GTC: Dimir Speculation Thread

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title says it all.

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Would anyone else love to see a reprint of Glimpse of the Unthinkable.
Glimpse the Unthinkable. No "of". Would've loved it when Zendikar was in Standard; another way to hit for 20. Not so much now.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Glimpse the Unthinkable. No "of". Would've loved it when Zendikar was in Standard; another way to hit for 20. Not so much now.




You can run that in modern.
Glimpse the Unthinkable. No "of". Would've loved it when Zendikar was in Standard; another way to hit for 20. Not so much now.




You can run that in modern.


please don't give bay_falconer an excuse to discuss his modern Bloodchief Ascension deck
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
i really hope dimir has a great milling mechanic, not something like transmute (even though that was good). Something like Crosstown Courier but without dealing damage. Just mill. That way you can keep attacking your opponent without killing them by dropping their life below 20. Almost like Undead Alchemist

Dimir Brainwasher

Brainwash: Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, instead that player puts that many cards from the top of their library into their graveyard

3/3

i'm also hoping they bring back cards like Jace's Phantasm that gets a bonus when your opponent has a ton of cards in his graveyard 

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
Here's an idea for a Dimir mechanic:

Keyword N - Whenever this creature deals combat damage to an opponent, you may search that player's library for a card with converted mana cost N or less and put it into that player's graveyard. Then that player shuffles his or her library.

Marketplace Pickpocket
Creature - Human Rogue
Keyword 1
1/1

Memory Thief
Creature - Faerie Rogue
Flying
Keyword 2
1/1

Mindsifter
Creature - Human Wizard
Keyword 3
: Draw a card, then discard a card.
2/2

Here's an idea for a Dimir mechanic:

Keyword N - Whenever this creature deals combat damage to an opponent, you may search that player's library for a card with converted mana cost N or less and put it into that player's graveyard. Then that player shuffles his or her library.

Marketplace Pickpocket
Creature - Human Rogue
Keyword 1
1/1

Memory Thief
Creature - Faerie Rogue
Flying
Keyword 2
1/1

Mindsifter
Creature - Human Wizard
Keyword 3
: Draw a card, then discard a card.
2/2


change it to RFG and it would work better, what with flashback and all.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
Here's an idea for a Dimir mechanic:

Keyword N - Whenever this creature deals combat damage to an opponent, you may search that player's library for a card with converted mana cost N or less and put it into that player's graveyard. Then that player shuffles his or her library.

Marketplace Pickpocket
Creature - Human Rogue
Keyword 1
1/1

Memory Thief
Creature - Faerie Rogue
Flying
Keyword 2
1/1

Mindsifter
Creature - Human Wizard
Keyword 3
: Draw a card, then discard a card.
2/2


change it to RFG and it would work better, what with flashback and all.



As cool as this is, not gonna happen.
R&D does their best to reduce the amount of shuffling in the game, especially at common. 
Look at the top N cards of an opponent's library and remove one from the game. Put the rest on top in a random order. Or any order(too strong). Or on the bottom(eh, maybe).
I had an idea that seems apropos.  something that triggers the main phase after one or more creatures you control attack and are not blocked.  This plays on the idea of the dimir as infiltrators and agents...

something like

Starlight sabotuer 2UU

Creature- fairy Rogue

Flying

Sabotage- At the beginning of each of your main phases, if one or more creatures you control attacked and were not blocked this turn, draw a card.

1/3
dimir should have miiiiilllllll not card drawing like they did last time with transmute. the only good recent mill cards have been Jace, Sands of Delirium, and Mind sculpt.

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
The thing about milling creatures is that you have effectively increased the other players life from 20 to 60. You'd have to have damage become tripled what it is now AND have enough creatures in a single block to support that. In other words 3/3 for 3 become 9/3s or something.If nothing else they make a heck of an offense, but you'd still have to print a butt load of them to be useful/competitive.

