Izzet Control - Discussion and Decklists

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There's an overabundance of UR threads in Standard Deck Help. Post your decklist here and ask questions here even if your list has a whole 6 cards different.

Here's my current working list, no sideboard yet since I'm still tuning.

 

We can talk about Delver of Secrets but without a topdeck manipulation mechanic in the vein of Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, or anything with Scry you probably shouldn't be playing him.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

most izzet lists are probably better off playing with black or white

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most izzet lists are probably better off playing with black or white



You can. But the decks start to play differently. 

Way to go off topic though. 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Here's my list. I know people are going to ask about it, so here it is: Pillar of Flame is in my SB and Flames of the Firebrand because my meta is nearly zombie-less, with an abundance of mana-dork acceleration.

Planeswalker - 4
2x Chandra, the Firebrand
2x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

Creature - 4
4x Guttersnipe

Instant -23
3x Brimstone Volley
4x Syncopate
4x Izzet Charm
4x Searing Spear
3x Think Twice
3x Dissipate
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Increasing Vengeance

Sorcery - 5
3x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Devil's Play
1x Mizzium Mortars

Lands - 24
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
10x Island6x [c]Mountain

SB:
4x Pillar of Flame
2x Annihilating Fire
2x Electrickery
4x Essence Scatter
3x Unsummon
Is Snapcaster missing from your deck for budget reasons? Or? I mean Tamiyo isn't exactly budget either.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Could you go over some of your card choices, niche? Epic experiment, chandra, and devil's play I'm not sure I understand here, and annihilating flame + counterflux seem questionable.




My list:

SniperNoSniping.dec

Creatures: 12
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Guttersnipe
4 Delver of secrets

Instants: 21
4 think twice
4 desperate ravings
1 Syncopate
2 Dissipate 
1 izzet charm
3 cyclonic rift
4 searing spear
2 cackling counterpart

Sorceries: 7
3 mizzium mortars
4 pillar of flame

Lands: 20
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Steam Vents
1 desolate lighthouse
7 Mountain
7 island



No snappys due to low budget. So far having okay success flipping delver due to a total of 28 instants and sorceries. Considering making room for a  couple extra counters somehow, but uncertain what to take out for it.


Cackling counterpart is amazing tech. Works great. I can't recall ever losing a game that involved me casting it on a guttersnipe at the end of an opponent's turn.    
To start, I havent played MTG for about 2 years now, since zendikar block. Just getting back into it and want to play something a little different from the Aggro decks Ive played in the past. I liked some of the cards that came across out of the starter decks so now Im trying to make an Izzet control/burn heavy deck.

(13) x Creatures:
4x Vexing Devil
4x Goblin Electromancer
3x Guttersnipe
1x Hypersonic Dragon
1x Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius

(27) x Spells:
4x Searing Spear
4x Pillar of Flame
3x Mizzium Mortars
3x Thunderous Wrath
4x Syncopate
3x Izzet Charm
3x Dissipate
2x Reverberate
1x Epic Experiment

Lands:
4x Izzet Guildgate
X x Mountains
X x Islands

I dont have the money to drop into good lands atm, but they will come eventually.

honestly I think I can drop the goblin electromancer. Since my specified costs are so prevalent anyway it really only supports 3 or 4 cards to its potential. But since I dont have the money for snap casters Im not sure what I should change it out for.

I think you're severely underestimating the electromancer. In your deck, he makes cheaper:


searing spear
mizzium mortars (Including the overload)
syncopate (!!!)
thunderous wrath (if you fail to miricle it out for some reason) 
dissipate
epic experiment

that's 18 cards in your deck, many of which become amazing. 


If you want to keep a low land count like you have, I would take out niv-mizzet and the hypersonic dragon for some think twice. also, vexing devil should only be here if you're going for straight burn.
Could you go over some of your card choices, niche? Epic experiment, chandra, and devil's play I'm not sure I understand here, and annihilating flame + counterflux seem questionable.



