Will we see more races?

The 'classic 4' we have now are nice but I was hoping we'd start seeing more in the newer playtests. I haven't followed the game as closely as others, so has there been any word on future races? In particular I'd like to see Half-Elves as a fully fledged race, and I'd rather it based off the 4e Half-Elf as it is the only edition that ever did the race any justice. From there I'd also live to see Tieflings and Dragonborn.

Oh and.. I'm probly in the minority but I don't care if they ever add gnomes. :P
What I believe and am hoping is the case is that they're going to apply the same approach to races as they say that they're applying to classes, which is to say they're going to work on getting the basic four right before moving on too far. The difference is that races appear to be a much lower priority, as evidenced by the fact that there have been next to zero articles explaining what they want to do about racial design, not to mention the fact that they've made next to zero changes to them since the play-test began; they're exactly as atrociously designed now as they were in the first version of the play-test.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Yeah I'd like to see some actual effort put into the designs of races before they go and screw up the cool races.
We could use this thread to talk about those PC races, like gnome background, deva/aasimar, and other favorite ones.

I would like the idea of return half-ogre, like a alternative to half-orc and the goliath.

I wish shadar-kai with a dark background and like "cousins" of elves, eladrines, drows (and oriental shens)...but without a obliged link with the shadow plane.

* Sharminds are.... very exotic, but I would like alternative origin myth. 

* Oriental tengu could be only humanoid with long nose (symbol of proud).

* Do you think genasis could have got genies ancestors (djinns, dao, efreeti, marid, jann..)?

* The fraals (Star*Drive, setting from Alernity, the classic little gray men) could be a psionic PC race. 

* If a dragon pair a half-dragon off...would be the son a dragonkin?  

* Centaurs and Bauraiurs should have got racial traits about being quadruped (for example they couldn´t use boots).

*  I miss raptorans from "Races of wild"

* Did anybody like spellcales from "Races of dragon"?

* Do you think Vrylokas from "Heroes of Shadow" were cool?

I imagine the "necrotouched" reverenant like deathless subtype (undead but healed by positive energy and hurt by negative energy, from "Book of exalted deeds"), with a background were closer necropolitans from Libris Mortis.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

My son is dying for the Warforged, he loved the race.

I have given him a mashup to get us by, nothing major.

I used many of the Dwarf traits (weapon training, HD bump, and then a +1 to CON or STR) and we simply call it Warforged for now.  He also has 4 hrs of "meditation-like-state" where he is dormant but aware.  No eat, breath, etc.

 

∴ "Virtus junxit, mors non separabit." 

I would like to see the "Classic" races covered in the initial release. I am a sucker for the small races, so Gnomes still need to be covered, as well as Half Elf. I agree with the above poster that we need these to be fleshed out as well.
Oh and.. I'm probly in the minority but I don't care if they ever add gnomes. :P

I'd rather see gnomes than halflings.  I have no interest in Hobbit ripoffs that are often little more than short humans.  I'm not a huge gnome fan, but I openly question the halfling's place as a "core" race.
Yes, I do think, especially during the whole sorcerer/warlock fiasco, they could have thrown us a new race or two. 
I hope so!

I'd like for the half-elf to have the option of human or elven traits, as opposed to something unrelated and tacked on for the sake of 'different'.

Gnomes are a must have in the core.

I wish for tieflings that return to Planescape awesomeness, and genasi that are not 'elemental crystal people'. 

Danny

Gnomes are a must have in the core.

I wish for tieflings that return to Planescape awesomeness, and genasi that are not 'elemental crystal people'. 




I'm with you on both of those, gnomes are key (Garl Glittergold vs. Kurtulmak), and I have a tiefling of yugoloth descent as a main antagonist, they don't all have to be of devilish origin.

 
I'm 100% sure there will be more races.  Just don't ask me when.

IMO they will go.

1) Classes (what should they have).
2) Monster/HP/Healing Math (what's the right amount of to-hit/damage).
3) High level play.
3.5) Multiclassing.
5) Races.
6) Tactical Modules.
7) Other Modules.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

The problems with monsters are more than just the math, the monsters are boring sacks of HP, even if they could hit and do damge to pcs the 4e monsters would still pick on them because they're little more than basic attack spamming brutes.