I think some sort of limited "clone" ability would be awesome or hexproof. I mean they are supposed to be sneaky.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

Look at the top N cards of an opponent's library and remove one from the game. Put the rest on top in a random order. Or any order(too strong). Or on the bottom(eh, maybe).



This sounds good. The higher the value of N, the more opportunities you have of eliminating one of your opponent's key cards. And it doesn't force too much shuffling at lower rarities.

It can either be connected to combat damage or it can be an action keyword similar to Regenerate, Proliferate, Populate, or Detain. The latter opens up more design space, as you can then print the keyword on counterspells, bounce, discard, and the like. However I suspect the former option is more likely to be used for flavor reasons, not to mention the keywords this time around seem less versatile than they were in Ravnica.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Prowl.

Sabotage (MC) (You may cast this for its sabotage cost if you dealt combat damage to a player this turn with a blue or black creature.)

Maybe a modifed version that Sabotage cost if the opponent milled a certain amount of cards off their deck.
The thing about milling creatures is that you have effectively increased the other players life from 20 to 60. You'd have to have damage become tripled what it is now AND have enough creatures in a single block to support that. In other words 3/3 for 3 become 9/3s or something.If nothing else they make a heck of an offense, but you'd still have to print a butt load of them to be useful/competitive.

I think some sort of limited "clone" ability would be awesome or hexproof. I mean they are supposed to be sneaky.



I say it should be mill equal to twice the damage. A 2/1 would mill 4 cards, for example.

Also, it's really around 50 cards. 
Known as Blitzer on most forums. Despite the username, I am male. Both sex AND gender.
The rumor I heard was that the keyworded ability would be something along the lines of creatures dealing damage in the form of milling that many cards off the top of their opponants library. 
IMAGE(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=290542&type=card)

A clue!

Theory:  The ability to cast a spell from your opponent's hand of converted mana cost X where X is the attacking creature's power or something.
I'm thinking something along the lines of Prowl.

Sabotage (MC) (You may cast this for its sabotage cost if you dealt combat damage to a player this turn with a blue or black creature.)

Maybe a modifed version that Sabotage cost if the opponent milled a certain amount of cards off their deck.



Interesting concept. You gave me an idea:

Infiltrate [cost] (You may cast this spell for its infiltrate cost if an unblocked attacker you control dealt combat damage to an opponent this turn.)

This basically combines aspects of ninjutsu and prowl together. Rather fitting for U/B, I think. There can also be this variation:

Infiltrate - [effect if an unblocked attacker you control dealt combat damage to an opponent this turn]

I'm thinking something along the lines of Prowl.

Sabotage (MC) (You may cast this for its sabotage cost if you dealt combat damage to a player this turn with a blue or black creature.)

Maybe a modifed version that Sabotage cost if the opponent milled a certain amount of cards off their deck.


Infiltrate - [effect if an unblocked attacker you control dealt combat damage to an opponent this turn]


like milling!!!

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.


A clue!

Theory:  The ability to cast a spell from your opponent's hand of converted mana cost X where X is the attacking creature's power or something.


Man Taramoor you really are the best at detecting these clues!

I like the idea, but I'm sure they'd never make a mechanic like that because it'd either never show up enough or if it did it'd be miserable for the opponent getting their spells cast against them every time.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I'm thinking something along the lines of Prowl.

Sabotage (MC) (You may cast this for its sabotage cost if you dealt combat damage to a player this turn with a blue or black creature.)

Maybe a modifed version that Sabotage cost if the opponent milled a certain amount of cards off their deck.


Infiltrate - [effect if an unblocked attacker you control dealt combat damage to an opponent this turn]


like milling!!!



I kinda expect any Dimir mechanic to be mill-related. Milling on its own is very parasitic, and House Dimir's mechanic may have been tutoring, but milling was their wincon. Plus, all the mill cards in Innistrad could be used here too.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I still think tutor-milling is something Dimir should do. Sort of a softer Extract. Or they can exile-mill. Whenever a creature with the keyword deals combat damage to a player, exile that many cards off the top of their library. Or the keyword is an action that exiles N cards, reading "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, Keyword the top N cards of that player's library". Dimir not only mills, it mills better.

