Best 2hg pairings.

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I wanted to see which decks people thought worked best together in 2hg including deck lists. Just saying DP and CW for example says very little if we can't see the choices in each deck.
DP/SS
ED/CW (control)
GM/BoF
SaS/AS
OD/CW (control)
PK/GG (brutal speed)

Actually about any deck combos nicely with control CW.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Can't put up any deck lists until I get off work.
My CW is more than likely the same as everyone elses control version, I'm just very adept with it in 2hg format

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Since I play control decks almost exclusively (2012's Boros being the only notable exception), I think the most powerful combo is still Liliana + Talrand (the most powerful lategame ever) or Liliana + Golgari (better versatility across the board).

I also really like Mindstorms (or whatever that Izzet deck is called, I'm bad with names) + Crosswinds, both played as heavy control versions. Might be on a weak side of the spectrum, since Izzet deck is just so very bad, but capable of some seriously sick stuff once they hit 6 mana. Games are quite challenging (the most challenging opponent being, usually, the clunkiness of the Izzet deck itself), with multiple game-defining choices during the match, and surviving till late game is very rewarding, with all that infinite Time Warps, crazy card advantage and other great mini-synergies between two decks.
to add to that list:

MS and CW
you can go on forever and ever and ever and ever...
I'd have to say SaS and MS is great. There are so many little synergies, like Ms card draw for SaS snakes. People don't seem to expect a little 2/2 to grow to 6/6 or higher on n 4. I think they compliment each other well. Doesn't really have any struggling points except against DP and it's sword. 

I'll try to post my decklist in a bit and see if Karstien will post his. I use the same MS for both 1v1 and 2HG and I have to say I have made it to my liking, and disagree with others opinions it is a bad deck at all. In fact it is, quite literally the only deck I play at all. But of course that is just my opinion as well.
Avenger of Zendikar is not game... Got a question as to whether a card without shroud or hexproof is good? Answer is, dies to removal. "Control Slivers"
We use Crosswinds + Aura Servants and play a lot. ~90-95% victory.
Some not-so popular but quite effective combos:

AoW (with all 4 Rally the Righteous) + Any deck with red or white, GG, CL, BoF, PK and GM are probably the best. MS and CM probably work well too, not quite sure about ED or AS, probably not as much as the others.

CL + OD (great sweepers, massive lifegain)
GM + AW (Mana denial, mid and late-game dominant)
OD + AW (Mana denial, devastating late-game)
BoF + MS 
Crosswinds and Obedient Dead. I dont think there is a better pairing if there are no "luck" issues like drawing too much or too little land.

Get me and my partner to 7 land each and Id say we are gonna win 90+% of the time. Assuming we are not playing against Crosswinds in which case the odds go back up for grabs.

I wish Magic had a system like televised poker does, where the percentage chance for winning was listed at all times and changed on what was being played. In that case Id say any match that features CW against a team NOT using CW would have an immediate 60% to 40% advantage. And If I draw a Time Warp and 3-4 land in my first draw Id say the odds tilt to 65/35.

erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"Consistant MS" libraryfor Mindstorms (Izzet): 39 picks, 60 cardserdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~=eoj=1~~Consistant MS~~2AOjp7g~~4=2Fh=?~~3=kUplf~~2=Xz0?X~~2BYC3qY~~3B4tSif~~2?eEcrk~~3?wemhZ~~2BpCsF?~~3=?sK7D~~2AAvRXm~~4?2vriJ~~2BBav4z~~1AZFuNK~~1BZIVNQ~~2=Gi0XO~~1B2nrtN~~))))))))
   cost  
 Spell ■■■■ Terramorphic Expanse   
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Razorfin Hunter  1/1   
 Spell ■■■ Mana Leak   
   cost  
 Creature ■■■■ Wee Dragonauts  1/3   
 Spell ■■■ Arc Lightning   
 Cerebral Vortex   
■■■ Compulsive Research   
■■ Electrolyze   
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Lightning Elemental  4/1   
■■■ Steamcore Weird  1/3   
 Spell  Puca's Mischief   
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Dominus of Fealty  4/4  ()()()()(
■■ Izzet Chronarch  2/2   
■■ Spellbound Dragon  3/5   
 Spell ■■ Prophetic Bolt   
■■ Time Warp   
   cost  
 Spell  Insurrection   
erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>



My decklist for MS. I feel that this paired with my partners SaS is very devastating. card draw, plenty of creatures. Insurrection for those stalemates, I feel the best way to build this deck is to pick a few three of's or four of's and put those in there to keep it as consistant as possible. No decks really offer us trouble except DP and it's sword, which my partner can deal with as it rarely comes up. Or I can burn as it is being equipped.


Notable exclusions are all 6 mana and higher creatures. As much as I love little shroud 5/5's I love Insurrection more. Those two are interchangeable I suppose, but if you take out the Insurrection then the mana curves to 12 mountain/9 island or something, which I can not do.      
Avenger of Zendikar is not game... Got a question as to whether a card without shroud or hexproof is good? Answer is, dies to removal. "Control Slivers"
As tempting as it is, i'll avoid rowing with Stevolutionary (again) over why I think CW and ED are a better pair than all of those...it really does come down to individual playstyle and preference. Instead, i'll post my SaS build I use with Tripp's MS. Consistant, fun and overwhelming combo that plays to both our strengths and weaknesses. Plenty of both early aggro and stall, and late game is devestating, even against CW's late game. 

 
erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"Oceans apart SaS build." libraryfor Sky and Scale (Simic): 40 picks, 61 cardserdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~AykkE3~~Oceans apart SaS build.~~4Bzd50A~~2Ac4AZB~~2A2DfC7~~2=gUmvW~~1AVqU4w~~3BhiwOS~~1=zM14J~~2AP36?9~~3?WQTVP~~2AhmBKx~~1=0vs4S~~1=H61ZR~~3?2vriJ~~1A?rQBw~~1?AFJwX~~2Bd0Zqm~~2B?vxgc~~1BmhSfr~~1?ylwis~~1=?7WmU~~1?keNGj~~1?wUL4Q~~1=59Gvs~~1AymGfv~~))))))))
erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid rgb(7, 95, 107); border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">   cost   Spell ■■■ Terramorphic Expanse      cost   Spell ■■ Groundswell   ■■ Pongify      cost   Creature ■■■■ Coiling Oracle  1/1    Spell ■ Quest for the Gemblades   ■ Regrowth      cost   Creature ■■■ Lorescale Coatl  2/2   ■■ Selkie Hedge-Mage  2/2  () ■ Trygon Predator  2/3   ■■ Winged Coatl  1/1   ■ Wistful Selkie  2/2  ()()()  Spell ■ Snakeform  ()    cost   Creature ■ Mystic Snake  2/2   ■ Sower of Temptation  2/2      cost   Creature ■■ Acidic Slime  2/2   ■ Momir Vig, Simic Visionary  2/2   ■ Murkfiend Liege  4/4  ()()() ■■ Overbeing of Myth  */*  ()()()()()  Spell ■■■ Aether Mutation      cost   Creature ■ Draining Whelk  1/1   ■ Multani, Maro-Sorcerer  */*    Spell ■■ Fable of Wolf and Owl  ()()()    cost   Creature ■ Protean Hulk  6/6   ■ Simic Sky Swallower  6/6   erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>



Basic tactics are simple. Early stall with oracles, coatls and Tripp's merfolk and counters, unless we get the lorescale + compulsive research combo. We both have the draw to hold our own if we need to, in case of bad draws from one of us, and the fastest win we had was turn four, but that involved an idiot with wheel and deal, a lorescale coatl, a compulsive reasearch and a groundswell. 

