Blind Seer

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Hi.

I'm going to break [C]Blind Seer[/C] which is not as easy as it could look like. And by doing this i stumbled upon some rules I've never thought about before.

1:  I have [C]Thran Lens[/C] in play and then a [C]Painter's Servant[/C] enters the battlefield. What happens, and what would happen if the        
     scenario was reversed?

2:  Would [C]Blind Seer[/C] have any effect on [C]Mana Maze[/C]?

3:  If I use [C]Prismatic Lace[/C] or a similar enchantment on a creature while Thran Lens is on the battlefield, what would happen, and what would
     happen if I play Thran lens after having used Prismatic lace on a permanent?

4:  Would [C]Iona shield of emeria[/C] have any effect if I use Blind Seer's ability on a spell? 
1. All cards and permanents are the chosen color. If the lens enters later, cards and spells are still the chosen color, but permanents are colorless.

2.  No, see the ruling on mana maze - 








If a spell's color was changed while on the stack, use the color at the time it was when you started announcement, not as it currently is on the stack or as it was at the time it resolved.


3. Same thing with question 1. The most recent color-changing effect takes precedence.

4. No, the spell has already been cast by the time you can target it with blind seer. 


All Generalizations are Bad
1) The effect with the later time stamp wins, since both effects are applied in the same layer.

2) Well, you can change the color of the first spell to be free to cast a spell which has the same color before the change.

Edit: Hm, the ruling on the card seems to disagree with me. And I don't really agree with it.

3) Same as 1) (Prismatic Lace is an instant by the way, but that doesn't change the answer.)

4) No, Blind Seer can only change the color of a spell after it has been cast.

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"Simple questions" usually need rather complex answers, while complex questions often come down to no more than a simple "yes" or "no".

 

Then [C]Blind Seer[/C] won't have any effect on cards like [C]Pearl Medallion[/C] either?
Nope. You have to finish casting a spell before you get priority to case more spells or activate abilities like Blind Seer's. 
All Generalizations are Bad
God damn. Breaking this card is a pain.
2) Well, you can change the color of the first spell to be free to cast a spell which has the same color before the change.

Edit: Hm, the ruling on the card seems to disagree with me. And I don't really agree with it.

at the time you cast it, the spell has its original colors
it doesn't matter that you change it later, what matters is how it was cast

proud member of the 2011 community team
at the time you cast it, the spell has its original colors
it doesn't matter that you change it later, what matters is how it was cast


would Painter's Servant affect that (the colour for Mana Maze)?
I'm thinking it would and would limit players to one spell per turn
the moment it enters the stack it's the colour chosen by Servant and it's still that colour as the casting is completed

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yes, in that case it was that color when you cast it
proud member of the 2011 community team
Just found this here: www.casualplayers.org/forums/threads/man...

''Ah, damn. I was hoping no one around here would ask about that...

It's being debated on Mtg-L (the Magic rulings mailing list), and has been up there for quite some time now. It's quickly becoming the 'hot' topic asking for errata.

Reasoning? Well, the problem is, Mana Maze does not specify a time for which the color of the spell (for the purposes of Mana Maze) is 'locked.' In other words...

I cast Lightning Bolt.
I Seer it to blue.
Seer resolves.
At this point, can I play a blue Instant?
What about a Red instant?

Before anyone says it, no, the color does not 'lock' when the spell is played. Mana Maze has the word 'played' on it, but it is being used only for identifaction purposes. It uses the word only to tell you to consider the last spell played, otherwise it would read 'the last spell played this turn when it was played.' (Gibber gibber gibber.)

So, effectively, the answer to your question is:

No has a clue. <img src=" title=")" /> The Gurus on Mtg-L have agreed Mana Maze is in desperate need of errata. In the meanwhile, pick a way to play it with your group, and play it that way. There's no other way about it. <img src=" title=")" /> ''


Aren't there a rule who says something about ''card memory'' or about abilities checking for what was real when the spell being cast? 
The way I see it, is that if I change the color of a spell an opponent cast to all colors, the opponent cant cast any more colored spells that turn. But at the same time, the spell being cast don't care as long as the last spell didn't share a color with it.

Hope you understand what I'm trying to say. 
That thread is from the year 2000. The current ruling in gatherer is from 2004.
All Generalizations are Bad
Mana Maze has the word 'played' on it, but it is being used only for identifaction purposes.

That is incorrect: Mana Maze now uses the word CAST, not PLAYED.
And if you actually check Mana Maze in The Gatherer, you'll read this: «If a spell's color was changed while on the stack, use the color at the time it was when you started announcement, not as it currently is on the stack or as it was at the time it resolved.»

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

The current ruling in gatherer is from 2004.


was made on October 14, 2000 and imported into Gatherer on October 4, 2004.  (And the first ruling is from the Invasion FAQ, released October 3, 2000.)

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

Ok, I just learned that these ''if'' abilities work the same way as that stupid friend we have who only comes over if you have that certain game on the xbox. You can't fix his mind on something else, because he just won't come. 

Makes me think that the rulings on some cards is irrelevant because magic has rules to go with every exception. Like [C]Blind Seer[/C] he would have been awesome with [C]Mana Maze[/C], but no the oracle says that it only looks at the color when the spell is being cast. But then you say that we need a spesific wording for this to apply, the ''intervening if clause''. But Mana maze doesn't have the ''if clause'', and based on the wording on the actual card (also the new wording), it would really matter if the color of the card was changed. The spell is on the stack after it has been cast and also after its color has been changed. When the spell resolves it would have been the first spell cast and it colors would have been the color or colors it was changed to.

And yes, I know the oracle don't agree, but why change the ability of a card to something that the card don't mention specificaly itself. It's one card in a million. Would we in the future have to look up every card on the internet to check if the rules text has been altered? 

I'm not sure what you are saying, or what your question is.

But the ruling that explains how Mana Maze works didn't change anything, it was just clarifiying how it works.  See Argus' post, that ruling is from October 2000, Invasion was realesd in October 2000.

The change in Oracle just replaces the word "play" with the word "cast" other than that it is exaclty the same as the printed wording.  The card works now, just like it did when it was originally printed.

When the spell resolves it would have been the first spell cast and it colors would have been the color or colors it was changed to.


This may be the source of your confusion, do not confuse a spell resolving with a spell being cast, they are not the same thing.  Mana Maze doesn't care what color the last spell to resolve was.
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