So much of the crying about 4e races is based on stupid irrelevant scraps of fluff. I mean geeze people the campaign books went out of their way to override race fluff half the time. Any teifling from any game not set in nentir still had even chances of being demon blood vs. devil blood, and the crystal genasi were one new type, storm, every other genasi type was pretty much the same as it had always been witht he chance to change their manifestations, if you don't like the new genasi play one of the 4 classic ones, and just never take the feats that let you change your element. 

 Personally i want to see wizards release a PC minotaur that doesn't suck.
The problems with monsters are more than just the math, the monsters are boring sacks of HP, even if they could hit and do damge to pcs the 4e monsters would still pick on them because they're little more than basic attack spamming brutes.

So much of the crying about 4e races is based on stupid irrelevant scraps of fluff. I mean geeze people the campaign books went out of their way to override race fluff half the time. Any teifling from any game not set in nentir still had even chances of being demon blood vs. devil blood, and the crystal genasi were one new type, storm, every other genasi type was pretty much the same as it had always been witht he chance to change their manifestations, if you don't like the new genasi play one of the 4 classic ones, and just never take the feats that let you change your element.

Personally i want to see wizards release a PC minotaur that doesn't suck.

Hmm...

So much of the crying about the minotaur is based on stupid irrelevant scraps of crunch. I mean, jeez people, the designers went out of their way to override the minotaur crunch no less than three times. If you don't like the new minotaur, play one of the classic ones.

;)

Danny

My complaints with the minotaur in 4e were entirely mechanical, I personally loved the crunch, but wouldn't have cared if they cut pastesd the the DL minotaurs or filed serial numbers off he tauren, but I hated how limited the abilities were, if you wanted to get any mileage out of most of your abilities you had to pump strength, and charge a lot.
I vote for basics in  the core and others in supplaments. I am not a fan of the tiefling, dragonborn, warforged, etc. I prefer the classics, Human, Half elf, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome. Just my 2cp though
My son is dying for the Warforged, he loved the race.

I have given him a mashup to get us by, nothing major.

I used many of the Dwarf traits (weapon training, HD bump, and then a +1 to CON or STR) and we simply call it Warforged for now.  He also has 4 hrs of "meditation-like-state" where he is dormant but aware.  No eat, breath, etc.

 



I've played several "Warforged" myself, though only one was a fairly traditional model from Eberron. I've mostly used it as a means to play "Golems" in various campaigns. For that reason, and with Next seemingly narrowing the "fluff" options on "uncommon" opstions (see Warlock, Sorcerer, and Monk), I hope to see Golem as the race, Warforged as the subrace... though I wonder how soon we will see published Eberron Next materials, with Forgotten realms being the default setting.

Also, I'd very much like it if Next kept the tribes of Shifters/Werecreatures from 4E Forgotten Realms as player options.
I'm 100% sure there will be more races.  Just don't ask me when.

IMO they will go.

1) Classes (what should they have).
2) Monster/HP/Healing Math (what's the right amount of to-hit/damage).
3) High level play.
3.5) Multiclassing.
5) Races.
6) Tactical Modules.
7) Other Modules.


I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw a tactical module a touch earlier than one might expect normally, given the demand. I'd rather have races before tactical modules but I'd be willing to bet we'll see it after high level play or multiclassing.
We could use this thread to talk about those PC races, like gnome background, deva/aasimar, and other favorite ones.

I would like the idea of return half-ogre, like a alternative to half-orc and the goliath.

I wish shadar-kai with a dark background and like "cousins" of elves, eladrines, drows (and oriental shens)...but without a obliged link with the shadow plane.




If you got your way on shadar-kai, I'd lose interest in them. They're cool because of their background.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I vote for basics in  the core and others in supplaments. I am not a fan of the tiefling, dragonborn, warforged, etc. I prefer the classics, Human, Half elf, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome. Just my 2cp though



My opinion is the exact opposite.  I'm sick to death of human, half-elf, elf, dwarf, halfling and gnome.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I would like dragonborn to lose the phaillic noses and lacklustre name.
I vote for basics in  the core and others in supplaments. I am not a fan of the tiefling, dragonborn, warforged, etc. I prefer the classics, Human, Half elf, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome. Just my 2cp though

My opinion is the exact opposite.  I'm sick to death of human, half-elf, elf, dwarf, halfling and gnome.

+1.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Somebody would rather the classis and other would rather more...exotic. Don´t discuss about it.


* Shadar-kai can very interesting, with a dark background, but the shadow plane isn´t necesary. Elric of Melidbone was cool and he didn´t need shadow plane.


