What is Casual?

48 posts / 0 new
Last post
As a Legacy player who has spent three years building his Nic Fit list and still has not finished it, I find Casual to be for impulsive players who would rather spend $20 each week for several, weaker decks instead of saving up and constructing something much more potent, whether it is a netdeck or a homebrew or something in between.

Also, I should also mention that casual to the rest of my playgroup is pretty much "no restrictions other than cost", especially to my best friend. I don't feel like playing against dredge or reanimator without a solid list because, well, they aren't very interactive unless you can hate them out. A few of my playgroup do realize this, and tend to build slower combos (my favorite is my other friend's Precursor Golem with Polymorph and Shape Anew deck) or forgo combo all together.

I don't know ... maybe I'm just salty, because I don't consider myself a Spike at all (otherwise I'd build permission or combo instead of ramp-control). So, what is casual to you?
Casual to me is anything where there is no prize on the line. Lack of expense or deck potency has nothing to do with it, although most of my groups prioritize fun for the whole group higher than winning. But casual SHOULD be defined by whether or not there is a prize on the line. Format can also define, although every group I've ever played in at least repects the Vintage banned/restricted lists. There is no lack of expensive cards at our table (which is multi-player more often than not), nor is there a lack of desire to win. What makes it different from competitive play is that everyone actually cares that everyone is having fun.

In short, limiting MTG by card cost is not casual play, it's GIMP play. Big difference. Tongue Out
Casual, in my opinion, is a format dictated by the deck builder's idea of "fun," mitigated by one's playgroup. some people have highly competitive play groups where running vintage power decks is the norm and the player wants to keep competitive, because no one enjoys losing every game. and other groups have lower power decks typically a mash up of older players who are set in their old deck archtypes (slide, miracle grow, sligh) and just enjoy playing them over and over again, and newer players who dont like the competitive settings like fnm or draft and just want to build decks to enjoy their corpsejack menance, or harvester of souls they pulled, and find playing with the older players often helps them learn the game better and gives them solid advice on deck building. 
then again there are those "any thing goes" play groups, who basically give a crap about restrictions or whether or not you can run four ponder and four skullclamp in a deck. typically these players aim for some goofy end with their rule breakings, like my friend who ran four tinkers just so he could consistantly t3 darksteel colossus, and they're playgroups allow it because they just want to do something equally goofy with their decks.  because seriously glare of subdual hasnt been good since ravnica the first time around, yet i still find it to be one of my favorite cards (not including my namesake of course). 
hope my point came out clearly, thanks for reading 
the casual=no restrictions would piss me off^^ sounds like the opposite of casual to me....

i guess im on the casual=less potent decks train.

casual for me is being able to build almost anything/any strategy and expect to do decently. Competitive narrows the thousands of cards in the game to a few hundred viable ones and ruin the game - removing restriction would make it even worse.
= Baby don't Spike me
Show
Obligatory and Preliminary Smiley Reservoir: IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/Wee.png)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/Dancing%20AIM.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/rawr.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/ghgh.png)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/%5D%5D.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/luv.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/circle.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sly.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/turtle.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/jade.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wilson.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/pcXQL.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/blushing.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.png)
Casual for me is uneditted decks. I used to edit and play around, but really, the fun part for me was not even looking at a deck I just bought until I used it in a game.

I also love booster wars.
Casual, in my opinion, is a format dictated by the deck builder's idea of "fun," mitigated by one's playgroup. some people have highly competitive play groups where running vintage power decks is the norm and the player wants to keep competitive, because no one enjoys losing every game. and other groups have lower power decks typically a mash up of older players who are set in their old deck archtypes (slide, miracle grow, sligh) and just enjoy playing them over and over again, and newer players who dont like the competitive settings like fnm or draft and just want to build decks to enjoy their corpsejack menance, or harvester of souls they pulled, and find playing with the older players often helps them learn the game better and gives them solid advice on deck building. 
then again there are those "any thing goes" play groups, who basically give a crap about restrictions or whether or not you can run four ponder and four skullclamp in a deck. typically these players aim for some goofy end with their rule breakings, like my friend who ran four tinkers just so he could consistantly t3 darksteel colossus, and they're playgroups allow it because they just want to do something equally goofy with their decks.  because seriously glare of subdual hasnt been good since ravnica the first time around, yet i still find it to be one of my favorite cards (not including my namesake of course). 
hope my point came out clearly, thanks for reading 



100% in agreement with this guy^
I think there's also going to be a lot of debate over what constitutes "casual" play between the older and younger players, simply because the way the game is played has changed so many times. Too many people think that a tier 1 Standard deck is the pinnacle of play. It is in THAT format, but nowhere else.

