely until I see the actual mechanics.

Happy to read that the yugoloths will be returning to the game.

So far it looks like the designers have been reading the 2e monster manual for ideas, which is great news.  The resistances are very similar to what 2e did, although it's not as extensive.

"Demons have a handful of common features. They're resistant to cold, fire, and lightning, and, except for the very weakest demons (manes, dretches, and quasits), they have magic resistance. They have darkvision. They have the telepathic ability to communicate with any intelligent creature."

"Devils have a handful of common features. They're resistant to cold and immune to fire, and except for the very weakest devils (lemures) they have magic resistance. They all have darkvision and a special form of telepathy that allows them to communicate with any intelligent creature."

vs

2e demons and devils

Show


Devils(Baatezu)

All baatezu except for lemures, nupperibo, and spinagon are able to perform the following magical abilities, once per round, at will: advanced illusion, animate dead, charm person, infravision, know alignment (always active),suggestion, and teleport without error.
...







































Attack 
Damage 
Attack 
Damage 
acid 
full 
cold 
half* 
electricity (lightning) 
full 
fire (dragon, magical) 
none* 
gas 
half 
iron weapon 
none** 
magic missile 
full 
poison 
none 
silver weapon 
full*** 



*the gelugon suffers half damage from fire and none from cold.


**unless affected by normal weapons.


***greater baatezu suffer half damage from silver weapons.

Demons (Tanar'ri)

All tanar'ri with average or above average intelligence have a form of telepathy that enables them to communicate with any intelligent life form, regardless of any language barriers. 
... 









































Attack 
Damage 
Attack 
Damage 
acid 
full 
gas (poisonous, etc.) 
half 
cold 
half 
iron weapon 
full 
electricity (lightning) 
none 
magic missile 
full 
fire (magical) 
half 
poison 
none 
fire (nonmagical) 
none 
silver weapon 
full* 


* greater tanar'ri suffer half damage from silver weapons.

 



Finally, the Erinyes is a devil and the Succubus is a demon!



I'm surprised that nobody noticed the biggest revelation here, which is the return of magic resistance. That worries me, because it was traditionally more of a patch to help cover for D&D's poor balance of magical power. If spells are balanced properly and monsters powerful enough, there shouldn't be any need for magic resistance. However, I'm not going to condemn it entirely until I see the actual mechanics.




We have already seen the mechanics for magic resistance in the bestiary (drow, vrock, etc): advantage on all saving throws made vs. magical effects.

I really like it.
I'm surprised that nobody noticed the biggest revelation here, which is the return of magic resistance. That worries me, because it was traditionally more of a patch to help cover for D&D's poor balance of magical power. If spells are balanced properly and monsters powerful enough, there shouldn't be any need for magic resistance. However, I'm not going to condemn it entirely until I see the actual mechanics.


That's like saying if weapons are balanced properly, there shouldn't be any need for armor.

Specific defenses against magic should exist.  Not to balance spells across the board, but rather emphasize just how badass the thing that's got resistance is.


+1 to the Blood War.  Having evil groups and forces that have their own goals beyond just killing all of us puny mortals gives more depth and character to them, rather than just a nameless, faceless, flavorless antagonist.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I don't like the Blood War and am sad to see it baked in.  I was hoping it would be relegated as a potential cosmology for a Manual fo the Planes sourcebook and not the default.

BECMI, 1e, and 4e didn't have a Blood War so I don't think it a necessary inclusion.  I'd rather demons and devils be distinguished on their attitudes towards mortals and not towards each other. 
BECMI, 1e, and 4e didn't have a Blood War so I don't think it a necessary inclusion.  I'd rather demons and devils be distinguished on their attitudes towards mortals and not towards each other. 


Not a necessary inclusion, but I missed it when it was gone.

Also not everything is about us.  We're not the center of the multiverse.  Having non-Material Plane groups have their own identity, their own goals, their own methods, independent of their interaction with us, makes them closer to real characters, not just foils.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
We're not the center of the multiverse.


Yes we are.
 
That was slightly tongue-in-cheek.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

Actually, we are... at least in the Greyhawk universe where the Blood War exists...