Needs some blue and some black convergence...how about this:

Assassination:
Reveal the top card of your library. Exile an opponents target nonland permanent with CMC equal to or greater than the revealed card. If no opponents permanents could be exiled this way, exile the top card of your library.

Risky, ballsy, lethal, and involvs topdeck manipulation skills. Thoughts? I've pitched this before (and my legal-fu is weak), but do you guys get the gist of it?
Needs some blue and some black convergence...how about this:

Assassination:
Reveal the top card of your library. Exile an opponents target nonland permanent with CMC equal to or greater than the revealed card. If no opponents permanents could be exiled this way, exile the top card of your library.

Risky, ballsy, lethal, and involvs topdeck manipulation skills. Thoughts? I've pitched this before (and my legal-fu is weak), but do you guys get the gist of it?


thats awesome

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
Exile or destroy? Either way, it can't be done in both colors, IMO. (Blue doesn't destroy.) And it would probably just be creatures. (Black doesn't destroy artifacts or enchantments.) Cool idea, tho.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Taint - When this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, the defendig player sacrifices a non-land permanent with converted mana cost equal to or less than that of the revealed card. If they can't, put the revealed card into your graveyard.

Something like that, maybe?
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
Taint - When this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may reveal the top card of your library. If you do, the defendig player sacrifices a non-land permanent with converted mana cost equal to or less than that of the revealed card. If they can't, put the revealed card into your graveyard. Something like that, maybe?


i thought cards always went into the graveyard of the card's owner...it might get a little confusing your way :P tweak it so if they can't sacrifice you simply exile the card. And what would happen if they draw a land? It simply gets exiled?

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
You reveal your own card, not their's. And yes. Unless they had a nonland permanent with 0 mana cost, like a token. The card reveal is blue. Forcing them to sacrifice is black. The selfmill is both. And Dimir is more about putting cards into graveyards. Why would it get exiled?
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
Not that I misunderstood the blue/black mechanic. Btw, Leyline of the Void would like to have a word with whomever said black didn't exile. It's just that the last few sets have been forgoing killing altogether, going straight for the exile.
You reveal your own card, not their's. And yes. Unless they had a nonland permanent with 0 mana cost, like a token. The card reveal is blue. Forcing them to sacrifice is black. The selfmill is both. And Dimir is more about putting cards into graveyards. Why would it get exiled?


nevermind, i thought it read "reveal the top card of your opponent's library...that's why the whole putting the card into your graveyard made no sense...just a little confusion

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
I personally think Dimir would be better off going for shapeshifters, clone effects and a standard permission based U/B control, but with a sprinkling of cards that key off of things in their graveyard.

Like say - 'When this creature comes into play target a creature in either players graveyard and exile it, this card becomes a copy of that creature.' on top of the odd thing like Dimir Cutpurse. The thing with Mill, is as cool as it is, it's largely irrelevant in and of itself, but I sure would like a decent mill deck in the format.

But one thing we DO know, is that our champ is a shapeshifter, and a powerful one. Maybe that points to something.
I want to be Cultured.
And just in case anybody thinks that would be too fragmented, that ties perfectly into the flavour of a guild where nobody knows what's going on in the whole of it. Remember this is a guild where two factions of it can be working right alongside each other and never know it, this is a guild whose greatest weakness is it's inability to work with itself and a tendency to stab itself in the back and be paranoid of one another. A collection of personalities who only look out for themselves and would gladly sell out the whole if need be.

That sounds like a guild with a load of wierd moving parts and unpredictability to me. If I wanted a singular purpose and clear sturcture I'd play White!
I want to be Cultured.
I have this guess for Lazav:

Lazav, Lord of Shadows
Legendary Creature - Shapeshifter
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have ~ become a copy of a creature card exiled with it until your next turn, except its name is still ~ and it's still legendary.
: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If that card is a creature card, exile it.
2/2

Of course, I was way off when guessing Aurelia.