The reason that "casual" has never been defined as a format is that it takes into consideration the actual playgroup like Reveillark said. It takes into consideration what people are comfortable and happy playing both with and against. Relaxation is a big part of it without the stress of worrying about "winning and moving to the next round".

Casual really can't be defined. SHOULDN'T really be defined. That's precisely what makes it "casual"
Thanks Reveillark: that sounds like the best definition of casual I've heard. I guess what really gets me is that my best friend warps our playgroup's mitigation severely, what with dredge and reanimator (oh, and Legacy Burn). Then again, he's started making other decks, so maybe that will help curb my anxiety.
It's just some good kitchen table play for me. In my group we follow all restrictions and rules that tournaments follow, but we don't have banned card lists or format restrictions. I play mostly modern, but one of my friends plays almost all legacy. We do have a general "no douchey moves" policy, though. Land destruction and purposefully misleading someone about a card's function fits into that category.
What happens if someone drops an ante card? There has to be SOME kind of banned/restriction respect there. And same here about douchey moves policy (the old OLD school group called it a "no cheese" policy), but the problem is that bad form is subjective. If only one person at the table has a problem with someone's move, is it an issue? It's a fine line that is usually left up to the player ticking everyone off to refrain from doing it a second time, or run the risk of not being invited to the next game session.
Thanks Reveillark: that sounds like the best definition of casual I've heard. I guess what really gets me is that my best friend warps our playgroup's mitigation severely, what with dredge and reanimator (oh, and Legacy Burn). Then again, he's started making other decks, so maybe that will help curb my anxiety.


yeah there is always someone super spikish in every meta, casual or constructed, theres typically someone who wants that "w" more than keeping it fun for everyone and unfortunately theres not much to do about it. But i can say that if you run enough multiplayers and everyone hates him out early that person more than likely will get the point that he should stop being a douche. 
I consider casual anything played with no prize.

If you're playing with friends/groups for fun, that's casual.  I don't think power/deck cost should specifically be a concern.  That should come down to the group you play with and what type of game everyone is looking for at the time.  As far as restrictions, we follow Vintage rules normally, maybe Legacy.  In EDH we follow the band list (mostly) but not as strictly.  However, if one of us is running a band list card we mention it and if the group has a big issue we switch it out.  For example, I'll be running Griselbrand in my Kaalia deck except the games my friends/group specifically ask me not too (or if I know ahead of time that group specifically doesn't run any band cards).

I've noticed everyone hating on Reanimator; why is that?  It's a fun deck to play and I've always found it to be one of my favourite deck types.  That and Recurring Nightmare decks.  I have nothing against simple fun decks; I love Burn and maybe a green ramp or elf deck, but I'm not going to avoid playing with cards I like because it happens to be a strong combo.  This is also because I don't play in tournaments, ecept the occasional booster draft.  Now, if my friend decides he's going to run his Elf/Overrun deck I won't run my Reanimator because I know he has nothing is that deck that can stop it, so I'd maybe run Slivers or burn or something.

Personally I find that as I don't have much of a collection it's easier/more cost effective to just buy the cards I want to make a deck and trade the occasional ones I get at booster drafts.  I still buy the occasional booster but thats about it.
Causal to me is just when you get a bunch of friends together and have fun.  No pts awarded or prizes at the end of the night.  Now my friends and I do follow the vintage rules though.  I personally feel that you need to follow this.  If not then i run 4 of all the power nine and just throw in some forks and burn spells and kill everyone on buy turn 2 or 3.  It would be much fun.  Also i would think a newer player would like to lose their Jace, the Mind sculptor to an ante card.

I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
 

How to autocard
 

Most important rule in autocarding is make sure you spell the card correctly.

 

Single Card

[*c]Forest[*/c] minus * = Forest

 

Deck

[*deck]

16 Forest

2 strip mine

[*/deck]

minus * =

Card Nicknames [*c=Wrath of God]WoG[*/c] minus the * = WoG

 

Single Player Decks I'm currently playing

Assault of the Minotaurs

Lands
19 Mountain
4 Khalni Garden
1 Thawing Glaciers

 

Artifacts
4 Didgeridoo
4 Gorgon Flail
1 Konda's Banner
1 Tenza, Godo's Maul

 

Spells
4 Assault Strobe

 

Creatures
4 Adaptive Automaton
4 Anaba Ancestor
4 Minotaur Aggressor
4 Talruum Minotaur
4 Gorehorn Minotaurs
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero

Rapid infenction

Lands

18 Forest
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven

 

Creatures
4 Glistener Elf
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr

 

