Ye Olde First Ed

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I was digging around in my basement and I found boxes of my old D&D stuff.  Most of it was 2nd ed as I started in the 90's but I found a 1st ed players handbook. I have not played 1st ed since around 1996 maybe 1997 so it has been around 15 years. When I think level limit I tend to think of 2nd edition and humans sucked as 2nd ed had generous level limits. I liked playing 1st ed but even in the 1990's I did not want to run it but one of my friends liked it an ran a few games for us. Anyway lets see how well it has aged.

Anyway PHB 1st Ed 1981, 6th printing.

Title page, fairly standard for a PHB. Very few pages for character creation. Abilities, races and classes eat up 33 pages between them.

 To be certain  races you had to meet a minimum ability score after rolling ye olde dices. Humans are the only race who can have 18/00 strength (+3 hit, +6 damage, about a 20 these days).

 Anyway onto the races. I remember level limits.  Human, Elf, Dwarf, Gnomes. Half Elf, Half Orc and Halfling are your races.

Page 14 has a nice table on racial class and level restrictions.
Humans can be everything and have unlimited progression. Every one has unlimited levels as a thief, except the poor old Half Orc who is stuck at level 8 maximum. The races. Note the maximum level is usually based on having an 18 in the relevent stat. Eg Elf fighter with 16 strength is limited to level 5. It varies by class and race.

Dwarf: Cleric 8, Fighter 9, Assassin 9.
Elven: Cleric 7, Fighter 7, Magic User 11. Assassin 10
Gnome: Cleric 7 Fighter 6, Illusionist 7, Assassin 8.
Half Elf: Cleric 5, Druid unlimited, Fighter 8, Ranger 8, Magic user 8, assassin 11.
Halfling: Druid 6, Fighter 6,
Half Orc: Cleric 4, Fighter 10, Thief 8, Assassin unlimited.
Human unlimited everyting.

Page 15 has maximums for ability scores based on race and gender believe it or not. Elven female can only have 16 strength. This is applied across the races for strength scores for females. Maybe they have a higher maximum for dexterity. Erm nopes.  Unearthed Arcana a few years later reversed this for Drow Females IIRC. Can't imagine why early D&D was a sausage fest. Maybe sexy female elven rogues were popular or half elf druids. Unless you wanted to be a Paladin or have unlimited level advancement pick another race more or less.

Page 18 has a racial preference table yay. Poo old half orc only humans tolerate them. Humans are neutral for everyone, tolerated by Half Elves and prefered by other humans.

 Oh well its a little odd by nowdays standards. Back then its all you had I suppose and I turned 3 in 1981. I'll leave it there, I'm just waiting for the wife to get home and I will tell her she can only have a 17 in some of her scores. I don't want to have sex ever again.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

If you are really wanting to see how different society of the 1970s treated gender in comparison to our modern sensibilities, watch some old Archie Bunker episodes.  1st edition is a product of its times.
If you are really wanting to see how different society of the 1970s treated gender in comparison to our modern sensibilities, watch some old Archie Bunker episodes.  1st edition is a product of its times.



And i am pretty sure some want that kind of culture to return... =V

I think the last game with significant male/female stats i played was a computer RPG called Arcanum...Female had +1 to Constitution & -1 to Strength compared to male
Howdy folks,

While discussion of previous editions is a good thing and informative to the development of D&D Next, the issue of gender limits to ability scores has been shelved for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because it causes flame wars in the forums.  The designers have stated that D&D Next will not feature gender-based modifiers to ability scores.

Let's drop that particular sub-topic and move on, please.

Thanks.    

All around helpful simian

Howdy folks,

While discussion of previous editions is a good thing and informative to the development of D&D Next, the issue of gender limits to ability scores has been shelved for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because it causes flame wars in the forums.  The designers have stated that D&D Next will not feature gender-based modifiers to ability scores.

Let's drop that particular sub-topic and move on, please.

Thanks.    



Ofcourse, i am glad that's something that will never return to the game and R&D actually took notice of that.
Level limits serve no purpose other than to stop the whole campaign dead.
Howdy folks,

While discussion of previous editions is a good thing and informative to the development of D&D Next, the issue of gender limits to ability scores has been shelved for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because it causes flame wars in the forums.  The designers have stated that D&D Next will not feature gender-based modifiers to ability scores.

Let's drop that particular sub-topic and move on, please.

Thanks.    



 I was more laughing at it than advocating D&DN feature it.

 Anyways found a few old TSR modules and bits an pieces in the basement from 1980/81. Didn't know I had them.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I was more laughing at it than advocating D&DN feature it.


And magic users put on face black to cast the Friends spell.  Lots of inimical stuff in 1e that will never be carried forward into 5e. 

