Samurai class

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Hey all. So yeah, wanted your opinion. First off, my friend and I started this before we knew about the theme, and we aren't throwing our work out. Second, the theme sucks. It... it just sucks. I can see the use when combined with other things, but... no. And again, we wanted a full class for it.

Also, please, if your only advice is to reflavour an existing class, I'm going to ignore it. It's dumb to tell me to reflavour knght, cavalier, give a fighter kensai, or whatever. These are not what i'm looking for, and ALL those, AND samurai, were in 3e, so the argument that it's not needed is useless. It's goig to happen, and I'm asking for help, not "this is stupid and so are you" (heard that once when first asking about it.... oy) nor suggestions of simply reflavouring already existing classes. I'm asking for actual help here in making this thing work.

Also, in liue (I know I spelt that wrong) of masterwork weapons, which were more than simple bastard sword and short sword, which is what the katana and wakizashi were, I made a few new ones. The suggestion to just make reflavoured versions of those swords is.. well my guess is that guy who first said that stuff hadn't actually looked at the original samurai, because masterwork weapons are not just reflavoured normal swords.

Finally, (for now at least) its still early, so I'm missing most of the flavour text. I don't really care at the moment about that. That's stuff for later. Also yes, the flavour text for the description of the class is based in forgotten realms. Editing for later. Working in that right now.

Hope to hear some constructive critisism, and maybe suggestions.

It's long, so it'll be in the next post.

WOW! It copied weird from the program. Sorry guys... if you can't read, tell me, I'll see what I can do. Maybe just clairify a specific part.... Again, sorry.

Role:


Striker

Power Source:


Martial

Key Abilities:


Strength, Constitution, Dexterity

Armour Proficiencies:


Cloth, leather, hide

Weapon Proficiencies:


Simple melee, military melee,

Wakazashi, Uchigatana (Katana), Nodachi (Daikatana), Longbow



Bonus to Defence:


+2 Fortitude, +1 Reflex

Hit Points at 1st Level:


12 + Constitution modifier

Hit Points per Level Gained:


6

Healing Surges per Day:


7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills:


From the class skills list below, choose

three trained skills at 1st level.



Class Skills:


Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha),

Endurance (Con), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha),



Nature (Wis), Religion (Int)



Class Features:


Daisho Proficiency, Samurai Reflexes, Bushido, Iaijutsu Master, Samurai’s Challenge

Daisho Proficiency:


Proficiency in Wakazashi, Uchigatana (Katana) and Nodachi (Daikatana), and receives a set of two of the three blades at DM‘s discretion.

Samurai Reflexes:


As a samurai you have honed your reaction times, allowing you to defend and draw more effectively. +3 bonus to AC when wielding Uchigatana (Katana) or Nodachi (Daikatana) two handed. In addition, gain the bonus feat; Quick Draw.

Bushido:


When player makes a grab attack, target falls prone. Target also takes a minus to chance to escape grab equal to Strength modifier.

Iaijutsu Master:



















Levels 1 - 10





+2(W)





Levels 11 - 20





+3(W)





Levels 21 - 30





+4(W)






Prerequisite:


Must be wielding Wakazashi, Uchigatana (Katana) or Nodachi (Daikatana)

Draw and attack, striking down your opponent in one fluid motion with a Tachi style strike. In order to use Iaijutsu Master, sword must be sheathed. Useable once per round. Can only be used if target is under effect of Samurai’s Challenge. Until end of next turn, sheathing weapon provokes opportunity attacks.



Samurai’s Challenge:


Mark a target. Target takes -2 to attack rolls for attacks that don’t include you as a target. Useable once per round. To use, make a Diplomacy or Intimidate check as a minor action instead of declaring the challenge to place the challenge.

Penalty:


If you fail, you cannot attack selected target for full encounter. If you do, you dishonour self. Gain 1 dishonour point.

Honour/Dishonour:



Honour:


Samurai must pick five creeds of the following list and follow them. Failure to do so accumulates dishonour points:

1:


Protect innocent bystanders. (+1 to saves on charm and fear effects)

2:


Accept all challenges, unless doing so would be clearly dishonourable. (+1 Attack to marked enemies)

3:


Follow all orders, unless doing so would be clearly dishonourable. (+1 Will)

4:


Do not slay those who surrender. (+1 Will)

5:


Do not slay the unarmed. (+1 Reflex)

6:


Loot no corpses, as committing such an act is disrespectful. (+1 Fortitude)

7:


Partake in no extreme revelry (Moderation is key). (+3 Endurance)

8:


Begin no combat. (+1 Initiative)

9:


End what you have begun. (+1 hit points)

10:


Slay all who challenge you. (+1 Damage)

11:


Know your station, and accept no disrespect from those in a lesser station. (+3 intimidate)

12:


Never disrespect those of a higher station. (+2 Diplomacy)

13:


Never present a challenge lightly. Follow through to the conclusion, whether peace or death. (+2 Damage while bloodied)

14:


Leave a dishonourable master willingly, lest you become dishonourable yourself. (+3 Streetwise)

15:


Honour those you slay. Burials or pyres and services. (+3 Religion)

16:


Never strike without your full force. Put both arms into each strike. (+1 Attack)

17:


Never strike without ceremony. Bow (minor action) and strike once. Never let a hand leave your blade when you strike. (+1 Attack to Iaijutsu Master strike after bowing)

18:


Test your might always. Challenge all strong warriors you meet. (+1 Attack against enemies of a higher level [DM need only say yes or no, not give monster’s actual level] or larger than you)

19:


Samurai do not embarrass themselves. Tripping over one’s own feet happens. Loosing one’s trousers while inebriated does not. (+3 Athletics)

20:


Honour the ancestors who reside in your Daisho. They like to be bathed. (Pay gold equal to enchantment level of all owned weapons, minimum 1, a day to clean them). (+1 Attack)

21:


Practice the tea ceremony, and entertain friends with it (10 gold a ceremony, once per week). (+2 Diplomacy)

22:


Compliment when compliments are earned. To not is to dishonour your allies‘ works. (+2 Diplomacy)

23:


Humbleness is the mark of the warrior. Speak not of your own works with pride to boast. (+2 Diplomacy)

24:


Eat no unclean foods. Prepare all yourself. Hunting an animal, thereby giving it a chance, is with respect. Cutting the throat of a tied cow is not. (+3 Nature)

25:


Never draw needlessly. Blood must be spilt. (+1 to bloodied creatures)

26:


Dress always well and with respect. If armour be stained with blood or mud, shower apologies, for only with graciousness may honour be preserved. (+2 Diplomacy)

27:


Be always benevolent, for the poor are the least. (+3 Diplomacy when speaking to “common“ NPCs)

28:


Be always honest. Your word is your soul, and it should never be untruthful. Inaction and silence are quite often more valuable than gold. (+2 Diplomacy)

29:


Withdraw from no challenge, even if to remain would mean certain death. Such is cowardice, and shames the line. (+1 AC)

30:


Alliances are sometimes for the darkness. Survival of the people is more important than those of relationships, whether friend, ally, or lover. (+3 Intimidate)

31:


Maintain an ancestor shrine with cleanliness and incense. If desecration is committed upon it, ensure vengeance is taken and the rebuilding of the shrine personally.(+3 History)

32:


Torture is for the weak, for practitioners do not know how to gain anything without pain. (+3 Diplomacy)

33:


Talk is weakness. Fear is power. Blood brings knowledge quickly. (+4 Intimidate)

34:


Keep sacred and safe the Daisho. Pray regularly to the ancestors through the blades. (Spend 5 hours in meditation to pray). (+4 Religion and +1 Attack after praying until next extended rest)

35:


The steed of the Samurai is akin to a brother, not a servant or mere beast of burden. To needlessly encumber, inconvenience or tire one’s brother is without respect. (Mount abilities increased by +2)

36:


The dojo is as sacred as one’s ancestors and Daisho, and often contains both. Expel disrespectful students, and accept expulsion yourself if needed. (+3 Intimidate)

37:


To fight for riches is cheap Give often to Charity. (+2 Damage)

38:


To fight for riches is to provide. Take only what you require. (+1 Damage)

39:


To fight for riches is power. Power leads to strength, and in strength, safety and peace. (+3 Damage+2 Attack)

40:


Knowledge is to never be squandered. A learned Samurai is a proud Samurai. Study the ancient writings and teach the tales and lessons. An illiterate Samurai is an idiot.(+1 to all knowledge skills [Arcana, Dungeoneering, Heal, History, Nature, Religion, and Steetwise] for use in knowledge skill challenges)

41:


Bring your blade to those that crawl, slink, and slither in the darkness. (+3 Dungeoneering)

42:


A wounded warrior can still fight, but not well. Give your best to your enemies, lest you shame them by forcing battle with weakness. (+3 Heal)

43:


Be aware of others. Shame comes to those taken advantage of. (+3 Insight)

44:


Know where the feet of your enemies lay, as well as your own. A missed step may prove fatal, and bring failure. (+3 Perception)

45:


A sure foot prevents an embarrassing fall. Don’t fall in the cow dung. (+3 Acrobatics)

Dishonour:


When you reach total Will Defence in Dishonour Points, you become dishonoured, loosing the class features Daisho Proficiency, Samurai Reflexes, Bushido, Iaijutsu Master and Samurai’s Challenge. You may instantly regain honour by committing Sepuku (suicide), which may need to be permanent. If you do not, you become a Ronin. To regain honour you must perform 3 honourable quests as determined by the DM. The DM might require fewer or more, depending on the severity of actions leading to dishonour, and severity and difficulty of assigned quests. If, as determined by the DM, you have dishonoured your old creed by too great an amount or deed, you are permanently dishonoured ain that path. You must then choose 5 new creeds. Doing so reduces the number of dishonour points allowed by 3 per tier.

(full blade) Nodachi:


Superior two-handed melee weapon.

40 gp



1d12



+3



10 lb



High Crit



Brutal 1



Heavy Blade



(bastard sword) Uchigatana:


Superior one-handed melee weapon.

35 gp



1d10



+3



6 lb



Versatile



Brutal 1



Heavy Blade



(short sword) Wakazashi:


Superior one-handed melee weapon.

20 gp



1d6



+3



2 lb



Off-Hand



Brutal 1



Light Blade



The Samurai teachings of Kara-Tur were well known for their power and skill. It did not take long for these to reach their way westward. Freed from the strict ways of Kara-Tur samurai, namely that they are born into it, Fearunian samurai became more focused on the military aspects, changing it to their own ideals, never forgetting what made a samurai famous in the first place. These samurai focused less on following lords, focused less on unflinching honour, like those of the traditional Knights of the land, but made sure to keep the aspect, as little remains, as it was taught that only through such discipline could one truly become samurai. It was a necessity, as Fearun lacked the caste system of proud Kara-Tur. Now many Samurai exist, trained in schools alongside other warriors, their own specialised group of honourable swordsmen. It is from these that many ways of honour have come about, many ideas from the west of what is honourable, and what is something to truly care about, and with each comes their own fighting styles.



Level 1 At-Will



Rushed



Skilfully strike with your blade.



At-Will Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Melee weapon



Attack:


Strength +1 vs. AC

Hit:


1W + strength modifier damage

Increase to 2W at 11th level and 3W at 21st level.



Special:


When charging, you can use this power in place of a

melee basic attack.



Cross Slash



Two blades come down across each other at once.



At-Will Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Melee weapon



Requirement:


Must be wielding two blades

Attack:


Strength vs AC

Hit:


1W + strength modifier +2 damage

Special:


You can use this in place of a melee basic attack

Bushido Tumble



Any foe will reel under the pummel of your fists.



At-Will Martial



Standard Action Melee touch



Requirement:


Must not have a weapon or shield in either hand

Attack:


Strength vs Fortitude

Hit:


1d4 + strength modifier damage, and you can make a grab

attack.



Special:


You can use this in place of an unarmed melee basic attack.

Sailing Arrow



Loose an arrow at your foe.



At-Will Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Ranged weapon



Requirement:


Must be wielding a bow

Attack:


Dexterity vs. AC

Hit:


1W + Dexterity modifier damage

Special:


This attack can be used in place of a ranged basic attack.

Level 1 Encounter



Kiai Speed



Your shout seems to speed your way.



Encounter Martial



Move Action



Effect:


Shift up to 3 squares and make a melee basic attack at the end.

Shocking Kiai



Your shout calls forth the spirits of your ancestors, their energy



empowering your blade.



Encounter Martial, Lightning



Minor Action



Effect:


Until end of next turn, all your weapon attacks deal additional

lightning damage equal to your wisdom modifier.



Kiai Of Skill



Watching your movements and heeding your suggestions, your allies



draw their bows and loose their fireballs just right. But enemies are



watching and listening too….



Encounter Martial



Standard Action Area burst 5



Effect:


Until end of next turn, all ranged attacks within 5 squares gain

bonus to attack and damage equal to twice your Dexterity modifier.



Kiai



Encounter Martial



Standard Action Melee touch



Level 1 Daily



Dire Cut



Concentrate on your blade, and let your strength flow through it.



Daily Martial, Stance



Minor Action



Requirement:


Must be using a Daisho weapon

Effect:


Until you miss with an attack or the stance ends, add 1d8 to

the damage roll.



One After Another



Two blades held, two lash out, the second coming down on the cut



of the other, slicing deeper.



Daily Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Melee weapon



Requirement:


Must be wielding two blades

Attack:


Strength vs AC

Hit:


2W + strength modifier damage

Effect:


Make a secondary attack with second weapon.

Attack:


Strength vs AC

Hit:


1W + strength modifier damage

Rain



Your enemies see one missile go into the air, but then three bodies fall.



Daily Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Ranged weapon



Target:


One, two, or three enemies

Attack:


Dexterity vs. AC

Hit:


1W + 10 damage for first target, second 1W + 5 damage, and third

1W + 3 damage.