Spells
4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Griant Growth
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing

Use your Illusion

Lands
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths

Creatures
4 Krovikan Mist
3 Phantom Warrior
3 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Adaptive Automaton
3 Illusory Angel

Artifacts
2 Swiftfoot Boots

Spells
3 Sleep
4 Ponder
4 Muddle the Mixture

Goblin deck

Land

16 Mountain

4 Goblin Burrows

 

Spells
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Goblin War Strike
2 Brightstone Ritual
2 Quest for the Goblin Lord

 

Creatures
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Balloon Brigade
3 Goblin Guide
2 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin King
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss

Look out the Land is Falling

Lands
4 Evoling Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Plains
9 Forest

Spells
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Cultivate
3 Groundswell

Enchantments
4 Oblivion Ring

Artifacts
2 Adventuring Gear

Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Ruin Ghost
2 Baloth Woodcrasher
2 Rampaging Baloths
4 Emeria Angel
4 Vinelasher Kudzu

Ula's Deep Sea Drezins

Lands
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths

Creatures
4 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Kraken Hatchling
3 Sage of Epityr
4 Stormtide Leviathan
2 Grozoth
3 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Cursecatcher


Enchantment
4 Quest for Ula's Temple

Spells
4 Preordain
4 Dizzy Spell
4 Clockspinning

Green Beatdown

Lands

18 Forest
4 Treetop Village


Spells
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
2 Might of Oaks

Creatures
4 Albino Troll
4 Groundbreaker
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Viridian Zealot
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Leatherback Baloth
3 River Boa
1 Mire Boa

Elemental Assault

Lands
16 Mountain
4 Teetering Peaks

Spells
4 Lightning bolt
3 Breaking Point
1 Warstorm Surge
4 Brute Force
4 Browbeat
4 Assault Strobe

Creatures
4 Ball Lightning
4 Hell's Thunder
4 Blistering Firecat
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Spark Elemental
2 Lightning Serpent

Death from the Sky

Land
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Azorius Chancery
4 Seaside Haven
5 Plains
5 Island

 

Creatures
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Soulcatcher
4 Judge's Familar
3 Augury Owl
3 Cloudreach Cavalry
3 Pride of Clouds
2 Emeria Angel
2 Aven Mimeomancer
1 God of Awe

 

Spells
4 Soulcatchers' Aerie
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Battle Screech
2 Airborne Raid

Stompy

Lands
18 Forest

Creatures
3 Garruk's Companion
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Pouncing Jaguar
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Shinen of Life's Roar

Spells
3 Groundswell
4 Rancor
3 Gather Courage
3 Briar Shield
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Fog

Multi-Player Decks I'm currently Playing

Discard

Lands
22 Swamp

 

Spells
4 Innocent Blood
4 Mutilate
4 Sign in Blood

2 Syphon Mind
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Enchantments
4 Necrogen Mists
4 Bottomless Pit
4 Shrieking Affliction

Artifacts
4 Wheel of Torture
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Bottled Cloister

Everyone Burns

18 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Glacial Chasm
1 Shivan Gorge

Creatures
4 Aether Membrane

Artifacts
3 Sun Droplet

Enchantments
4 Quest for Pure Flame

Spells
4 Sizzle
4 Flame Rift
4 Browbeat
4 Flamebreak
4 Acidic Soil
3 Breaking Point
3 Breath of Darigaaz

Brewing a Storm

Lands
2 Glacial Chasm
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Greypelt Refuge
4 Brushland
4 Forest
5 Plains

Spells
3 Wrath of God
2 Hurricane


Enchantment
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Titania's Song
2 Aura of Silence
2 Kismet
1 Fastbond

 

Artifacts
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Storm Cauldron
4 Ankh of Mishra
2 Sun Droplet
1 Venser's Journal
2 Horn of Greed
4 Iron Maiden
4 Darksteel Ingot

Beast Gone Wild

Lands
3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Contested Cliffs
4 Kazandu Refuge
4 Gruul Turf
1 Yavimaya Hollow
8 Forest

 

Creatures
4 Krosan Warchief
4 Wirewood Savage
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Rampaging Baloths
2 Spearbreaker Behemoth
2 Mold Shambler
2 Terra Stomper
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gruul Ragebeast
1 Silklash Spider
1 Copperhoof Vorrac
1 Ursapine
1 Molder Slug
1 Protean Hulk

 

Enchantments
4 Wild Growth
2 Warstorm Surge
1 Spidersilk Armor

 

Planeswalker
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Elven Rythym Nation

Lands
14 Forest
2 Wirewood Lodge
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Pendelhaven

 

