Warforged, Thri Kreen, and Changelings in the PHB?

I hear a lot of words and noise about this system being universal and all inclusive for D&D players, but from what I've so far all inclusive seems to mean "You are welcome to play, but it has to be our way." That doesn't seem right. Why is it that the only type of gaming being included in Next seems to be things that fit into Forgotten Realms and nothing else?

People like to play other settings too, why not include support in the PHB for settings other than Forgotten Realms, like Dark Sun and Eberron? Thri Kreen, Warforged, and Changelings are fantasy enough that they would fit right into the core system and I feel that it would go a long way to convincing people that WotC is serious when it talks about including D&D players and not just ones who play Forgotten Realms.

Thank you for your time.
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
While I agree that that would be awesome, I don't think that it's going to happen. The most realistic thing to hope for in the PHB is that it will contain every race that has been in a PHB1, which would be identical to what they've said they're doing with classes. This does mean some more exotic races like Dragonborn, but races like Warforged will likely have to wait.

Waiting isn't all bad, though! See, waiting means that they have more time to hammer out the kinks in the system before they get to tackling those races, which may actually be a good thing for races that are supposed to be more complex like the ones that you mention. The races and classes in the PHB will likely have the most basic sorts of features, which means that they'll need to get more creative later on to make newer options really stand out. For races as complex as Thri-Kreen, Warforged, and Changeling? I'll gladly wait for a little while longer.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
they're starting 5e's life with a huge focus on FR, but they've said they plan to give other settings the same in-depth treatment. so you'll get all of this stuff eventually, but you'll have to be patient.
Please no, all way too campaign specific.



Not anymore setting specific than Tieflings, Dragonborn, Monks, and Warlocks though. And those are all going into the core books. Why are Warforged, Changelings, and Thri Kreen too setting specific, but those classes/races aren't?
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Please no, all way too campaign specific.

How? they have partiular stories with particular campaign settings, but so do most other races. Halflings aren't campaign specific just because they're dinosaur-riding barbarians in Eberron. Warforged fit into any setting with golems, Changelings fit into any setting with doppelgangers, and Thri-Kreen fit into any setting with insects.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
-Changeling: Eberron.

-Thri-Kreen: Dark Sun.

-Warforged: Eberron.

All three have been included in non-campaign-specific books without problem. Both 3.5 and 4E included Warforged as race in generic monster manuals, for example.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
-Changeling: Eberron.

-Thri-Kreen: Dark Sun.

-Warforged: Eberron.




...that doesn't address anything. Nothing about any of those races makes them setting specific. Doppelgangers have been in pretty much every edition's MM. Any setting that has golems can have warforged, and Thri Kreen have been a staple in D&D for decades.
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Warforged, totally an Eberron thing, which is cool.

And I totally just used them as an example of how they're not exclusively an Eberron thing.
Check out your 4E MM or your 3.5 MM3.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Of course it does.

What does it address? We already know those races are often associated with those campaign settings. That doesn't change anything, so why did you try to bring it up again?

Yeah, as a monster.

I'm pretty sure they also give them playable stats in a couple of editions. I know they did in 4E.

Yeah, in the 1st Ed MM 2, as a monster. 

They've been playable in plenty of non-Dark-Sun-specific books, for example the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook.

I believe in campaign identity/integrity.

So... you're being contrary for the sake of being contrary?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Changes everything

How do you think that you did that?

No, I just believe in what I said (campaign integrity is important to me).

And other people should care because...?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I think they won't include them because

A) Base setting is FR. Sorry guys, some of you may not like it but it's a decision that's been made and we are just going to have to work with it :P

B) I'm sure there's stuff they want to save for splatbooks. 
My two copper.
You seem to be new to this forum, so I don't know if you know about how forums work, but in general, when people post something, it's because they want to get across some kind of point, and it helps if they also post thing like complete sentences, complete thoughts, reasoning, and so on so that they're actually contributing to the conversation, especially in cases where it helps to make it look like you've read the rest of the discussion up to that point. Posting something simple and then acting like your posts stands on its own when questioned about it makes it seem like you think that everybody else is psychic. Or makes it seem like you're just trolling.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Going back to the point I feel the first PHB or however they eventually call the first core/module or whatever book can not have ALL the races.

