Disney in talks to buy Hasbro: What does it mean for DnD?

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If a company agrees to follow the OGL and they have been found to not be following it then the license can be terminated.  One of the ways to not follow the OGL is to use IP that does not belong to the company.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

If a company agrees to follow the OGL and they have been found to not be following it then the license can be terminated.  One of the ways to not follow the OGL is to use IP that does not belong to the company.



Explain how they're doing that.
The bigger concern is how long can they tie up other companies in court until finances run out? Or how much they actually care about D&D. They're after Star Wars.



This is what is probably more likely.  Keep the other guy tied up in court, draining their funds until they settle in order to avoid rising legal fees.
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Disney, if they bought hasbro, would no more own the IP and ogl that paizo is using than hasbro does now. If hasbro hasn't sought legal action yet, Disney wouldn't either.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging. Roll dice, not cars.
Disney, if they bought hasbro, would no more own the IP and ogl that paizo is using than hasbro does now. If hasbro hasn't sought legal action yet, Disney wouldn't either.



It all depends on how much Disney actually cares about it. They are known for being relentless when it comes to protecting their IP. Like Palladium on steroids, heroine, and speed at the same time.

It's really a matter of how many loopholes their lawyers can find and how much effort they're willing to put in to it. They're a juggernaut, and they have ways of working around laws to get what they want.

Specifically speaking, they have no claim to the OGL, though. 
I mean, if paizo starts making forgotten realms supplements, then sure, Disney will destroy them. But hasbro, Disney, or d&d itself has no claim to orcs and elves, d20s, base attack bonus, or class levels.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging. Roll dice, not cars.
If a company agrees to follow the OGL and they have been found to not be following it then the license can be terminated.  One of the ways to not follow the OGL is to use IP that does not belong to the company.



Explain how they're doing that.



Now, or once Disney owns the IP?

This is my reference....from the OGLv1, which happens to be owned by WoTC.

12 Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.
13 Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.

Once disney creates a goblin and names it and trademarks it, every goblin out there will have to pass a Disney litmus test.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

If the deal goes through, does this change anything for DnD?

Nah, one set of dark corporate overlords is much like the next.

5e really needs something like Wrecan's SARN-FU to support "Theatre of the Mind."

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Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

If the deal goes through, does this change anything for DnD?

Nah, one set of dark corporate overlords is much like the next.



So, before, we had D&D with a set of Dark Overlords in TSR.  Then they were bought by WotC, gaining a new set ruling over the first set.Then they were bought by Hasbro, and gained a new set of Dark Overlords ruling over the previous set.  If Hasbro is bought by Disney, it would be Dark Overlord-ception.
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I yield, I don't know anything about US law.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I am more worried about what this means for Transformers, GI Joe, and My Little Pony.


Do those things make money?  I have little concern for them.



Well, Transformers has had three billion dollar movies made, I guess that counts for something.  And each of these brands probably makes more than the entire hobby of table top rpgs.  What is your point?  I do wonder how long the Disney legal team would allow Pathfinder to exist before they figured out some way to tear it down.  Remember, these are the people that filed suit and won against the makers of Kimba the White Lion for copyright infringement on the Lion King, despite KtWL being made before the Lion King.



They did that? Wow, since both are inspired by an African legend...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I yield, I don't know anything about US law.



Basically whoever throws the most money at the case wins...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
That works for me.  Disney has railroad cars full of cabbage.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

If Disney created a very specific version of a goblin, specific enough to be trademarked or copywrit, and paizo or another company used it without permission, then Disney sues them to hell and back.

But the goblin in the ogl is 1) not that specific and 2) not owned by Disney , even if Disney buys d&d via hasbro.

D&D has no claim to "goblin" any more than Disney has claim to Snow White. They own their particular version of Snow White, true. But not all Snow White's are the same. Theirs sings and has a blue and yellow dress with a red ribbon and lives with 7 dwarfs with silly nicknames. Mine would have different defining characteristics.

Same with d&d.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging. Roll dice, not cars.
That works for me.  Disney has railroad cars full of cabbage.



Well since the U.S. dollar is plummeting in value, I guess cabbage is more valuable...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
That works for me.  Disney has railroad cars full of cabbage.



Well since the U.S. dollar is plummeting in value, I guess cabbage is more valuable...


MY CABBAGES!....ARE WORTH MILLIONS!
Well, on the bright side, D&D will find a lot of new kids to take our places.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Maybe if Disney brought Hasbro then they would start to sell DnD products on the Hasbro web site, rather then not selling it like Hasbro is doing now?

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The War Duke as a new character at Disney World! Complete with the new ride: The Wizard's Water Slide. You can only go once per day.
Disney couldnt do a worse job at marketing the brand. 
I want a Gurgie the Goblin pillow

The War Duke as a new character at Disney World! Complete with the new ride: The Wizard's Water Slide. You can onky go once per day.



