Legends & Lore: Here Comes . . . the Monk!

Legends & Lore: Here Comes . . . the Monk!

As it happens, the monk shows off a few of the steps we're already taking based on feedback we've seen in forums, blogs, and elsewhere. We usually wait for survey results to give us a clear direction, so everything in the monk is subject to change. That said, I feel fairly confident that the forum feedback we're using has shown up in enough different places and on a consistent enough basis that it'll come through in the survey.

You can discuss the article here.

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Wizards of the Coast Online Community Coordinator

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kneejerk reaction at reading the monk (no maneuvers read yet): seems along the right lines.

will edit later with maneuvers response.

EDIT: Yeah the maneuvers look pretty awesome too.  Can't wait to see the math breakdown guys.  I'm sure in my very brief reading I am missing a mathematical nuance or two, but so far I at least like the ideas I am seeing in here for the Monk.  So ideas are solid lets see if the execution of them are solid (I really need to get work done so I can't take the time to break down all the math)

Only complaint so far: Flurry of Blows/Step of the Wind is kindof a tax moment at the beginning.  At least it feels like that to me.  Kinda like parry is a tax on fighter's maneuvers.  Iron root defense is frickin baller though.
YEA MONK!

BOOO ALIGNTMENT!!!

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

BOOO ALIGNTMENT!!!



D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Everybody please go to the comment section of that article and express their distaste for the alignment restriction. Please.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Ugh, daily resources on a martial class.  I thought we were moving away from that

Also, our first class to rely on two primary stats, and thus which can continue to improve its primary abilities beyond when Dex hits 20.  This does not bode well.
The metagame is not the game.
Since when have monks ever been purely martial?  They've always had the mysticism bent, with daily resources.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Except that I am fine with the alignment restriction...They have to follow the rules of their monastic tradition.  They must follow them as laws.  Little transgressions are fine (if you want I'll explain the bucket theory for alignment later), but for the most part it is their monastic traditions, and their lawful adherence to them, that define the monk.
Why must all monastic traditions require rigid adherence to rules? 
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Except that I am fine with the alignment restriction...They have to follow the rules of their monastic tradition.  They must follow them as laws.  Little transgressions are fine (if you want I'll explain the bucket theory for alignment later), but for the most part it is their monastic traditions, and their lawful adherence to them, that define the monk.

Except you could have a caotic monk as a street brawler.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I like the new Monk-specific maneuvers.  I like them a lot.  It's exactly the sort of thing I've been expecting out of expertise dice since they were first introduced.  These maneuvers do a pretty decent job of capturing some of the essence that is the Monk, and they do it with a simple, coherent resource structure and mechanic that is easy to understand and easily translatable if you play other classes.

The expertise mechanic has so much potential, so much depth...we've really only barely scratched the surface.  Nice to see things are coming along.  Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
One issue with flurry of blows is that it can slow down gameplay making 4 attacks per round.

Also the bonus crit damage makes it stronger then deadly strike.

Edit: It's also cleave + deadly strike in 1.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I am not fine with a monk's alignment restrictions.  I have no idea why a monk has to be lawful, while a fighter who is as well-trained in weapons as a monk is trained in unarmed combat and ki need not be.  Or why a wizard can be chaotic diespite his years of rigorous training in the arcane arts.

Please let me have my non-lawful monk. 
They have to follow the rules of their monastic tradition.  They must follow them as laws.

Why? How is this any different than saying that Wizards must follow the rules of the Counsel of Mages or that a Cleric must follow the rules of the Religious Order or that a Fighter must follow the rules of the Army Regulations or that Rogues must follow the rules of the Thieves' Guild?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
One issue with flurry of blows is that it can slow down gameplay making 4 attacks per round.


Unavoidable, if you want to have FoB at all.  Multiple attacks is the traditional Monk schtick.  Personally I don't really like the auto-damage version in 4e, it never felt like an actual attack, more like a generic damage bonus like Hunter's Quarry.  Only when cheesing vulnerability did it ever actually demonstrate being a separate damage instance.  That's not enough to call it a true Flurry of Blows.  The very name insists on there being more than one attack.

And it's not better than DS, not on a DPR basis at least.  Sure, you get crit chance, but you also get miss chance.  The miss chance will outweigh the crit chance, at least with the current math, and I don't expect that to change.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Aren't monks required to belong to a monastic order, pretty much by definition?
The metagame is not the game.
Can someone please explain to me how the Flurry of Blows maneuver is in any way different from Deadly Strike except it makes you roll an extra d20 for every expertise die you spend?

Seriously. Replace your strike damage with expertise die. Remove any bonuses to damage. This is just adding all of your expertise dice to damage, but with more rolling and thus a lower average damage.