Creatures
3 Joraga Warcaller
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Priest of Titania
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Imperious Perfect

 

Spells
1 Asceticism
2 Biorhythm
2 Hurricane
2 Eldrazi Monument

I want to drink your blood

Lands
18 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
2 Cabal Coffers

 

Creatures
4 Pulse Tracker
3 Blood Artist
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Falkenrath Noble
2 Bloodline Keeper

 

Enchantments
3 Underworld Connections
1 No Mercy
1 Phyrexian Reclamation

 

Spells
4 Syphon Soul
4 Blood Tithe
3 Exsanguinate

Draw equals Pain

Land
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Deserted Temple
2 Reliquary Tower
3 Island
2 Mountain

 

Creatures
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
2 Jace's Archivist
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon
4 Psychosis Crawler

 

Artifacts
4 Howling Mine
4 Iron Maiden
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
1 Ivory Tower

 

Spells
4 Winds of Change
4 Molten Psyche
2 Copy Artifact
2 Sunder
2 Cyclonic Rift

Rainbow Sliver

Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Breeding Pool

 

Creatures
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Acidic Sliver
1 Sliver Overlord
1 Essence Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Brood Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Fury Sliver

 

Spells
3 Distant Melody
1 Creeping Renaissance

 

Artifacts
2 Door of Destinies

soldier

Lands
22 Plains
2 Emeria, Sky Ruin

 

Creatures
4 Veteran Swordsmith
4 Daru Warchief
3 Field Marshal
3 Knight-Captain of Eos
3 Captain of the Watch
3 Catapult Master
2 Loxodon Gatekeeper
2 Angel of Glory's Rise
2 Stormfront Riders
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
1 Odric, Master Tactician

 

Spells
4 Skullclamp
2 Eldrazi Monument
1 Mobilization

 

Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Life Test

Lands
16 Plains
4 Kabira Crossroads
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Miren, the Moaing Well

 

Creatures
4 Wall of Reverence
2 Divinity of Pride
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Kami of False Hope

 

Spells
2 Test of Endurance
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Beacon of Immortality
2 Fracturing Gust
3 Congregate
2 Well of Lost Dreams
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Chastise
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Debtors' Knell

 

Planeswalker
1 Ajani Goldmane

 

Casual to me means playing for the enjoyment of playing so there is less of a focus on being competitive and winning. I mean the point is still to win but HOW you win matters in casual games.

I believe it also means playing at the level of your competition. For example if you've got a player who is new in your casual game then everyone needs to break out their simple straightforward decklists in consideration for that player. If there is a player who has spent 100 dollars lifetime on MtG then bringing your $1,000 legacy decklist is something I would not consider to be "casual".

Also I think that if you're going to play in a casual setting you should be aware of how the others view your decklist. If they don't like it, don't play it.
Don't be too smart to have fun
In my playgroup we're okay with crazy powerful decks - most of the time we do mulitplayer, so if something is too good then it gets hated on. But we almost all always switch decks after every game too. I played a one-on-one game with a crappy beast deck vs classic U draw-go, and it was the most tedious, boring game of my life. However, it was one game, and after that we just switched em up. Though as a positive it did help me learn how to play against that sort of thing better. 
@morticianjohn; I really like your post; i think you summed up my own vies even better then I did, lol.

I don't have a $1000 deck or anything but I am trying to build a strong reanimator.  However, if we have someone new, or someone not that experienced (like my sis) I obviously won't play that.  It's nice to have a wide range of deck types/power levels so you can play a wide range of game types.  Sometimes it's fun just to pull out a couple of cheesy brainless decks and go for it.

@JDviant;  We do the same as far as deck switching; unless they are close games or someones deck just isn't working fo them.  other then that we like to switch it up every game or 2.
On our casual tribal nights, everyone brings 6 decks with them, numbered 1-6, and we roll dice to pick a deck to start the match. Makes for great games.
@morticianjohn; I really like your post; i think you summed up my own vies even better then I did, lol.

I don't have a $1000 deck or anything but I am trying to build a strong reanimator.  However, if we have someone new, or someone not that experienced (like my sis) I obviously won't play that.  It's nice to have a wide range of deck types/power levels so you can play a wide range of game types.  Sometimes it's fun just to pull out a couple of cheesy brainless decks and go for it.

@JDviant;  We do the same as far as deck switching; unless they are close games or someones deck just isn't working fo them.  other then that we like to switch it up every game or 2.



Let me address the reanimator concern. Reanimator is ok for the most part. In fact, just as with Show and Tell decks, there are only a few cards that are truly degenerate with it.