The water slide should be called Critical Spit!

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I said this a few times already.

Maybe we'll get first D&D movie out of this.



I can see that. After all, there was the The Black Cauldren and that was a Disney movie.

Other D&D avenues like the board games or pc/video games are still marketable enough to the masses to keep the D&D brand alive. As to the table top game, well I really don't see this surviving. Or it gets turned into something that is marketed for the teen/pre-teen demographic. Either case it isn't good.
While people who are really really into comics instead of just pretty into comics might know otherwise, the Marvel acquisition seems to have been only pretty dang good for Marvel. They're basically still doing their own thing, but with a little more support behind them.

Regarding Disney's lawyers doing crazy stuff to Paizo or whatever -
Disney may be somewhat bigger (it's ten times bigger in terms of stuff like revenue) and somewhat more evil (evil is difficult to quantify) than Hasbro, but Hasbro is still a ginormo company. It's possible that Disney will be more interested in trying to lawyer the heck out of competitors taking advantage of an unusual legal setup of their subsidiary's subsidiary's B-side product, associated with the version of that product from ten years ago, but it also seems very possible that they would be not any more interested in doing that than Hasbro's been.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Pirates

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/30/...

www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/business/medi...

info.legalzoom.com/legal-use-disney-char...

People will be sued for drawing goblins.



Open licenses are open. They have no claim to the OGL any more. Supreme Court has ruled that previously.




OK, so what.  Disney still makes more than enough $ to drag even a pre-determined doomed court case out to infinity & beyond.
Can Paizo hold out that long?
And then comes the apeals....
TBH, I highly doubt this happens. If it does, however unlikely, I would place my bets on Disney spinning off the WotC brand as a new independent company, as the brands WotC holds are valuable to a niche market but not enough that it really helps Disney anyway. If for some reason they would keep it, I doubt Disney changes much at WotC, and beyond film rights I don't see it affecting D&D in any way.


Although a high-production Dragonlance Chronicles film trilogy would rule...  

Just roll some dice.

 

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Pirates

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/30/...

www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/business/medi...

info.legalzoom.com/legal-use-disney-char...

People will be sued for drawing goblins.



Open licenses are open. They have no claim to the OGL any more. Supreme Court has ruled that previously.




OK, so what.  Disney still makes more than enough $ to drag even a pre-determined doomed court case out to infinity & beyond.
Can Paizo hold out that long?
And then comes the apeals....



 I think a losing side in a court case in the USA can be held accountable for the winning sides legal fees. The OGL is more or less an open and shut case.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Pirates

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/30/...

www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/business/medi...

info.legalzoom.com/legal-use-disney-char...

People will be sued for drawing goblins.



Open licenses are open. They have no claim to the OGL any more. Supreme Court has ruled that previously.




OK, so what.  Disney still makes more than enough $ to drag even a pre-determined doomed court case out to infinity & beyond.
Can Paizo hold out that long?
And then comes the apeals....



 I think a losing side in a court case in the USA can be held accountable for the winning sides legal fees. The OGL is more or less an open and shut case.



That requires there to be a verdict.  The tactic would be to draw it out so much that the side that should win can no longer afford to pay their lawyers.  Also, having the other side pay for legal fees requires a court order, it isn't a default.
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I find it almost sinister, seems soon Disney will own everything.

It's bad enough with the Star Wars deal, I really don't fancy Jedi prancing around with talking teacups while Elton John sings in the background or what-have-you.


Snow White and the Seven Ewoks

Beauty and the Sith

Sleeping Empire

The Droid King

Sitherella

The Wookie and the Tramp 

Darth Aladdin

Honey, I Blew up the Death Star 
I find it almost sinister, seems soon Disney will own everything.

It's bad enough with the Star Wars deal, I really don't fancy Jedi prancing around with talking teacups while Elton John sings in the background or what-have-you.


Snow White and the Seven Ewoks

Beauty and the Sith

Sleeping Empire

The Droid King

Sitherella

The Wookie and the Tramp 

Darth Alladin 


I'm looking forward to movies

Shifter goes West
The Little Aboleth
The Wizards Apprentice
All Paladin's go to Heaven
Sword in the Stone (with the alternate ending were the wizard has to get it out for him) 

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Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke
  Remember, these are the people that filed suit and won against the makers of Kimba the White Lion for copyright infringement on the Lion King, despite KtWL being made before the Lion King.




What?!? No, that never happened.
  Remember, these are the people that filed suit and won against the makers of Kimba the White Lion for copyright infringement on the Lion King, despite KtWL being made before the Lion King.




What?!? No, that never happened.