Iron fist



One strike, one mind, one down.



Daily Martial



Standard Action Melee touch



Requirement:


Must have a free main hand

Attack:


Strength vs. AC

Hit:


2d8 + strength modifier damage and push the target 2 squares.

Level 5 daily



Flashing



You move with lightening speed, appearing behind your enemy, sword



drawn when before it was sheathed. A moment later your enemy falls.



Daily Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Melee weapon



Requirement:


Weapon must be sheathed

Attack:


Strength vs. AC

Hit:


3W + strength modifier damage, and shift during the attack through

your enemies’ space to the other side. If there is no available space, move



to the nearest unoccupied square. You cannot shift more than your speed,



nor more than is necessary to reach the nearest unoccupied square



opposite the target.



Special:


If target is under your Samurai’s Challengeit grants combat

advantage for this attack.



Deft Twins



Two swords whirl about.



Daily Martial, Weapon



Standard Action Melee weapon



Requirement:


Must be wielding two blades

Attack:


Strength vs. AC

Hit:


2W + strength modifier damage

Effect:


Make a secondary attack

Target:


one creature

Attack:


Strength vs. AC

Hit:


1W + strength modifier damage

Special:


If enemy targeted with the secondary attack was not the target of

the first, that enemy grants combat advantage for secondary attack.


Just a few quick thoughts:

First, this is completely unbalanced.  That's fine.  It just needs to be known so everyone can still have fun.

You've given them a striker mechanic (iajutsu) and a defender mechanic (-2 attacks).  You've also given them a ridiculously strong grab attack that the brawler fighter would salivate over.

Defenses are messed up.  Samurai in full garb wore the equivalent of scale armor, so you should allow more than hide.  You've given them a +3 to AC when wielding a sword, which is unnecessary if you change the armor type.  Finally, you've also given them a +2 bonus to one defense and +1 to another.  Standard is +1 and +1, with just a few classes having +1 to all three.

The honor system is an interesting mechanic.  However, the bonuses are over the top.

Finally, the class skills have no relationship to the ability scores of the class.  My suggestion is use the warlord as a basis: strength with either intelligence or charisma.  Then have skills of religion and history or intimidation and diplomacy.  The armor change above means dexterity would be unnecessary, and constitution doesn't particularly add anything.

I did not check hit point levels compared to other classes.  You have some fun stuff in there, but it needs further revision and balancing.
No argument about revision. Like I said, it's still early, with almsot no editing. For armour,  tried to expain that to my friend, but you'd not beleive how adamant he was against it. The bonuses are to balance that lack out. And yeah, he's kinda a between of striker and defender. For Bushido, we wanted something for that kind of option, something to set it apart. A suggestion, if any, would be nice. The Dex is actually for the "archer" build of it, and the short sword. For skills we had tried to do a samurai feel,r ather than just going base by stats, nesesarilly. Samurai is not reall the skill user of the group. Hit points starting rogue, gained paladin, basically. As for honour, that basically is this class's version of builds. Plus since some limit you as a character, they're somewhat more powerful. For example,To fight for riches is cheap Give often to Charity. (+2 Damage)

That's basically, in roleplay, you giving up most of the treasure (yes you would have to roleplay this guy like this.)
Okay, first, try copying the stuff out manually, that's probably the only way you'll fix the formatting (not to mention make it less of an eyesore to read).

Second, unless DEX or INT is the primary stat or your ONLY choices for secondaries, HEAVY ARMOR IS MANDATORY.  AC is the most often targeted defense, and to dump it is CRIPPLING.

Similarly:  +2 to ONE non-AC defense, OR +1 to more than one.  Pick one or the other, can't have both.

Third:  Classes generally have (2*number of trained skills)+1 skills to choose from.  It would be a good idea to expand your list.

Four:  A wakizashi is a short sword.  A katana is a long sword.  A nodachi is a great sword.  You will invite nothing but ire for ignoring this; please remember that no class that gains entire categories of weapon proficiencies gains any superior weapon proficiencies.

Five:  Finally getting to class features!
*Daisho Proficiency:  Unnecessary.  I suggest switching this to encourage use of the weapons in tandem, as with 3.x's samurai.
*Samurai Reflexes:  Broken.  When you wield a weapon in two hands, you are making a conscious choice to have lower AC.  If you feel this is necessary, I recommend dropping it to +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex.
* Bushido:  No.
* Iaijutsu Master/Samurai's Challenge:  Dealing with these together.  +[w] as a damage mechanic is actually somewhat innovative, though I would say barbarians should have gotten it first.  Oh, well.  The problem, though, is that you claim to be a Striker; Samurai's Challenge shouldn't mark.  In addition, the draw/sheath mechanics are very wooly in this game.  My suggestion:  I've tentatively outlined a condition I call menaced.  A menaced creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls that include the creature menacing it as a target; an anti-mark.  Have Samurai's Challenge apply that condition, and expand Iaijutsu Master to apply to any attack made against the menaced creature when it attacks you.
*Honour/Dishonour:  This needs to go.  Now.  If not sooner.  Outside, set it ablaze, huff some bleach, excise it from memory.  We do not have roleplay entwine with mechanics in 4th edition.  Ever.

I will not be looking at the powers unless and until you can get them formatted better.

That all being said, and I'm aware you've declared an intent to ignore this kind of comment, you might in fact be better off building from an existing class.  4e is a fundamentally different beast from previous editions; in 3rd, concept becomes class, while in 4th, class becomes concept, see?  I will, in fact, point out that you could not pay me to use this right now.  Because, yes, a samurai is a fighter.  Hell, it's actually a title that anyone of any class would be able to hold.  But then, when's historical accuracy ever stopped this game?  (I, for one, would like scythes to not suck anymore...) 
First, the katana was a bastard sword, not long. Second, they were masterwork. I tried to make masterwork, since they don't have them, since superior are basically as such. Thogugh I'll suggest removing the other proficencies, or at least altering them.

Second, again, the AC bonus was meant to offset the lack of heavy. His choice.

Third, what's the reason for the skills?

Four, same with defences.

Five, Daisho profiency goes into the simulated masterwork, since that's what they had in 3e. The reflexes are again to offset the AC lack, becausethey dont ahve heavy armour. Again, no heavy was his choice, and I could not convince him otherwise. His logic is laquered armour is light, or medium, not heavy, which is usually metal. I can see where he's comming from, kinda. But I'll suggest your sheild bonus. For Bushido, wanted something for the unarmed, make it an option for samurai. Suggestions? For iajitsu, I'll definetely suggest that to him. As for honour, again, it takes the place of builds. And sure, if this were official roleplay effecting it would be bad, but my groups LOVE to roleplay. I eman LOVE. The group I'm DMing actually goes whole sessions without ever fighting (though i try to throw at least one token fight in there).