The centre of Greyspace (one crystal sphere), not the multiverse.

And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.
Fine.  more to the point.
Having non-Material Plane groups have their own identity, their own goals, their own methods, independent of their interaction with us, makes them closer to real characters, not just foils.


I prefer them to be foils.  And I have no problem giving anthropophilic outsiders their own identities, goals, and methods.  The mythological bases for demons and devils are all focused on their relationship with mortals, and we've been telling engaging yarns about them for tens of thousands of years. The Blood War is the aberration.
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.  It exists in Planescape, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Spelljammer.  Sp it exists in only half of the Second Edition campaign settings.
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.




Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.
One man's aberration is another's innovation.

Foils just seem so...boring.  By the time you're really going extraplanar, and plumbing the depths of the Nine Hells, there has to be something bigger than your own little insignificant world.  Foils work fine for lower levels, when you have the occasional wizard summoning a demon that the adventurers have to deal with, or a devil to tempt them, but as the characters and plotlines grow in scope, the adversaries should as well.  "The evil demon who wants to kill the puny mortals" is rather uncompelling when we're dealing directly with deities, both as allies and enemies.

The Blood War gives demons and devils a purpose beyond just making our lives miserable.  Why are you objecting to more depth, when you already have what you want?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.


In SPelljammer, Krynnspace is not Dragonlance.  it is the version of Dragonlance that is incorporated into Spelljammer.  I know it's a cute metaargument to incorporate everything into Spelljammer, but the Spelljammer Campaign Setting makes it clear that these are versions of the various campaign settings for that Spelljammer setting.  So let's cut the needless syllogisms, okay?
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.




Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.



Isn't there a ravenloft domain lord that's a demon ? 

I also recal Van Richten’s Guide to Fiends/Demons 


One man's aberration is another's innovation.


yes, which is why my first post in this thread said "I don't like the Blood War and am sad to see it baked in."

Foils just seem so...boring.


"Foil" is just another word for NPC.  The demons and the devils of the Blood War are still foils.  They only come into the game when they interact with PCs.  

By the time you're really going extraplanar, and plumbing the depths of the Nine Hells, there has to be something bigger than your own little insignificant world.


Only if your world is little and insignificant.  

"The evil demon who wants to kill the puny mortals" is rather uncompelling when we're dealing directly with deities, both as allies and enemies.


I'm sorry, but is that what I said the motivationf or demons and devils should be?  I mean, you put it in quotes and you're responding to me, so I guess I must have said that somewhere.  because otherwise, that's a rank straw man you've created, and I'm pretty sure you'd be pretty apologetic if you were trying to throw straw men around.

The Blood War gives demons and devils a purpose beyond just making our lives miserable.  Why are you objecting to more depth, when you already have what you want?


I'm sorry, but what part of "I was hoping it would be relegated as a potential cosmology for a Manual fo the Planes sourcebook and not the default"made you think I didn't want you to have the Blood War available to you?!

I view the 4e cosmology the same way I view the changes to the FR (spellplague).     They were not needed at all and the changes only caused confusion.  

The great wheel is iconic to D&D and I'm happy it will return again.     It's a well needed correction.   


"The evil demon who wants to kill the puny mortals" is rather uncompelling when we're dealing directly with deities, both as allies and enemies.


I'm sorry, but is that what I said the motivationf or demons and devils should be?


Did I say that you did?  You seem really touchy on this whole discussion, and seem to be making it about me, and thinking that I'm insulting your playstyle.  I'm not.  We just disagree.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
"Foil" is just another word for NPC.


I disagree quite strongly with this, and my choice of the word "foil" was not made lightly.  A foil character is one that exists simply to oppose the protagonist.  Whereas an antagonist that isn't a foil isn't used so simply by the story.  Both are NPCs, and the word is not a synonym.  Some NPCs are foils, some aren't.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I don't like the Blood War and am sad to see it baked in.  I was hoping it would be relegated as a potential cosmology for a Manual fo the Planes sourcebook and not the default.

BECMI, 1e, and 4e didn't have a Blood War so I don't think it a necessary inclusion.  I'd rather demons and devils be distinguished on their attitudes towards mortals and not towards each other. 