Got the details mixed up.  The production company for KtWL sued Disney, but the lawsuit was dropped.
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
I admit I have thought it would be joke but it can reasonably possible. Now it wouldn´t be a surprise.

Wait a moment..if Disney buy Hasbro...shall we see Star Wars and Marvel Superheroes rpg by WotC? It would be design of a new d20 Modern. Superheroes is a genre too dificoult to be designed for RPGs with levels or like d20 system. It would need years of playtesting, martial artists vs soldiers combats, spellcaster vs mechas...

But.... if it could be true....I hope new WotC and Hasbro titles for children and teenages could be with neutre ideology. Would G.I.Joe be enough pro-Northamerican patriotic? 




 







 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Disney love to mess with things, even if its i small ways...

 

For those who cant make it out, that is a Mickey War Machine... 
I admit I have thought it would be joke but it can reasonably possible. Now it wouldn´t be a surprise.

Wait a moment..if Disney buy Hasbro...shall we see Star Wars and Marvel Superheroes rpg by WotC? It would be design of a new d20 Modern. Superheroes is a genre too dificoult to be designed for RPGs with levels or like d20 system. It would need years of playtesting, martial artists vs soldiers combats, spellcaster vs mechas...

But.... if it could be true....I hope new WotC and Hasbro titles for children and teenages could be with neutre ideology. Would G.I.Joe be enough pro-Northamerican patriotic? 


 







 



Fantasy Flight Games has the rights to the Star Wars RPG atm.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

"Fantasy Flight Games has the rights to the Star Wars RPG atm." That would end up being the same thing that is happening to Spider-Man (and I think X-Men) right now. Eventually the rights will expire.
I don't know when the rights expire but they are planning on releasing books in 2015. There will be no d20 Star Wars anytime soon. I have all of the Saga books and a good chunk of the D6 ones as well so I'm good.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 


About Disney and superheroes..



It isn´t a fake, it is real episode, a official cross-over.

 

It is canon, and it a old memory from my childhood, like SuperGoofy. I suposse he isn´t so famous like Darwin Duck, from the cartoon TV show.

And about Disney and fantasy genre...

 

Didn´t you know? It is so old like Tron.



Has anybody seen it?

Do you rebember it?

 

 

Disney can´t be so bad...or can it?

* If Disney buys Hasbro... will be the end of LEGO Star Wars,..and we will see Kre-o Star Wars, Kre-o Pirate of Caribiean, or Kre-o Marvel Superheroes..

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

I think this could only help D&D related toons and movies. Other stuff D&D related, Im not sure.

These new forums are terrible.

I misspell words on purpose too draw out grammer nazis.

Understand something simple: Corporations are ultimatley driven by and are solely interested in profit.  

If an asset has potential value, it will be exploited in a deliberate (and at times an obviously greedy and clumsy) way.  The Disney corporation won't care about the legacy of D&D or Gygax and Arneson.   They won't look at how long it takes to play test a product to get it right and think that it's a good thing.  They don't care about the significant cultural aspects developed through RPG games. They will want to know how much money D&D makes, and what potential it has to make more money. D&D will become an  asset with a marked number on it.

The only thing that could save D&D really is if Disney doesn't actually consider it too much of a loss to keep around.  

We all come to these forums for a reason.  We LOVE RPGs.  D&D is our baby too.  Someone will always want to keep this game alive.  The worst case scenario would be that Disney gets a hold of Hasbro, looks at D&D and decides its worthless, then shelves it so no one can make a profit off of it.  If that were to happen, we would have less luck finding new players and dice....

Only WotC can give an accurate reading on the situation though, because they have the record of profits.  Let's just all pray that this aqcuisition doesn't kill our favorite game! 

"Lost? Confused? Lacking direction? Need to find a purpose in your life?"

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While people who are really really into comics instead of just pretty into comics might know otherwise, the Marvel acquisition seems to have been only pretty dang good for Marvel. They're basically still doing their own thing, but with a little more support behind them.

Regarding Disney's lawyers doing crazy stuff to Paizo or whatever -
Disney may be somewhat bigger (it's ten times bigger in terms of stuff like revenue) and somewhat more evil (evil is difficult to quantify) than Hasbro, but Hasbro is still a ginormo company. It's possible that Disney will be more interested in trying to lawyer the heck out of competitors taking advantage of an unusual legal setup of their subsidiary's subsidiary's B-side product, associated with the version of that product from ten years ago, but it also seems very possible that they would be not any more interested in doing that than Hasbro's been.



People really really into comics can tell you that comics have been in decline since either  year X or year Y.

X = the year when that particular person was a kid and first enjoyed a comic.

or even sadder

Y =  the year a hipster deicided was the cool year he was going to champion so he can be cool like thos old guys.