* What monster humanoid could be optional PC race? I suposse kobolds, centaurs, orcs, gityyankis, minotaurs, goblins and hobogoblins, but each race need a different style.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

I had a 3e minotaur (savage species and all that) paladin. He was funny.


Maybe not the most min/maxed character in the world but damn fun(ny).

I vote for basics in  the core and others in supplaments. I am not a fan of the tiefling, dragonborn, warforged, etc. I prefer the classics, Human, Half elf, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome. Just my 2cp though



My opinion is the exact opposite.  I'm sick to death of human, half-elf, elf, dwarf, halfling and gnome.



Other than gnomes, I agree.

I'd love it if we could lose halflings, and fold what's good about them into the gnome. To me, they got it backwards in the 4e preview material. Gnomes have a solid place, and halflings have none.

Somebody would rather the classis and other would rather more...exotic. Don´t discuss about it.


* Shadar-kai can very interesting, with a dark background, but the shadow plane isn´t necesary. Elric of Melidbone was cool and he didn´t need shadow plane.


* What monster humanoid could be optional PC race? I suposse kobolds, centaurs, orcs, gityyankis, minotaurs, goblins and hobogoblins, but each race need a different style.




Kobolds would prolly be the easiest sell.

Shadar-kai are basically shadow fey. For that concept to really make sense and work, they need to come from a realm of shadow.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Other than gnomes, I agree.

I'd love it if we could lose halflings, and fold what's good about them into the gnome. To me, they got it backwards in the 4e preview material. Gnomes have a solid place, and halflings have none.

I completely disagree.  Gnomes have always felt silly, and ruined the tone of the setting for me, where-as Halflings were merely boring and meek.  The unconvential hero always has a place in my game, but silly... silly is a sometimes thing.

For what it's worth, though, my own games feature the Gnome as a type of earth elemental and uses the Sprite (from Secret of Mana) as the token small race.  Halflings always seemed really Tolkien-specific.

The metagame is not the game.

Bring back Kender!
Seriously though, races should be tied to the campaigns I feel.  
I want modules for races.

For example, elves would have a pointy ear module and an anorexic body module. Dwarves would have a beard module and a big nose module.

Half races would have to choose from which parent race their upper and lower body are. For example, an half-orc would have the upper body of a human and the lower body of an orc. A module could allow the half race to manifest vertically, the player chosing which side is human.

I hope there will be markets where everyone will be able to buy racial modules for themselves or a loved one.

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

Other than gnomes, I agree.

I'd love it if we could lose halflings, and fold what's good about them into the gnome. To me, they got it backwards in the 4e preview material. Gnomes have a solid place, and halflings have none.

I completely disagree.  Gnomes have always felt silly, and ruined the tone of the setting for me, where-as Halflings were merely boring and meek.  The unconvential hero always has a place in my game, but silly... silly is a sometimes thing.

For what it's worth, though, my own games feature the Gnome as a type of earth elemental and uses the Sprite (from Secret of Mana) as the token small race.  Halflings always seemed really Tolkien-specific.



Gnomes need not be silly. The fact that they are in Dragonlance and a couple other places is irrelevant, IMO.


Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Gnomes can be interesting if desing is good.

There is some options.

- The steampunk, like tinkers/minoi from dragonlance, or the flying city Serraine above world of Mystara. 

- The classic mixture of halfling and dwarf, a thin dwarf with some magic tricks. (The deep gnomes or Svirfneblin)

- The 4th edition, the mixture of Irish leprechaun and halfling. I like the idea a race of little people but survivor after great scarcities. Being showed like victims of bigger creatures in ancient times causes some empathy


The background can be changed by players, the core is good racial traits. Unfortunality gnomes were designed to be rogues, bards or ilusionist wizards most of times. The archetype of little hero is ...hold by halflings. The gnomes is a halfling with beard and mustache and some magic tricks, it isn´t enough special.

Gnomes aren´t the favorite race in the past.... but it could be used like a advantage. The future gnome background can be the little heroe who feels excluded, ignored, and he go to adventures to get prestige, admiration and respect by bigger humanoids. The role of "victim of (fantasy) society" could be a interesting background. The gnome could try their own way by alternative powers like alchemy, firearms, steampunk technology, martial arts (ki/incarnum maneuvers) or true name magic.

The female gnomes could be wonderful maho shojo/puella magic/"magical girls" (precisely because she is too diferent to the rest of people, nobody imagine those cuties babes are more powerful they look). 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

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