Those few cards, particularly Iona, Shield of Emeria, can be quite unfun for any player to deal with though, especially by turn 1 to turn 3.
Casual is just playing for the fun of it. Many times we play multiplayer which means a reanimator deck is toast. Spending all your cards to get one phatty out on turn one is not going to do a thing for you when half the table is sporting swords to plowshares or tragic slips and the other half is playing curfews.

You want your deck to be competitive and have a hidden way to run the whole table at once. You also want it to be fun to play. Here are some of my decks for casual.

Artillery
4 orcish artillery
4 Orcish Cannoneers
4 goblin artillery
4 deep-slumber titan

4 lightning bolt
4 basilisk collar
4 pyroclasm
4 pyrohemia
2 blood moon
2 sun droplet

Cinder Kobolds
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 goblin bushwhacker
4 Cinder Pyromancer

4 grapeshot
4 Rise of the Hobgoblins
4 cloudstone curio
4 glory of warfare

Parallax stalker
3 flayer husk
4 dream stalker
4 kor skyfisher
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Emancipation Angel
3 Fiend Hunter

4 saving grasp
4 momentary blink
4 sundial of the infinite
4 oblivion ring
4 parallax tide



You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
Casual is nothing more than a Format without set, card, or frequency restriction.

What a player group makes of that, however, has nothing to do with what 'casual' is.

DCI Judge Level 1

Casual is nothing more than a Format without set, card, or frequency restriction.

What a player group makes of that, however, has nothing to do with what 'casual' is.




You don't think that casual implies a more relaxed style of gaming? There is an english definition of the word casual which is nonchalant, without serious intent.

Are you saying that if my group follows the standard rules, restrictions and bannings we are not a casual group?
Don't be too smart to have fun
I was trying to imply that Casual is a format.

I play Casual, for example, but will always optimise my deck with the card pool I have. I, by all means, stick to theme or personal restriction (I play a mono-block Zubera deck, for example, but it will the best it can be), and I also then play MOMA.

So many people have different ideas about how everyone else should play the notion of 'playing for fun' causes more trauma in our group, and aggression, than anything else.

Ermm...final attempt, if someone asks me 'Do you want to play Casual?', then it implies no deck limitation. I will not go outside Legacy banned list, myself, because 4 Mystical Tutor gets you a slap, but I will pick up a deck I want to play. If someone asks me 'do you want a casual game', then I'll take that as an opportunity to try out a new idea I'm working on, or go for something gleeful, like my Praetor's Grasp toolbox (which is probably just as hateful, but do I care? No Tongue Out).

Does that make ANY sense?

DCI Judge Level 1

I have a few different groups of friends that I play "casual" with frequently. We follow house rules for the most part (no land mulligan, remembering that you didn't roll the planar die in Planechase within a couple of seconds after you just passed your turn, etc.), because we play to have fun. My decks lately have been winning about 90% of the time, except when one of my groups of friends plays Planechase. In that group, we all have roughly the same win percentage as each other.

Another one of my groups plays Two-Headed Giant or FFA primarily. Hell, we even played a 4 player FFA game today where we each started with half health.
Playing a deck with different types like this helps you learn the weakness(es) of it (especially Planechase); playing with different groups helps with learning the play style of others and coming up with new deck ideas as well.

All of our groups follow the banned list for Vintage, but not the restricted list.
Although, decks with Power 9 cards are frowned upon... which is why I don't see any in the groups I play with/against.

Hell, I have both a Tinker deck and a Balance deck, and they were made for fun. Not always to win.


Overall, I'd say it depends on the group(s) you play with and house rules. But it is definitely made to be fast, competitive, and fun.
@morticianjohn; I really like your post; i think you summed up my own vies even better then I did, lol.

I don't have a $1000 deck or anything but I am trying to build a strong reanimator.  However, if we have someone new, or someone not that experienced (like my sis) I obviously won't play that.  It's nice to have a wide range of deck types/power levels so you can play a wide range of game types.  Sometimes it's fun just to pull out a couple of cheesy brainless decks and go for it.

@JDviant;  We do the same as far as deck switching; unless they are close games or someones deck just isn't working fo them.  other then that we like to switch it up every game or 2.



Let me address the reanimator concern. Reanimator is ok for the most part. In fact, just as with Show and Tell decks, there are only a few cards that are truly degenerate with it.

Those few cards, particularly Iona, Shield of Emeria, can be quite unfun for any player to deal with though, especially by turn 1 to turn 3.



I see your point, and you're right.  While I do plan on running Iona, she's there mostly to deal with some of my friends decks that have a lot of hate against a deck like mine, or any creature deck; see Humility.   She can be quite the face slap and I plan to sideboard her out against a mono coloured deck or if I want a slower, less "I want you to punch me in the face" deck;  mono deck + Iona + entomb + reanimate = game on turn 2.  Not always fun unless I'm playing against a deck that can do the same to me.