And yeah, sorry about the powers format.
One thing about Meanace though. What's the difference between that and marking?
For the first post, Nick, I'm sorry to say your buddy's trying to pull the wool over your eyes.  There is absolutely nothing superior about a katana compared to a European cruciform sword, and in fact the katana pales in comparison due to being lighter, more brittle and having only a single cutting edge.  I'm only going on with... this... because, yes, I'd like to be as helpful as possible when the most helpful option's been refuted in the OP. Undecided

For skills, it's pretty much just to ensure that you can have no two characters of the same class with the same skills.  Defenses, again, he's trying to suck you into an ill-conceived notion of Eastern superiority; a samurai is pretty much just a fighter, that's it.  If, at some point, you decide you'd like a more serious samurai "build" (a fighter could be converted extremely easily) I'd probably find it a bit easier to help with that. Wink

Now, as for roleplay?  Roleplay is roleplay.  Anything that comes of roleplay is up to the DM to decide; anything you post here is assumed to be mercilessly picked apart and then sewn back together until any table should conceivably be able to use it.  If you as a DM want to assign these mechanical bonuses or penalties to how your samurai player(s) behave, go ahead, but it's a bad design choice, as we've learned in 3.5.  No offense to you, but creating a code that can punish your players mechanically for not following it is basically an invitation for the DM to screw them over.  So, yes, my kneejerk is to make it roleplaying suggestions and nothing else.

For menacing?  Note that marking an enemy penalizes that enemy for not attacking you.  Menacing him does the opposite; he takes the penalty when he attacks you.  Which, in retrospect, might not fit too well with the rest of this, hmm...

EDIT:  And before I forget, someone else did get one put up awhile ago.  docs.google.com/file/d/0B9p3-pEMqt9eOTQ0...
Again, we in no way want to just reflavour an existing class. It's just boring, and feels so impersonal. We're also fully aware the east is not superior. The defences are negotiable and alterable. he's right thoguh, about not generally using metal armour.

The katana was sharper, but they both basically did the same cut at the end of the day, because the european longsword was heavier. But the thing is the weapons in 3e had masterwork. I wanted to reflect that. Recall, this is a game where a pixie can push and prone an ancient red. Not going for TOTAL realism (yes, I said that after talking about a real samurai's armour). I wanted said swords to reflect masterwork.

Basically this stuff is going to happen. I'm not really asking to totally amke it work in all games, as per the roleplay mix, just try to help balance it. But yeah, i should have in fact forseen that people would likely do that. Eh. I suppose it'll just have to do a lot more work to make it work. See what some of the other plaers think too.

Sorry, but the honour stuff was loved by everyone in our group and kinda has to stay. Don't get me wrong. I see why you'd hate it. There's no way this would be able to work in a normal game, although they DID introduce an honour sytem in the same magazine (dragon 404) that has the samurai theme (again, not using because it does not make em feel samurai, mechanically).

So thank you guys for the ideas. DEFINETLY gonna suggest menacing, and some of the defence changes, and mention the skills thing. At least you guys weren't dicks. But yeah, as you said, peopel are gonna pick that part apart entirely, so sadly this won't work as I'd hoped. Shame. Oh well. Was just gonna be in my little group anyway.
But can you do it without unbalancing it compared to everyone else at the table?  That's what I'd like to see.  Whatever you end up doing with it, good luck and play well, yah? Cool
Well thats why I'll suggest your suggestions. And the roleplay aspect won't make it unbalanced,a t elast not in my campagns. All DMs involved love roleplaying, and... yeah, in my group that's not going to make a DM screw you over. Certainly not me when I DM. Again, in MY campaigns. Thanks.
Well thats why I'll suggest your suggestions. And the roleplay aspect won't make it unbalanced,a t elast not in my campagns. All DMs involved love roleplaying, and... yeah, in my group that's not going to make a DM screw you over. Certainly not me when I DM. Again, in MY campaigns. Thanks.

Here is a post with some resources regarding making balanced 4e weapons.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Thanks. I'll check it out. Certainly better then me crapping out what I did in 30 minutes.
you should make a custom armor(called yoroi) it would be like lamellar armor it would also be like platemail. also make a katana it would be 1d12 damage and two-handed the class it's self should get a light-warhorse becuse the Samurai had horses and they perfected there art of useing the katana they would end most fights when they drew there swords and the bow(they perfected useing it too) would be called the yumi bow it would do 1d10 damage why the high damage for all the weapons becuse they when they wern't fighting they were training they were the best warriors of their time.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

you should make a custom armor(called yoroi) it would be like lamellar armor it would be like platemail. also make a katana it would be 1d12 damage and two-handed the class it's self should get a light-warhorse becuse the Samurai had horses and they perfected there art of useing the katana they would end most fights when they drew there swords and the bow(they perfected useing it too) would be called the yumi bow it would do 1d10 damage why the high damage for all the weapons becuse they when they wern't fighting they were training they were the best warriors of their time.



...I can only hope you're joking. Foot in Mouth
...I can only hope you're joking. 


I hope he's joking as well.


To the OP: Contrary to popular opinion, samurai used more than just a sword. They also used polearms comparable to the glaive as well as a longbow. They used whatever weapon best suited the battle at hand, much like, say, a fighter.

Their swords - the wakizashi, katana, etc. - were well suited for cutting through flesh, but not metal armor, because there was a scarcity of metal which meant they didn't have to cut through metal armor. I'd actually compare the swords to the scimitar and falchion, personally: High crit weapons. Though that is just personal preference on my part. There isn't any reason to make special weapons for the samurai, because the existing equipment list has perfect equivalents already. Why bother doing more work than you have to?

I agree with a previous statement in the thread that their armor is closer to scale mail. Scale mail doesn't have to be metal and the armor they wore was about as restrictive as scale mail is mechanically.

So, now that I've covered that the samurai used more than just a sword, I think it's safe to say iaijutsu should be removed. Further more, the moral code issues should be strictly roleplaying suggestions that do not provide mechanical benefit. We all know how the 3e Paladin's alignment restrictions tended to work out, so let's not see the class become 3e Paladin 2.0. If you REALLY want to give mechanical benefits for following the code, I suggest a power bonus to Diplomacy as long as the code is followed, to represent the respect gained for adhering to such a strict set of rules. Though perhaps consider having a lower number of rules, so the player doesn't have to double check the list constantly.

Honestly, I'd suggest making the Samurai - the vision you're currently going for, anyway - similar to an Avenger in heavy armor: A striker that can off-tank, with an Oath of Enmity-like effect for Samurai's Challenge instead of marking. This will replace iaijutsu with something beneficial to ALL of the Samurai's weapons, thus making it stand out from the Fighter.

That is, unless you're making them based off anime 'samurai', in which case put them in cloth armor and make them pure melee martial strikers.

And yes, I know you've said you'll ignore anyone that draws comparisons between the Samurai and the Fighter, but comparisons are inevitable, considering you currently have a Martial Defender with a focus on melee combat. While you have the right to ignore anything I've said, I feel it would be a poor choice to ignore it just because I've made comparisons to the fighter.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Do your reserch.
...I can only hope you're joking. 


I hope he's joking as well.


To the OP: Contrary to popular opinion, samurai used more than just a sword. They also used polearms comparable to the glaive as well as a longbow. They used whatever weapon best suited the battle at hand, much like, say, a fighter.

Their swords - the wakizashi, katana, etc. - were well suited for cutting through flesh, but not metal armor, because there was a scarcity of metal which meant they didn't have to cut through metal armor. I'd actually compare the swords to the scimitar and falchion, personally: High crit weapons. Though that is just personal preference on my part. There isn't any reason to make special weapons for the samurai, because the existing equipment list has perfect equivalents already. Why bother doing more work than you have to?

I agree with a previous statement in the thread that their armor is closer to scale mail. Scale mail doesn't have to be metal and the armor they wore was about as restrictive as scale mail is mechanically.

So, now that I've covered that the samurai used more than just a sword, I think it's safe to say iaijutsu should be removed. Further more, the moral code issues should be strictly roleplaying suggestions that do not provide mechanical benefit. We all know how the 3e Paladin's alignment restrictions tended to work out, so let's not see the class become 3e Paladin 2.0. If you REALLY want to give mechanical benefits for following the code, I suggest a power bonus to Diplomacy as long as the code is followed, to represent the respect gained for adhering to such a strict set of rules. Though perhaps consider having a lower number of rules, so the player doesn't have to double check the list constantly.

Honestly, I'd suggest making the Samurai - the vision you're currently going for, anyway - similar to an Avenger in heavy armor: A striker that can off-tank, with an Oath of Enmity-like effect for Samurai's Challenge instead of marking. This will replace iaijutsu with something beneficial to ALL of the Samurai's weapons, thus making it stand out from the Fighter.

That is, unless you're making them based off anime 'samurai', in which case put them in cloth armor and make them pure melee martial strikers.

And yes, I know you've said you'll ignore anyone that draws comparisons between the Samurai and the Fighter, but comparisons are inevitable, considering you currently have a Martial Defender with a focus on melee combat. While you have the right to ignore anything I've said, I feel it would be a poor choice to ignore it just because I've made comparisons to the fighter.



I know that the Samurai used polearms like the naginata if you want that give it 1d12 damage and a +8 attack bounes becuse it was a fast sharp weapon. but it would be hard to keep track of all the weapons I know alot about Samurai. Here is a list of weapons.


  • Japanese swords are the weapons that have come to be synonymous with the samurai. Ancient Japanese swords from the Nara period (Chokutō) featured a straight blade, by the late 900s curved tachi appeared, followed by the uchigatana and ultimately the katana. Smaller commonly known companion swords are the wakizashi and the tantō.[33] Wearing a long sword (katana) or (tachi) together with a smaller sword such as a wakizashi or tantō became the symbol of the samurai, this combination of swords is referred to as a daishō (literally "big and small"). During the Edo period only samurai were allowed to wear a daisho.



  • The yumi (longbow), reflected in the art of kyūjutsu (lit. the skill of the bow) was a major weapon of the Japanese military. Its usage declined with the introduction of the tanegashima (Japanese matchlock) during the Sengoku period, but the skill was still practiced at least for sport.[34] The yumi, an asymmetric composite bow made from bamboowoodrattan and leather, had an effective range of 50 meters (about 164 feet) or 100 meters (328 feet) if accuracy was not an issue. On foot, it was usually used behind a tate (手盾), a large, mobile wooden shield, but the yumi could also be used from horseback because of its asymmetric shape. The practice of shooting from horseback became a Shinto ceremony known as yabusame(流鏑馬).[35]



  • Pole weapons including the yari and naginata were commonly used by the samurai. The yari (Japanese spear) displaced the naginata from the battlefield as personal bravery became less of a factor and battles became more organized around massed, inexpensive foot troops (ashigaru).[citation needed] A charge, mounted or dismounted, was also more effective when using a spear rather than a sword, as it offered better than even odds against a samurai using a sword. In the Battle of Shizugatake where Shibata Katsuie was defeated by Toyotomi Hideyoshi, then known as Hashiba Hideyoshi, seven samurai who came to be known as the "Seven Spears of Shizugatake" (賤ヶ岳七本槍) played a crucial role in the victory.[36]






Various Japanese (samurai)Tanegashima matchlock firearms.




  • Tanegashima (Japanese matchlock) were introduced to Japan in the 1543 through Portuguese trade. Tanegashima were produced on a large scale by Japanese gunsmiths, enabling warlords to raise and train armies from masses of peasants. The new weapons were highly effective, their ease of use and deadly effectiveness led to the tanegashima becoming the weapon of choice over the yumi (bow). By the end of the 16th century, there were more firearms in Japan than in many European nations. Tanegashima—employed en masse, largely by ashigaru peasant foot troops—were responsible for a change in military tactics that eventually led to establishment of the Tokugawa shogunate (Edo period) and an end to civil war. Production of tanegashima declined sharply as there was no need for massive amounts of firearms. During the Edo period, tanegashima were stored away, and used mainly for hunting and target practice. Foreign intervention in the 1800s renewed interest in firearms—but the tanegashima was outdated by then, and various samurai factions purchased more modern firearms from European sources.


          Still want to keep track of them? why not also throw in the kanobo club it would do 1d10 damage and be two-handed. remember I put the big damage becuse the Samuria trained every day. there stats would be well rounded becuse they spent alot of time training there mind as well
Note:I HATE anime. 
Note 2: I spent alot of time studying actual Samurai history. also REAL samurai armor is like lamalar armor it also uses plates it is not at all like scalemail
Note 3:You would have to make custom stuff for the samuria becuse they were unique.
Note 4:they made an art of how they drew there sword. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

Still want to keep track of them? why not also throw in the kanobo club it would do 1d10 damage and be two-handed. remember I put the big damage becuse the Samuria trained every day. there stats would be well rounded becuse they spent alot of time training there mind as well
Note:I HATE anime. 
Note 2: I spent alot of time studying actual Samurai history. also REAL samurai armor is like lamalar armor it also uses plates it is not at all like scalemail
Note 3:You would have to make custom stuff for the samuria becuse they were unique.


My point is that you don't have to keep track of most of those weapons, because mechanical statistics for them already exist, under a different name.

So you're advocating giving them unique, high damage weapons and better stats because they 'train every day'? Would you give the same bonuses to a Fighter that trains every day? Or a rogue? If you wouldn't, then you don't understand game balance. Why should Samurais get all these benefits when ALL PCs are assumed to be well trained for combat?

Furthermore, you're completely missing my point about armor. I said, mechanically, a samurai's armor would be equivilant to scale mail. It isn't as durable as Plate, but not as restrictive as Chain, hence lower AC than Plate but also lower penalties.

And Samurai were not unique. Soldiers trained to use multiple weapons, soldiers that train frequently and soldiers with a strict code of conduct are not unique. But even as I type this, I realize nothing I say will sway your opinion.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Still want to keep track of them? why not also throw in the kanobo club it would do 1d10 damage and be two-handed. remember I put the big damage becuse the Samuria trained every day. there stats would be well rounded becuse they spent alot of time training there mind as well
Note:I HATE anime. 
Note 2: I spent alot of time studying actual Samurai history. also REAL samurai armor is like lamalar armor it also uses plates it is not at all like scalemail
Note 3:You would have to make custom stuff for the samuria becuse they were unique.


My point is that you don't have to keep track of most of those weapons, because mechanical statistics for them already exist, under a different name.

So you're advocating giving them unique, high damage weapons and better stats because they 'train every day'? Would you give the same bonuses to a Fighter that trains every day? Or a rogue? If you wouldn't, then you don't understand game balance. Why should Samurais get all these benefits when ALL PCs are assumed to be well trained for combat?

Furthermore, you're completely missing my point about armor. I said, mechanically, a samurai's armor would be equivilant to scale mail. It isn't as durable as Plate, but not as restrictive as Chain, hence lower AC than Plate but also lower penalties.

And Samurai were not unique. Soldiers trained to use multiple weapons, soldiers that train frequently and soldiers with a strict code of conduct are not unique. But even as I type this, I realize nothing I say will sway your opinion.



first of all stop being a troll. second of all I did my studying. did you? I also put high damage becuse there all two-handed and yes they are unique they made the best sword in history.
P.S. Stop being a troll. also fighters and rouges would spend a day or two in the inn a week the Samuria only trained perfecting there art the only warriors in history that can compar to the samuria are the spartans(you started your training as a sparten when you turned 7. no I did not base this off the movie 300.). give samuria a disadvantage have it if they lose an encounter there done never to play agin.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

and yes they are unique they made the best sword in history.

I'd be willing to be that a Roman short sword killed more people in its lifetime of use than any samurai weapon ever did.


EDIT:  Sure, the katana and its family are beautifully crafted weapons, but we don't measure best on quality alone.  People still kill eachother with old Soviet assault rifles that have been buried in the deserts of the Middle East for decades.  You can't do that with better guns today.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

first of all stop being a troll. second of all I did my studying. did you? I also put high damage becuse there all two-handed and yes they are unique they made the best sword in history.
P.S. Stop being a troll.


How am I being a troll? I explained why I disagree with your sentiment and gave my reasons for why: If an existing weapon could suit the weapon you wish to create, there's no reason to create an entirely new type of weapon. ESPECIALLY if they're going to be mathematically superior to existing weapons, as that unbalances the game.

Does claiming nothing I say will sway your opinion make me a troll? Because thus far, you've proven that sentiment correct. I've cited reasons your ideas wouldn't work within the game system, to which you replied, essentially, "No, samurai are just BETTER than everyone else!"

also fighters and rouges would spend a day or two in the inn a week the Samuria only trained perfecting there art the only warriors in history that can compar to the samuria are the spartans(you started your training as a sparten when you turned 7. no I did not base this off the movie 300.).


So a samurai doesn't stop to rest, then? You do know that rest is vital to improving health and strength, right? I can speak from personal experience that a lack of rest makes an individual very unhealthy.

I've had a sleep disorder for years and I haven't gone a week since it manifested without catching one illness or another.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)

I'd also like to point out that swords of the katana family are comparatively pretty brittle weapons.  There’s a reason sword breaking weapons like the Jitte and stories about peasants who swallowed stones to shatter the blades of Japanese sword testers exist.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I didn't say they didn't sleep or eat. also let's just stop this argument.
 http://armorgames.com/play/7229/lucky-tower
play this game it's funny and should lighten your sprits.
A note on katanas. they were made to slash and stab if you hit a katana aganst a stone it would break and it's not that brittle. it uses a softer meatl on the inside and a harder one on the out side brittle=Sharp soft=hard to break the katana was made to be the best sword that existed.
No just play the game it's funny and good but also short. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

I didn't say they didn't sleep or eat. also let's just stop this argument.
 http://armorgames.com/play/7229/lucky-tower
play this game it's funny and should lighten your sprits.
A note on katanas. they were made to slash and stab if you hit a katana aganst a stone it would break and it's not that brittle. it uses a softer meatl on the inside and a harder one on the out side brittle=Sharp soft=hard to break the katana was made to be the best sword that existed.
No just play the game it's funny and good but also short. 


So you say to stop the argument, then you go right back into the argument over katanas, trying to make yourself out to be an expert.

And I don't care about some random game. I came into this thread to help devise the mechanics for a homebrew class and to ensure they are statistically balanced. A fact you've gone out of your way to ignore, since you spent the entire argument vaunting the Samurai's inherent superiority. Your best justification for why they should be better than every other class in the game amounted to "Because they should." Which is not in any way an acceptable justification.

But regardless, I'm fed up with you, so you get to be the very first person on my ignore list.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
I didn't say they didn't sleep or eat. also let's just stop this argument.
 http://armorgames.com/play/7229/lucky-tower
play this game it's funny and should lighten your sprits.
A note on katanas. they were made to slash and stab if you hit a katana aganst a stone it would break and it's not that brittle. it uses a softer meatl on the inside and a harder one on the out side brittle=Sharp soft=hard to break the katana was made to be the best sword that existed.
No just play the game it's funny and good but also short. 


So you say to stop the argument, then you go right back into the argument over katanas, trying to make yourself out to be an expert.

And I don't care about some random game. I came into this thread to help devise the mechanics for a homebrew class and to ensure they are statistically balanced. A fact you've gone out of your way to ignore, since you spent the entire argument vaunting the Samurai's inherent superiority. Your best justification for why they should be better than every other class in the game amounted to "Because they should." Which is not in any way an acceptable justification.

But regardless, I'm fed up with you, so you get to be the very first person on my ignore list.



I've never met someone so deserving of it... by the way, KC, how's your gunmage coming along? Tongue Out
Just stop the argument you have ruined this thread for me and that makes you a troll. so just stop.
This is you. Note this is the famous Troll Face

This is me Note This is the famouse Me Gusta

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

More unhelpful BS



Excuse me?  We're trolls?  We've done nothing but offer constructive criticism to help make the OP's wishes come true within context of the system.  You've come along and spouted nothing but absolute nonsense in an attempt to derail that in favor of some ill-conceived superiority which, by the way, never existed.

And, at the moment, trying to turn to argument ad hominem in order to make yourself look better, complete with inaccurate, though slightly amusing, pictures.  To be honest, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until that crap started.  So!  In the interest of maintaining the (remaining) sanity of all involved, I am going to have to beg collective amnesia.

To whit, forgetting you ever posted anything.  Good day, sir or madam, and may your privates be stung by the fleas of a thousand syphilitic she-camels. 

Again you ruined this thread for me. good bye. Both of you are now blocked.
So FU. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

To whit, forgetting you ever posted anything.


Who are you speaking to, Eisenritter? You look awfully silly posting replies to no one.


But anyway, to the OP: I love the idea of the Samurai and I want to help you make your vision reality, and make it clearly distinct from the Fighter, but I'm also concerned about making it a balanced and fair class. As the class is now, it will make a lot of the existing classes obsolete. The huge bonuses and number of features means the Samurai is effectively a striker and defender at the same time. You even have skill bonuses in their code, which will mean they'll dominate non-combat encounters as well.

Trust me, I speak from experience when I say no one enjoys feeling like the fifth wheel in a gaming group. And the Samurai will make at least some of the other PCs superfluous.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Wow... I leave for a little while....

It can be discussed, the skill bonuses. (Remember, they're only picking five. Plus they loose acess to those five if they become dishonered.)

Now here's the thing. As I've already said, I know that NORMALLY one cannot mix roleplay and mechanics. But all the DMs I'm involved with simply do not take unfair advantage like that, including myself. It simply doesn't happen. So yes, I understand what you guys are saying when it comes to the honour system, but this WILL work in my groups. MY groups. If you don't think it will work in yours, well so be it. Mine will not ahve any issues with it. And hell, if they do, we can always remove the system entirely. Long way from playtesting, afterall.

Also the katana, at the end of the day, in reality, made the same cut as the cruciform longsword (standard DND longsword). Katana because it had a sharper edge, and long because it was heavier. Both blunted and shattered fairly easilly. Katana could bend more,  long could withstand hits more. Neither could bend TOO much, and neither could stop an actual strike much better than the other. It's why almost no sword fighting actually focuses on the blade on blade parry. It's useless. It can too easilly blunt or break the blade. All of them. Movie sword fights should more often end in a bludgeoning death, not a stabbing one.
Alright, here's my feedback.

First, on making katana a weapon.  Don't do it.  You've stated that you want something like the masterwork weapons from 3e.  Just do that.  Completely separate from your homebrew samurai class, just bring back the Masterwork Weapons rule from 3.5.  It's a very simple rule, pay 300 extra gold for +1 to hit, but not to damage.  I'd lower that to maybe 100-200 for 4e, because a level 1 magic weapon is already 320, but even that much is optional.  Bring back the Masterwork Weapons rule, then say that Katana and Wakizashi can only ever be masterwork.  

Second, on the honor/dishonor mechanics.  Like the others, I too don't like roleplaying mechanics like this.  It's just that it so drastically undermines the roleplaying.  It's like if you paid someone to hang out with you.  If they were really your friend, they'd do it for free.  By the same token, players who want to roleplay being Lawful Good will generally do it anyway, and those who don't will do just enough to skate by.  However, you've stated that the honor stuff is in, so I'll give my feedback to try and make it as good as we can.

First, mother of god, you do not need 45 creeds.  Not only is this a lot of creeds to keep track of, a lot of them seem so boring.  They're less like important ideals, and more like japan-flavored character quirks.  And they're all over the map for the strength of the bonuses.  Keep the bonuses about equal.  If someone picks a harder creed, that's on them.  Overall, though, I'd cut the many-creeds thing.  Consider dropping it down to the seven core tenets of Bushido, and ask each samurai to pick one tenet that they want to exemplify above the others(but make them follow all seven).

 The other problem with your honor mechanic is that it is, like so many previous D&D roleplay mechanics, a Binary Punishment mechanic.  

First, the Binary part.  Under your system, you're always either Honorable or Dishonorable.  There's no grey area, no middle ground, no shades of honor.  You're entirely fine, right up until it's seppuku time.  This is bad because it devalues the idea of small changes in honor.  Let's say someone had your "Must hold tea ceremonies" creed.  Now, they're an adventurer, they do adventures, so at some point they end up out of civilized society for long enough to miss their ceremony.  They get a little dishonor.  But it doesn't matter.  Even if the player is roleplaying it, they can afford to take this hit.

Second, the Punishment bit.  Under your system, a 1st level character, who is presumably untested in real tough situations, is already as honorable as he'll ever be.  There's nowhere to go but down, and the line is drawn between staying on par and sucking.  This is great if you want people to just do the bare minimum of honor stuff to avoid losing most of their class, but if we want people to roleplay, we can do better than that.  Don't make it a punishment mechanic.  Make it a reward mechanic.  Give your samurai something to aspire to.  And don't just make it one "level", make it scale, so that after reaching one thing, there's another to reach for.

I'd consider something like this:  Each samurai is bound to follow the seven tenets of Bushido.  Whenever a samurai goes above and beyond the call of duty, and truly exemplifies one of the seven tenets, he gains a point of honor.  Should the samurai shirk his duty, or shame himself, he may lose a point of honor.  When dealing with daimyo, other samurai, or any person who is part of his feudal society or might be impressed by his reputation, the samurai gains +X on all social rolls, where X equals his Honor.  

In addition, you could put on some extra benefits at certain levels.  Like maybe at level 3, the samurai is a welcomed guest at the Imperial Court.  At level 5, perhaps he is an Honored Guest.  At level 7, perhaps rookie samurai seek the PC out and ask him to train them.  Use your imagination.  Come up with reasons why being honorable is awesome, instead of why being dishonorable sucks.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Just a +1 to attack, huh? On top of what the weapon already does? That might actualy work fine. I won't object to that.


For the honour, just last night we redid some of the scores. 45 was because i just kept going, and as for it being all over the place, sure they are, but that's mainly for variety. But I'd like to keep the pick five thing, as it replaces different builds, since, well, this doesnt have them, outside using bow, one sword, two swords or unarmed. And yeah, none of you have noticed that stuff because the moves are impossible to read there. Again, sorry about those. But they basically go 1 move for single sword, 1 for 2 sword, 1 for bow, and 1 for unarmed.

For the honour, Ill discuss a reward to him. Thing is, with the roleplaying, you'd get some other possible bonuses. You know, normal roleplaying stuff, depending on how honourable you are. Hard to explain, but I hope you get what I mean. But I'll talk to him about it. We hadn't actually considered that, outside of the basic "you keep your class stuff". Well, we KINDA did, because with how we play you'd get more respect and such, maybe higher rewards, etc, as in it would actually be roleplayed as having higher honour. Hell, roleplay wise you wouldn'ts tart out as honourable as you can, you just start mechanically at max. You can always improve your relations, etc. But a basic mechanic behind it, I'll mention. Thanks.
Just a +1 to attack, huh? On top of what the weapon already does? That might actualy work fine. I won't object to that.


Yeah, I know, right?  It's a really simple rule, easy to bring back. 

For the honour, just last night we redid some of the scores. 45 was because i just kept going, and as for it being all over the place, sure they are, but that's mainly for variety. But I'd like to keep the pick five thing, as it replaces different builds, since, well, this doesnt have them, outside using bow, one sword, two swords or unarmed.

If you want the player to pick builds, go for something with the different weapon styles.  You've already got the seeds of four builds with that alone.  You don't need the creeds if you do that.  As builds, the creeds just feel weak.  They don't provide much in the way of roleplay variation or mechanical variation.  For the player to have creeds is fine, but they aren't a good tool for the goal you seem to be trying to use them for.

And yeah, none of you have noticed that stuff because the moves are impossible to read there. Again, sorry about those. But they basically go 1 move for single sword, 1 for 2 sword, 1 for bow, and 1 for unarmed.