We can remove almost any creature that gets in our way through combat tricks, outright burn, or if it really s too big, snakeform let's tripp take out anything we can target with any burn or his pingers. And draws me a card, so i'm happy too. My deck is 61 cards, though i'm on the verge of taking out the hulk, since he has had a beneficial effect once in around 40 games...so he isn't mandatory.  
I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
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As tempting as it is, i'll avoid rowing with Stevolutionary (again) over why I think CW and ED are a better pair than all of those...it really does come down to individual playstyle and preference. Instead, i'll post my SaS build I use with Tripp's MS. Consistant, fun and overwhelming combo that plays to both our strengths and weaknesses. Plenty of both early aggro and stall, and late game is devestating, even against CW's late game.


I've no intention of arguing, but just to say the proof is in the pudding. The decklists I have posted have been proven to be top 5 leaderboard ranked decks. If you believe in your Exalted-Crosswinds combo, I will agree with you when you can consistently beat people in ranked with it and have a leaderboard position to support it.

I'm not saying that's impossible - just until then I can only take your word for it, and in my experience over hundreds of games, Exalted is pretty awful in 2HG and Talrand suffers unless with Mill, Izzet or Lifegain.

In the top 10, a single loss takes you back 10 victories, so you need a 10-1 win ratio just to stay still, so that's a minimum requirement. You're looking at 20-1 and better to be above Liliana/Jace or Rakdos/Chandra. Talrand/Izzet, the third power combo I gave isn't as strong as those two, but can still go 10 for 1 at least.

I'm not disputing to be belligerent or to feed my ego, just to back up what I believe as asked in the original post.


Not that he can read this but I'm sure the general consensus is that rank has never really mattered on a BROKEN LEADERBOARD. 
Also seeing as Karstien and I are 300 ranks apart I don't rank up, ever. As you have clearly shown in a thread of your own btw. So data is hard to come by. I am positive we win 20 to 1, easy actually, with both combo's.
Avenger of Zendikar is not game... Got a question as to whether a card without shroud or hexproof is good? Answer is, dies to removal. "Control Slivers"
As tempting as it is, i'll avoid rowing with Stevolutionary (again) over why I think CW and ED are a better pair than all of those...it really does come down to individual playstyle and preference. Instead, i'll post my SaS build I use with Tripp's MS. Consistant, fun and overwhelming combo that plays to both our strengths and weaknesses. Plenty of both early aggro and stall, and late game is devestating, even against CW's late game.


I've no intention of arguing, but just to say the proof is in the pudding. The decklists I have posted have been proven to be top 5 leaderboard ranked decks. If you believe in your Exalted-Crosswinds combo, I will agree with you when you can consistently beat people in ranked with it and have a leaderboard position to support it.

I'm not saying that's impossible - just until then I can only take your word for it, and in my experience over hundreds of games, Exalted is pretty awful in 2HG and Talrand suffers unless with Mill, Izzet or Lifegain.

In the top 10, a single loss takes you back 10 victories, so you need a 10-1 win ratio just to stay still, so that's a minimum requirement. You're looking at 20-1 and better to be above Liliana/Jace or Rakdos/Chandra. Talrand/Izzet, the third power combo I gave isn't as strong as those two, but can still go 10 for 1 at least.

I'm not disputing to be belligerent or to feed my ego, just to back up what I believe as asked in the original post.



{Edit} As a sidenote, there are no such thing as player matches in PSN, only matches. If I want to test or play with a different partner, which I do every so often, it can and will affect the rankings. Those leaderboards are fine if that's what you're into, but as a serious player, you can't judge by them since one bad connection shoots you down ten spots. We played a guy ranked as high as you can get without hacking...he was terrible. Played a team in the thousands too, they were much, much better. 


No arguements, just discussion here. And no, not the kind that plays for leaderboards, or even tries due to my unfortunate habit of DC'ing when connected with Americans. Happened at least five times today, one in a match with Eaglenitewllow and LOGAN, when LOGAN and myself were roughly one turn from winning...but the combo speaks for itself in sheer staying power and finishing ability. Nothing can stall like those two, with arbiters, cloaks, banks and counters. The removal suite lacks only sweepers, and when they can only swing with one creature due to a cloaked arbiter...that isn't a glaring weakness. We can easily hold up a record of 20-1 with this build if you don't cound Disconnects, but like I said, we all have our preferences. You don't like ED, that's your own thing. It works in this build. I don't like mill, but i'm sure it works in yours, so bygones?
I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
I've played hundreds of 2HG games

I would start my post the same way. As I mainly play 2hg, I will share my experience!
Platform: Steam
Rank: 83 (2hg)
Crosswinds and Mindstorms - is what I've been using along with my partner, we've tested this non stop for about a week.
Day 1 average games played 20, losses 0.
Day 2 average games played 20, losses 0.
Day 3 average games played 25, losses 1; to Dream Puppets and Goblin Gangland.
Day 4 average games played 20, losses 1; to Tarland and Mindstorms.
We don't always have time to play, but we are experimenting new combos, because this one people leave after turn 5 (first Time Warp drop).

Goblin Gangland and Act of War - is the new turn 3 - 4 win. With 4x Rally the Righteous especially deadly with Krenko, Mob Boss and Goblin Chieftain. Not to mention Boros Guildmage giving haste to all goblins. As this is a fairly new combo a total of 15 games were played, and around 3-4 losses recieved.

Personal favorite 2hg combo: Born of Flame and Ancient Wilds - the reason being for the abuse of the following: Terastodon + Beast Within + Flamebreak + Earthquake + Magma Phoenix. Burning away the tokens made from opponents land is just fun!

