R/G/b Dragons: How stupid am I being?

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Okay, so I figured since I'm doing one deck, may as well put another one up too.
As an avid dragons player I have played with and bashed Dragonspeaker Shaman plenty of times as never being relevant to the deck because it always dies before I get back to my turn again.

However I'm feeling particularly stupid and I'd like you all to be my psychiatric counseling telling me whether or not my experience is correct and I have no idea what I'm doing or if I may actually be on to something.

Let's begin the session shall we?

First I need to back up to the original reason I want to make this deck (b/c it sure isn't just so I can play D-Speaker Shaman):  My thinking this time around is that we now have enough low costing dragons to warrant a deck playing Crucible of Fire (okay so we had enough as of M13, but it just took me a while to dig this deck idea back up).

The cheap dragons I'm referring to:
Slumbering Dragon
Dragon Hatchling

However, I'm certainly not going to stick to just these two, and I know I want to run a full set of Crucible of Fire and there is one dragon in particular that I've known I would put in a deck with Crucible of Fire if ever it became feasible to play with:
Dragon Broodmother

In a similar vein I want to play another dragon, that's already value, but should outright explode with crucible out:
Broodmate Dragon

8 flying power for 6?  don't mind if I do.  14 Flying power??!! F*@# Yeah!!!

Since I've decided to splash black, I have one other dragon that I haven't found a home for yet that I'd like to add as a one-of:
Hellkite Overlord


Dragonspeaker shaman reentered my line of thinking when I realized that with this build I can still cast stuff if D-Speaker gets shot down thanks to the small dragons.  And while I'm at it, there's another relatively new card (AVR) that functions very similarly to D-Speaker.  Perhaps if I hammer at that square peg hard enough, it actually WILL go in that round hole?:
Somberwald Sage

I actually do have one more variety of dragon to toss in this deck.  He's mostly to fill in the curve, but he should be good at what he does:
Hellkite Hatchling


We're finally done with the creatures and we've started the spell suite out with the crucible, but any red deck worth its salt has removal of some variety:
Lightning Bolt
Terminate

And one final trick to make this deck tick a wee bit faster:
Rancor

I really really wanted to try to tack in Predatory Hunger to help accelerate the awakening of our 1-drop dragon, but after looking at it long and hard I decided I was trying to be too cute.  You just can't beat the disgusting level of power that Rancor puts out.  It really helps bring this deck together since it can make any of the smaller creatures big enough to give opponents pause on if they really want to attack.

The land base could be better, but it's still quite decent considering I'm just using scraps I'm pulling together from some other failed decks:
Copperline Gorge
Sulfurous Springs
Rootbound Crag
Blackcleave Cliffs
basic lands

Right now these are the numbers I have in mind for this deck:

Creatures (23)


Non-Creatures (14)
[deck]
4x Rancor
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
4x Crucible of Fire
[/deck]

Lands (23)
[deck]
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Sulfurous Springs
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Swamp
4x Forest
[/deck]


To be honest I'm not actually 100% certain I have the sulfurous springs floating around.  Oh well, small matter.  I currently own all these cards except for one slumbering dragon and (surprisingly enough) one dragon hatchling (well...actually I'm also borrowing my rancors from another deck, but whatevs, I'll buy more), but I haven't had the chance to play it yet.

And so we'll end this session with me looking at some of those psychiatric flash cards that show vague shadows of various shapes.  For this exercise I shall pretend to be all of you and myself at once:
You all: Card 1?
Me: Dragon
You all: Card 2?
Me: Dragon
You all: Card 3?
Me: Dragon
You all: *eyes twitch* Card 4?
Me: Dragon
You all: *sigh, pull out and hold up a color photograph of an apple* Card 5?
Me: DRAGON!!!!

XDDDD

Sooooo, tell me if you think D-Speaker is a bad idea or not.  If he goes out, I can always just put in Farseeks, Rampant Growths, Cultivates, etc...

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

This isn't a dumb idea. if your playgroup is killing your Shaman, then we need to find another way to get your fat onto the field...

I honestly think that your best bet is Collective Voyage. You'll just ramp the hell out of yourself, and if you build your deck right you will steamroll the next turn.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
dragonspeaker shaman draws some hate for sure. It's funny that joraga treespeaker (which essentially does the same thing) or somberwald sage (which does it better) might draw less hate.

