Goblins - matter of style

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I have a question as a relative newbie to the game (2013). Is playing goblin deck considered as some sort of cheating or bad taste? I've met such attitude from some people from top-100 1vs1. They said it just before gg (in my favor), but nevertheless. I'm really shy to use them further)
No, people who can't handle the heat of goblins and complain about it are straight up terrible. Keep on crushing them.
Play the game how you want to play it. That being said, I am one of the people who despises Goblins. A common scenario looks like this:

T1: Goblin Guide, swing for 2.
Me: Island.
T2: Warren Instigator, swing for 2.
Me: Island.
T3: Goblin Chieftain, swing for 9, drop Goblin Piledriver and Siege-gang Commander.
Me: Concede.

Sorry, but that's no fun for me. Although, being on the other end of a Rite of Replication is no fun for the other guy, so fair is fair.
I agree. Moreover, I despised them four days ago and considered them as absolute lack of fun for both sides (opponent can't do anything, proponent just throwing units out). Now I see them a beautiful example of co-working)

 But - don't you think, that this deck is slightly misplaced in this game? Should it be here at all? It seems to me, that almost all other decks have entirely another tempo of playing. Even PK, CM and GM aren't so fast and efficient simultaneously. And they are supposed to be in the same league! (in tactics aspect)
I seem to favor playing slower, more control-based decks so when it comes to goblins they are basically the bane of my existence. Can't say I feel for goblin players who say "tough luck" to those playing decks with the odds sharply against them. The power and consistency of a goblin deck is a bit beyond my preference for a balanced game, but I'm not one who would bad mouth a goblin player. More like just sigh to myself and await the inevitable unless I'm feeling up to the challenge. I don't hate them. Goblins are fun and the most I've been able to enjoy a mono red deck, but couldn't call them my favorite match up either.
Goblins was good before the promos and had to run 5 or so average cards. The promos for this deck were insane, they filled all the holes in the deck and made it very consistent. It is only slightly above the power level of some decks and can lose to a couple of sweepers.
I'd rather the best, most efficient deck be a fast weenie rush than a slow, grinding control deck.  So, nah I don't have an issue with goblins.
Play the game how you want to play it. That being said, I am one of the people who despises Goblins. A common scenario looks like this:

T1: Goblin Guide, swing for 2.
Me: Island.
T2: Warren Instigator, swing for 2.
Me: Island.
T3: Goblin Chieftain, swing for 9, drop Goblin Piledriver and Siege-gang Commander.
Me: Concede.

Sorry, but that's no fun for me. Although, being on the other end of a Rite of Replication is no fun for the other guy, so fair is fair.




Exactly how it rolls with me most of the time.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Play the game how you want to play it. That being said, I am one of the people who despises Goblins. A common scenario looks like this:

T1: Goblin Guide, swing for 2.
Me: Island.
T2: Warren Instigator, swing for 2.
Me: Island.
T3: Goblin Chieftain, swing for 9, drop Goblin Piledriver and Siege-gang Commander.
Me: Concede.

Sorry, but that's no fun for me. Although, being on the other end of a Rite of Replication is no fun for the other guy, so fair is fair.




Exactly how it rolls with me most of the time.




Brothers in our love for Crosswinds, I guess... my favorite deck and yours too, if I'm not mistaken?
Inevitable - this is the word for it) For example - SS is widely considered as a most dangerous deck here, but it's game can be disrupted, undermined an so on. It has more options, but it also give the possibilities to counter them. 

And if goblins have good mulligan? As you said - you can just sigh and watch)

If they have bad one - they (mostly) can't offer anything in late game.

So there no real tactics in both cases.

In other words - it's fun to play goblins vs goblins. Only. Ok, it's may be a noob opinion, but isn't this deck "out of here" 

***

ok, my question was answered before I post it) thanks, monk
Yup. Never been as good in 1v1 than in in 4ffa or 2hg, but I love it.
The only flying I have is Fog Bank, and no Hatchlings.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

That being said, I'll smoke Gobbies with my Chandra deck.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

So there no real tactics in both cases.



This is at the core of my distaste for Goblins. I have seen Goblin players stall in the mid-game and bust out some tactics to finish the job, and I respect those games. At least I felt like I was a participant in the game...
Yup. Never been as good in 1v1 than in in 4ffa or 2hg, but I love it.
The only flying I have is Fog Bank, and no Hatchlings.



I actually run 2x Kraken Hatchling exclusively for Goblins.
Yeah, BoF eats goblins alive. Beat the 50th something ranked guy on Steam when he was GG and I was BoF. Considering the first 40 on steam are all blatantly cheating (something like 65000 pts, at rank 41, it drops to like 3000pts or something similarly drastic.)