Alignment restrictions are bad, but I've already played 4 editions of the game completely ignoring alignment for everything, so whatever.
Can someone please explain to me how the Flurry of Blows maneuver is in any way different from Deadly Strike except it makes you roll an extra d20 for every expertise die you spend?


FoB can attack different targets than the initial attack.

It will be superior for minion low-level monster clearing, as you can't attack multiple things with DS, but for punching single targets DS will be better absent any other on-hit effects.  Probably a good idea if you really really want to make sure you land a Stunning Fist attempt.  Which is good.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I'm putting my name of 85% of the next surveys having 1s for monk alignments.


Everything else I like.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Why must all monastic traditions require rigid adherence to rules? 



Except that I am fine with the alignment restriction...They have to follow the rules of their monastic tradition.  They must follow them as laws.  Little transgressions are fine (if you want I'll explain the bucket theory for alignment later), but for the most part it is their monastic traditions, and their lawful adherence to them, that define the monk.

Except you could have a caotic monk as a street brawler.




The rigid adherence to the monastic tradition is what gives the monk his abilities with ki. It is what gives him the inner strength to find enlightenment.  The difference between a monk and a street brawler is the years upon years (probably near a lifetime) spent in the monastary, or meeting and meditating with others of your outlaw assosiation.  Trust me as someone who is unable to meditate...meditation requires a lawful nature.  The ability to command ones own mind to be vacant is not a mark of chaos it is the mark of true law and mastery of self.  The brawler in the street could still be a monk if youd like.  Apparently his monastic tradition has no problem with street fighting.  The lawful nature has nothing to do with laws in the land all it is there to signify is an adherence to their monastic traditions.
Can someone please explain to me how the Flurry of Blows maneuver is in any way different from Deadly Strike except it makes you roll an extra d20 for every expertise die you spend?

Seriously. Replace your strike damage with expertise die. Remove any bonuses to damage. This is just adding all of your expertise dice to damage, but with more rolling and thus a lower average damage.


Alignment restrictions are bad, but I've already played 4 editions of the game completely ignoring alignment for everything, so whatever.

Crit's, you can get more of them.
Cleave is basicly build in.
Some monsters may have reactions to block 1 attack, devualing them.

So it's all aournd better.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Except that I am fine with the alignment restriction...They have to follow the rules of their monastic tradition.  They must follow them as laws.  Little transgressions are fine (if you want I'll explain the bucket theory for alignment later), but for the most part it is their monastic traditions, and their lawful adherence to them, that define the monk.

Except you could have a caotic monk as a street brawler.



Also, a class should be a set of abilities, not identity, a class shouldn't dictate what your character is...that's backward.  We are starting to go back to players not calling the other player's characters by their name, but their class...
You could rip up twenty random sourcebooks and dump the shreds onto a piece of flypaper and end up with a design that is more coherant and less ignorant of the consequences of its own mechanics than the 3.5 monk, so the bar is pretty low.

That said, excepting the silly alignment restriction, I like the look of this design. I obviously haven't played with it, but it looks really neat. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea that really going all out with expertise dice allows you to upgrade maneuvers from preternatural to supernatural. That is an awesome execution of what the monk is to me - someone whose physical perfection is such that it reaches just a little bit into the realm of magic. The one tiny quibble I might have is that the monk doesn't make any character choices related to the class until level 4, but that's not the end of the world. Seriously, I am just incredibly excited by this design overall.

But let's talk about alignment restrictions. If you really feel that there has to be restrictions on what kind of person a monk can be personality- or outlook-wise, just put that in there as a restriction. Don't try to shoehorn the restrictions you want into an alignment system that's an awful fit for it. Yes, there's a very vague and hazy slight overlap between "lawful" and "stereotypcially monklike", but "lawful" is neither necessary nor sufficient as a behavior restriction. There are plenty of things that are lawful that are unmonklike, and there are plenty of things that are monklike that don't have much to do with being lawful. If you think it's important that monks are all a certain way, then at least pick something that actually makes even a lick of sense, even if it's not some random subsection of the alignment crid.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
The rigid adherence to the monastic tradition is what gives the monk his abilities with ki.

Why?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
The rigid adherence to the monastic tradition is what gives the monk his abilities with ki. It is what gives him the inner strength to find enlightenment.

Are you saying that it is impossible for a person to find inner strength or enlightenment without being part of a monastic tradition? That's silly. Monastic tradition isn't the only way to harness Ki, just as going to Hogwart's School of Witchcraft and Wizardry isn't the only way to learn magic.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
The ability to command ones own mind to be vacant is not a mark of chaos it is the mark of true law and mastery of self.  The brawler in the street could still be a monk if youd like.  Apparently his monastic tradition has no problem with street fighting.  The lawful nature has nothing to do with laws in the land all it is there to signify is an adherence to their monastic traditions.

