The Monk we should have got

Open the classes packet and skim down to Monk.
Drop the entire alignment section. Its not needed and doesn't reflect many styles of fighting monk.
Replace the advancement table with this one:

The Monk
          Weapon   Expertise   Save DC
Level    Attack       Dice         Bonus    Class Features
1             +3         1d4            +1      Expertise, Mindful Defense, Monastic Training, Way of the fist, Choice of 2 maneuvers
2             +3         1d6            +1      Exploration Maneuver
3             +3         1d6            +1      Social Maneuver
4             +4         1d6            +2     
5             +4         1d6            +2      Combat Maneuver
6             +4         1d6            +2      Exploration Maneuver
7             +4         1d6            +2      Social Maneuver
8             +4         1d8            +2
9             +5         1d8            +3      Combat Maneuver
10           +5         1d10          +3      Exploration maneuver

Change "Level 1: Expertise" to read the following in each section:

Maneuvers: At 1st level, you know two maneuvers chosen from the Monk maneuver list. You gain additional maneuvers as you level according to the chart above.

Using Expertise Dice: Change the second sentence to read: "At the end of each round you regain all of your expertise dice. If you successfully perform a combo maneuver you gain an extra expertise dice on the next round. These extra dice are cumulative until you miss, target a different target, or otherwise break the combo. All extra dice are lost after a 5 minute rest."

Remove the Ki section. They are folded into maneuvers.

Remove the Undaunted Strike section, it is now a Maneuver.

Remove the Purity of Body section, it is now a Maneuver.

Remove the Clear Mind section, it is now a Maneuver.

Combat Maneuvers

Stunning Strike
When you strike, you disrupt the natural flow of the Ki of the target causing them to be temporarily stunned.
Effect: When you hit a creature with an unarmed attack, you can expend expertise dice to try to stun the creature. The creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. A creature that is nonhumanoid or of a size larger than yours makes this saving throw with advantage. It takes one expertise dice to use this maneuver. Extra dice are rolled and the highest of the extra dice are added to the DC of the saving throw. Targets of multiple attempts get advantage on the saving throw. This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.

Undaunted Strike
You focus your Ki into your fists and they become as hard as adamantine, cold as iron, filled with ki as if magical, or exude energy as if silver.
Effect: When you make an attack you can expend expertise dice to bypass a resistance. For each expertise dice expended pick one of the following: Magical, Adamantine, Cold Iron, or Silver. Your attack ignores that particular resistance.

Heightened Senses
You can hear the heartbeats of those near you so invisible or stealthed creatures find it hard to hide from you.
Effect: When you actively try to sense invisible or hidden or sneaking creatures that have a heartbeat, you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to your roll.

Ki Blast
You can focus your Ki into a ball of invisible energy and fling it with force at a nearby foe.
Effect: You may make an unarmed attack at an enemy that is within 15' that doesn't have cover or concealment. If you hit you may roll expertise dice and deal that as damage. If you use at least one expertise dice for damage and have any left you may use the stunning strike on the same target as part of this action. If you do, the target gets advantage on the saving throw. This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.

Deflect Missiles, Flurry of Blows (This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.), Hurricane Strike (This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.), Spring Attack, Tumbling Dodge

Exploration Maneuvers

Wholeness of Body
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to increase your natural healing to an almost supernatural rate.
Effect: If you are not stressed or threatened you can take 5 minutes to expend expertise dice to magically regain hit points equal to your Hit Dice + your highest expertise dice roll. When you do this it expends a Hit Dice.

Purity of Body
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to cleanse a disease from your body.
Effect: When you are affected by a disease you may roll expertise dice and add the highest dice to any saves required by the disease. This Maneuver may be used as a reaction.

Cleanliness of the Blood
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to cleanse a poison from your body.
Effect: When you are affected by a poison you may roll expertise dice and add the highest dice to any saves required by the poison. This Maneuver may be used as a reaction.