So obviously you chose races that are used in most settings by most player groups. Now if I look at Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Eberon or Ravenloft there are a lot of races there that are in all four.

The core book should just have those races and I do feel each setting should have its own module book to add on that if needed.

Makes sence in that you get normal sized books, but also marketingwise.
I want people to have access to anything they want, but I do not accept those in my game. That means, like most everything else, a stripped down core and then everything else modular. If you put them in core, the assumption is that they exist in 'society', and therefore adventures and setting info and other rules may take them into consideration, which ruins it for us.

Start with only the barebones, then let each group module in what they want.




Apparently that's not enough for some, why can't I play my warforged ninja in this campaign...



Becuase the setting is low magic and there are hardly any golems let alone intelligent ones that players could play?? Just one possibility.

Why should you be able to play it if it's not part of the setting??

I don't expect to see that stuff in the core book(s), no.  But I also don't really plan to buy 5e until they're available.  "Weird races" are insanely popular in my groups, especially Warforged (and despite my love of it, we don't currently play in Eberron), and switching to a new edition (once it actually costs money) probably won't happen until the players can all get their "weird stuff" again.

But, again, that doesn't mean I expect to see it in the core books.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I don't expect to see that stuff in the core book(s), no.  But I also don't really plan to buy 5e until they're available.  "Weird races" are insanely popular in my groups, especially Warforged (and despite my love of it, we don't currently play in Eberron), and switching to a new edition (once it actually costs money) probably won't happen until the players can all get their "weird stuff" again.

But, again, that doesn't mean I expect to see it in the core books.


This. I've bee playing in numerous campaigns for 4e over the last 2-3 years and I've played 1 human, and 1 elf as far as normal races go. Everything else has been Changelings, Dragonborn, and Genasi, among other. Especially Genasi.
All monster humanoid should be designed like potential PCs.

Some races could be designed to be PCs but published in the monster manual.

* Thri-keens were in Fogortten Realms monstrous compedium, but it is a creature with four arms, and it can break the power balance (let´s imagine it, PC with shield + two-handend weapon + one-handed weapon).

 

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Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

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The simple solution is too include rules in the Monters Manual for all of the Playable races, for those that like and want a high exotic fantasy game.

One of the problems that races present is maintaing balance, nobody wants their cool race to be nerfed in order to balance with the basic races, but if PHB present them all as options then they really should be balanced. If a DM wants to allow a bunch of interesting races, then he can compensate for imbalances in a host of ways for his group on an individual level. 

I don't have a problem with any fantastic races, but it puts the other races in the position where they are either straight inferior or suddenly get a bunch of new weird abilities to get balanced.

My mind is a deal-breaker.

I find it difficult to understand the logic of people who like a story telling game, yet want to be able to tell a story without structure, history, and understandable flow.  The reason a dragon doesn't pop his head out in a James Bond movie is because there is a setting.  It's very hard to tell a story without having that story attached to the setting. 

I do understand players wanting options.  I understand someone wanting to play a sentient unicorn that is a paladin.  Fine.  But, if it conflicts with the setting and game mechanics, then no.  There is only so much room in the PH, and it should be reserved for what people play most often.  And the fact of the matter is that boils down to: humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs.

We shouldn't discount the fact that there are countless FR novels, that have painted and built a truly beautiful and well thought out world.  There are very few worlds that are so charecterized and explained and historic as FR.  Why shouldn't they use it? 
I don't expect to see that stuff in the core book(s), no.  But I also don't really plan to buy 5e until they're available.  "Weird races" are insanely popular in my groups, especially Warforged (and despite my love of it, we don't currently play in Eberron), and switching to a new edition (once it actually costs money) probably won't happen until the players can all get their "weird stuff" again.

But, again, that doesn't mean I expect to see it in the core books.



Yep, I didn't play 4E until it's second year, when there were Golems(Warforged) and Werewolves(Shifters) available, among other things.