If anyone wants I can post deck builds.
I've played hundreds of 2HG games

I would start my post the same way. As I mainly play 2hg, I will share my experience!
Platform: Steam
Rank: 83 (2hg)
Crosswinds and Mindstorms - is what I've been using along with my partner, we've tested this non stop for about a week.
Day 1 average games played 20, losses 0.
Day 2 average games played 20, losses 0.
Day 3 average games played 25, losses 1; to Dream Puppets and Goblin Gangland.
Day 4 average games played 20, losses 1; to Tarland and Mindstorms.
We don't always have time to play, but we are experimenting new combos, because this one people leave after turn 5 (first Time Warp drop).

Goblin Gangland and Act of War - is the new turn 3 - 4 win. With 4x Rally the Righteous especially deadly with Krenko, Mob Boss and Goblin Chieftain. Not to mention Boros Guildmage giving haste to all goblins. As this is a fairly new combo a total of 15 games were played, and around 3-4 losses recieved.

Personal favorite 2hg combo: Born of Flame and Ancient Wilds - the reason being for the abuse of the following: Terastodon + Beast Within + Flamebreak + Earthquake + Magma Phoenix. Burning away the tokens made from opponents land is just fun!

If anyone wants I can post deck builds.



id like to see them pls
I've also played 100's of 2hg games on psn

It is clear that mindstorms and talrand is the absolute best.  Talrand and something else is second tier, then you have everything else.  I used to use talrand to stop the ajani turn 1 ascendant people but since they took that out, all those type (play to win) dudes now use talrand.  I feel it is worse then double jace was last year and maybe even worse than last years double lilliana too.

On PS3 you will rarely find a game without a talrand opponent any more...even people with 90+cards that just play whatever card is highlighted can have success with the double timewarp combo..how someone can play the same combo over and over is beyond me.  It is virtually a free win if the other team isn't some super fast aggro or they don't have counterspells.

When people buy the next NBA game do they just pick the heat?  Does noone want to beat the Heat with some underdog anymore?? 

and the clear indicator of what the best combo is  , is what does the other team always pick after you just beat them a few times in a row?  I gaurantee one of them is going talrand and there is a high chance the other dude  going mindstorms!! 
I feel your pain, I get kicked remarkably easy, and it's rarely in a bad board position. The current theory, which I believe, is that the game has a problem with tokens going to the graveyard sometimes, trying to keep up with the fact they don't. It does seem to happen mostly when I have a lot of them about to die...but meh, i'll work through it. You're lucky you aren't on psn, if there is one thing I know x-box has it's a better internet service for gaming. 
I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
You can try to optimise the decks to dig through themselves as quickly as possible to make them more reliable (as I have) but there's still no real backup to the plan should that fail, unlike other decks.

Mindstorms:

Crosswinds:
[deck]
3x Sleight of Hand
2x Azure Mage
2x Fog Bank
1x Spiketail Hatchling
2x Disperse
2x Mana Leak
1x Twincast
1x Call to Mind
2x Cancel
1x Keep Watch
2x Repulse
2x Archaeomancer
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
3x Rite of Replication
1x Bribery
1x Followed Footsteps
1x Future Sight
1x Panoptic Mirror
1x Tidings
1x Time Reversal
2x Time Warp
2x Blatant Thievery
[/deck]
Optimized with plenty to dig, fall back on, alternative win conditions. You name it, it's there. As I said the losses with this combo are very rare. But you need players that know when to hold back, when to make the right plays. It all depends on the players. Good luck if anyone wants to test this out.
Tripp, your right about arbitrary, broken rankings on the psn but I believe Stevo is on the XBL and that clearly has a different ranking system.
I'm at around 1200 or so on psn but I feel that doesn't reflect my true skill in the format as seemingly hundreds of disconnects I'm sure have contributed to it. Maybe a few random partners against Karstien and You didn't help Smile

Here is my infamous, plain Jane Crosswinds. I'm sure it's like everything else but in playing this cut I have complete confidence in my draws, and I believe confidence is a big part in playing Crosswinds.

To the point. I see many players put out a Fog Bank just because they can, even if there isn't a threat on the board. Open mana for a bluff is preferable to me unless the threat is eminent, and even then I'll think twice about playing one before I really have to.

This cut regularly deals me a few mana, Slight of Hand, a Bank/Leak/Cancel/Repulse and higher priced items. Slight is a great mana ramper along with Keep Watch.

I am so comfortable with this deck but I don't recommend it for everyone.



erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">


"CW 2HG" library


for Crosswinds (Talrand): 35 picks, 60 cards


erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~A9tt70~~CW 2HG~~1?tOp5Q~~3=axpYl~~2=kOBAk~~3Bo4Bxd~~2?rQfQL~~2BWnSEu~~3AnIAXI~~2?frNYl~~2B4tSif~~2=Gi0XO~~1AYdIxA~~1?OVR3h~~1?io1W4~~1ATkvde~~1?k=64=~~1=4Y6DM~~1BuEYZY~~2A2Aipb~~1=Gi4hy~~1BCFj6X~~1=t0uW0~~1BvWm?I~~))))))))





































































































































































































































 Creatures 
   cost  ■■■ Fog Bank  0/2   
   cost  ■■■ Rite of Replication   
   cost   Bribery   
 Followed Footsteps   
 Removal 
   cost  ■■ Blatant Thievery   
 Bounce 
   cost  ■■ Disperse   
   cost  ■■ Repulse   
 Control 
   cost  ■■ Mana Leak   
   cost  ■■ Cancel   
   cost  ■■ Time Warp   
 Draw 
   cost   Curiosity   
■■■ Sleight of Hand   
   cost   Keep Watch   
   cost   Future Sight   
 Tidings   
 Recycle 
   cost   Twincast   
   cost   Call to Mind   
   cost  ■■ Archaeomancer  1/2   
   cost   Panoptic Mirror   
   cost   Cast Through Time   
 Utility 
   cost   Gravitational Shift   
 Time Reversal   




erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>


It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

@devilwuster - Blatant Thievery and maybe the Manticores are probably card I should include to give it a bit more power lategame outside of the turn combo, but like I say, I don't really play the Talrand Izzet combo as I'm not a huge fan of how the decks do build themselves to a degree, so haven't fully optimised mine. I prefer decks with a greater leeway to customise effectively.

As you can see from the Talrand decks posted, most only change 4 cards at the most, whereas in say a Liliana deck, or a Yeva deck, or a Golgari deck, that number fluctutates a lot more. Sure, there's a drakes build, but it's really a full tier at least below the control build, meaning there's no point, and a hybrid build is less effective still IMO, so everyone goes Talrand control and there's only a few cards that really need debating over - the majority are obvious includes.