Or, you make your mind so chaotic that it can't be charmed or feared.  You've lived so long in the sewers that you've already beaten every desease.

Don't see any reason to be lawful.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

As I'm on my phone at work I can't look at the monk yet. But I will say right now I'll be argueing against alignment restrictions in the next survey. (Just have a side bar that says in some games a DM may restrict monks to a lawful alignment to represent a forced monastic order)
Also, you are eliminating kung fu movies tropes by restricting it to lawful...  What, you think drunken fist specialist is lawful? 
Can someone please explain to me how the Flurry of Blows maneuver is in any way different from Deadly Strike except it makes you roll an extra d20 for every expertise die you spend?


FoB can attack different targets than the initial attack.

It will be superior for minion low-level monster clearing, as you can't attack multiple things with DS, but for punching single targets DS will be better absent any other on-hit effects.  Probably a good idea if you really really want to make sure you land a Stunning Fist attempt.  Which is good.



So basically you get to pick up Whirlwind Attack + Deadly Strike in one maneuver, but in exchange you have to roll a ton of attacks each round. I dunno, I just wish we'd get something actually different. Their determination to keep all of the numbers low makes things end up feeling very samey.

Crit's, you can get more of them.
Cleave is basicly build in.
Some monsters may have reactions to block 1 attack, devualing them.

So it's all aournd better.



I did forget about crits giving +xd6 damage, which makes multiple chances at getting that better. However, it is balanced out by the fact that you miss more often. Quick eyeballing level 10 monk is going to deal an average of 23.75 per round. If I remember the numbers ran previously correctly, that's roughly on par with where the rogue is. At least the Monk has more options going for him I guess.
Everybody please go to the comment section of that article and express their distaste for the alignment restriction. Please.



Nope. They're easy enough to completely ignore for everyone who doesn't like them. Considering none of the monk's abilities rely on the alignment, you can simply ignore that paragraph and be done with it. Folks who do want it just don't ignore the paragraph. It's as simple as that.

On-topic: I like this first pass at the monk quite a lot, but I'll have to see how it works in play.

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

My understanding of alignment restrictions is that they are the most difficult thing to houserule...So we should be really mad about it instead.
They're easy enough to completely ignore for everyone who doesn't like them. Considering none of the monk's abilities rely on the alignment, you can simply ignore that paragraph and be done with it. Folks who do want it just don't ignore the paragraph. It's as simple as that.

It is not as simple as that. Or have you never played in a group where different people feel differently about different things?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
My understanding of alignment restrictions is that they are the most difficult thing to houserule...So we should be really mad about it instead.

I would have no issue if they said "monks are nearly always lawful".

But if my rogue wants to take a level in monk to learn how to sucker-punch people.... 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Also, you are eliminating kung fu movies tropes by restricting it to lawful...  What, you think drunken fist specialist is lawful? 




Drunken master is still lawful.  His entire martial art is about maintaining a strict balance between drunkeness and sobriety.  He has mastered himself to make it work.  The self mastery, the absolute characterization of the monk, is the lawfulness the monk must adhere to.  Mastery of self, lawfulness, same thing.  Even if you wander a sewer and do floodgate meditation instead of normal meditation (flooding your mind with sensory input and as many thoughts as you can, to try and find peace in the white noise) the mastery of self is the lawfulness you display.  Lawful does not have one all encompassing definition (morality is fun like that).
So, instead of removing the requirement to be lawful, we should just change what lawful means?

Srsly?

Bottom line, to this and all alignment restrictions:

You have no right to tell me how my characters are played at my table.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Drunken master is still lawful.  His entire martial art is about maintaining a strict balance between drunkeness and sobriety.

Balance is neutrals thing.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I wanna be the chaotic monk who insults the master and his old ways and is yelled at for lack of discipline and focus.

Also can I haz Hadoken? I need old acolyte specialty so I can be SAGAT.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Alignment restrictions.
Terrible design.
Stupid idea.
Dealbreaker.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Alignment restrictions? Really Mike? My biggest deal-breaker has shown itself.
If Monks are lawful because of their monastaic order, Clerics need to be lawful, because they need to follow the domain of their god or church as if law, even if their god is chaotic.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made that almost any of the classes must be lawful. I'd bet that the case could also be made that almost any class must be at least unaligned. So let's just ditch alignment on the mechanics side (keep it to the fluff/background, just don't tell me how to play my game).
Never mind the fact that just because one is of the class Monk doesn't mean one is of the concept Monk.  Nothing says you ever set foot in a monastery besides the fluff, and the fluff is mutable and non-binding.

Seriously, I know you want the grognard vote and all, but this is a complete and total crock of bullplop.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.