Looks like Next might be waiting a year for my time and money, as well.
I'm not even certain that "humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs" is anything like the actual list of what people play most. While my sample obviously isn't representative, I've seen an order of magnitude more warforged characters than gnome characters and half-orc characters combined, across 3.5 and 4e -- and almost none of that campaigning was set in Eberron.

I still don't expect Warforged to show up in Next's PHB. Next isn't about being a game that people want, it's about being a game that people don't not want.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
This is another point where it's easy to exclude (because every single race is an optional modular component which can be removed with zero consequences) but hard to include (because homebrewing quality and balanced mechanics is beyond most people) so the default should be to keep as many options in the game as possible.

However I DO see WotC ignoring that principle here, because these races (along with Shifters, Mul, Kender, the Gith) are EXACTLY  the kind of things which sell splatbooks... even to people not all that interested in the actual setting they are part of.

So, economics probably trumps good design in this case. 
I find it difficult to understand the logic of people who like a story telling game, yet want to be able to tell a story without structure, history, and understandable flow.  The reason a dragon doesn't pop his head out in a James Bond movie is because there is a setting.  It's very hard to tell a story without having that story attached to the setting. 

I do understand players wanting options.  I understand someone wanting to play a sentient unicorn that is a paladin.  Fine.  But, if it conflicts with the setting and game mechanics, then no.  There is only so much room in the PH, and it should be reserved for what people play most often.  And the fact of the matter is that boils down to: humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs.

We shouldn't discount the fact that there are countless FR novels, that have painted and built a truly beautiful and well thought out world.  There are very few worlds that are so charecterized and explained and historic as FR.  Why shouldn't they use it? 



Seriously, the Realms? The kitchen-sinkiest of kitchen-sink worlds? You might as well talk about the purity and smooth development of the English language. 
I find it difficult to understand the logic of people who like a story telling game, yet want to be able to tell a story without structure, history, and understandable flow.  The reason a dragon doesn't pop his head out in a James Bond movie is because there is a setting.  It's very hard to tell a story without having that story attached to the setting. 

I do understand players wanting options.  I understand someone wanting to play a sentient unicorn that is a paladin.  Fine.  But, if it conflicts with the setting and game mechanics, then no.  There is only so much room in the PH, and it should be reserved for what people play most often.  And the fact of the matter is that boils down to: humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs.

We shouldn't discount the fact that there are countless FR novels, that have painted and built a truly beautiful and well thought out world.  There are very few worlds that are so charecterized and explained and historic as FR.  Why shouldn't they use it? 



Seriously, the Realms? The kitchen-sinkiest of kitchen-sink worlds? You might as well talk about the purity and smooth development of the English language. 


:D
My hope for unique races is making them generic enough to fit into any setting without shoehorning.  So, why not strip warforged, dragonborn, tieflings, and eladrin down to golems, half-dragons, half-fiends, and high elves?  They're still the same, the art and fluff may be a tad different, but at its core its your favorite concept.  Plus, nothing to scare away others that may hate the more exotic races.  Also, Thri-Kreen originated in the Forgotten Realms Tongue Out

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Okay... so this a weird thing to consider. Why are elves, halflings, and dwarves the goto non-exotic races? Bypassing obvious fantasy influences, I mean in the games and players' minds. They were established in PHBs as viable non-exotic races. I think it might be a good faith gesture if the first PHB had a list of "exotic races" which dms may optionally allow in their games. Yes, it's less space in the core books for what some people want, but I think 4e changed players' perceptions of what races are common. As others have pointed out, gnomes in some groups are pretty exotic. I've only seen one played once... in a one-shot. Warforged? A few different times across 3.x and 4e.
I'm not saying these new races should be mandatory at every table or something. But, there should be reasonable support for different playstyles.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
I think it should have greys and xenomorphs
A few guidelines for using the internet: 1. Mentally add "In my opinion" to the end of basically anything someone else says. Of course it's their opinion, they don't need to let you know. You're pretty smart. 2. Assume everyone means everything in the best manner they could mean it. Save yourself some stress and give people the benefit of the doubt. We'll all be happier if we type less emoticons. 3. Don't try to read people's minds. Sometimes people mean exactly what they say. You probably don't know them any better than they know themselves. 4. Let grammar slide. If you understood what they meant, you're good. It's better for your health. 5. Breath. It's just a dumb game.
I would like to see most setting-specific races appear in their corresponding campaign setting module personally. For exemple:

Planescape: Tiefling, Aasimar, Githyanki, Githzerai 
Dragonlance: Draconian, Gully Dwarf, Kender, Minotaur
Eberron: Warforged, Shadar-kai, Changeling, Shifter, Kalashtar
Dark Sun: Thri-Kreen, Half-Giant, Mul
Forgotten Realms: Drow, Genasi

etc..
I find it difficult to understand the logic of people who like a story telling game, yet want to be able to tell a story without structure, history, and understandable flow.  The reason a dragon doesn't pop his head out in a James Bond movie is because there is a setting.  It's very hard to tell a story without having that story attached to the setting. 

I do understand players wanting options.  I understand someone wanting to play a sentient unicorn that is a paladin.  Fine.  But, if it conflicts with the setting and game mechanics, then no.  There is only so much room in the PH, and it should be reserved for what people play most often.  And the fact of the matter is that boils down to: humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs.

We shouldn't discount the fact that there are countless FR novels, that have painted and built a truly beautiful and well thought out world.  There are very few worlds that are so charecterized and explained and historic as FR.  Why shouldn't they use it? 



There are some players that really don't rp now and they could care less about what fits in a setting.  Regardless that the core is basing itself off Forgotten Realms instead of generic fantasy.

This isn't to say all players are like this and there's nothing wrong with those that do.  It's just to try and give you some perspective.

It's hard to address key issues like this without addressing the elephant in the room and this not turning into edition wars.  It's about priorities of what's fun for a playgroup without alienating another base.  That goes both ways.
I think it should have greys and xenomorphs



Why not the whole Alternity catalogue too?

I would like to see most setting-specific races appear in their corresponding campaign setting module personally. For exemple:

Planescape: Tiefling, Aasimar, Githyanki, Githzerai 
Dragonlance: Draconian, Gully Dwarf, Kender, Minotaur
Eberron: Warforged, Shadar-kai, Changeling, Shifter, Kalashtar
Dark Sun: Thri-Kreen, Half-Giant, Mul
Forgotten Realms: Drow, Genasi

etc..



I'd rather Genasi be included with Planescape.  Why not add some of the FRCS and RoF content in a Realms package?  Fey'ri, Centaurs, Deurgar, Alternate Realmsian Races, Svirfneblin, Spirit Folk to name a few.


An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
I think it should have greys and xenomorphs



Why not the whole Alternity catalogue while we're at it ;)




As long as they are all balanced, have no meaningful fluff and are from real historical europe
A few guidelines for using the internet: 1. Mentally add "In my opinion" to the end of basically anything someone else says. Of course it's their opinion, they don't need to let you know. You're pretty smart. 2. Assume everyone means everything in the best manner they could mean it. Save yourself some stress and give people the benefit of the doubt. We'll all be happier if we type less emoticons. 3. Don't try to read people's minds. Sometimes people mean exactly what they say. You probably don't know them any better than they know themselves. 4. Let grammar slide. If you understood what they meant, you're good. It's better for your health. 5. Breath. It's just a dumb game.
I think it should have greys and xenomorphs



Why not the whole Alternity catalogue while we're at it ;)




As long as they are all balanced, have no meaningful fluff and are from real historical europe



Well, according to the History Channel, aliens visited Medieval Europe Tongue Out

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
I find it difficult to understand the logic of people who like a story telling game, yet want to be able to tell a story without structure, history, and understandable flow.  The reason a dragon doesn't pop his head out in a James Bond movie is because there is a setting.  It's very hard to tell a story without having that story attached to the setting. 

I do understand players wanting options.  I understand someone wanting to play a sentient unicorn that is a paladin.  Fine.  But, if it conflicts with the setting and game mechanics, then no.  There is only so much room in the PH, and it should be reserved for what people play most often.  And the fact of the matter is that boils down to: humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs.