Controlled Fall, Danger Sense, Defensive Roll, Iron Root Defense, Lightning Reflexes, Mighty Exertion, Step of the Wind, Vault, Heightened Senses

Social Maneuvers

Clear Mind
Your almost supernatural senses and mental exercises make it difficult to be charmed or frightened.
Effect: As a reaction when you are given a save that involves being charmed or frightened you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to the saving throw.

Improved Senses
You can hear the heartbeats of those near you and read their Ki energy. Others find it difficult to lie to a trained Monk.
Effect: When you oppose a Bluff or Diplomacy check, you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to your roll.

Daunting Presence
Your very presence exudes competence, healthiness, and training, combined with your trained mind and ability to read people you are very well equipped to negotiate.
Effect: When making diplomacy checks while you are not rushed or threatened you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to the roll.

Iron Will

Edit: Edit in blue
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Hmm, I like the monk but im a bit iffy on the using 5 dice/encounter just to run out of things at first level (15 used at 10th) using the average adventuring day anyway.

I would probably rank them from 10d4 to 40d10 
This would be a 5MWD hell class. While I can appreciate the idea of alternate recharge for expertise dice, there must be some kind of cap on how many you can spend per turn, or you're going to get people that just want to put all thier dice into one or two giant ki blasts.

It'd be like letting a wizard cast all thier spells on the first turn. There's just way too much nova potential.
Hmm, I like the monk but im a bit iffy on the using 5 dice/encounter just to run out of things at first level (15 used at 10th) using the average adventuring day anyway.

I would probably rank them from 10d4 to 40d10 



It evens out at 1 per round, but it gives them burst potential...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
This would be a 5MWD hell class. While I can appreciate the idea of alternate recharge for expertise dice, there must be some kind of cap on how many you can spend per turn, or you're going to get people that just want to put all thier dice into one or two giant ki blasts.

It'd be like letting a wizard cast all thier spells on the first turn. There's just way too much nova potential.



Yes, but after they do that they are a really weak fighter that can't hardly do anything...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
No Yoga Teleport?

Also there are no skill checks in D&D Next according to Jeremy Crawford.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

No Yoga Teleport? Also there are no skill checks in D&D Next according to Jeremy Crawford.



Ok, change it to an ability check then.

No teleports. I was going with the traditional Kung-Fu theater Monk. In the early days they were able to throw Ki energy around like that...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
That's really unbalanced - that means they can basically spend an expertise die to try to stun every round.
That's really unbalanced - that means they can basically spend an expertise die to try to stun every round.



I updated it. They can, but when they run out for the day they run out, and when they try to stun they aren't dealing extra damage...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I strongly disagree with this Monk. I dislike expertise on the Monk and don't really care for your exploration and social maneuvers.  Do keep trying though.
I like the different pillar maneuvers and in general I support the premise of all characters having broad competance in multiple contexts.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

No, not for me thanks. I don't mind what the social maneuvers are, but I do mind what they're called and I don't like the overdependence on expertise dice.


I like that the charm/fear resistance and such are passive things. I like how this monk gets more maneuvers, but I don't want to replace the passive abilities with active maneuvers. I'd prefer to just give them more maneuvers in the first place and keep their passives. As long as the action economy is kept tight they can afford to have more options.


The expertise dice are just plain bizarre. I prefer ki to this (course, I liked ki to begin with) but I do like that expertise isn't a round-to-round resource. I would prefer to have more dice than what they've got and have it as an encounter resource.


edit: is healing exploration? huh. Never thought of it that way.

@Lokaire

It's hard to imagine that this is the idea of the 5MWD activist. AT mininum consider bringing it down to an encounter based amount. 

I've changed my mind about pooling XD, Mand12 and others have convinced me its too much work, and not lithe enough to keep combats smooth. Although I have not done any personal testing with the idea. Also I like the fact that the orginal class had more abilities not wrapped into manuevers, this seemed like a better way to differentiate the classes then pressing them all into manuevers.

My mind is a deal-breaker.