I'm with you.  Yeah it can be ignored, and I tend to buy a monster manual for usable stats not story, I certainly appreciate usable information.  If I have to ignore two thirds of the information printed it just doesn't do me much good.

Also I wouldn't mind succubus and erinyies removed from the whole devil and demon equation entirely.  Make succubus their own type of fiend and erinyies being creatures who punish those who break contracts without all the fiendish bits.
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.




Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.



Note that it Dragonlance was forced in to it with none of the creators wanting it and it does not fit any of the stories created in the novels, considering the fact that the Dragonlance.  So yes it is written that it is way but nothing internally shows that.  I'm probably pretty certain we would find it the same for both Birthright, and Dark Sun.
Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.


In SPelljammer, Krynnspace is not Dragonlance.  it is the version of Dragonlance that is incorporated into Spelljammer.  I know it's a cute metaargument to incorporate everything into Spelljammer, but the Spelljammer Campaign Setting makes it clear that these are versions of the various campaign settings for that Spelljammer setting.  So let's cut the needless syllogisms, okay?



Let's cut the rudeness, please, actually, you're coming off as more bitter, not necessary, that was the 2nd Ed D&D meta-setting as of 1994, deal.

Later on all sorts of fiascos happened. 
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.




Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.




Isn't there a ravenloft domain lord that's a demon ? 

I also recal Van Richten’s Guide to Fiends/Demons 




Probably, there are all sorts of Darklords (rakshasa, elder brain), one was ruled by an Athasian Sorceress Queen.
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.




Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.




Isn't there a ravenloft domain lord that's a demon ? 

I also recal Van Richten’s Guide to Fiends/Demons 




Probably, there are all sorts of Darklords (rakshasa, elder brain), one was ruled by an Athasian Sorceress Queen.



Yep if it was evil it was thrown in the melting pot, probably not best for the setting as a whole, since it hurt it thematically, but 2nd ed was all about throwing things together.

As someone who's first forays into gaming were with Spelljammer, and some of his first fantasy books were about Dragonlance, I loved everything about the two being linked.  Krynnspace, Kender and Gnomes are forever jumbled together in my mind.  The thought of the Wars of the Lance taking place on little old Krynn, while foreign visitors from other sphere's occaisionally came down to trade for goods, always sparked my imagination.  I use to envision great fleets of Elves and Men battling the Evil races while the people below watched the Heaven's in fear and awe, unknowing of what took place above them, yet able to see the occaisional result of a ship destroyed or great magics unleased.  

Fond Memories, from just before High School for me. 
And technically, The Blood War also exists in all the 2nd Ed campaign settings.


It does not exist in Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Birthright, or Dark Sun.




Yes it does, it mentions Krynn (Tiamat is Takhisis) and Cerilia (Birthright) in the original Planescape boxed set, and Dark Sun is in a closed Crystal Sphere (but the Githyanki invaded Athas), Ravenloft can touch any world/crystal sphere on the Material Plane.




Isn't there a ravenloft domain lord that's a demon ? 

I also recal Van Richten’s Guide to Fiends/Demons 




Probably, there are all sorts of Darklords (rakshasa, elder brain), one was ruled by an Athasian Sorceress Queen.



Yep if it was evil it was thrown in the melting pot, probably not best for the setting as a whole, since it hurt it thematically, but 2nd ed was all about throwing things together.




Not al all. I think fiends /demons fit well with the Ravenloft setting.   You really should read that van richten's guide before making a comment like that.  






As someone who's first forays into gaming were with Spelljammer, and some of his first fantasy books were about Dragonlance, I loved everything about the two being linked.  Krynnspace, Kender and Gnomes are forever jumbled together in my mind.  The thought of the Wars of the Lance taking place on little old Krynn, while foreign visitors from other sphere's occaisionally came down to trade for goods, always sparked my imagination.  I use to envision great fleets of Elves and Men battling the Evil races while the people below watched the Heaven's in fear and awe, unknowing of what took place above them, yet able to see the occaisional result of a ship destroyed or great magics unleased.  

Fond Memories, from just before High School for me. 




IMO, that's what D&D is all about