We shouldn't discount the fact that there are countless FR novels, that have painted and built a truly beautiful and well thought out world.  There are very few worlds that are so charecterized and explained and historic as FR.  Why shouldn't they use it? 



There are some players that really don't rp now and they could care less about what fits in a setting.  Regardless that the core is basing itself off Forgotten Realms instead of generic fantasy.

This isn't to say all players are like this and there's nothing wrong with those that do.  It's just to try and give you some perspective.

It's hard to address key issues like this without addressing the elephant in the room and this not turning into edition wars.  It's about priorities of what's fun for a playgroup without alienating another base.  That goes both ways.



Please understand that I'm all for player options.  I do understand their perspective.  I just believe that D&D is a role playing game, or at least that's what it's labeled.  And for roleplay, their generally needs to be a story: to help players care about charaters, to make them interact with a succinct world, and to help the DM and players have a logical flow of plotline. 

I am the first to say I love a good 4e Lair Assualt.  No story.  No plot.  Just a build and try to get it done.  But, in then end, the majority of people playing are playing a story based game.  And like I said, there is only so much room in the PH.  I'm not saying alienate a different group.  I am saying, cater to the main group, and then build expansions for others. 
I find it difficult to understand the logic of people who like a story telling game, yet want to be able to tell a story without structure, history, and understandable flow.  The reason a dragon doesn't pop his head out in a James Bond movie is because there is a setting.  It's very hard to tell a story without having that story attached to the setting. 

I do understand players wanting options.  I understand someone wanting to play a sentient unicorn that is a paladin.  Fine.  But, if it conflicts with the setting and game mechanics, then no.  There is only so much room in the PH, and it should be reserved for what people play most often.  And the fact of the matter is that boils down to: humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-orcs.

We shouldn't discount the fact that there are countless FR novels, that have painted and built a truly beautiful and well thought out world.  There are very few worlds that are so charecterized and explained and historic as FR.  Why shouldn't they use it? 



Seriously, the Realms? The kitchen-sinkiest of kitchen-sink worlds? You might as well talk about the purity and smooth development of the English language. 



Oh, I get it.  Play literary critic all you want, and I'll probably even agree.  But that does nothing to discount that this game is designed to make money.  You do that by appealing to the broadest fan base.  And unequivically, the largest fan base out ther is the dwarf, elf, and human fan base - a la LOTR and FR.

Not to mention the sheer amount of novels that have been sold.  People may critic the writing style and the "unimaginative" world of FR or Harry Potter.  But, the masses are saying something different.  Just because a chef pronounces culinary as cool-in-ary doesn't make it so, even if it is technically correct to a small group of people.
Honestly, given how terribly, horribly bland the 5e races have been thus far, I really really really am not looking forward to seeing what the current take on "weird" races would be.
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Until I see any evidence otherwise, I assume the only races that will be PC options outside of specific setting splatbooks will be the Tolkien 4.

For some people, this will be great and fine.
I hope they have lots of fun.  
My gaming group's money won't go towards any of the next D&D until it can support the game they want to play.  Which is, universally, not LotR.
Coin from my purse won't be flowing until I have any reason to expect to run this game. 
 
Now, if FR is going to be the core setting, as Greyhawk was 3X and Points of Light was 4E, we are missing some races. Well,a sub-race or two and then a race or two.
I'll run FR for $10/player/game session + food... needless to say, I don't care for it as a game setting (as a fiction setting, I am more interested). I may play in a Realms game, if there's nothing else in town and I like everyone else at the table. So, unless the Realm-fluff is very detachable from the system, I'll have about the same non-start that some (very vocal) 3X players had when they saw 4E for the first time.

Now, a decent "As PCs" section of the MM or race creation rules in the DMG/PH would go a long way towards me not caring that the game is implying I should run FR or LotR and that that is the definition of D&D. 