Regarding 360 ranking, it is more stable than PSN from what I can tell. There's no real exploits apart from SP ranking (which is irrlevent) and 2HG's top 20 at least is entirely booster-free (although there's a few cheap people who ranked up high in the first week when there were not many people on the leaderboards then stopped playing to preserve position)

The worst element is the occasional disconnect during loading (which still counts as a loss) but that's the game in general I think. I never really feel XBL is to blame. Other than that the games never crash for me, and a mid-game disconnect is exceedingly rare.



Blatant Thievery under the Mirror is the best.
I would like this, and that. May I have some more land?
Thank you.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

@devilwuster - Blatant Thievery and maybe the Manticores are probably card I should include to give it a bit more power lategame outside of the turn combo, but like I say, I don't really play the Talrand Izzet combo as I'm not a huge fan of how the decks do build themselves to a degree, so haven't fully optimised mine. I prefer decks with a greater leeway to customise effectively.

As you can see from the Talrand decks posted, most only change 4 cards at the most, whereas in say a Liliana deck, or a Yeva deck, or a Golgari deck, that number fluctutates a lot more. Sure, there's a drakes build, but it's really a full tier at least below the control build, meaning there's no point, and a hybrid build is less effective still IMO, so everyone goes Talrand control and there's only a few cards that really need debating over - the majority are obvious includes.

Regarding 360 ranking, it is more stable than PSN from what I can tell. There's no real exploits apart from SP ranking (which is irrlevent) and 2HG's top 20 at least is entirely booster-free (although there's a few cheap people who ranked up high in the first week when there were not many people on the leaderboards then stopped playing to preserve position)

The worst element is the occasional disconnect during loading (which still counts as a loss) but that's the game in general I think. I never really feel XBL is to blame. Other than that the games never crash for me, and a mid-game disconnect is exceedingly rare.



Blatant Thievery under the Mirror is the best.
I would like this, and that. May I have some more land?
Thank you.



I will never forget the time my opponent imprinted Blatant Thievery on his Mirror... and next turn I cast my own Blatant Thievery to take it! I actually had two Panoptic Mirrors on the battlefield later in that game. Epic.
Two Mirrors.... Hmmm.... Sounds tasty.
I have yet to be in the position to do that but I will remember to try it if I can. Cool

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Liliana+Jace (Control build, not Mill) - My combo.



Can you explain your choice of Jace over Talrand? The control version of Jace seems to lack the engame power, comparing to Crosswinds, but I admit I haven't played it much (if at all), so might as well be missing something.

When I was running Talrand + Liliana (pre-expansion 1), we won most games with Talrand's finishers, not Lil's, since demons get instakilled most of the time - opponents are usually sitting on a ton of worthless removal by then. Liliana mostly provided means to get to the late game and some random Titan to replicate.
Liliana+Jace (Control build, not Mill) - My combo.



Can you explain your choice of Jace over Talrand? The control version of Jace seems to lack the engame power, comparing to Crosswinds, but I admit I haven't played it much (if at all), so might as well be missing something.

When I was running Talrand + Liliana (pre-expansion 1), we won most games with Talrand's finishers, not Lil's, since demons get instakilled most of the time - opponents are usually sitting on a ton of worthless removal by then. Liliana mostly provided means to get to the late game and some random Titan to replicate.



This.

I looked at the Jace control and it seems pretty good, but there are still a bunch of mill cards in a deck your not really using to mill, right? Which cards in that deck, that aren't in CW, make you prefer DP?

Is it Chancellor of the Spires? Cause, yeah, that card can really bend Talrand over...

What a well thought out and detailed response. Thanks for that for starters. You make some damn good points which I suppose are easy for you to make having played umpteen hundreds of games using that deck. Im not familiar with it at all, it just isnt my prefered style of play, so its nice to see a deck Ive considered "weak" in the past is seemingly up amongst the strongest when set and used correctly. Really drives home the rock, paper, scissors aspect.


You need a deep working knowledge of each deck to make it work as you will be using enemy cards against them as win cons a lot of the time, which also makes it more challenging and interesting to me as every game is different.


This is what I strive to master, a deep working knowledge of each and every deck. Someone sent me a message the other day saying that Crosswinds was the easiest deck to play. I disagree but thats outside the point. The point is that if you are going to use a control deck you have to know what there is to control. Knowing when not to use a Cancel is more than half the battle. Want to cast Bribery? Better know every creature in every deck so you know what to take. Crosswinds may be "easy" to use, but its not easy to know every card in every deck, and how much they cost and when they are dangerous and when not.

I dont see myself switching from Talrand cause I really enjoy using that deck and I play to enjoy the game, but I really appreciate your giving me a new look on the strengths of the Jace deck.
if I did believe  that you only lost twice to double timewarps 2 out of 50 then I would have to believe that you are so good that if you used it you would never loose.  Although I see you use jace and as I said the only way around double timewarps are either crazy fast aggro or counterspells. Trust me if you random spin the deck selector you will notice there is alot of combos without counters,but yours does have the best one!!

I have had some luck with land destruction but you kinda need to go first with most decks to be able to keep killing there talrands 4th land or mindstorms second blue.  Sometimes UWD can kill em when they timewarp or jaces font or muse can mill if ya lucky, but you have a very specific combo that apparently beats double timewarps 96percent of the time.  It sounds like they never counter your clones or something? idk

I was also wondering how you dudes talk your teamates into what exact cards to use...Sometimes it seems they won't even let me pick my deck after they do where they think they are better at picking the combo's even...I could just imagine trying to tell em every single card to pick.

I literally went back and played last years last weekend and double jace is still divinationing and other draw cards by the time doubletimewarps could of killed you twice!!   

My bets on that new discard deck spoiling some of the doubletimewarp dudes days, possibly with jace, lilliana, or rakdos!! 
if I did believe  that you only lost twice to double timewarps 2 out of 50 then I would have to believe that you are so good that if you used it you would never loose.  Although I see you use jace and as I said the only way around double timewarps are either crazy fast aggro or counterspells. Trust me if you random spin the deck selector you will notice there is alot of combos without counters,but yours does have the best one!!

I have had some luck with land destruction but you kinda need to go first with most decks to be able to keep killing there talrands 4th land or mindstorms second blue.  Sometimes UWD can kill em when they timewarp or jaces font or muse can mill if ya lucky, but you have a very specific combo that apparently beats double timewarps 96percent of the time.  It sounds like they never counter your clones or something? idk

I was also wondering how you dudes talk your teamates into what exact cards to use...Sometimes it seems they won't even let me pick my deck after they do where they think they are better at picking the combo's even...I could just imagine trying to tell em every single card to pick.

I literally went back and played last years last weekend and double jace is still divinationing and other draw cards by the time doubletimewarps could of killed you twice!!   

My bets on that new discard deck spoiling some of the doubletimewarp dudes days, possibly with jace, lilliana, or rakdos!! 