I'm not the hugest fan of the current monk, but I'm even less of a fan of this one.  No offense - it just kind of illustrates that a "daily pool", at the same values, comes off as quite a bit of a mess.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I personally was considering a sort of encounter instead of daily derived pool 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I don't see the point beyond forcing ki and expertise to overlap, which comes at the cost of making all their maneuvers magical. While the current has some magical tricks, you can imagine a couple being usable by an unarmed or light armour fighter (and the magical ones work fine with ninja builds of the rogue).
And it removes flurry of blows. 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

Also check out my books at 5mwd.com/publishingIncluding Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuildinga compilation of my blog series on Worldbuilding.

 

Ditto. I think that each of the expertise classes should have a:
Same set of dice - this makes multiclassing a lot easier as you don't need to figure stacking. A Monk 5/Fighter 5 has +3d10 just as either a Monk 10 or Fighter 10 does.
Set of maneuvers that are generally global.
Then give each class an option to turn maneuvers into something special a number of times per encounter = amount of ki that a Monk has per day.

As an example, a Monk doing Flurry of Blows all against the same target might get to do a Grab against that target too or a Rogue without Advantage could still do Sneak Attack damage to a target. 
You got a point here: Monks should either use Ki only or Maneuvers only....
You got a point here: Monks should either use Ki only or Maneuvers only....



How about a Mystic having Ki moves and a monk being a hybrid class with both.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Far too many Expertise dice, it's a mess logistically, and I don't care for the "Exploration," "Social," etc split. It seems a bit gamey to me. The monk in the playtest packet is far superior to this one, I'm afraid.

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

One of the things that intrigues me about the monk's first draft is that it has two distinct resources that work on very different ratios. I want them to interact and complement each other more but I really, really like that level of complexity.


It'd be a real shame to throw away the opportunities for these resources to interact.

The main problem I have with the play test monk is the immunities. Nothing should be totally immune. Advantage or adding ED to rolls sure, but not immune. I also think that they can differentiate ED enough between the classes that it should be the main mechanic of all martials. I don't think anyone wants the monk to be super complex and having ED and daily Ki focus (which makes no sense if you know martial arts and Kung-Fu theater) gets complex. I could go with an encounter pool, but I was thinking that the Rogue should get the encounter pool to demonstrate that you can't be tricked a whole lot before you figure out whats going on.

So change the table to 5d4 at first and progress like that and swap it to an encounter resource for the same thing.

I was also thinking that the Monks maneuvers could chain and that's how they would get ED I might have to rework it some.

Really the whole Ki focus thing just doesn't work the way they have it...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Far too many Expertise dice, it's a mess logistically, and I don't care for the "Exploration," "Social," etc split. It seems a bit gamey to me. The monk in the playtest packet is far superior to this one, I'm afraid.



Gamey or not 5E will fail if the Monk can't hang in social and exploration and is only a slightly worse Fighter in combat.

All classes should contribute equally in each pillar in a different way...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Open the classes packet and skim down to Monk.
Drop the entire alignment section. Its not needed and doesn't reflect many styles of fighting monk.
Replace the advancement table with this one:

The Monk
          Weapon   Expertise   Save DC
Level    Attack       Dice         Bonus    Class Features
1             +3         1d4            +1      Expertise, Mindful Defense, Monastic Training, Way of the fist, Choice of 2 maneuvers
2             +3         1d6            +1      Exploration Maneuver
3             +3         1d6            +1      Social Maneuver
4             +4         1d6            +2     
5             +4         1d6            +2      Combat Maneuver
6             +4         1d6            +2      Exploration Maneuver
7             +4         1d6            +2      Social Maneuver
8             +4         1d8            +2
9             +5         1d8            +3      Combat Maneuver
10           +5         1d10          +3      Exploration maneuver

Change "Level 1: Expertise" to read the following in each section:

Maneuvers: At 1st level, you know two maneuvers chosen from the Monk maneuver list. You gain additional maneuvers as you level according to the chart above.

Using Expertise Dice: Change the second sentence to read: "At the end of each round you regain all of your expertise dice. If you successfully perform a combo maneuver you gain an extra expertise dice on the next round. These extra dice are cumulative until you miss, target a different target, or otherwise break the combo. All extra dice are lost after a 5 minute rest."

Remove the Ki section. They are folded into maneuvers.