Sorry.  I've tried to read the moves more than once, but that formatting really makes it hell.  From what I've seen, you should have some moves that don't demand any of the four styles, because right now, you've got four moves for four styles.  At least give someone who sticks to their style a choice of moves to use while doing it.  Additionally, all of the at-wills are horribly underpowered.  The bow at-will is literally a ranged basic attack, except worse because it requires a bow.

For the honour, Ill discuss a reward to him. Thing is, with the roleplaying, you'd get some other possible bonuses. You know, normal roleplaying stuff, depending on how honourable you are. Hard to explain, but I hope you get what I mean. But I'll talk to him about it. We hadn't actually considered that, outside of the basic "you keep your class stuff". Well, we KINDA did, because with how we play you'd get more respect and such, maybe higher rewards, etc, as in it would actually be roleplayed as having higher honour. Hell, roleplay wise you wouldn'ts tart out as honourable as you can, you just start mechanically at max. You can always improve your relations, etc. But a basic mechanic behind it, I'll mention. Thanks.


I do get what you mean.  Handling all the roleplay stuff via roleplay and not mechanics, like you're doing for his rewards now, is what everyone has tried to suggest that you do for the whole thing.  I think that's much better, overall, that it makes for more rich and rewarding roleplaying than having mechanics for it does.  But, you wanted roleplaying mechanics, so I tried to help make them work.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
The level 1 encounters are (we came up with them after) all essentially powering shouts, based on the Kiai from 3e's samurai. Well, "shouts". Theyre kindacloser to utilities, albiet focoused more on combat. So essentially they're, at level 1, not weapon specific. Only have level 1, and 2 level 5 attacks right now, so over time there will be mroe neutral ones.

And I'll mention the at wills. They seemed fine to me, but I wouldn't object to making them more powerful. I was just afraid of overpowering them.

Here's my suggested revisions.


Samurai

Role: Striker
Source: Martial and Psionic
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom
Armor Prof. Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon: Simple melee, simple ranged, military heavy blades, military polearms,  swordsword, bastard sword, shortbow, longbow
 Bonus to Def. +1 Fort, + 1 Will
HP at 1st lvl: 12 + Con
HP/level: 6
Surges: 7 + Con 
 Trained Skills: Athletics, choose three more trained skills at level 1.
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Diplomacy, Endurance, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Religion, Perception, Streetwise, Stealth. 

 Samurai's Blade: Your Samurai creed is embodied by your weapons; pristine items of the highest quality and worksmanship, you treat them with the upmost respect and care, for their strength is the difference between your life and death. Choose up to two weapons (including unarmed strikes) with which you are proficient. Most Samurai choose a pair of swords (a "Daishou"), one longer than the other, but Samurai of different regions often have very different fighting styles.
     Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with the chosen weapons, and each weapon is treated as if it had the High Crit property. In addition, you may use Dexterity instead of Strength for  the attack rolls and damage rolls of basic attacks you make with the chosen weapon.

 Unmatched Reflexes: You gain the Quick Draw feat as a bonus feat. When you draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to make a basic attack, you have combat advantage for that attack. In addition, you gain the Unseen Counterstrike power.

Unseen Counterstrike 
Blah blah Iajutsu
 
At-Will (special), Martial 
Minor Action Close Burst 
5/10/15 (per tier)
Target: One creature
Effect: You choose an enemy within the burst and study its movements carefully, giving it a -2 penalty to attack rolls against you. In addition, if the target makes an attack against you before the end of your next turn you may shift 1 square and make a basic attack against the target as an immediate interrupt. Your basic attack deals additional damage according to your level.
Level 1-10: +1[W]  extra damage.
Level 11-20: +2[W] extra damage.
Level 21-30: +3[W] extra damage.
Special: You may use this power only once per round.  

 Honor's Reward
 
As a Samurai you are sworn to live by a strict code of respect and discipline, and your honor is an integral part of who you are; when you live in honor, you find peace and tranquility in battle, while each stain against your name causes you stress and distracts your thoughts when you need to focus. 
     Your Samurai must live by a code of honor, to be agreed upon by you and your DM. As long as you live up to your code you suffer no penalties, nor do you gain any particular benefits. However, when you go above and beyond to live by your creed, or you commit an act which goes against your honor, then you gain or lose one point of honor. Honor points are cumulative, and are permanent unless lost by a dishonorable action. Depending on how many honor points you have, you gain certain benefits because of your confidence and reputation for excellence.

Honor Points === Benefit
1-2 = You gain a +2 bonus to diplomacy checks, intimdiate checks, and streetwise checks when dealing with people who have heard of and respect your reputation.
3-4 = You gain a + 2 bonus to Initiative, and the above bonus increases to +5.
5-6 = You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls, and a +2 bonus to damage rolls.
7-8= You gain a +1 bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will
9-10: You gain a +1 bonus to AC
10+ = All of the previous bonuses are doubled. 

Dishonor: When your honor point total drops below zero, you gain a penalty corresponding to the benefit of your honor point total's opposite integer (e.g. at -5 honor points you gain a -1 penalty to attack rolls and a -2 penalty to damage rolls). 

Absolution or Vilification: At your DM's discretion, your honor point total may fluctuate very rapidly depending on the magnitude of your actions. For example, even if you have 100 honor points, burning down an orphanage and murdering any child that crawls out is probably going to totally drop your honor into the negatives. Conversely, even a notorious villain or pariah can occasionally perform a heroic deed which changes everyone's opinion of them. If you are unhappy with your current honor rank, consult your DM for possible ways to raise (or lower) your rank through questing or performing some other penance for your misdeeds. 

Bushido Style
Choose one of the following options.

Focused Blade: While you are wielding a one-handed weapon and have your other hand free, you do not grant combat advantage from being flanked as long as you are able to make opportunity attacks. In addition, you gain a bonus to saving throws against Fear, Charm, and Illusion attacks. The bonus is equal to your Wisdom modifier. 

Blademaster: While you are wielding a weapon in two hands, you gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your Wisdom or Constitution modifier. In addition, you gain an Expertise Feat of your choice as a bonus feat.

Divine Wind: While you are wielding two weapons, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex. In addition, when you miss with a melee basic attack while wielding two weapons, you may deal damage equal to your Constitution modifier to one creature adjacent to you. The damage increases to 5 + your Constitution modifier at 11th level, and 10 + your Constitution modifier at 21st level. 

Crushing Force: You gain a +3 proficiency bonus with unarmed attacks, and your unarmed strike deals 1d8 damage. In addition, when you hit a target with a melee attack you may make a grab attempt as a minor action, with a +4 bonus to the attack roll. The bonus increases to +6 at 11th level, and +8 at 21st level. 

Rider on the Storm: You gain the Bow Expertise and Mounted Combat Feats as bonus feats. In addition, when you make a ranged basic attack or charge attack you may add your Wisdom modifier to the damage roll. If you are mounted, the bonus increased by 2/4/6 (per tier).

 

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