It sounds like you're playing multiplayer. If you're playing 1 vs 1 drawing out their removal spells is a pretty good use for dragonspeaker shaman (although he does cost 3 mana).
Don't be too smart to have fun
imo shaman is only worth it if he allows you to cast 2+ dragons a turn which means you need either another source of reduction likeurza's incubator or heartless summoning or cheaper dragons - guys that cost 4-5 rather than 6+

if you dont set up the deck for casting several dragons each turn youre better off with other sources of ramp. shaman doesnt suck but fyndhorn elder is very low on the list of playable ramp. garruk wildspeaker ofers rampo and mass boost all in 1.

broodmother loves boartusk liege 
I've used Ruby Medallions to a certain degree of success. I had the same porblem with "D-Speaker". Dead. Quickly. For some reason, no one saw the Medallions as much of a threat. Their mistake.
Krosan Drover is another budget option, but I assume he'd have the same issues the Speaker does. 
Dragon Arch could come in handy.

I dream of Beer Head Armies.

Autocard is our friend. [c‍]Urborg Mindsucker[/‍c] → Urborg Mindsucker

T1: bop
T2:some accelerator, farseek
T3:shaman, having mana up to ranger's guile or withstand death protecting from their removal.
T4:5 land, 1-2 dorks, shaman up. Drop hellkite overlord/other big fat.

lightning greaves can work too, but I prefer using greens retroactive protection, can really screw your opponent

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Thanks for the input everybody!
@jakethelate:  I really don't like collective voyage.  I'm greedy and only want to help myself. =p
@morticianjohn: I've noticed that too about treespeaker not drawing as much hate.  Personally I always blow up a somberwald sage when I see it though. She drops SCAAAAARRRYYYY **** on T4 XD
@rawsugar: thanks for the reminder about cost reduction's proper uses.  Garruk 1.0 is awesome, but I'd like to drop a dragon or crucible T4, so I'd rather not clog that spot on my curve.  Boartusk liege Does sound verrry tempting, but I can't think of what I'd cut for it.
@sacrifice: medallions do some legwork (after reviewing rawsugar's comment the signets work better, but it's the same idea) and I like that they aren't creatures so they are much harder to kill and I'd seriously consider them if I hadn't stumbled across the stuff I mention below.
@JDviant:  similar effect, same problem, higher casting cost, but thanks for trying.
@warghoul: I like Dragon Arch, but by the time I hit 5 mana it hardly feels like ramp/cheat any more.  If I end up having color problems it's a great idea, but I think I'll manage.
@jnp:  hm....protection spells.  Problem is, I'd rather not rely on having one in my hand that early in the game.  Nice idea though.


Now that I'm sane again I'm leaning away from the shaman again.
As rawsugar has reminded me, cost reduction is best used when you're planning on casting multiple spells, otherwise I'm better off running mana ramp.  Also, I think I want some card draw too (I know, I'm greedy. XD)

Anyway, I was looking through card draw on gatherer I ran into wall of blossoms, which in turn reminded me of overgrown battlement (same stats, and blossoms' successor wall of omens often saw play alongside the battlement in lots of casual games in RoE), and then I realized something: we've seen this mechanic really really recently.  Axebane Guardian is overgrown battlements 5-8. SWEET!  Time to swap out!  And with Axebane, I can also supercharge my firebreathing effects!

I did eventually settle on Harmonize (planar chaos, you so silly) for card draw.  These Harmonizes would take the place of the rancors because I think my dragons will often times be quite large enough on their own (or with a crucible of fire) and they fly anyway so they have plenty of evasion.

Fortuitously, I forgot to turn on the color filter when I went looking for card draw and was reminded of the charms (Thanks esper charm).  Jund Charm seems really really good in this deck so I want to make room for it.  Another happy result of the mana dork swapout is that the pyroclasm effect on the jund charm will no longer kill said mana dorks. 

R/G/b v2.0

Creatures (23)


Non-Creatures (14)
[deck]
4x Jund Charm
2x Harmonize
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
4x Crucible of Fire
[/deck]

Lands (23)
[deck]
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Sulfurous Springs
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Swamp
4x Forest
[/deck]

I'm not 100% certain on the ratios of charms/harmonizes/bolts/terminates, but I like this version of the deck more.

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Double post, bad me, whatevs.

I've been rethinking my choice of Harmonize for card draw.
I can ramp to kingdom come with this deck, why not go for a bigger draw spell.

Ideas (Yeah I realize some of them require a 4th color...):
Griselbrand
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Damia, Sage of Stone
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Biomantic Mastery
Recycle/Null Profusion

***************************************************************************************

From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

***************************************************************************************

Post #777

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

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