A human solution

What if human's got +1 to all stats, and got an extra +1 @ levels 5 and 10?
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
Then you trade human supriority now for human divinity later.
What if human's got +1 to all stats, and got an extra +1 @ levels 5 and 10?



Then anyone who didn't play humans in every single game with even a hint of long-term stability would be a colossal idiot.
What if they got +2 at every level?  Imo humans don't need more stat bonuses, they need less plus some other mechanic.  As it stands they will be the best choice for all hybrid classes and the only real mitigating factor is lack of low light vision.  Dwarfs can kind of hold their own compared to humans but my real issue is conceptually it seems extremely strange to me that humans are superior in every way to the other races as presented.  Except they can't see in the dark.  Not convinced that balances it out.    
What if human's got +1 to all stats, and got an extra +1 @ levels 5 and 10?



Then anyone who didn't play humans in every single game with even a hint of long-term stability would be a colossal idiot.



Hello 3e super-humans all over again? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I kind of want something closer to true Norse elves and true Norse dwarves. Hehe, if people think humans are awesome, the Alfar and the Dvergar are terrifyingly powerful. Just because of their race.
I've read stories where Dvergar can refine uranium with their teeth.
I've read stories where Dvergar can refine uranium with their teeth.



And they can enter a death-like sleep and just gain new esoteric knowledge from it. Elves can walk through walls and freely enter the feyworld. I was thinking an elf with enough hit-dice quick-stepping in and out of the timestream rapidly as a fighting technique for something like that. Make elves and dwarves cool again Wizards! But yeah, in all seriousness I'm a fan of powerful races, like ancient Numenorian Menn, Tolkien's vision of elves is much closer to the Alfar than D&D elves, and while his dwarves are all right, I'm not as impressed with them as I am his other races.
I'm also not impressed with how excessive humans are in this playtest. I told my players if they want to play any race, just take human stats if they want, and make it whatever race (I threw in fancy vision if they want)... I think only dwarves approach the same level of benefits.

My mind is a deal-breaker.

I'm also not impressed with how excessive humans are in this playtest. I told my players if they want to play any race, just take human stats if they want, and make it whatever race (I threw in fancy vision if they want)... I think only dwarves approach the same level of benefits.



Wait, I play in your game and I don't remember you telling me this!
I'm also not impressed with how excessive humans are in this playtest. I told my players if they want to play any race, just take human stats if they want, and make it whatever race (I threw in fancy vision if they want)... I think only dwarves approach the same level of benefits.



Wait, I play in your game and I don't remember you telling me this!



I mentioned it, but you were saying the dwarf was balanced enough... You can switch to a hafling if you want?

My mind is a deal-breaker.

I'm also not impressed with how excessive humans are in this playtest. I told my players if they want to play any race, just take human stats if they want, and make it whatever race (I threw in fancy vision if they want)... I think only dwarves approach the same level of benefits.



Wait, I play in your game and I don't remember you telling me this!



I mentioned it, but you were saying the dwarf was balanced enough... You can switch to a hafling if you want?



Only if it's a Dark Sun halfling.
I solved the Human problem ages ago. Just treat them like every other race and give them some actual unique racial features. I posted this... I think a few months back? It may be a bit outdated now, but the spirit still fits in general:

HUMAN TRAITS
Ability Score Adjustment: One starting ability score of your choice increases by 1.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Heroism: When you make an attack roll, you can always reroll a natural 1. When you force a target to make a saving throw, you can always force it to reroll a natural 20.
Humanity: When you help another creature, the creature can instead gain advantage for the next relevant attack roll or saving throw that it makes before your next turn.
In addition, once per encounter, you can help another creature as part of another action.
Spirit: When you have advantage on any roll and you roll the same number on both d20, you can reroll one of the d20.
Versatility: Choose any two ability scores. When you make a check using either of those ability scores, you gain a +1 bonus to the check.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language of your choice.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I'm fond of Crimson's solution. But, I was curious abt the distinct dislike towards humans having superior stats at the start of the game. A few arguments I've read rejected the notion that humans could be more stealthy than an elf or more tough than a dwarf, right from the start. However, humans (in some interpretations) are supposed to be naturally well-rounded, but highly adaptable such that they can become more capable over time.

Now, what if the human had only a +1 at level 1 (and maybe one racial feature picked from a few), then got +1s at levels 5 & 10. Would this have less human divinity? Would it effectively portray humans adapting over their adventuring career? Would it still be as repulsive to people as humans' playtest bonuses?
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
I'm fond of Crimson's solution. But, I was curious abt the distinct dislike towards humans having superior stats at the start of the game. A few arguments I've read rejected the notion that humans could be more stealthy than an elf or more tough than a dwarf, right from the start. However, humans (in some interpretations) are supposed to be naturally well-rounded, but highly adaptable such that they can become more capable over time. Now, what if the human had only a +1 at level 1 (and maybe one racial feature picked from a few), then got +1s at levels 5 & 10. Would this have less human divinity? Would it effectively portray humans adapting over their adventuring career? Would it still be as repulsive to people as humans' playtest bonuses?



Imo humans should be balanced with the other races as I believe the classes should be balanced.  Not balanced as in doing the same dpr but at minimum having a place in and out of combat.  I don't think humans should be worse than the other races but they shouldn't in every way be superior except for low-light vision.  Conceptually it rubs me the wrong way.  Why is a 100 year old dwarf less physically fit, intelligent, charismatic, and wise than a teenaged human?  But then I find it strange that humans are supposed to be super adaptable, more socially and mentally flexible, and all that other jazz that gets assigned them to differentiate them from the other races.  It's like humans have been granted the benefits of the DnD devs strange racism agaisnt other races that don't even exist.   
Bascially because the uber stat boosts are boring!

It's lazy, unbalanced, and is largely static except at level up.

Which is also a critique of the 5e races as a whole except change level up for character creation.

4e races were (mostly) balanced, had interactive and distinct features that a player could decide when to use, and as a general rule could play a wide range of classes and gear load outs well.

5e races make 3e phb races look interesting. 
Bascially because the uber stat boosts are boring!

It's lazy, unbalanced, and is largely static except at level up.

Which is also a critique of the 5e races as a whole except change level up for character creation.

4e races were (mostly) balanced, had interactive and distinct features that a player could decide when to use, and as a general rule could play a wide range of classes and gear load outs well.

5e races make 3e phb races look interesting. 

This. All of this.

I'm actually currently in the process of rewriting the basic four DDN races in ways that would actually be interesting rather than what they have going on right now, so make sure to stop by, give critiques, and talk about race design when I post the thread.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
yeah, stats are dull. Give us a menu of special abilities like the rest of the races.
Or better yet give us a menu of options that don't suck.
I would just prefer they did away with racial stat boosts and have backgrounds address that issue.  Therefore you still have a fluff reason to explain certain character has a bonus for variety, but players get a little more customization in choices.  For those that argue a genetic advantage/disadvantage thing I suppose specific racial backgrounds could be included as well, but not sure how I feel about that.  It would still address each race having its own flavor however.
So... I'm kinda' easy-going when it comes to races. I don't have much of a stake (or a steak... mmm... steak) in how they turn out. But, I wanted to see if the humans could get stat bonuses in a way which would be palatable (even if it isn't preferred). However, I do like the idea of every race getting a few different meaningful abilities chosen from a menu. I think this would allow a DM (and player group) to define their races. For me, I'd like to bring back the 4e races (Of course, YMMV) and differentiate between magical swordplay elves and nimble forest elves. I could see the much promised modularity allowing for this.

I really like this idea. I'm actually surprised that others are so vocally for dropping racial stat bonuses. With the ways this would affect the math, should classes offer two +1s? Or should everyone just get a floating +1 to customize their character?

"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
+1 to rampant, crimson concerto, kadim, and any who are displeased with just stat bonuses and weaksauce racial options.  +2 to me for +1-ing everyone.  How nice of me.  
+1 to rampant, crimson concerto, kadim, and any who are displeased with just stat bonuses and weaksauce racial options.  +2 to me for +1-ing everyone.  How nice of me.  



-1 to Hollbk01 for just posting high-fives, and not adding

 

My mind is a deal-breaker.

x0.5 to zago for being judgey
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
The stat bonuses are awesome...to the extent that they are a little too much so.  It feels like they tried to reinvent the tire in a square shape...only it worked better(ok, analogy failed).  My point is the stat bonuses are mundane and too strong.  I would love them to the point that I'd have a hard time time choosing to play a different race(and that is a problem).  Give humans a +2 bonus to a stat and a bonus feat.  That should be enough
x0.5 to zago for being judgey



Hanging judge, is whut they call me.

My mind is a deal-breaker.

Zago, would you prefer all the races drop stat bonuses for a menu of racially themed abilities / benefits?

Hollbk01 still has a high five of +1, even after the debuff.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
I don't mind if they change the racials, but if they go back to the old 1 more feat and skill I will be very dissapointed :P Everyone seems so eager just to go back to how it was instead of brainstorming new stuff a lot of the time.
My two copper.
Elves & Dwarves hear 100s of years. I don't wanna hear em' complain!
A few guidelines for using the internet: 1. Mentally add "In my opinion" to the end of basically anything someone else says. Of course it's their opinion, they don't need to let you know. You're pretty smart. 2. Assume everyone means everything in the best manner they could mean it. Save yourself some stress and give people the benefit of the doubt. We'll all be happier if we type less emoticons. 3. Don't try to read people's minds. Sometimes people mean exactly what they say. You probably don't know them any better than they know themselves. 4. Let grammar slide. If you understood what they meant, you're good. It's better for your health. 5. Breath. It's just a dumb game.
Hmm... Going back a bit may actually be helpful. Or maybe I just read your post and jumped the complete wrong direction hehe. We will find out by how bad I get attacked I guess.

What if we went back and added in racial peanalties again. Balance out a race with a peanalty to match the buff. For instance (Very roughly done over the next 5 minutes so please forgive)

halflings: +1 to stealth checks and attack rolls. Reduce die level by one Eg roll a d4 instead of d6 or what have you. Effectively this small buff mixed with small penalty means they can not do as much damage but when they do hit the attack will always at least do a little more than minimum.

Scale the peanalty to the level of the buff for the race.

So for humans it would be something like :Human versitility, plus 1 to any 2 stats on creation. Human folly, stat peanalties twice as harsh/last twice as long. This would be a big buff big peanalty that shows that humans at best can be versitile and at worst can be cripplingly overspecialized and anything that hinders that specialization really hurts them.


Just an idea to toss around.

EDIT: Though I suppose it doesn't help the boringness of the class feature... So still needs work... Maybe if each race could choose from the peanalty/buff system or a couple race feats that are more marginalized so they dont completly outshine the buff peanal system by virtue of having no drawback...
Hmm... Going back a bit may actually be helpful. Or maybe I just read your post and jumped the complete wrong direction hehe. We will find out by how bad I get attacked I guess.

What if we went back and added in racial peanalties again. Balance out a race with a peanalty to match the buff. For instance (Very roughly done over the next 5 minutes so please forgive)

halflings: +1 to stealth checks and attack rolls. Reduce die level by one Eg roll a d4 instead of d6 or what have you. Effectively this small buff mixed with small penalty means they can not do as much damage but when they do hit the attack will always at least do a little more than minimum.

Scale the peanalty to the level of the buff for the race.

So for humans it would be something like :Human versitility, plus 1 to any 2 stats on creation. Human folly, stat peanalties twice as harsh/last twice as long. This would be a big buff big peanalty that shows that humans at best can be versitile and at worst can be cripplingly overspecialized and anything that hinders that specialization really hurts them.


Just an idea to toss around.

EDIT: Though I suppose it doesn't help the boringness of the class feature... So still needs work... Maybe if each race could choose from the peanalty/buff system or a couple race feats that are more marginalized so they dont completly outshine the buff peanal system by virtue of having no drawback...



Well, we haven't seen action dice mentioned too much yet.  I would like to see humans with a more reasonable stat bump and be the sole beneficiaries of an action die.  Basically, once per day you can role a 1dX and add that result to any die roll.  They need more than that, but it's something more than +2 and +1 to everything...