Counterflux is basically advance meta tech. Win all counter wars. Win.

Annihilating fire is a little bit of a stretch but it gives extra zombies game. Don't like volley without more dudes and I have room for more burn.

Epic Experiment is a draw + play card... its very cool here. X= 7 usually rips into a couple burn spells, couple lands, a thoughtflare, and either an izzet charm/syncopate. So you face someone twice and refill your hand.

Chandra is great. Poke, control other PWs.... control decks have to work to deal with her... the inferno is strong... and being able to copy a thoughtflare, experiment, or devil's play is huge. Plus copying a pillar sometimes is enough to win a game also. High upside, low downside.

Cackling counterpart is amazing tech. Works great. I can't recall ever losing a game that involved me casting it on a guttersnipe at the end of an opponent's turn.    


My smile is only like cheshire cat big right now after you pointed out some of my choices as questionable. This guy. Rly.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hey Niche,


Nice deck. Very interested in how your match-ups have been versus your metagame, wherever you happen to be.


I favor the Goblin Elecromancer but adding too many creatures gets rid of sorceries/instants and dilutes its effects. It seems like a lot of the twinkly/tricky izzet cards are like that. Nivmagus elemental, guttersnipe, goblin electromancer, chandra, the firebrand, and others I can't recall.


Hav you found Countrflux to be that useful? Just curious because it seems like a counterspell/dissipate that only once in a while takes advantage of it's uncounterability. 


I like the snapcaster and the fact that you got rid of many unnecessary creatures in your deck. I've seen too many with Delvers that are inconsistent. 


In my mind, if an izzet deck ( meaning a red and blue ONLY ) deck is to become competitive it will either have a guttersnipe as a staple 4 include OR it will be more creature heaving and not rely on the guttersnipe so much.


Anyway, just to re-iterate, how have your matchups been?

Catowner, its a fair statement. I don't mind binning a counter or devil's play off the experiment. It's usually 2-3 value cards and 2-3 bins. But the value cards can be card draw and burn.. which in a 'most often case scenario' I'm netting a 2 or 3 for 1. I generally hit 3, miss 2. Sometimes hit 2 miss 3. Rarely miss 4, rarely hit 4. Never hit or miss 5. And the deck is set up to enjoy binning a lot of things. Plus, if I'm just trying to win with guttersnipe playing a counter to eat one of my own card draw spell and deal 4 is fine.... so not all counters are misses, technically. But you know... I get all butthurt over this stuff.

Sspidy, against control I do fine. Not a rolling either way. They get me, I get them. You have to play a tempo game and identify when you have to kill them or lose to the long game. That's not easy. For instance I had to playing 2 searing spears to the face to 10 my opponent in response to a kill on my guttersnipe... and it worked out. Zombies is ok... definitely need the pillars and fires. Against all of the battlecruiser decks you just put yourself in a position to play draw-go through the mid game until they gas out on a clutch counterspell. Then kill them before they find their card draw.

I love counterflux. Take that, negate or izzet charm.

Matchups are ok, deck is still in progress and needs a lot of testing. 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I meant out of 7 cards, 2-3 on average would be hits, and you'd have 4-5 misses.  Out of 5 cards, you'll get an average of less than 2 hits.

I don't know what you've found in testing, I'm simply applying statistics.



I was in error when I said x=7... I genuinely meant x=5. Don't often have 9 mana to try to roll someone with it. X=5 yields my above results most often. Its pretty exciting.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Is Snapcaster missing from your deck for budget reasons? Or? I mean Tamiyo isn't exactly budget either.



I would love Snaps, but I am on a budget, and felt like Tamiyo brings MUCH more to the table for the money. Not only that, damn shocklands = /. this list would definitely be stronger with snaps, though
Here's my updated list, if I was prepared to spend hundreds on Jace and Snaps :D



Cackling counterpart is amazing tech. Works great. I can't recall ever losing a game that involved me casting it on a guttersnipe at the end of an opponent's turn.    