Remove the Undaunted Strike section, it is now a Maneuver.

Remove the Purity of Body section, it is now a Maneuver.

Remove the Clear Mind section, it is now a Maneuver.

Combat Maneuvers

Stunning Strike
When you strike, you disrupt the natural flow of the Ki of the target causing them to be temporarily stunned.
Effect: When you hit a creature with an unarmed attack, you can expend expertise dice to try to stun the creature. The creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. A creature that is nonhumanoid or of a size larger than yours makes this saving throw with advantage. It takes one expertise dice to use this maneuver. Extra dice are rolled and the highest of the extra dice are added to the DC of the saving throw. Targets of multiple attempts get advantage on the saving throw. This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.

Undaunted Strike
You focus your Ki into your fists and they become as hard as adamantine, cold as iron, filled with ki as if magical, or exude energy as if silver.
Effect: When you make an attack you can expend expertise dice to bypass a resistance. For each expertise dice expended pick one of the following: Magical, Adamantine, Cold Iron, or Silver. Your attack ignores that particular resistance.

Heightened Senses
You can hear the heartbeats of those near you so invisible or stealthed creatures find it hard to hide from you.
Effect: When you actively try to sense invisible or hidden or sneaking creatures that have a heartbeat, you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to your roll.

Ki Blast
You can focus your Ki into a ball of invisible energy and fling it with force at a nearby foe.
Effect: You may make an unarmed attack at an enemy that is within 15' that doesn't have cover or concealment. If you hit you may roll expertise dice and deal that as damage. If you use at least one expertise dice for damage and have any left you may use the stunning strike on the same target as part of this action. If you do, the target gets advantage on the saving throw. This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.

Deflect Missiles, Flurry of Blows (This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.), Hurricane Strike (This maneuver can be considered part of a combo.), Spring Attack, Tumbling Dodge

Exploration Maneuvers

Wholeness of Body
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to increase your natural healing to an almost supernatural rate.
Effect: If you are not stressed or threatened you can take 5 minutes to expend expertise dice to magically regain hit points equal to your Hit Dice + your highest expertise dice roll. When you do this it expends a Hit Dice.

Purity of Body
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to cleanse a disease from your body.
Effect: When you are affected by a disease you may roll expertise dice and add the highest dice to any saves required by the disease. This Maneuver may be used as a reaction.

Cleanliness of the Blood
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to cleanse a poison from your body.
Effect: When you are affected by a poison you may roll expertise dice and add the highest dice to any saves required by the poison. This Maneuver may be used as a reaction.

Controlled Fall, Danger Sense, Defensive Roll, Iron Root Defense, Lightning Reflexes, Mighty Exertion, Step of the Wind, Vault, Heightened Senses

Social Maneuvers

Clear Mind
Your almost supernatural senses and mental exercises make it difficult to be charmed or frightened.
Effect: As a reaction when you are given a save that involves being charmed or frightened you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to the saving throw.

Improved Senses
You can hear the heartbeats of those near you and read their Ki energy. Others find it difficult to lie to a trained Monk.
Effect: When you oppose a Bluff or Diplomacy check, you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to your roll.

Daunting Presence
Your very presence exudes competence, healthiness, and training, combined with your trained mind and ability to read people you are very well equipped to negotiate.
Effect: When making diplomacy checks while you are not rushed or threatened you may roll expertise dice and add the highest to the roll.

Iron Will

Edit: Edit in blue



I updated it to not have a daily pool, but to have a combo increasing pool...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Far too many Expertise dice, it's a mess logistically, and I don't care for the "Exploration," "Social," etc split. It seems a bit gamey to me. The monk in the playtest packet is far superior to this one, I'm afraid.



Gamey or not 5E will fail if the Monk can't hang in social and exploration and is only a slightly worse Fighter in combat.

All classes should contribute equally in each pillar in a different way...


So let me get this straight.

5e will fail if...