TLDR: I'm not paying for the salad bar until it has more than lettuce and ranch. 
I have an answer for you, it may even be the truth.
My bet is that the core will be Human, Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling (if only because those 4 races have the most traction and broadest representation in fantasy literature), and possibly a couple others that have nearly as broad representation, like Gnomes, Half-Elves, and Half-Orcs.

Note that I personally would love to see the races that have been strongly associated with certain settings (Warforged with Eberron, Tiefling with Planescape, etc) be available from the outset, if only because I don't want to have to wait for the associated setting book to start playing in that setting in earnest.  They don't necessarily have to be called by their "setting" name, if that makes it easier for people to not object to their inclusion.  For example, "Warforged" as a term in strongly associated with Eberron.  But "golem" feels more generic and viable for all settings.  And so on and so forth.

But as much as I'd like to see all the various races represented (in generic non-setting specific ways if necessary), the real concerns of complexity and bloat necessitates drawing the line somewhere.  If I were in charge, I'd try to have about 8-10 races, with the 7 I mentioned up top, and also including (in order) the Shifter, the Goliath (or Half-Giant), and lastly the Dragonborn, as I feel those 10 races have the broadest presence in established fantasy literature.

That said, I'm not overly attached to my list, and if Warforged/Golems make it in at the expense of, let's say, Dragonborn or Shifters, I wouldn't cry into my Cheerios.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging. Roll dice, not cars.
Another option, to get people on the train even if it's going to be a while before their setting of choice is released would be some kind of "Races of the Worlds" web supplement/PDF/printout that just quickly stats up the most popular races from the set that they don't include in core. Nothing fancy, just a quick post-up to help with conversion. You probably want to draw the line somewhere (Mul players can probably make do with Dwarves), but it slightly flattens one potential stumbling block to edition switching.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
My hope for unique races is making them generic enough to fit into any setting without shoehorning.  So, why not strip warforged, dragonborn, tieflings, and eladrin down to golems, half-dragons, half-fiends, and high elves?  They're still the same, the art and fluff may be a tad different, but at its core its your favorite concept.  Plus, nothing to scare away others that may hate the more exotic races.  Also, Thri-Kreen originated in the Forgotten Realms



Yes! Golems, half-dragons, half-fiends, high elves... with the setting specific versions as sub-races.
As for additional Forgotten Realms races...

I would like to see most setting-specific races appear in their corresponding campaign setting module personally. For exemple:

Planescape: Tiefling, Aasimar, Githyanki, Githzerai 
Dragonlance: Draconian, Gully Dwarf, Kender, Minotaur
Eberron: Warforged, Shadar-kai, Changeling, Shifter, Kalashtar
Dark Sun: Thri-Kreen, Half-Giant, Mul
Forgotten Realms: Drow, Genasi

etc..



Shifters are pretty prominent in 4E Forgotten Realms.
my compromise would be the folowing.

Have many of these non basic races player races in the first MM with side bards on how to use them as a player race.
Then have them fleshed out more in the campaign settings that have those races as major races for the campaign.

this way people who like playing those races can pick them up early on without having to wait for the campaign setting.
During my AD&D 2nd edition era, a "golem" race naturally appeared in our game. Warforged concept wasn't new at all for us.
In fact, I'm more suprised that warforged didn't appeared sooner in the offer of playable races.
And the doppleganger has fascinated a lot of people since its appearance in the monster manual.

Thri-kreens are not universal as warforged and dopplegangers.
Golems are coming from any runic themed regions (Norse-like cultures, or classic D&D dwarves). Ebberon has made warforged as a race, not just uncommon accidents, but the option of playing an intelligent golems could be open without defining them as being frankestein-creature-minded.
Doppleganger-like creatures and adventurers appear in all cultures and, by definition, are easy to introduce in any setting as a secretive race.

But as good as thri-kreen are as a concept, they doesn't work well with most settings.
Dark Sun is hot all the time.
An insect race is problematic as soon as the player are exposed to cold seasons, which is the case in most settings.

So, I agree that Warforged and dopplegangers make far more sense than tieflings or dragonborn as figuring in the first choices offered to players, but I don't think the thri-kreen concept is enough general or transposable. 

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

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