I have this guess for Lazav:

Lazav, Lord of Shadows
Legendary Creature - Shapeshifter
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have ~ become a copy of a creature card exiled with it until your next turn, except its name is still ~ and it's still legendary.
: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If that card is a creature card, exile it.
2/2

Of course, I was way off when guessing Aurelia.


i like it, it helps tie in his shapeshifter abilities, but should he still be  2/2? or does his power/toughness turn to that of the copied creature? Because that's really good then for no cost

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
I have this guess for Lazav:

Lazav, Lord of Shadows
Legendary Creature - Shapeshifter
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have ~ become a copy of a creature card exiled with it until your next turn, except its name is still ~ and it's still legendary.
: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If that card is a creature card, exile it.
2/2

Of course, I was way off when guessing Aurelia.



In all due respect, I hope you're unbearably wrong, because that's a horrible card XD

Also, for some reason(because we're the slower colours mainly, despite WOTC making U aggro a thing), I'm expecting our guy to be less in the Jarad/Rakdos price range, and more ...
I want to be Cultured.
I have this guess for Lazav:

Lazav, Lord of Shadows
Legendary Creature - Shapeshifter
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have ~ become a copy of a creature card exiled with it until your next turn, except its name is still ~ and it's still legendary.
: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If that card is a creature card, exile it.
2/2

Of course, I was way off when guessing Aurelia.


Same idea, different execution.

Lazav, Imputnamehere 
Legendary Creature - Shapeshifter
At the beginning of each upkeep, you may have ~ become a copy of a creature card exiled with it, except its name is still ~, it's still legendary, gets ":"Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If that card is a creature card, exile it." and gains this ability.
: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If that card is a creature card, exile it.
3/4

I added more CMC because, well.... it is Dimir.... I made the Mill cheaper, made Clone-Abilty Permanent with the ability to change EVERY upkeep.
hmmm.

Seeing blue/white is all about detaining creatures, blue/black might go for controlling them.

Something like...

x: gain control of a target creature with x strength the opponent controls, untap it, the target creature is destroyed at the end of turn

x: put target creature with x strength from the graveyard to the battlefield, this creature now has haste, the target creature is exiled at the end of turn

~~~~~~~~~~~~
standard blue black though...

1: target player discard a card

1: target player pick up a card



a blue/black rare enchantment could be: 

2: at the beginning of upkeep, the player pick up an extra card, opponent discards 1 card at random and mill top x card according to the converted mana cost. If opponent has no cards, sacrifice enchantment and opponent mills 7 cards.

an example of a rare sorcery:

3: sacrifice a creature, gain control of target opponent creature permanently, when the creature dies, it is exiled.  



On a related note though, I think White/black is more in-lore to be control, cuz of money.

Controlling creatures is a red/blue thing, Black doesn't do that. Red controls them for a turn of that wild traitorous instinct, Blue gives em the old mind control, if Black wants to nab their creatures we have to kill em first.

But I like the idea of sort of an inverse detain, where for a turn our thing becomes a copy of one of their guys... But I think they would want to make U/B as distinctive from U/W as possible, seeing as how they're actually sort of complete opposites in universe.

I think we'll see something like Ninjutsu, or something that plays off attacking unguarded. From what we've seen so far Dimir is about spies and secrets and thievery and all that cool urban-ninja stuff.
I want to be Cultured.
Controlling creatures is a red/blue thing, Black doesn't do that. Red controls them for a turn of that wild traitorous instinct, Blue gives em the old mind control, if Black wants to nab their creatures we have to kill em first.



Actually black does get creature stealing, just not as often. See Enslave, Mark of the Oni, Captivating Vampire, Ritual of the Machine as well as a few of the Grixis cards Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker being the obvious one but there's Slave of Bolas too.
the dimir letter of introduction includes:

shapeshift

memory excision

psychic skimming



shapeshift could be steal/copy target creature

memory excision is obviously discarding or milling

psychic skimming is library control

hmm also assassinate spells, enchantments  and tings. Deathtouch probably everywhere
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