4e players arent represented
3e players arent represented
1/2e players arent represented
Humans aren't nerfed
Rogue doesn't get fixed
Skill Mastery doesn't get removed
They don't differentiate the fighter
They don't nerf casters
They don't give casters more spells per day
They nix the Warlord
Monk doesn't get fixed
Alignment restrictions prevail
Alignment restrictions DON'T prevail
The 5mwd comes back in ANY form
Ability caps are instated
Ability caps AREN'T instated
We don't have a skill list
Level 10 is the cap
Legacy system is core
Cavalier ends up being a class
...

I could go on, but that's just a short tally of things people have said will make 5e completely fail. Game seems doomed from the start with logic like that :P
My two copper.
Far too many Expertise dice, it's a mess logistically, and I don't care for the "Exploration," "Social," etc split. It seems a bit gamey to me. The monk in the playtest packet is far superior to this one, I'm afraid.



Gamey or not 5E will fail if the Monk can't hang in social and exploration and is only a slightly worse Fighter in combat.

All classes should contribute equally in each pillar in a different way...


So let me get this straight.

5e will fail if...

4e players arent represented
3e players arent represented
1/2e players arent represented
Humans aren't nerfed
Rogue doesn't get fixed
Skill Mastery doesn't get removed
They don't differentiate the fighter
They don't nerf casters
They don't give casters more spells per day
They nix the Warlord
Monk doesn't get fixed
Alignment restrictions prevail
Alignment restrictions DON'T prevail
The 5mwd comes back in ANY form
Ability caps are instated
Ability caps AREN'T instated
We don't have a skill list
Level 10 is the cap
Legacy system is core
Cavalier ends up being a class
...

I could go on, but that's just a short tally of things people have said will make 5e completely fail. Game seems doomed from the start with logic like that :P



See now you are getting it. Gold Star for you...Smile

Most of that can be handled by modularity, but one of the major things is having each class specialize in a pillar. That would be a total deal breaker for a lot of potential customers. I can't imagine sitting around the table and waiting for the bard to get done with their flowery speech so I can get back to flinging magic at bad guys. That would be the most boring game in the world...Wink
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I've removed content from this thread. Baiting and Trolling are violations of the Code of Conduct.

You can review th Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct

Remember to keep your posts polite and on topic and refrain from making personal attacks.  
See, I actually like the combo concept.  I've not given it more than a cursory glance over, but it seems neat.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
See, I actually like the combo concept.  I've not given it more than a cursory glance over, but it seems neat.



I like it too... cant examine closer yet.. somebody crunch numbers please ;p
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

This actually isn't bad.  I'm not sure the dice progression matches up, but I didn't really look at it.  Also, I see no reason to break maneuvers into the three pillars.  Let someone concentrate on one pillar if they choose, as long as there are options for all pillars.  Let them tailor the character for the specific campaign.

May I make two suggestions...

Undaunted Strike
You focus your Ki into your fists and they become as hard as adamantine, cold as iron, filled with ki as if magical, or exude energy as if silver.
Effect: When you make an attack you can expend expertise dice to bypass a resistance. For each expertise dice expended pick one of the following: Magical, Adamantine, Cold Iron, or Silver. Your attack ignores that particular resistance.


Just let the monk ignore resistance without having to spend expertise dice.  Give it to him as a class feature at a specific level.

Wholeness of Body
You focus your mind and use your inner Ki to increase your natural healing to an almost supernatural rate.
Effect: If you are not stressed or threatened you can take 5 minutes to expend expertise dice to magically regain hit points equal to your Hit Dice + your highest expertise dice roll. When you do this it expends a Hit Dice.


Delete "take 5 minutes to expend expertise dice to" and add the sentence "After you invoke this maneuver you must meditate for ten minutes before you can invoke it again." to the end of the power.  That's consistent with other "encounter powers" and read better.

(Actually, the whole proposal needs some editing, but I assume that's because you wrote it pretty quickly.)
Well I like this.

I'm typically not a fan of XD for all martial classes. That said, if we ARE doing that, should classes have different XD progression?

Kinda think Monk might have a faster XD acquisition but smaller dice value overall.
I'll probably update it with more ideas and loosen the restrictions on the different pillars so that players can build whichever way they want...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.

Well if you don't think anyone wants complex interaction of resources within the class you'd be wrong 'cause I quite like the notion.