While it's possible to get out powerful cards by turn 3 (and that's late) there is also a lot of creature removal that can basically knock me back a turn.  It also means I'm usually target number 1 in a multi-player game.  

I think at the end of the day Casual play is simply what you and your play group agree it is.  It can change game to game, or day to day but as long as everyone playing has a solid understanding of the idea behind what type of game your playing then it should work.

Now I will admit I don't get people who ignore EVERY banned/restricted list as well as the Legendary rule.  I mean if you're going to ignore those why not ignore the "4 per card" rule and run 40 lightning bolts! I used that example because a friend of mine still has his Lightning Bolt only deck that he built back before they had the 4 card rule, lol.
the people who keep chiming in to say that casual has no formal definition and that its up to each individual/playgroup should go get their "stating the obvious" diplomas. OP asked what casual is to you/each of individually....

to me the powerlevel of casual is somewhere around a good standard deck. Not every card is answer or you DIE, the combos are sluggish and often vulnerable, the fast decks are t4/5 kills...all of this means two things: people actually get to play the game before scooping; winning usually involves a few exchanges where you have to gain the upper hand a few times before a winner is found, not just casting an insane card and waiting to see if opponent has an answer - it also means that you can try a few more things, because a well constructed deck that isnt top(top)tier still has a decent chance.
I guess not following Vintage banned/restricted lists blows my mind too. As far as not honoring the restricted list, but not allowing P9 either, that's even worse. 4 Demo Tutors, 4 Tinkers, or 4 Sol Rings is FAR worse than a mox or 2 or an Ancestral Recall here and there. My 2 groups don't really have to worry about that so much because amongst around 15 total players, there's about 7 or 8 P9 cards total in the collections, and no one has anywhere close to a complete P9 set. Both groups do however, allow Collector's Edition cards as long as they're in opaque sleeves. Black border dual lands is so pretty...

I'm surprised Proxying hasn't come up in this convo yet.
@rawsugar; They have those???  Could you please let me know of any institutions that grant a diploma for that field of study?  I'd love to have some letters behind my name.  I'd even make fancy business cards and a website ;)

@Sacrifice; Now that you mention it, another great "Casual" setting is deck testing.  I (and several people I've known) have run fully proxied deck's, including anything that wasn't basic lands.  We all find it a great way to test a deck's strength's and weakness before spending the cash to grab all the new cards.  Do you really want to drop $100+ on a few cards that you plan to run in only one deck to find out they actually cripple it, or at best serve no purpose?

You also reminded me of a friend who a few years after selling his cards decided he wanted to play a bit, but not enough to buy more cards, printed off a bunch of card stickers and attached them to basic lands.  We all let him play because it was fun; also the first (and only time in my case) we got to go up against P9 cards, lol. 
Sacrifice, Do.S.O. Hmm, I LIKE it.

I was just discussing this thread with friend (who called to tell me no tribal tonight Yell), and his take on it was that casual isn't a format, it's an environment.
I guess not following Vintage banned/restricted lists blows my mind too. As far as not honoring the restricted list, but not allowing P9 either, that's even worse. 4 Demo Tutors, 4 Tinkers, or 4 Sol Rings is FAR worse than a mox or 2 or an Ancestral Recall here and there.


I didn't say we don't allow the Power 9... we just prefer not to play against decks with those cards. One of my friends has Time Walk in an Izzet deck, and I can surely say that is not fun to play against. Especially when your counter spells don't come up when needed.
But do you think it would be as effective played as Time Warp? Your phrasing leads me to believe that you're referring to multi-player, and I would imagine, esp in Izzit, that multi-player Time Warp is just as easy to play as Walk. Would it be as annoying if he was playing Time Warp instead? Just because he's paying more mana, even though the end result would probably be the same? Look at it this way, at least it's not Time Walk on a Stick-type-thingy. No, it's not fun to play against on a regular basis, but neither are those counterspells. There's always going to be annoying things going on, but the frequency of those annoying things is part of where the line between casual and competitive play lies. As long as he doesn't abuse it, you have to let it go once in a while.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and it's coming from someone who happens to be the one occasionally playing the Time Walk (Coll Ed.), but at the same time, making sure I don't shove it down ppl's throat.
But do you think it would be as effective played as Time Warp? Your phrasing leads me to believe that you're referring to multi-player, and I would imagine, esp in Izzit, that multi-player Time Warp is just as easy to play as Walk. Would it be as annoying if he was playing Time Warp instead? Just because he's paying more mana, even though the end result would probably be the same? Look at it this way, at least it's not Time Walk on a Stick-type-thingy. No, it's not fun to play against on a regular basis, but neither are those counterspells. There's always going to be annoying things going on, but the frequency of those annoying things is part of where the line between casual and competitive play lies. As long as he doesn't abuse it, you have to let it go once in a while.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and it's coming from someone who happens to be the one occasionally playing the Time Walk (Coll Ed.), but at the same time, making sure I don't shove it down ppl's throat.


Time Warp would be fine, because seeing as it costs 5 instead of 2... he wouldnt be able to copy as many times AND it would be much slower trying to get his combo going.

Actually, he does have Panoptic Mirror in that deck, but he doesn't always use it with Time Walk. Pairing the Mirror with Lightning Bolt then using Time Walk and copying it 4 times did give me a laugh though.
I think a lot of other Multiplayer/ casual article writers put it best when they said that it is about community.  Casual Magic is more about the people and your interactions with them than it is about the cards, with the cards just being the common factor that brings people together.  Casual Magic for me is generally a relaxed atmosphere that is pretty fun since there is a lot less deck limitations and you see a lot of cards show up that aren't viable or useable in other formats.  It's that combination that is the reason why I enjoy it so much.

Our playgroup is pretty huge, generally about 20 people, and it's generally 60 card constructed.  It's put on by our campus gaming organization that also supports other games like D&D and tabletop games (Warhammer 40k, etc.) and does a really cool convention once a year.  The interesting thing about this is there are a wide variety of decks and power levels.  A couple of Legacy players show up to the group, a couple of crazy combo players, a couple of newer players, a couple of budgeted players, and a couple of people who played in FNMs earlier that day.  Despite the differences in budgets, competitiveness, and philosophies about how the game should be played, we're all able to get together and have a good time.

There is some consensus about what limitations people should restrict themselves to.  Generally, it's assumed that most people will follow the Legacy format restrictions fairly reasonably.  No one is gonna flip out if someone plays a Skullclamp or a Tinker, however, some of those things might be frowned upon depending on what you do with them. Example: Tinkering for Darksteel Colossus; ok (I made it go out of style after a while though) : Tinkering for Blightsteel Collosus; frowned upon.  Infinite combos are also generally frowned upon in my group period. I was frustrated when people got mad at me for comboing out on turn 7 with something that isn't even the main focus of my deck and that I probably wouldn't get out that often, but I wasn't unreasonable about it.

I do generally think casual groups should have something like this (what's ok and fun to be played so that others won't be upset) but I also think it's just as good for the individuals in a playgroup to explore and test that boundary, whatever it may be.

Since the games are primarily multiplayer, I think I've seen just about everyone win at least a couple of times regardless of any self-imposed limitation or uncontrollable limitation they may have.  A lot of the time, even if a player is dirt poor or not very skilled they end up being left alone long enough to make a comeback in the end, it doesn't consistently happen but it's always the more memorable game.

I personally build my own casual decks by taking old standard decks from formats past or budgeted versions of Legacy or Modern decks and either curving them out higher for longer games or including cards that will have better interactions in a multiplayer setting.  Deckbuilding is a lot of fun for me, and I feel like the casual setting lets me put more personality into my builds than what it would if I was building exclusively for tournament play/ formats.  Current decks being: Jund (mix between Modern Jund, Shards Standard Jund, and current Standard Jund), Legacy Dredge, UG Faeries, Fires of Yavimaya deck, Zoo deck, and Nightmare Horrors.

  Infinite combos are also generally frowned upon in my group period. I was frustrated when people got mad at me for comboing out on turn 7 with something that isn't even the main focus of my deck and that I probably wouldn't get out that often, but I wasn't unreasonable about it.





coalition victory is banned in commander. It's a weak and highly vulnerable "I win" condition but stuff like that or even the niv-mizzet, the firemind/curiosity combo can be VERY oppressive in multiplayer games. It doesn't matter how slow or vulnerable the win condition is if it automatically wins the game regardless of how many opponents there are or what their life totals are it can become opressive. Of course these comboes are "casual" comboes and some groups will enjoy an environment where these decks exist. As you said it depends on what the "community" can handle but if you're playing against a group of random people in my experience it's likely that someone will be peeved at the existence of these types of comboes.
Don't be too smart to have fun
  Infinite combos are also generally frowned upon in my group period. I was frustrated when people got mad at me for comboing out on turn 7 with something that isn't even the main focus of my deck and that I probably wouldn't get out that often, but I wasn't unreasonable about it.





coalition victory is banned in commander. It's a weak and highly vulnerable "I win" condition but stuff like that or even the niv-mizzet, the firemind/curiosity combo can be VERY oppressive in multiplayer games. It doesn't matter how slow or vulnerable the win condition is if it automatically wins the game regardless of how many opponents there are or what their life totals are it can become opressive. Of course these comboes are "casual" comboes and some groups will enjoy an environment where these decks exist. As you said it depends on what the "community" can handle but if you're playing against a group of random people in my experience it's likely that someone will be peeved at the existence of these types of comboes.



Yeah, I agree with that. 

At the time I was really new to multiplayer Magic and that casual group and I didn't recognize how frusterating it can be, the combo was Glassdust Hulk and Sharuum the Hegemon when it was relatively new.  Didn't eliminate everyone, but was still  not very fun for the person who got targeted with it.  A couple of weeks later I had a similar experience in a long game where someone had a random Door to Nothingness, and I got targetted with it and had to wait forever for the next game to start.  Needless to say, I didn't do that combo that much after that (funny enough, the deck just got taken apart a month ago even though I never played it...weird how that works sometimes).

Its funny, almost everyone's definition here still includes winning, just not for a prize or following house rules etc. But i would argue as a new player (which generally speaking is the kind of player playing "casually") that for me when I look into the game casually its building a fun deck thats otherwise unplayable and playing it. Not trying to abuse banned or restricted cards and the such but simply making something like an ant tribal deck and playing against my buddy's jellyish tribal deck and playing cards that would be useless any other situation.

Standard and Modern and Legacy etc. can be fun ways to test your wits trying to create the "best" deck possible but with that comes a certain limited amount of decks as you reach the "best" one. I thinks its much more enjoyable to learn about different ideas and strategies and see how people come up with them. One of the things that Ive started to dislike about magic's "competitive" side as a whole now that ive been getting more and more into magic is that noone comes in with their own ideas. Everyone just plays "Jund decks, Junk decks, Wolfrun decks, Snapcaster Mage decks, Stormcrow decks" etc. and its kind of disheartening. I dont mean to be offensive or take away from any "pro" player because certaintly if we both had the same exact cards in the same exact situation they would make beter plays than i do but as a new player whats the point of even trying when not even the pros come up with original staregies? Its all just copy and paste decks with the odd modifaction here and there. Id much rather play at a "casual" level where i get to see some awsome interactions and startegies I wouldnt otherwise and have epic half an hour long games that come down to the wire instead of turn 1-3 wins where i didint even get to play.
@Lucktastic;  You do make some valid points.  There is very little originality at top level   I'm building a Jin-Gitaxias focused Reanimator because a friend of mine played it once against me and I realized how much I wanted it (I love board control).  It wasn't until I was looking into the cards to get some ideas that I realized that every Legacy Reanimator was using him (now Griselbrand).  I then proceeded to make decks similar to theirs because my ideas were never as strong.  I do have a sideboard to slow it down or tweak it for multi-player but it's still based on another persons idea's; I've kept it because it's still fun to play.

As far as making powerful Casual decks I see you're points.  However I don't feel like making the (quite large) financial jump to make a competitive Legacy/Standard deck; and I'm too competitive to play those formats without knowing I have a solid chance of winning so play casual.  I don't want to give up playing cards/decks I like just because I play "casual" though.  
some of us (like me) don't want to spend $200 dollars or more on a single sixty card deck
One of these days I'm going to bring my pre-Ice Age white artifact deck into the card shop and play it. It's actually not even over the top, despite mana ramps like a sol ring and such. It's 80+ cards, and a lot are singletons. I've got some fond memories with that deck- one of the best was playing two-headed giant with it and having my partner cast Animate Artifact on my Aladdin's Lamp. Because it's mostly singletons, it's a different game every time I play it, and as long as I was able to reach mid-game with it, it was a blast to play.

Novelty, using what you've got for the situation at hand, and having your opponent say, "Wait, let me see that card, what the heck does that do?" For me, that's casual gaming.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
I only play casually. I like the experiences that magic brings without all of the BS.

I'd say that if you want to make a mtg drinking game, then that's casual.

If you want to make a deck based off of a movie, like Monty Python, then that's casual.

If you want to play rebirth, then debate for 20 minutes on what to do next, that's casual.

When the cat starts playing with your life-total dice, that's casual.

When 1 guy combos off on turn 2 for the win, and everybody else just keeps playing without him, that's casual.

When a player gets knocked out, and he or she starts playing xbox, and everybody else gets distracted because of it, that's casual.

When there is the spill...not a spill, but THE spill, that's casual.
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains.
Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
Sign In to post comments