Dread Necro/Binder/Anima Mage

19 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hey guys, in a recent thread I got some advice on my build and I ended up with going with the Dread Necro/Binder/Anima Mage suggestion. I'm loving the potential in this.
I've made up a 1-20 character progession list and was just wondering if any of you far more advanced players could have a look and make any recommendations for tweaking the build for more benefit. Perhaps changing the order in which I get certain feats, or changing the feats altogether. Any help is much appreciated. Cheers.

P.S. Access to any official 3.5e book


Terlence Undermill
Strongheart Halfling

(At level 1)
STR  8 (-1)
DEX  14 (+2)
CON  12 (+1)
INT  14 (+2)
WIS  10
CHA  17 (+3)

Terlence, or Terly, comes from a small settlement called Roundmound, which is found in the lands of Luiren.
Consisting of just 4 families, Roundmound is a tight-knit community regardless of the frequent comings and goings of its adventurous residents.
Terly’s mother was still young when she came down with an unknown disease and starting to slowly die.
As she slowly and painfully perished from the unknown ailment Terly was her sole carer. Though the disease was tragic and unforgiving, Terly couldn’t help but to see a certain beauty in the irrefutable power of death.
He grew to have a great respect and a great curiosity towards death, seeing it as not evil or ugly, but as poetic and beautiful... And the ultimate challenge for those who are willing to face it!
Since his mother’s passing Terly has begun traveling to expand his knowledge and his strength. His goal is to harness the infinite power of death and use this power to, when the time comes, challenge death itself!


1 - Dread Necro – Charnel touch, rebuke undead
Tomb-tainted Soul, Corpse Crafter
2 - Dread Necro – Lich body DR 2
3 - Dread Necro – Negative energy burst 1/ day
Destruction Retribution
4 - Dread Necro – Advanced Learning (Kelgore’s Grave Mist), Mental Bastion +2
+1 Cha
5 - Dread Necro – Fear Aura
6 - Dread Necro – Scabrous touch 1/ day
Spell Focus: Necromancy
7 - Dread Necro – Lich body DR 4, Summon Familiar (Ghostly Visage)
8 - Dread Necro – Advanced Learning (Shivering Touch), Negative energy burst
2/ day, Undead mastery
+1 Cha
9 - Binder – Soul binding (1 vestige)
Improved Binding
10 – Binder – Pact Augmentation (1 ability), Suppress sign
11 – Binder -
12 - Binder – Bonus feat: Ignore Special Requirements
Metamagic: Extend Spell
+1 Cha
13 - Anima Mage – Soulbinding +1, +1 Spellcasting level
14 - Anima Mage – Exploit vestige, Soulbinding +2, +1 Spellcasting level
15 - Anima Mage – Vestigial awareness, Soulbinding +3, +1 Spellcasting level
Improved Spell Focus: Necromancy
16 - Anima Mage – Soulbinding +4, +1 Spellcasting level
+1 Cha
17 - Anima Mage – Vestige metamagic 1/ day, Soulbinding +5, +1 Spellcasting
level
18 - Anima Mage – Soulbinding +6, +1 Spellcasting level
Metamagic Persist Spell
19 - Anima Mage – Vestige metamagic 2/ day, Soulbinding +7, +1 Spellcasting
level
20 - Anima Mage – Soulbinding +8, +1 Spellcasting level
+1 Cha
You only need one level of binder if you take improved binding to get into anima mage. Unless there is some other reason you are killing caster levels.
Main reason was because the bonus feat at 4th level Binder would be handy... But I guess it could be done without...
It SHOULD be done without. First Commandment of Optimization, dood: Thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls

Alright then , well here's a revised version. Another 2 levels of caster gained, but still 2 levels missing.
Any presitge class worth taking for level 20 that will increse my caster level and keep with the flavour?




1 - Dread Necro
– Charnel touch, rebuke undead
Tomb-tainted Soul, Corpse Crafter
2 - Dread Necro
– Lich body DR 2
3 - Dread Necro
– Negative energy burst 1/ day
Destruction Retribution
4 - Dread Necro
– Advanced Learning (Kelgore’s Grave Mist), Mental Bastion +2
+1 Dex
5 - Dread Necro
– Fear Aura
6 - Dread Necro
– Scabrous touch 1/ day
Metamagic: Extend Spell
7 - Dread Necro
– Lich body DR 4, Summon Familiar (Ghostly Visage)
8 - Dread Necro
– Advanced Learning (Shivering Touch), Negative energy burst 2/ day, Undead mastery
+1 Cha
9 - Binder
– Soul binding (1 vestige)
Improved Binding
10 - Anima Mage
– Soulbinding +1, +1 Spellcasting level
11 - Anima Mage
– Exploit vestige, Soulbinding +2, +1 Spellcasting level
12 - Anima Mage
– Vestigial awareness, Soulbinding +3, +1 Spellcasting level
Spell Focus: Necromancy
13 - Anima Mage
– Soulbinding +4, +1 Spellcasting level
+1 Cha
14 - Anima Mage
– Vestige metamagic 1/ day, Soulbinding +5, +1 Spellcasting level
15 - Anima Mage
– Soulbinding +6, +1 Spellcasting level
Improved Spell Focus: Necromancy
16 - Anima Mage
– Vestige metamagic 2/ day, Soulbinding +7, +1 Spellcasting level
+1 Cha
17 - Anima Mage
– Soulbinding +8, +1 Spellcasting level
18 – Anima MageVestige metamagic 3/ day, Soulbinding +9, +1 Spellcasting level
Metamagic: Persist Spell
19 – Anima Mage -Vestige casting, Soulbinding +10, +1 Spellcasting level
20 – Binder – Pact Augmentation (1 ability), Suppress sign
+1 Cha