Course, I don't want that complexity to make it difficult to track, I just want the use of ki and expertise dice in the playtest monk to allow for a variety of options.



Anyway back to this guy: the combo expertise concept is really interesting. Way better than crazy numbers of dice.

Best of Dragon Magazine, page 53, that is, to me, the best monk.
I don't like this iteration of the monk nor its previous incarnations in other editions of D&D. It only represents ONE type of monk, the "kung-fu master Shaolin" which I find too narrow a concept befitting a class. Combat/fighting style shouldn't merely define what a class is about. Strip the martial arts and what is a D&D monk? And the use of chi/ki is an application and even a way of life taken from Chinese and Japanese cultures. Its not strictly a monk schtick and anyone can learn it with proper dedication and discipline.

As for D&DN, I thought the design team wanted to focus on the 'core four' classes and that most classes if not all would derive from. Monks by definition are basically priests like the cleric. So why the segragation? Just because monks don't cast spells like the traditional D&D cleric that doesn't make them any less a priest as they are. Their reclusive environment and training maybe different but they are still indoctrinated in their chosen religion.
Err, Numinex, I think I see the source of your unhappiness here: the Monk in DnD isn't a priest. The Monk in DnD is this guy, the hero of the Chinese wuxia genre. Conceptually they tend to be "knight errant" types who lie somewhere between a paladin, a rogue, and a fighter.

Ultimately though, Monk gets to be a distinct class from Fighter for the same reason the Druid is distinct from the Cleric; because while the characters behind the class are fundamentally the same, the pop cultural presentations of the characters are different enough to mean that they have different abilities players would expect when pulling them off the shelf.

In short, Monks are not Priests and Monks are inextricable from martial arts due to how martial arts inform their cultural presentation. Glad I could help.
The problem with this thread is that I think, for the most part, we got the monk we should have got. The existing monk is very cool! It could use a slight damage boost at 6th level (to keep it in parity with the fighter's damage boost), but overall it is great. So, unlike the rogue version of this thread, I don't really buy into Lokiare's premise...
I like the idea of the Monk using Expertise dice, but with a "twist", like lokaire's combo idea.

Keeps a good mechanic fresh between the classes that use it. 
Far too many Expertise dice, it's a mess logistically, and I don't care for the "Exploration," "Social," etc split. It seems a bit gamey to me. The monk in the playtest packet is far superior to this one, I'm afraid.



Gamey or not 5E will fail if the Monk can't hang in social and exploration and is only a slightly worse Fighter in combat.

All classes should contribute equally in each pillar in a different way...



I don't think that the class should represent anything but the combat pillar. Backgrounds define the roleplay pillar, and specialties define the exploration pillar. 

When you make a class have a large portion of the other pillars your just restricting my ability to choose my own role in those pillars, give me choices in each pillar.

My mind is a deal-breaker.

The problem with this thread is that I think, for the most part, we got the monk we should have got. The existing monk is very cool! It could use a slight damage boost at 6th level (to keep it in parity with the fighter's damage boost), but overall it is great. So, unlike the rogue version of this thread, I don't really buy into Lokiare's premise...


I pretty much agree.  My "problems" with the Monk are either things that aren't really a problem with the Monk (like "Expertise = Any and All Combat Skill"), or that are pretty minor (like "Why doesn't Ki interact with Expertise, at the very least with a 'Use your ki, get some dice for this round only'?).
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Far too many Expertise dice, it's a mess logistically, and I don't care for the "Exploration," "Social," etc split. It seems a bit gamey to me. The monk in the playtest packet is far superior to this one, I'm afraid.



Gamey or not 5E will fail if the Monk can't hang in social and exploration and is only a slightly worse Fighter in combat.

All classes should contribute equally in each pillar in a different way...



I don't think that the class should represent anything but the combat pillar. Backgrounds define the roleplay pillar, and specialties define the exploration pillar. 

When you make a class have a large portion of the other pillars your just restricting my ability to choose my own role in those pillars, give me choices in each pillar.



While I agree.... psssst rogue.

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."