However, 1e also has a certain charm which leaves each later edition as a somewhat paler shadow.  Such charm lies not in the offenses of gender, racial, and other kind.  Exactly where it lies, I am not sure, but the developers of 5e will be well served should they discover where such charm lies and bring it forward. 
There are a number of things I think have been improved since 1e. The gender, racial and class restrictions are at the top of the list. That's one of the reasons I am excited about 5e instead of crying for 1e reprints.
I was more laughing at it than advocating D&DN feature it.


And magic users put on face black to cast the Friends spell.  Lots of inimical stuff in 1e that will never be carried forward into 5e. 

However, 1e also has a certain charm which leaves each later edition as a somewhat paler shadow.  Such charm lies not in the offenses of gender, racial, and other kind.  Exactly where it lies, I am not sure, but the developers of 5e will be well served should they discover where such charm lies and bring it forward. 


Little pink glasses of nostalgic wonder on sale just 19.99 ea.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

There are a number of things I think have been improved since 1e. The gender, racial and class restrictions are at the top of the list.



Agreed completely.  Thank Celestia that nonsense is gone for good.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I was more laughing at it than advocating D&DN feature it.


And magic users put on face black to cast the Friends spell.  Lots of inimical stuff in 1e that will never be carried forward into 5e. 

However, 1e also has a certain charm which leaves each later edition as a somewhat paler shadow.  Such charm lies not in the offenses of gender, racial, and other kind.  Exactly where it lies, I am not sure, but the developers of 5e will be well served should they discover where such charm lies and bring it forward. 



 It had been 15 years and I hardly got to play 1st ed.  Not a fan of level limts, humans sucking and gender ability limits.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I was more laughing at it than advocating D&DN feature it.


And magic users put on face black to cast the Friends spell.  Lots of inimical stuff in 1e that will never be carried forward into 5e. 

However, 1e also has a certain charm which leaves each later edition as a somewhat paler shadow.  Such charm lies not in the offenses of gender, racial, and other kind.  Exactly where it lies, I am not sure, but the developers of 5e will be well served should they discover where such charm lies and bring it forward. 


Little pink glasses of nostalgic wonder on sale just 19.99 ea.



Sorry the designers bought them all!
Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was.  Or perhaps something like when a parent puts a child's crayon drawing up on the refrigerator ...
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was.  Or perhaps something like when a parent puts a child's crayon drawing up on the refrigerator ...



Not too mention the amount of house ruling  that generaly had to be made, no wonder it meet some individuals tastes because it was largely their own rules. Many over the years would forget just how house rule their game was and remember their house ruled game as the game.
One of the things (among many) that my first DM put out to all our new players was a qoute from the DMG, tho now I do not remember the page or paragraph, "this is a guide, no rule is set in stone".  House rules were part of the game, I think as I see several point to various rules they remember, gee we didn't do that or we didn't limit that/  I really hope the designers find a way back to encouraging that train of thought, houserules should not be a recommendation but encouraged - as stated in both DMG's for 1e and 2e. 


And as I write this I realize that this is what I have been missing.  I will follow DDN and will most likely buy the PHB and the DMG, but I think I will just go back to my D&D, which is a mix of houserules, fun times with friends from all editions.  
I think the best feature of 1st edition for me today is the nostalgic game sessions we have.  Many of the gamers I play with fall into my age group and experianced classic 1st edition gameplay.  No one is under any illusions about how the game stacks up to modern day games, but in the end, role-playing games are about having fun and enjoying the time you spend with your friends and nostalgic classics like this are a lot of fun to play.  I still run one shot nostalgia events and despite it all, for most of us those stand out as the best gaming experiances of the year. 

"Edition wars like all debates exist because people like debates"

http://www.gamersdungeon.net/

 Best gaming experiennce (and probably music) is whatever you had at high school and college. Before inconvenient things like families and jobs. I do love the dmg ranges though. 5-17 work that one out. The cover is pretty I suppose.
IMAGE(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae162/Zardnaar/2012-11-09173706.jpg)

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I do love the dmg ranges though. 5-17 work that one out.



4d4 + 1.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
2E could have been great, if only Zeb could have shaken off just a bit more of Gary & Dave's arbitrary arbitrariness.
Eliminate level limits entirely, and unify the multiclass rules into hybrids for all races.  That's all it really needed.
I do love the dmg ranges though. 5-17 work that one out.



4d4 + 1.



 Yup took me a few second to think about it though. Monks basic unarmed damage with a fist.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Yup took me a few second to think about it though. Monks basic unarmed damage with a fist.



Neat.  I never played 1E, so I didn't recognize the actual source of the expression.


I used to like flipping through the 2E MM and just solving the damage ranges for dice expressions.  It's a fun and easy math puzzle.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
Its just really weird reading things like that. Some of the numbers are odd to say the least. Maybe it was so early on 4d4+1 would not have been in use or the d to represent dice. Romans didn't have 0 for example.