Double timewarps is a gimmick play, you are looking for one of those cards, and the means to either place it under the mirror or copy it for the turn...a lot of other deck combos can outright kill you before that or simply watch you do nothing of notw with your free turns and then resume hitting you in the face. I'm not saying it's a bad gimmick, it can and does win, but that will never be the best. There is no real diversity in the play, you even named the whole pairing double timewarps...

I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
if I did believe  that you only lost twice to double timewarps 2 out of 50 then I would have to believe that you are so good that if you used it you would never loose.  Although I see you use jace and as I said the only way around double timewarps are either crazy fast aggro or counterspells. Trust me if you random spin the deck selector you will notice there is alot of combos without counters,but yours does have the best one!!

I have had some luck with land destruction but you kinda need to go first with most decks to be able to keep killing there talrands 4th land or mindstorms second blue.  Sometimes UWD can kill em when they timewarp or jaces font or muse can mill if ya lucky, but you have a very specific combo that apparently beats double timewarps 96percent of the time.  It sounds like they never counter your clones or something? idk

I was also wondering how you dudes talk your teamates into what exact cards to use...Sometimes it seems they won't even let me pick my deck after they do where they think they are better at picking the combo's even...I could just imagine trying to tell em every single card to pick.

I literally went back and played last years last weekend and double jace is still divinationing and other draw cards by the time doubletimewarps could of killed you twice!!   

My bets on that new discard deck spoiling some of the doubletimewarp dudes days, possibly with jace, lilliana, or rakdos!! 



Double timewarps is a gimmick play, you are looking for one of those cards, and the means to either place it under the mirror or copy it for the turn...a lot of other deck combos can outright kill you before that or simply watch you do nothing of notw with your free turns and then resume hitting you in the face. I'm not saying it's a bad gimmick, it can and does win, but that will never be the best. There is no real diversity in the play, you even named the whole pairing double timewarps...



Well it is logical to think that if you get four turns in a row you will win. Now if only that actually worked!

Side note, had a guy warp into mirror earlier while I was MS with electrolyze in hand but he had 2 life and mana for counter open. I wait through three turns when he taps out! So I cast, he pauses for a while... then quits.
Avenger of Zendikar is not game... Got a question as to whether a card without shroud or hexproof is good? Answer is, dies to removal. "Control Slivers"
if I did believe  that you only lost twice to double timewarps 2 out of 50 then I would have to believe that you are so good that if you used it you would never loose.  Although I see you use jace and as I said the only way around double timewarps are either crazy fast aggro or counterspells. Trust me if you random spin the deck selector you will notice there is alot of combos without counters,but yours does have the best one!!

I have had some luck with land destruction but you kinda need to go first with most decks to be able to keep killing there talrands 4th land or mindstorms second blue.  Sometimes UWD can kill em when they timewarp or jaces font or muse can mill if ya lucky, but you have a very specific combo that apparently beats double timewarps 96percent of the time.  It sounds like they never counter your clones or something? idk

I was also wondering how you dudes talk your teamates into what exact cards to use...Sometimes it seems they won't even let me pick my deck after they do where they think they are better at picking the combo's even...I could just imagine trying to tell em every single card to pick.

I literally went back and played last years last weekend and double jace is still divinationing and other draw cards by the time doubletimewarps could of killed you twice!!   

My bets on that new discard deck spoiling some of the doubletimewarp dudes days, possibly with jace, lilliana, or rakdos!! 



Double timewarps is a gimmick play, you are looking for one of those cards, and the means to either place it under the mirror or copy it for the turn...a lot of other deck combos can outright kill you before that or simply watch you do nothing of notw with your free turns and then resume hitting you in the face. I'm not saying it's a bad gimmick, it can and does win, but that will never be the best. There is no real diversity in the play, you even named the whole pairing double timewarps...



Well it is logical to think that if you get four turns in a row you will win. Now if only that actually worked!

Side note, had a guy warp into mirror earlier while I was MS with electrolyze in hand but he had 2 life and mana for counter open. I wait through three turns when he taps out! So I cast, he pauses for a while... then quits.



EXACTLY what I mean. The obnoxious CW player...you sit by three turns while he pisses around, then you make a play that finishes the game in three more seconds and he can't stick around that long...ragequit people, i'm calling it and I will defend if you want to call it 'conceding' in this case. 

I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
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Stevo I agree Jace and Liliana is an extremely synergistic combo and me and my partner are having a great time testing it. My only observation is that whilst Telemin performance and Nightmare incursion are great vs Talrand or some control decks, the cards when one of them is drawn without the other they are not very good and against aggro are way too slow.

Other than that I think we have a handful of differences between each build but essentially run the same list
Bump for this topic!

Also to Trip and Karstien - I've got a control build of Exalted Darkness I run in 2HG with a Golgari deck. The plan being to use tons of removal to clear the way for the big hitters (between the decks we have 21 removal spells, 6 creatures with killing abilities, 3 board wipes and an enchantment that kills attackers!) who are also made unblockable by Spirit Mantle or Mighty Leap or, or virtually so with Rancor and Silent Arbiter. The Arbiter also makes our defence fantastic due to our protection and regenerating blockers, as well as chump creature generators. I use very little in the way of Exalted creatures - only 3 in fact - and even then, they're in purely for the protection element. My side of the board is all about defence. Be interesting to see how different this is from yours (even though both have different intentions)

It's a nice little combo, and effective too, but nothing I'd risk in Ranked. Only 90% optimised on the Golgari side, but we're happy with the Exalted end. Only issue is the mana split is 12 Swamps and 8 Plains, when we'd prefer it either 50/50 or 11/9 in favour of Plains, but no amount of tinkering can achieve that without fundamentally altering the deck or going to 63 cards, which weirdly takes it it 12/9 in favour of Plains (so something we may consider)

/- Lockout/Knockout

Show
- Exalted Darkness (60)


- Sepulchral Strength (61)
[deck]4 Evolving Wilds
2 Rancor
2 Scute Mob
2 Blood Artist
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Go for the Throat
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Yavimaya Elder
1 Consuming Vapors
2 Creakwood Liege
1 Damnation
1 Defense of the Heart
2 Master of the Wild Hunt
2 Mortivore
2 Sewer Nemesis
1 Asceticism
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
2 Lord of Extinction
2 Spiritmonger
1 Gleancrawler[/deck]


The only other useful cards I would consider for Exalted would be to add 2 x Knight of Infamy as it would take me to 63 cards and sort the mana ratio out. As you can then go to 64 without another land being added, It'd be a toss-up between Angel of Despair (another Vindicate, but expensive just for that utility - the 5/5 body is unimportant to me), Mark of Asylum (usless except against a few decks, and they're the ones we don't really have too much fear from) and Seize the Initiative (nice little combat trick, not hugely impressive otherwise for what we do, so often a dead draw). Everything else is pretty much trash in terms of our strategy as it relies on the Exalted mechanic, and I barely ever attack, never mind attack alone. That's Golgari's job.

