Vanguard off-hand weapon, staff of the serpent, and shapechanging druid

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Is it legal for my druid in beast form to receive the additional vanguard off-hand weapon while using a staff implement of the serpent to make a Savage Rend charge attack?

I'm also trained to use the vanguard weapon as an implement.


Vanguard WeaponLevel 3+ Uncommon

Favored by soldiers of the frontline, this weapon makes any charge formidable.
































Lvl 3+1680 gpLvl 18+485,000 gp
Lvl 8+23,400 gpLvl 23+5425,000 gp
Lvl 13+317,000 gpLvl 28+62,125,000 gp

Weapon: Any melee


Enhancement Bonus: attack rolls and damage rolls


Critical: +1d8 damage per plus


Property


Deal +1d8 damage on any successful charge.


Power Daily (Minor Action)


Use this power when you make a charge attack. If you hit with your charge attack, all allies within 10 squares of you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and gain your Charisma bonus as a bonus to damage rolls until the start of your next turn.



Wild Shape

You assume an aspect of the Primal Beast or return to your humanoid form.


At-Will        Polymorph, Primal
Minor Action      Personal


Effect: You change from your humanoid form to beast form or vice versa. When you change from beast form back to your humanoid form, you can shift 1 square. While you are in beast form, you can’t use weapon or implement attack powers that lack the beast form keyword, although you can sustain such powers.
    You choose a specific form whenever you use wild shape to change into beast form. The beast form is your size, resembles a natural beast or a fey beast, and normally doesn't change your game statistics. Your equipment becomes part of your beast form, but you drop anything you are holding, except implements you can use. You continue to gain the benefits of the equipment you wear, except a shield.
    You can use the properties and the powers of implements as well as magic items that you wear, but not the properties or the powers of weapons or the powers of wondrous items. While equipment is part of your beast form, it cannot be removed, and anything in a container that is part of your beast form is inaccessible.


Special: You can use this power once per round.

To all that is good and worthwhile.

No, as per the rules for magic enchantments for weapons, in order to get a benefit that specifically applies only on an attack you have to actually attack with it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
No, as per the rules for magic enchantments for weapons, in order to get a benefit that specifically applies only on an attack you have to actually attack with it.

That rule only applies to weapon attacks, actually....
Hrm.  I had thought it applied to weapons, and not weapon attacks.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It is to Weapons in general. The mention of "weapon attacks" in the relevant rule is as an example which misquotes the property of the Cunning Weapon as only applying to weapon powers.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
So, can I tack on the extra damage from the vanguard weapon when I attack using an implement?

To all that is good and worthwhile.

Not if you not wielding the Vanguard Weapon to make the attack.

AV 56 Weapon Properties: Many weapons have properties that provide a constant benefit. To gain the benefit of a weapon’s property, you must be wielding the weapon. Unless specified otherwise, a property affects only the weapon to which it’s attached. For example, a +2 cunning dagger, which bestows a –2 penalty to an enemy’s saving throws against your weapon powers, affects only powers that are delivered using that weapon. You couldn’t hold the weapon in your off-hand and gain the benefit of the property on powers delivered using a main weapon.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

So here's my setup:
1) I'm a druid in beast form making an "implement" keyword attack power, savage rend.
2) I have a staff of the serpent in main hand and vanguard dagger in my off-hand. I'm proficient in using both as an implement and as a weapon.


Weapons as Implements and Vice Versa

Some adventurers have the ability to use a weapon as an implement or an implement as a weapon, and some magic items grant this ability. For example, the holy avenger weapon can be used as a holy symbol, which is a type of implement. The following rules govern such uses.
Using a Weapon as an Implement: If an adventurer is able to use a weapon as an implement, the weapon works like a normal implement, but the adventurer uses neither the weapon’s proficiency bonus nor its nonmagical weapon properties with his or her implement powers. For example, if a weapon has the high crit property, that property does not work with implement powers if the weapon can be used as an implement.
When an adventurer uses a magic version of the weapon as an implement, he or she can use the magic weapon’s enhancement bonus, critical hit effects, properties, and powers. However, some magic weapons have properties and powers that work only with weapon powers. Also, a weapon’s range and damage dice are usually irrelevant to an implement power, since such a power has its own range and damage expression.
Using an Implement as a Weapon: Most implements cannot be used as weapons, but a few, such as staffs, are expressly usable as both implements and weapons. When an adventurer wields such an implement as a weapon, follow the normal rules for using a weapon.
When an adventurer uses a magic version of the implement as a weapon, he or she can use the magic implement’s enhancement bonus and critical hit effects. To use the implement’s properties and powers, the adventurer must have proficiency with the implement. Also, some magic implements have properties and powers that work only with implement powers.

Published in Rules Compendium, page(s) 275.

To all that is good and worthwhile.

Unless Vanguard specifies Weapon attacks, which it doesn't IIRC, if you're using it AS an implement, you get the extra d8.  If you're using your staff as an implement, you don't.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
The solution for which is to simply get a vanguard staff, but then you don't get Staff of the Serpent.

Bottom line:  you can't double-dip.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Thank you, one and all. Just wanted to make sure my character is legitimate. It's awesome when the D&D sages offer their advice. Plaguescarred, Mand12, thespaceinvader, and Alcestis.

To all that is good and worthwhile.

You mention the person that was wrong, and not me?! :p
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Sorry, Zathris. I just happen to know Mand12 and Plaguescarred who are always offering their advice on the forums. Same goes for the other two. But thank you, too for your input, Zathris. I consider Plaguescarred's ruling as law ... usually.

To all that is good and worthwhile.

No worries we all do mistakes, me first. Wink

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter