Help with Green Win Conditions.

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This deck is mainly used for casual but I'd like to keep it Standard legal.  It will mainly be 1vs1, against my bro and randoms at our local FNM.  I'm looking to add a few more win conditions because right now all it does is damage to player.  The main hitter being Elderscale Wurm with Kitesail.  The spiders, slime, and sorceries are for removal(I really want to keep it mono-green).  As it stands, I'm about 50/50 with W/L against my Bro's White Soldier Deck.  He dominates the early game with first strike and tokens, but if I can hold on and get draws and land out I usually come out bigger.  What I don't like is the fact that I am relying way to much on Elderscale Wurm to survive until my win condition.

3 Arbor Elf
3 Elvish Visionary
3 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Deadly Recluse
4 Elderscale Wurm
2 Silklash Spider
4 Roaring Primadox
2 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
4 Prey Upon
4 Revive
2 Predatory Rampage
2 Kitesail
22 Forest

I thought about adding a 1 of Elixir of Immortality and Sands of Delerium.  Very slow, but if I can stall with Elderscale Wurm and mana ramp with Gatecreeper Vine and Roaring Primadox, I could mill for 22 cards.  Not very practical, but I'm fairly new at deck building and not sure what to add for efficiency.

Any help and suggestions would be appreciated.  Preferably help with early game and win conditions.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
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maybe a Conjurer's Closet so you can flicker your Thragtusk and get lots of 3/3 tokens. or flicker your elvish visionary to draw or your gatecreeper to search for land, or your slime to keep destoying thier lands/enchantments/artifacts, as you see i am a fan of flickering and the closet isnt color restricted like Cloudshift.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
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That definately adds to the theme I'm going for.  And it's affordable.  I could drop a revive and prey upon for 2 Conjurer's Closet.  But I'm still looking to step up my adaptability.  I've had late game turns that left me with plenty of untapped land just sitting there being useless.  The Sands of Delirium would give that extra mana a use, but green is awkward at milling.  Any suggestions on using up the unused land?
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
While I absoutely love Primordial Hydra he's got a spot in my Green/Black Counters deck(which tends to be more successful).  The Champion of Lambholt would combo well with all the flickering going on.  I've used Primal Surge in M:TG - Duels of the Planeswalkers and that card is hilarious.  A permanent only deck that says "Welcome to the Jungle" like no other.  I guess I'm gonna have to make a decision on whether to play on green's strengths or splash for some early game threats.

Thanks for the suggestions.  And give Peppermint Larry my regards. Wink
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
to help you ramp faster you should use cards that put an extra land onto the battlefield ech turn like solemn simulacrum and rampant growth
Haha Thanks! I will tell my husband you say hi
I am glad to have helped
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
I'm pretty happy using Gatecreeper Vine for ramp. He's a turn 2 body that combo's with Arbor Elf for a turn 3 Roaring Primadox.  I'm not sure I want to add any sorceries that aren't a Win Condition.  This is the problem I keep running into with this deck.  I need another way to win other than damage to a player.

Scenario I had the other day.  My Green facing a Mono-Blue Talrand deck.  By turn 8 or 9 I had an Elderscale Wurm out and my opponent had Switcheroo'ed my first Elderscale Wurm.  We're both sitting at 7 health waiting for some kind of removal to be drawn.  Predatory Rampage and a Deadly Recluse finally took out my stolen wurm and I won the game.

The problem I had with this game was that I HAD to damage my opponents life points to win, my opponent on the other hand could have milled me out if it took much longer.

I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
Well, green is good at bashing the opponent with creatures, so you should probably concentrate on that. One suggestion I would make would be to replace the Kitesails with Rancor. Ramp is a good idea when using green, but I don't think Gatecreeper Vine is the right choice for mono green. Dawntreader Elk Puts the land into play and is pretty good with a rancor too.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.  I really appreciate it.  Gonna have to do some playtests with my bro.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
I'm pretty happy using Gatecreeper Vine for ramp. He's a turn 2 body that combo's with Arbor Elf for a turn 3 Roaring Primadox.  I'm not sure I want to add any sorceries that aren't a Win Condition.  This is the problem I keep running into with this deck.  I need another way to win other than damage to a player.

Scenario I had the other day.  My Green facing a Mono-Blue Talrand deck.  By turn 8 or 9 I had an Elderscale Wurm out and my opponent had Switcheroo'ed my first Elderscale Wurm.  We're both sitting at 7 health waiting for some kind of removal to be drawn.  Predatory Rampage and a Deadly Recluse finally took out my stolen wurm and I won the game.

The problem I had with this game was that I HAD to damage my opponents life points to win, my opponent on the other hand could have milled me out if it took much longer.




It's ok to have a deck that focuses on reducing your opponent's life points to zero without another win condition. Usually adding a mill win con or something else will just make the deck worse without actually netting you any extra wins.

gatecreeper vine doesn't ramp. Ramp is another way of saying acceleration (fast mana). Because he merely puts the land into your hand gatecreeper vine is mana fixing but not ramp.


Win condition is the same as saying "way of winning".Your win conditions are usually something like 1.) creatures dealing damage.... 2.) spells which deal damage... 3.) spells or permanants which win the game like battle of wits or barren glory.... 4.) decking the opponent like turbofog or mill decklists.

If you like winning with elderscale wurm then I would add more ramp as others have mentioned. Usually I don't like to suggest ranger's path but in a deck focused around hardcasting elderscale wurm I think this card could have a spot.
Don't be too smart to have fun
Thanks for the explanation on ramp.  It makes sense, now I get why Dawntreader Elk and Rampant Growth were suggested over Gatecreeper Vine.

Hmm, so if I drop the 3 Vines and the 2 Kitesails.  I could add 1 arbor elf, 2 rangers path, and 2 of another creature.  Preferably the Elk.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
sands of delirium is probably your best bet altho door to nothingness is currently standard...


but what youre talking about is adding cards that make youur deck perform worse to deal with situations that almost never happen - not a good idea. in the scenario you describe you would be better off with removal than an off strategy backup.


as for your deck. it seems very heavy on bad green removal. Id focus the deck on what green does well ie agro (and ramp) - alternatively make it BG and get some good black removal.



silklash seems more of a sideboard card.

Instead of diluting your deck's focus by adding in alternate win cons, I would focus on making your current strategy fast and reliable. If you want to go the elderscale wurm route, you will need some ramp and tutors.

Ramp:
Arbor Elf
Avacyn's Pilgrim - the fact that he taps for :W: is irrelevant most of the time, hes just arbor elf 5-8.
Dawntreader Elk
Ranger's Path - Wouldn't go with 4 of this, probably 2 instead.

Tutoring:
Mwonvuli Beast Tracker - Finds elderscale, along with some of your "removal" creatures like Acidic Slime or Deadly Recluse.
Elvish Visionary - While not a tutor, he gives you card draw and a warm body, which is relevant.
Tracker's Instinct - While you won't be able to flash it back, the initial effect gives you more ways to find what you need.

Win-cons:
Elderscale Wurm - The big daddy win-con.
Rubbleback Rhino - I like him as a 1-of that beast tracker can find if your opponent is sporting a lot of removal. The 4-Toughness is extremely relevant. Suit him up with Rancor and watch your opponent squirm.

Evasion:
Rancor - Green uses the word "evasion" loosely. Rancor makes even your lowly elves into potential threats.
Predatory Rampage - A host of mana-dorks and this things can pull wins out of nowhere. 

Other Goodies: None of these are crucial to the deck, but provide other options that work well aside the Elderscale Win-Con.
Acidic Slime - Can be found by Beast-Tracker.
Deadly Recluse - Same.
Slime Molding - Its a variable creature. Great use for lots of mana late game, but can provide a body early game.
Strangleroot Geist - Pairs very well with rancor.


Hope that helps.
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.  I'm gonna describe our kitchen table battles in a little more detail.  My younger brother and I have around 13 decks that we share(I bought).  We have 5 mono-color decks based on the 2013 intro decks, the 5 RTR decks, the Izzet vs Golgari dual decks, and Repeat Performance 2013 Event deck.

Now we've played and remade and tweaked most of them(kept the dual decks unaltered).  And it's pretty clear to us which ones outshine the others.  My brother's White soldier deck, a Mono Black Exalted/Tormented Soul that I made, and a Red Krenko goblin swarm deck all seem to come out on top.  I've made a Golgari deck and an Azorius deck that do really well.  The rest are all pretty much on level terrain.  (All based on duals between me and my brother)

What I've been trying to do lately is get the Mono-Green deck up to par with the Golgari and Azorius decks.  My first mistake was trying to make a Green deck that could hate on the mono-white.  Short answer, it didn't work and that's not really what I was trying to accomplish anyway.  So the deck I first posted is what I was able to make that does "OK" at the kitchen table.

So if anybody has a Mono-Green deck that uses mostly 2013 Core and RTR cards, I'd like to have a look at it.  Or if anbody has tips on how to play Green more effectively I'd like to hear it.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
Greens major draw can be categorized as big creature or big mana. The two sorta go hand and hand and many green decks will include green only for mana or mana fixing.

If you are going to make a pure green deck that you intend to win with, then you will want either the buffed weenie horde. Or ramp into big trampler.

You can do both. Many small green weenies tap for mana. This means you use them for mana to summon a big creature and to eat face with an overrun type effect. Such decks have no middle, they use middle turns to either ramp into a phatty or to summon multiple weenies.

Standard only, m13 only, cuts out more then 95% of the card base. Do not use that restriction unless you really need to. Many old commons and uncommons and even some useful rares are dirt cheap.

4 arbor elf
4 llanowar elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Joraga Treespeaker
4 elvish archdruid
4 Craterhoof Behemoth

4 rancor
4 overgrowth
3 overrun
1 mana bloom

24 forest

Would be an example of the archetype.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
Thanks for all the help.  I added more "Ramp" and got rid of the bad removal.  Here's my second attempt.

4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elderscale Wurm
4 Roaring Primadox
2 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Rancor
3 Ranger's Path
4 Predatory Rampage
24 Forest

I know it's not a "Zomg! Winner", but it's doing fairly well against our other decks(my goal).  The ramp helps a lot, and as long as I stay aggressive with getting creatures out it can push to a win.  I still hate removal   And the Garruk is there just for funs.

As for buying cards before 2013 core, I will definately make a "Modern Deck".  But I want to figure out what playstyle and color/s I enjoy most.  Then I'll put my money into making something that can hold it's own at our local store.

And again thanks to everybody for the help and suggestions.
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
Thanks for all the help.  I added more "Ramp" and got rid of the bad removal.  Here's my second attempt.

4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elderscale Wurm
4 Roaring Primadox
2 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Rancor
3 Ranger's Path
4 Predatory Rampage
24 Forest

I know it's not a "Zomg! Winner", but it's doing fairly well against our other decks(my goal).  The ramp helps a lot, and as long as I stay aggressive with getting creatures out it can push to a win.  I still hate removal   And the Garruk is there just for funs.

As for buying cards before 2013 core, I will definately make a "Modern Deck".  But I want to figure out what playstyle and color/s I enjoy most.  Then I'll put my money into making something that can hold it's own at our local store.

And again thanks to everybody for the help and suggestions.



A couple of years ago there was a decklist similar to this one that was capable of winning standard tournaments. If you want to improve it make the focus on resolving overrun for turn 4 or turn 5 wins and remove the elderscale wurm's, thragtusk's and roaring primadox's. With some redundancy you could regularly get games like this T1 forest arbor elf T2 forest elvish archdruid T3 forest llanowar elves, 2x any random 2CMC elf such as elvish visionary T4 predatory rampage attack for 25
Don't be too smart to have fun