The Knights would go in for the protection element again. White decks and removal aren't as scary as Black ones, so they are of reduced use there, and can't combo with Spirit Mantle, but alternately they work better with the Ring of Xathrid than the the white Knights do, so are acceptable inclusions.

Also added this to my combo list upthread, as like the infinite turn one, we use it Player now and again, but keep the other two for Ranked.

Be interested in some feedback if anyone wants to try this out (as well as my Blue/Black one) Both are pretty innovative in the sense that they do things I haven't seen anyone else really do online. The Red/Black and Infinite turns ones are pretty common though and tend to build themselves to a degree.



Good to see you finally dipping your toe in the sea of Exalted Darkness, come on in, the water is fabulous! Seriously, this is my favorite deck for every format, and I use the same build for both 2HG and 1v1 with fantastic results, something you can't really do with other decks. Our tactic is a little different from yours, yes, because you are using golgari to attack, (probably with a rancor mainly, to force damage past a single blocker), where I do most of it myself with my exalted. I don't have too many exalted creatures myself, and only choose those that can pull double duty doing something else. I'm surprised to see no duty-bound dead in your own build though, if you are going for defence you could do far worse. The ring of xathrid is cool, but the dead are creatures that can block alone and keep you alive for worship purposes, until you have the mana spare to regenerate them. And mighty leap...I added it in once because the thought of a skeleton jumping up to block a demigod so we could win made us laugh, but never found much use for it. All in all, I do like the build though, and that you are trying the unorthodox, which is what we like to do. 

Our strategy relies on our strong defence, from both of us, until we can squeeze them out in the late game. We both have power later on, with not much being able to stop us, and with counters, banks and early kill cards, the early game is easy to get through too. I would be happy to locate and post our builds if you like, I think they were around here with the strategy write up somewhere. 

For yours, those two knights should be your first priority really, pro-white isn't as useful as black in general, but there are more decks with white in them than any other colour. A blocker against all those white creatures, and one that just won't die is always welcome. And maybe throw in the vulturous zombies for SS or the aven squires for ED. The reason being there is actually a lot of flying hexproof and shroud these days, and you have only the divinity of pride in the air. They have a large enough target anyway, so more fliers will help with your defence. Other than that, I can see it being reasonable. 

I am Blue/White
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Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
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Show

erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">


"Tripp's Crosswinds" library


for Crosswinds (Talrand): 36 picks, 61 cards


erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~A9tt70~~Tripp's Crosswinds~~3=axpYl~~2=kOBAk~~3Bo4Bxd~~2?rQfQL~~2BWnSEu~~3AnIAXI~~1?d66sE~~2?frNYl~~2=vN?cG~~2B4tSif~~2=Gi0XO~~1BRCg=9~~1?OVR3h~~1?io1W4~~1ATkvde~~1=4Y6DM~~2A2Aipb~~1=Gi4hy~~1BCFj6X~~1=t0uW0~~1B3k6TY~~1BvWm?I~~))))))))



erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid #456b82; border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">


 Creature 




   cost  
■■
 Azure Mage 
 2/1 
  



■■■
 Fog Bank 
 0/2 
  




 Spiketail Hatchling 
 1/1 
  




   cost  
■■
 Archaeomancer 
 1/2 
  




 Talrand, Sky Summoner 
 2/2 
  




 Spell 




   cost  
■■■
 Sleight of Hand 

  




   cost  
■■
 Disperse 

  



■■
 Mana Leak 

  




 Twincast 

  




   cost  

 Call to Mind 

  



■■
 Cancel 

  




 Keep Watch 

  



■■
 Repulse 

  




   cost  
■■■
 Rite of Replication 

  




   cost  

 Bribery 

  




 Followed Footsteps 

  




 Panoptic Mirror 

  




 Tidings 

  




 Time Reversal 

  



■■
 Time Warp 

  




   cost  

 Flow of Ideas 

  




   cost  
■■
 Blatant Thievery 

  






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Show

erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">


"Karstien's ED build" library


for Exalted Darkness (Nefarox): 41 picks, 61 cards


erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~BumJhH~~Karstien's ED build~~3Ad1MD?~~2??ORf9~~2?HV0wI~~1A48bzK~~2?FIiaa~~2AXqopE~~2BRFN9s~~2Bpq1Ux~~3?JDdWS~~2B?lYwj~~2=p3Flq~~3AiuJ0s~~3=WKXnG~~1A0enQ7~~1AokkWi~~1ARAVrV~~1B2Ay96~~2?NLvWe~~2==WM18~~1BlYW0C~~1A2QNLv~~1AE1qCR~~1A4BqIx~~))))))))



erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid #664114; border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">


 Exalted 




   cost  
■■■
 Duty-Bound Dead 
 0/2 
  




   cost  
■■
 Aven Squire 
 1/1 
  



■■■
 Knight of Glory 
 2/1 
  



■■
 Knight of Infamy 
 2/1 
  




   cost  

 Sublime Archangel 
 4/3 
  




   cost  

 Battlegrace Angel 
 4/4 
  




 Creatures 




   cost  
■■
 Darklit Gargoyle 
 1/2 
  




   cost  
■■
 Silent Arbiter 
 1/5 
  




   cost  
■■
 Divinity of Pride 
 4/4 
 ()()()()(




   cost  

 Debtors' Knell 

 ()()(




 Evasion 




   cost  
■■
 Whispersilk Cloak 

  




 Removal 




   cost  
■■
 Doom Blade 

  



■■
 Pacifism 

  




   cost  

 Mortify 

  




 Royal Assassin 
 1/1 
  



■■■
 Unmake 

 ()()(



■■
 Vindicate 

  




   cost  
■■
 Deathbringer Liege 
 3/4 
 ()()(




 Utility 




   cost  
■■■
 Evolving Wilds 

  




   cost  

 Demonic Tutor 

  




   cost  

 No Mercy 

  




 Worship 

  




 [/m]()[m]  cost  

 Sigil of Distinction 

 [/m]()[m






erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>








Okay, just copy/pasted this, because I don't want to write it again, and this is the new 2HG thread. I know Tripp's CW has changed a little, so he will have to let me know and I will update. Above you will see our decklists, though on occasion they are known to change. An example would be that in some cases Tripp will take out the Sleight of Hand for the Curiosity and another card of his choosing, as generally the draw suits us. He reversed it because we don't always use theese two decks, and that won't work as well when I switch to burn. 