Why not just go back into DN?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
9th level of DN is 100% useless to me. (minus the caster level thing)
9th level of DN is 100% useless to me. (minus the caster level thing)



Plus Anima Mage 10 + Binder 2 = Binder Effective Level 12 = can bind 6th level Vestiges

If you had put this last level on DN, so your Binder Level would be 11, and that is just able to bind 5th or lower Vestiges (not that are too many great and useful Vestiges of 6th level lol, but it's cool to maximize this ability).
Actually one 6th level vestige that is very good is found in this online source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718

Zceryll, "The Star Spawn"

Is very good. 
Couple obvious things. First off, what the hell is up with your feat choices? Spell Focus is beyond awful, TTS is totally unecessary, as you should already be a Necropolitan, Destructive Retribution is near the worst of the Corpsecrafter line, and Extend/Persist has no real synergy with DN that I can see.

And, more importantly, WHY did you take a level of Binder? Totally unecessary, especially since you're not starved for feats. 

But, before I can get any more specific, I need to ask: what do you want your DN to actually do? 



1a.  I agree on Spell Focus (for the most part...increasing the DC isn't all that terrible)...
1b.  ...but not the Necropolitan;  you'd lose a level (which would kill you at level 1), have to pay 3000 gp and 1000 xp (which isn't easy until you're a higher level).
1c.   If you're either raising multiple small undead or a few larger ones, Destructive Retribution can spread the damage out over an area without risking your neck.
1d.   Extend has a few uses, but Persist doesn't seem to (I'm thinking he's going for Extending Kelgore's Grave Mist).

2.   You need the level in Binder to qualify for Anima Mage (actually, you'd normally need three levels, but that's mitigated by Improved Binding).  Having levels in those classes opens up quite a few beneficial bindings (which can let you stand in for almost any other class for a time) and actually can boost your spellcasting abilities (through vestige metamagic, exploit vestige, and vestige casting).
Though I'm trying to optimize a bit, I don't want to lose all my flavour.
I DO NOT want to be undead, hence why I'm cross/prestige classing out and not going for level 20 DN lich.

I love the idea behind the binder and the DN, so I was trying to combine whilst not totally shafting both classes abilities.

Essentially I plan on being mainly a summoner/controller of dead and keeping myself out of the thick of things. Binding will allow me access to further things to keep me at a distance as well as some nifty abilities if I do get stuck and find myself in melee combat.
The exploding undead will not only do minor damage to my enemies, but minor healing to my other undead summons in combat, I really don't see how that is a terrible thing. Especially not in the lower levels.

Spell focus was intended to up the DCs as many necro spells rely on this, if there is a more feat to do this, please, by all means, let me know.

The metamagic feat is another qualifier for Anima Mage and this appeared to be the best metamagic feat for me. Again, if you have a different opinion, please, by all means, share it and explain your thoughts.

For feats, I recommend going Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige at level 1


Which doesn't give you anything out of Anima Mage then. Heck, I don't think it even lets you qualify; Anima Mage's prerequisites should say "soul binding class feature" if I recall correctly. I am certain that the wording in the +1 to soul binding class features specifies advancement in existing binder levels, and doesn't work with the Bind Vestige feats.
...Interesting. I'd not seen that interpretation before.

I'd be hesitant to actually bring it before a DM, though. Indifferent DMs would say "nope", and go-through-the-rules-with-a-fine-toothed-comb DMs would say that the 

Special


Characters who have the ability to bind vestiges through other means (such as the soul binding class feature) eannottake this feat. It you become a binder after taking the feat, you lose its benefit.


  line in Bind Vestige would cause you to lose your own prerequisited upon taking your first level of Anima Mage. If it's allowed, though, that's more room for Nightmare Spinner levels.
Except... What if it doesn't, and works like the "maneuvers known" prereqs from ToB? You use Bind & Imp. Bind to qualify; once you qualify, you no longer get the benefits of the Bind Vestige feat, right? But now you've got the binding ability of a 1st-level Binder with Improved Binding, so you still meet the prereqs for the class. And now you can retrain Bind Vestige away. It's pretty ingenious, really.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Sign In to post comments