 Suffice to say 2d6 or wahtever is my preferred option.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

 Best gaming experiennce (and probably music) is whatever you had at high school and college. Before inconvenient things like families and jobs. I do love the dmg ranges though. 5-17 work that one out. The cover is pretty I suppose.


Burn the AD&D 2nd edition "revised black cover" - just burn it.  Not that the rules were that different but wow, the artwork in there was so horrible compared to the first version and the layout was painful to the eyes.

Sorry - bad memories 
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was.  Or perhaps something like when a parent puts a child's crayon drawing up on the refrigerator ...



Or, perhaps, your attempts to divine what I like are categorically wrong.
Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was


Or maybe it was awesome, which is why it launched an entire [industry]


... We're talking about cars, right?

EDIT: Just look how awesome that is!
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was.  Or perhaps something like when a parent puts a child's crayon drawing up on the refrigerator ...

There were other things to compare it to.  Other wargames.  D&D didn't always come out ahead in the comparison, either.  Unrealistic, frivolous, and silly are some criticisms I can recall.  The more polite ones, anyway.  Particularly "unrealistic."  The mere fact that it wasn't historical made it garbage in the eyes of many wargamers.


- Warlords! Join the 'Officer Country' Group! Join Grognards for 4e, the D&D that changed D&D.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was


Or maybe it was awesome, which is why it launched an entire [industry]


... We're talking about cars, right?

EDIT: Just look how awesome that is!



Well for one thing, it didn't add to climate change.



CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
Well for one thing, it didn't add to climate change.

The Benz Patent Motorwagen used an internal combustion engine, very likely far less efficient than a modern engine.

I wouldn't mind some racial ability score limits, halflings starting out as strong as an ogre is just daft.

If you don't like it, you are more than free to spec your halfing otherwise.

Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was.  Or perhaps something like when a parent puts a child's crayon drawing up on the refrigerator ...

There were other things to compare it to.  Other wargames.  D&D didn't always come out ahead in the comparison, either.  Unrealistic, frivolous, and silly are some criticisms I can recall.  The more polite ones, anyway.  Particularly "unrealistic."  The mere fact that it wasn't historical made it garbage in the eyes of many wargamers.





I compared it to RuneQuest.. as far back as 1978.. I could give a better review now than I did then.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Well for one thing, it didn't add to climate change.

The Benz Patent Motorwagen used an internal combustion engine, very likely far less efficient than a modern engine.




Well there you go!  Shows what I know!



CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
Exaclty, what the hell would a 3 to 4-foot tall humanoid that is as strong as an ogre even look like?



I was more laughing at it than advocating D&DN feature it.


And magic users put on face black to cast the Friends spell.  Lots of inimical stuff in 1e that will never be carried forward into 5e. 

However, 1e also has a certain charm which leaves each later edition as a somewhat paler shadow.  Such charm lies not in the offenses of gender, racial, and other kind.  Exactly where it lies, I am not sure, but the developers of 5e will be well served should they discover where such charm lies and bring it forward. 


Little pink glasses of nostalgic wonder on sale just 19.99 ea.

Gender limits on str or class limits based on ability would be fine today. 
When everything else is equal, it all comes down to mass unfortunately.

And that's why all the say size has with strength is carrying capacity.

As mass goes down, it serves logic that negative STR values will have to be possible, since a human and a smurf can't possibly have the same minimum strength.  Or, just not worry about it so much.

I started a 2e game last month and we're having a blast with it. I still can't wrap my head around Thac0 and I wonder how the hell I managed to make that second nature back in the day. What messes me up about it is if the AC is positive, I subtract it from the number but of the AC is negative I add it. If they had flipped AC to start at -10 and progress to 10, I'd not be so damned confused
I still can't wrap my head around Thac0 and I wonder how the hell I managed to make that second nature back in the day.

Work it out on graph paper, ahead of time.

However, it's actually just BAB with the signs flipped around.
thac0 - (roll + bonus) = AC

Thac0 15, roll 10: hits AC 5 or higher
15 - 10 = 5

Thaco 5, roll 10: hits AC -5 or higher
5 - 10 = -5

What Qmark said. I pulled out my second ed books yestday and I'm consideirng running the Night Below as a 2nd ed game or as a D&DN conversion IDK yet.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Converting BECMI, 1E, and 2E adventures to DDN is very simple (and something I love doing). I didn't play 3E/3.5, but I'm sure those adventures wouldn't be too difficult, either.
 Nopes thats what I figured Hocus-Smokus. Missing a few monsters buit the 1st book in night below seems an easy conversion.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Something tells me that 'charm' only existed because there was nothing to compare it to, so we didn't realize how primitive it was.  Or perhaps something like when a parent puts a child's crayon drawing up on the refrigerator ...



Or maybe it was awesome, which is why it launched an entire genre, and you're just biased/different.




+1
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