Usually, it will start with me stalling while he get's set up. I'll kill/pacify creatures played by the opponent, distract them with low cost creatures of my own that swing in, and he will see what he has to play with after a few mana drops. Timewarp will be used to put us ahead in drops usually, we don't go for the combo even when we have the Panoptic Mirror in hand with it, unless we are against some obnoxious players who deserve it. Around land drop 5, we will most likely have board control due to both my killing and his counter/bouncing to keep the other side clear. By this time the opposition will be playing threats, which is the biggest mistake they could possibly do. While we can't claim much graveyard manipulaton, not of creatures at least barring my Debtors' Knell, any that hit the field will be used against them via Rite of Replication or Followed Footsteps. At least one of these will most likely be in Tripps hand by this time, since he spends half the damn match drawing all his cards unless we are playing mill. And yes, this does make me slightly jealous. 

Once my Silent Arbiter hits the field, multiple copies will usually be made unless we aren't worried about the other decks' removal, or I have another in hand, Debtors' Knell on the field. Once it is locked in with a whispersilk cloak, that usually spells GG. Tripp will keep fog banks down to block the one creature they can swing with, and I can slide through the defences with the cloak or fly over the top with my Aven Squire, Battlegrace Angel, Sublime Archangel or Divinity of Pride. If my Royal Assassin decides to fly to my hand, all the better, as it completely shuts almost any creature in the game down when the arbiter is in the field. 

Last, but certainly not least is my personal favorite card in the game, Deathbringer Liege. With all the protection Tripp can provide with his counters, and even bounces, once I get him down, we can kill almost every creature than hit's the board without any problems, using the two for one ability provoded by many of the black/white cards. We can tap to swing through, we can kill anything they try to swing with, and if the worst happens and he dies, I have another copy somewhere, and the knell if the game goes on long enough. 

Basically, we play board control to the fullest. We take extra turns when we can, we kill anything that moves, and stall anything we can't kill with regenerating Duty-bound Dead, Fog Bank. Our big threats go unbothered due to Cancel and Whispersilk Cloak, and we have multiple copies of the two biggest threats in my deck. Any threat the opposition plays gets copied several times and then killed/exiled, so we don't have to deal with them. If they don't draw the biggest threat they have in time, Tripp will Bribery it before making the copies. If he does this, I will keep a card back to kill it in response to bounce. When they do manage to get something scary, let's not forget that he has Blatant Thievery too, which has won many a game. Panoptic Mirror is a fun toy to play with, which will promote panic and give us a good chuckle as it gets destroyed, when it isn't giving us 5 bombs every turn. Our late game is stronger than any other combo in my opinion, and we have enough stall and kill to get there. Sometimes it doesn't even last long enough, since pro black and pro white can be nightmare drops for anybody to deal with. 

With this combo we have lifegain; removal; bounce; counter; tutor; swinging power; graveyard manipulation; protection from black and white; exile; artifact and enchantment control; hexproof; unblockable creatures; the ability to use any almost any of the opponent's bombs against them and the ability to reduce them to swinging with one creature per turn, right into a fog bank or a duty bound dead. And we only need some of it per game to win. Will somebody please explain to me how any of this makes Exalted Darkness a bad 2hg deck? Because I don't see it. The only thing it has against it is swinging with one a turn, and that benefits Crosswinds until it has copies of the bombs. Finally, and only finally because it isn't a usual play, I can bring any of these cards out of my deck if i'm lucky enough to draw my Demonic Tutor. When we have the chance, which is very rare, Tripp will Twincast, giving us exactly what we need. Even if it's more mana. If I have my knell, I have been known to resurect one of his dead Archaeomancer copies every turn to get my tutor or a kill back, and then swing with it, followed by a swift assassin based death. Situational, but so is removing all creatures and then milling. 


I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
Karstien I think thats roughly accurate I'd have to double check to make sure though. 

Tbh Stevo I think we spent just as much time building and tweaking our combo as you did yours so we can be a little competitive when peple tell us our combo doesn't work. 


As for these two being your easier matches, aren't you forced to play two randoms who have a two person mentality instead of working together? Karstien and I have gotten to the point where we practically don't have to speak to communicate what we are doing next. Wish we could play our build against yours somehow.


As for play testing your combo I'd be forced to play golgari which makes me sad because I hate that deck, it has WAY to much hype. But of course I'm an advocate of MS so what do I know?
Avenger of Zendikar is not game... Got a question as to whether a card without shroud or hexproof is good? Answer is, dies to removal. "Control Slivers"
Karstien I think thats roughly accurate I'd have to double check to make sure though. 

Tbh Stevo I think we spent just as much time building and tweaking our combo as you did yours so we can be a little competitive when peple tell us our combo doesn't work. 


As for these two being your easier matches, aren't you forced to play two randoms who have a two person mentality instead of working together? Karstien and I have gotten to the point where we practically don't have to speak to communicate what we are doing next. Wish we could play our build against yours somehow.


As for play testing your combo I'd be forced to play golgari which makes me sad because I hate that deck, it has WAY to much hype. But of course I'm an advocate of MS so what do I know?



If he want's it tested, I would run the SS so I don't have to mess with my build actually. I agree with Tripp that it is a lot harder playing two players who know what they are doing, especially with this build, since it's the little interactions that make a big difference. 

The archaomancer is always one of my first targets, to get back some of my control, but it depends on the other deck too. Anything with discard is a nice one to pick up and repeatedly kill and raise again, or any etb effects really. Bringing back a Spiketail Hatchling so Tripp can replicate 5 times is often a surprise gamewinner in itself, since he usually holds a counter anyway. Vs your blue/black build, or any build with those two, it's only really the mill we worry about. I have the kill for all the creatures, so Tripp needs to only counter the heavy mill plays, which you don't really run, or the sweepers. The rest is easy enough to handle if you play slow, especially if I drag out a pro-black knight or three. It's all about not over-extending really. It is a pity there is no cross-platform play, would love to test the builds against each other. 
I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
Karstien I think thats roughly accurate I'd have to double check to make sure though. 

Tbh Stevo I think we spent just as much time building and tweaking our combo as you did yours so we can be a little competitive when peple tell us our combo doesn't work. 


As for these two being your easier matches, aren't you forced to play two randoms who have a two person mentality instead of working together? Karstien and I have gotten to the point where we practically don't have to speak to communicate what we are doing next. Wish we could play our build against yours somehow.


As for play testing your combo I'd be forced to play golgari which makes me sad because I hate that deck, it has WAY to much hype. But of course I'm an advocate of MS so what do I know?





CHARGE!