However, try any ofther deck, and you are probably doomed. The secret is to just stop them from getting more than 1 or 2 goblins out at any given moment, and don't be blue. 
The secret is to just stop them from getting more than 1 or 2 goblins out at any given moment, and don't be blue. 



The Bane of my Existence.
The secret is to just stop them from getting more than 1 or 2 goblins out at any given moment, and don't be blue. 



The Bane of my Existence.




The bane of CW, AS, SaS and DP

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

No, playing the goblin deck is not bad taste or cheating.
Just ignore the angry messages and play the deck(s) you like.

That's what I do.

Damn the system and its hypocrites! You quit your quest and venture into the slums of the Gruul Clans!
Damn the system and its hypocrites! You quit your quest and venture into the slums of the Gruul Clans!
Take THE QUEST FOR RAVNICA today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

Hence the "don't be blue" part. And I don't begrudge people playing goblins. I love goblin decks (even went so far as to run Dragon's Roar as a goblin deck in DotP 2012). However, I also like playing with the weaker decks, as the wins are more rewarding. I don't like being able to steam roll. Conversely, when goblins loses, it seems to do so fantastically as well. I'll take a hard fought match, win or lose, any day over a lopsided match, win or lose. 
No, people who can't handle the heat of goblins and complain about it are straight up terrible. Keep on crushing them.


The opposite is true, people who play goblins are straight up terrible. As others have pointed out, GG has almost no real decision making and relies almost completely on the draws, rather than the skills, of the 2 players.

This is fine, it's a competitive game and competitive players have every right to utilise highly effective options. But don't kid yourself that you're talented because you're winning with it. Maybe you are, but winning with goblins is not a demonstration of that.

As for the OP, as a new player it depends on what you want to get out of the game. If you're just interested in internet points to brag about to faceless people you don't know, by all means continue playing goblins. However if you're actually interested in learning to play the game well and becoming a skilled player, choose a different deck.

The opposite is true, people who play goblins are straight up terrible. As others have pointed out, GG has almost no real decision making and relies almost completely on the draws, rather than the skills, of the 2 players.

This is fine, it's a competitive game and competitive players have every right to utilise highly effective options. But don't kid yourself that you're talented because you're winning with it. Maybe you are, but winning with goblins is not a demonstration of that.

As for the OP, as a new player it depends on what you want to get out of the game. If you're just interested in internet points to brag about to faceless people you don't know, by all means continue playing goblins. However if you're actually interested in learning to play the game well and becoming a skilled player, choose a different deck.


I'm certain if you played a hundred goblin mirror matches with identical builds against LSV or any other top competitive magic player, he would win more games in the end.
Sure, you can get lucky in a game or two, but in the long run all magic is about making the right decisions.

Damn the system and its hypocrites! You quit your quest and venture into the slums of the Gruul Clans!
Damn the system and its hypocrites! You quit your quest and venture into the slums of the Gruul Clans!
Take THE QUEST FOR RAVNICA today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 


I'm certain if you played a hundred goblin mirror matches with identical builds against LSV or any other top competitive magic player, he would win more games in the end.
Sure, you can get lucky in a game or two, but in the long run all magic is about making the right decisions.


Sigh, do I really need to elaborate on this. Sure you have to actually make decisions when you are playing goblins, but the vast majority of them are so simplified compared to other decks that they are barely a decision, most of the time the best option is obvious to any half competent player.

Of course there are always going to be situations where skill and smart choices make a difference. But the frequency of those situations is much, much lower for GG than any other deck in the game, to the extent where they are the exception rather than the norm.

edit: of course all of my comments on this topic are assuming a well tuned aggro build for GG, maybe there are other ways to build the deck that are more complex (but I don't think I've ever seen one :P).
Of course there are always going to be situations where skill and smart choices make a difference. But the frequency of those situations is much, much lower for GG than any other deck in the game, to the extent where they are the exception rather than the norm.



Jackpot. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Of course there are always going to be situations where skill and smart choices make a difference. But the frequency of those situations is much, much lower for GG than any other deck in the game, to the extent where they are the exception rather than the norm.



I disagree.  I don't think playing Goblins is significantly more straightforward than playing Pack Instinct, or even Born to Flame and Obedient Dead.  Goblins might just seem more straightforward because everything happens so fast, but there are still many important decisions to be made
Of course there are always going to be situations where skill and smart choices make a difference. But the frequency of those situations is much, much lower for GG than any other deck in the game, to the extent where they are the exception rather than the norm.