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Stevo you should join the 2HG ladder, the decks are quite competitive.
I like Ancient Wilds and a non mill (except for cards that draw you a card) Dream Puppets. Mid sized creatures and plenty of bounce shenanigans in both decks. 
The iPhone is perfect for people who want an easy to use, multifunction device. Android is a little more user intensive, but can do anything that iOS can do. DoTP developers, give us Duels 2014 on Android! My nexus 7/Galaxy Note 2 is easily capable of handling it if my 4 year old gateway laptop can.
Stevo you should join the 2HG ladder, the decks are quite competitive.


I don't really have the patience for a league system, but am happy to play a few games if anyone wants to challenge me. Depends if my partner is on of course.

Karstien - You could always get someone to play my combo versus yours if you know anyone good? It requires a lot of thought, so you'd need someone good. I still stick by it, as you do yours I guess. Yes you can counter our answers, but we can also counter yours, and if we get a Nightmare Incursion through (remove 3x Rites, 2x Warps, 1x Mirror - minimum) then that's pretty much game over. Chancellor with a Rite in the graveyard? Game over. Milled? (of which we may not have much, but we have the best) Game over. Sword of Body and mind? Close to a game over.

Would be interested to see a series of matches with these decks with good players.




I would try my OD in a OD/DP with Karstien and Tripp but my friends who run DP and run it well run Mill and not the control version.
I also run a speed mill version and am want to change my cut until we get multiple save spots in Deck Manager.
Sucks as the times I get to play against them is when I find them in a custom match and all I have to play with is a random.
Seems the 4th spot in 2hg is broken if you send an invite, so randoms seem the only thing to load.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Stevo you should join the 2HG ladder, the decks are quite competitive.


I don't really have the patience for a league system, but am happy to play a few games if anyone wants to challenge me. Depends if my partner is on of course.

Karstien - You could always get someone to play my combo versus yours if you know anyone good? It requires a lot of thought, so you'd need someone good. I still stick by it, as you do yours I guess. Yes you can counter our answers, but we can also counter yours, and if we get a Nightmare Incursion through (remove 3x Rites, 2x Warps, 1x Mirror - minimum) then that's pretty much game over. Chancellor with a Rite in the graveyard? Game over. Milled? (of which we may not have much, but we have the best) Game over. Sword of Body and mind? Close to a game over.

Would be interested to see a series of matches with these decks with good players.



You're right on that, we could go countering each other all day with this. Ecample would be any kill spell or counter stops the chancellor play, time reversal is great for mill...we will need to actually test it, and even so i'll always stand by our build, we have played it for so long now, against every deck combo possible. Devilwuster can attest to it's effectiveness, though he has only played us with a random partner, so would be good if we had another with him. And you know that you can invite us anytime when you have a partner on devil, always have fun games and a good chat. 

I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
I have been pondering on several builds. This is my latest one:

Show

erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">


"Graveyard" library


for Sepulchral Strength (Golgari): 40 picks, 60 cards


erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~B72yFn~~Graveyard~~3=IS40U~~2=JyfVM~~2AYbc44~~2BEoJ0C~~3AX76cu~~2=efQW=~~2AF9Z=s~~2AsJCuI~~4?JDdWS~~2=OP1bK~~4AriHbV~~2?qwIl9~~2=RvKxl~~2BYFTtn~~2BJjDHQ~~1BirVSK~~1=NNVWi~~1Az8nYT~~1A2XD3A~~))))))))



erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid #005049; border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">


   cost  




 Spell 
■■■■
 Evolving Wilds 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Scute Mob 
 1/1 
  




 Spell 
■■
 Rancor 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Blood Artist 
 0/1 
  



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 Viridian Emissary 
 2/1 
  




 Spell 
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 Diabolic Edict 

  



■■■■
 Go for the Throat 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■■
 Troll Ascetic 
 3/2 
  




 Spell 
■■
 Maelstrom Pulse 

  



■■
 Pernicious Deed 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Mortivore 
 */* 
  



■■
 Oracle of Mul Daya 
 2/2 
  



■■
 Sewer Nemesis 
 */* 
  




 Spell 

 Consuming Vapors 

  




 Damnation 

  




   cost  




 Creature 

 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief 
 4/4 
  



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 Lord of Extinction 
 */* 
  



■■■
 Vulturous Zombie 
 3/3 
  




 Spell 

 Asceticism 

  






erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>



erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">


"Suicide Turbo-Mill" library


for Dream Puppets (Jace): 36 picks, 61 cards


erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~?8rRgf~~Suicide Turbo-Mill~~4=22Z4u~~2AfFoD9~~3AR=f?U~~2Bp=?bm~~2BSl1Cm~~2AV2Sqn~~2A2OmMm~~2BgrlzF~~2=i6ZxG~~2AXVHK2~~2AV4ifp~~3Bv9soo~~1AM7rMq~~3AFEDE5~~2?h9Nu1~~1Ajlddj~~1BcvqPe~~))))))))



erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid #4aafdd; border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">


   cost  




 Creature 
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 Hedron Crab 
 0/2 
  



■■■■
 Jace's Phantasm 
 1/1 
  




 Spell 
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 Thought Scour 

  



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 Tome Scour 

  



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 Unsummon 

  



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 Visions of Beyond 

  




   cost  




 Spell 
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 Counterspell 

  



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 Howling Mine 

  



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 Into the Roil 

  



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 Jace's Erasure 

  



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 Mind Sculpt 

  




   cost  




 Spell 

 Dream Fracture 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■■
 Dreamborn Muse 
 2/2 
  




 Spell 
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 Font of Mythos 

  




 Wheel and Deal 

  




   cost  




 Spell 

 Archive Trap 

  




 [/m]()[m]  cost  




 Spell 
■■
 Prosperity 

 [/m]()[m] 






erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>





This is hypotetical and I have not gotten a chance to actually run them both together yet but its straight forward. Jace's turbo mill fuels the, Mortivore, Sewer Nemesis, Lord of Extinction and Vulturous Zombie. The Oracle of Mul Daya helps clear up the mana flood provided by the Howling Mine, Font of Mythos and Prosperity while helping to ramp up and place more threats on the board. Golgary also cleans all the threats for Jace with its removal and Jace counter spells any other bombs. I need to get someone to run these two together now....
Question for all of the regular 2HG players here - is Celestial Light + Dream Puppets still considered bad form?  I know lots of people here (justifiably) raged against that combo before the Serra Ascendant was fixed.  I rarely see this combo played against me, but the other day I decided I'd play DP for a change and my partner immediately switched to CL, so I was curious what people's thoughts were about it.  

To me, DP seems very powerful in 2HG with almost every other deck and the CL pairing (post-fix) isn't a huge advantage over or even a huge difference from a DP+OD or DP+ED pairing, or even DP(turbo mill)+BF.  But I've played against the combo so rarely that I don't really have a good feel for it.