I disagree.  I don't think playing Goblins is significantly more straightforward than playing Pack Instinct, or even Born to Flame and Obedient Dead.  Goblins might just seem more straightforward because everything happens so fast, but there are still many important decisions to be made



My thoughts exactly. People despise aggro decks because they look like more straightfoward to play, but they don't realize that playing an aggro deck requires much more decisions to be made than playing a control deck. Aggro decks are much more affected by your mulligans, for example. Or by how you play your lands. This requires much more though than the regular "Do I need this dead or not?" that a control deck has to answer every match.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

It's a great deck with a lot of very favourable matchups. It is always aggravating to see somebody play something like T1 Goblin Guide, T2 Goblin Piledriver, Warren Investigator, Goblin Wardriver and then T3 Goblin Chieftain. Not that difficult with how consistent the deck was right from the start and how nutty it became with promo unlocks. 
I disagree.  I don't think playing Goblins is significantly more straightforward than playing Pack Instinct, or even Born to Flame and Obedient Dead.  Goblins might just seem more straightforward because everything happens so fast, but there are still many important decisions to be made


Pack Instinct can be pretty straight forward but nowhere near as generally effective as GG, so it's not a problem. 

Deciding when to play removal has vastly more variables involved than deciding which early game goblin cards to play. The decision has to be made around a projection of how the game is going to play out based on the interactions between your deck/hand and the potential in the opponents. In a removal heavy deck you have more flexibility with this decision, but it should always require some consideration. Any half decent player is going to try and bait out your removal so they can get their power cards down, so you need to be balancing that versus the threat the earlier cards present.

There is absolutely no comparison in GG, for at least the first 5 rounds the best move is usually going to be obvious, regardless of what your opponent does or what deck they are playing (ok, counterspells might require some extra craftiness) . And after that the game is usually already won or lost.
Goblins has its unfavorable matchups, it just isn't to the blue decks. Ya know, there's some matchups where CW is heavely favored to win (like ED and SaS).

I like playing Peacekeepers or Celestial Light against goblins. Act of War also seems to be fairing pretty well, with all the first strike and untapping stuff. 

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

i got no prob with gob bob. they hit hard fast but run out of steam real quick. coupled with the right cut BF or MS they can rattle the walls in 2HG.  
My thoughts exactly. People despise aggro decks because they look like more straightfoward to play, but they don't realize that playing an aggro deck requires much more decisions to be made than playing a control deck. Aggro decks are much more affected by your mulligans, for example.


I would argue that aggro decks are less difficult to make mulligan decisions for than control decks. Because your early game is the focus the cards in your starting hand are going to basically make or break your game, so your decision on whether to mulligan is primarily influenced by the cards that are in hand; you can see them all right in front of you and decide whether they are a strong group or not.

A control deck needs to project the possibilities of a longer game that exceeds the lifetime of most of the cards in your starting hand. There are far more variables to consider when deciding on the value of each card and their potential value throughout each stage of the game, with all of the possibilites that could arise.

Making decisions about known information vs potential possibilities is always a much easier decision to make.
My thoughts exactly. People despise aggro decks because they look like more straightfoward to play, but they don't realize that playing an aggro deck requires much more decisions to be made than playing a control deck. Aggro decks are much more affected by your mulligans, for example.


I would argue that aggro decks are less difficult to make mulligan decisions for than control decks. Because your early game is the focus the cards in your starting hand are going to basically make or break your game, so your decision on whether to mulligan is primarily influenced by the cards that are in hand; you can see them all right in front of you and decide whether they are a strong group or not.

A control deck needs to project the possibilities of a longer game that exceeds the lifetime of most of the cards in your starting hand. There are far more variables to consider when deciding on the value of each card and their potential value throughout each stage of the game, with all of the possibilites that could arise.

Making decisions about known information vs potential possibilities is always a much easier decision to make.



But because the early game is your focus, the starting hand of the aggro deck is harder to evaluate. Sure, a nice curve and lands to cast it are a keep no matter what, but you won't have it every time, and a bad start is devastating for the aggro deck.

When you look to the control deck, you'll look for removal spells. But they have the same value no matter which point of the game we are. To the hell with possibilities, if I have removal I'm cool! I don't have to project the longer game, I just need to reach it.

What I'm trying to say is: the line between a keep and a mulligan is more thin in for a aggro deck. And a bad start is much worse for the aggro deck.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

^this
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />My thoughts exactly. People despise aggro decks because they look like more straightfoward to play, but they don't realize that playing an aggro deck requires much more decisions to be made than playing a control deck. Aggro decks are much more affected by your mulligans, for example. Or by how you play your lands. This requires much more though than the regular "Do I need this dead or not?" that a control deck has to answer every match.



Maybe in a constructed format, but playing goblins there's not much skill in how you play your lands....


Funnily enough, there could be more skill to playing lands in goblins, since it isn't hurt as much by holding back excess lands to keep more information hidden. So maybe you take a hit on a land drop for a few turns because you know you really don't have to play much beyond 4 which might keep your opponent guessing what else you have to influence their plays. Many other decks need to keep laying lands a majority of the game though just to cast their more expensive spells. They won't be able to achieve the same effect until much later in the game.

But because the early game is your focus, the starting hand of the aggro deck is harder to evaluate. Sure, a nice curve and lands to cast it are a keep no matter what, but you won't have it every time, and a bad start is devastating for the aggro deck.

When you look to the control deck, you'll look for removal spells. But they have the same value no matter which point of the game we are. To the hell with possibilities, if I have removal I'm cool! I don't have to project the longer game, I just need to reach it.

What I'm trying to say is: the line between a keep and a mulligan is more thin in for a aggro deck. And a bad start is much worse for the aggro deck.


The difficulty in deciding whether to mulligan an aggro deck comes down to "what are the chances of the re-draw being stronger than this hand" rather than "what is the potential value of this hand". The actual hand is easy to assess; 80% or more of the value of your entire game is right there in front of you. 
Brodo, i think you should just keep playing lands. Your opponent will figure out you have nothing if your doing nothing. The chance that you top deck a siege gang or a ring leader and need the mana is very relevant though
No, it's not 2013's Master of Shadows or Beknighted or anything like that.  It's likely just too fast for the format.  Aggro decks are supposed to be fast and apply enough pressure to outpace the opponent, but there's applying pressure, and then there's killing your opponent before they can do anything.  There are a number of decks in 2013 that are almost incapable of dealing with a strong start from goblins, something the deck can pull off very consistently.  This makes it a non-interactive deck to play against often enough that it probably doesn't belong here.

Anyway, I think it's a cool deck and initially I was glad about its inclusion, but ultimately I think it's had an unhealthy effect on the format because it's just designed for a faster-paced environment than the one we have in 2013.  I would rather have the good version of Strength of Stone I always wanted in its place.
I usually just random around which deck I play to keep it interesting, but if my opponent picks goblins 2-3 times in a row, I simply switch to goblins and make it a cointoss. Opponent often leaves after that, and I get a more interesting opponent afterwards.

Now... for those who say they can easily beat goblins.. no, you can't. It's luck of drawing that lets you win, provided the goblin pilot has half a brain. Which does imply quite a few variables.

There is no other deck that wins as much as GG, if you take a large enough dataset. I have to think really hard to remember a loss with goblins, and the few there are, are often against goblins.

Even the clearly good BoF deck against goblins, are not a sure win. When T3 can do stuff like pull off 19 damage uninterrupted, you need to keep the board clear at all times. (I know, the 19 damage T3 are very rare)

At the end of the day, I just find the other decks more interesting. GG and sometimes BoF are just.. .boring...


But because the early game is your focus, the starting hand of the aggro deck is harder to evaluate. Sure, a nice curve and lands to cast it are a keep no matter what, but you won't have it every time, and a bad start is devastating for the aggro deck.

When you look to the control deck, you'll look for removal spells. But they have the same value no matter which point of the game we are. To the hell with possibilities, if I have removal I'm cool! I don't have to project the longer game, I just need to reach it.

What I'm trying to say is: the line between a keep and a mulligan is more thin in for a aggro deck. And a bad start is much worse for the aggro deck.


The difficulty in deciding whether to mulligan an aggro deck comes down to "what are the chances of the re-draw being stronger than this hand" rather than "what is the potential value of this hand". The actual hand is easy to assess; 80% or more of the value of your entire game is right there in front of you. 



Goblins can have opening hands where they need no more cards to win. How many other decks can win on the strength of their first seven alone? Not saying this is common, but it is possible.
My thoughts exactly. People despise aggro decks because they look like more straightfoward to play, but they don't realize that playing an aggro deck requires much more decisions to be made than playing a control deck. Aggro decks are much more affected by your mulligans, for example.


I would argue that aggro decks are less difficult to make mulligan decisions for than control decks. Because your early game is the focus the cards in your starting hand are going to basically make or break your game, so your decision on whether to mulligan is primarily influenced by the cards that are in hand; you can see them all right in front of you and decide whether they are a strong group or not.

A control deck needs to project the possibilities of a longer game that exceeds the lifetime of most of the cards in your starting hand. There are far more variables to consider when deciding on the value of each card and their potential value throughout each stage of the game, with all of the possibilites that could arise.

Making decisions about known information vs potential possibilities is always a much easier decision to make.



This guy knows his stuff.

It would be interesting to know how often people come across GG. As a PS3 player, I have to say that I don’t come across it all that often. Same with SS. Perhaps a lot of people share the same concerns as the OP.



Back on topic though, when I come up against a GG player I have nowhere near the same ‘negative’ feelings as were sparked by coming across Master of Shadows (DOTP 2009) and Beknighted (DOTP 2012).

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