My smile is only like cheshire cat big right now after you pointed out some of my choices as questionable. This guy. Rly.




I stand by it. I wouldn't exactly rush to run more, but it's there when I need it. Maybe my meta isn't running enough instant speed removal or something, but it's really working out for me.
most izzet lists are probably better off playing with black or white



You can. But the decks start to play differently. 

Way to go off topic though. 


it doesn't have to, while adding another dimension and very little (opportunity) cost

for starters, PW hate as either detention sphere or dreadbore 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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Here's what I'm trying out, I haven't played with it, so I really don't know how it will play out.
I also don't have a lot of cards to work with right now, but amy advice is helpful.


I obviously need some Sulfur Falls and Steam Vents, and am currently trying to get some, but what else?
BF, you've missed the point of the original post which was stated succinctly. There's a lot of UR/Izzet control decks/posts flying around. I wanted to put them all in one place for people to talk about them. This thread is not for discussion of UR(wb) decks... regardless of their wiggle room for growth/betterment. You know me, wouldn't take much to talk me into adding black to a deck. =)

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

The point was merely to consolidate threads... since a lot of people are posting about just UR control. Eventually the discussion might lead there.

Hell, once gatecrash spoils everyone is going to be playing 5cc anyway so why don't we just start junking up the Bant, America, and Grixis threads now? 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I am not really sure where we are supposed to submit these decks and I don't really know how to do the really cool formatting. I have been doing very well with it in both tournament practice and just for fun rooms on magic online. I'll post the deck, which is the combination of a few decks and just a few of my own inclusions, then I will explain a few card choices.

Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Guttersnipe
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
3 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells
3 Izzet Charm
2 Brimstone Volley
3 Syncopate
4 Think Twice
4 Searing Spear
2 Dissipate
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Mizzium Mortars

Land
10 Island
2 Sulfur Falls
8 Mountain
4 Steam Vents

Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Negate
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Smelt
2 Essence Scatter
2 Devil's Play
1 Cyclonic Rift

The first thing you will notice is that there is not Delver of Secrets. This was a very difficult decision for me to make on cutting him. He was in my deck for the first 3 renditions, but I found that with the higher land count than the older UR Delver decks that even if I got him out early he had trouble flipping. Added to that almost all decks out there are playing burn and easy removal to kill him. I needed something that just plan did more especially in the late game. So I dropped 4 Delvers and added 4 Guttersnipes. This card I was very weary about playing. When I finally added it it blew me away. With this guy on the field on turn 3 all of your card from then on read "each opponent takes 2 damage" after their text. In the late game he can help you finish off an opponent with burn. Your searing spear now does 5 damage!

The limited counters in this deck are strictly use to counter threats you cant handle with your burn or to protect your finishers. You really have to remember this! This deck is not meant to win in the early game. I very rarely lose a game after turn 10. With 5 counters in the deck and 4 snapcasters you in essence have accsess to 10 (not including izzet charm which I use its counter ability about every 4th game).

My finishers back in my first few attempts at this deck were 2 Thundermaw Hellkites and 2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. I found that Mizzet was just too vunerable to removal. Most good removal in Standard right now is at sorcery speed ie Dreadbore,  Detention Sphere, Supream Verdict.
That being said Haste is key here. I decided to drop Mezzit and add a 3rd Hellkite the other spot I filled with Talrand, Sky Summoner. I dropped something else for a 2nd Talrand but I cant remember what. Talrand works really well with Hellkite allowing your team to get to the red zone all in 1 turn. I also like Talran bc even if they can deal with him most likely you will have a token or 2 left afterward. Eventually this might just turn into 1 more Hellkite and another support spell but so far he has been working well.

Cyclonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars! In this deck these 2 cards are amazing. Early on they can help you disrupt your opponent later they can win you the game. Quite a few times I have played Rift at the end of their turn play a Hellkite on mine and put it in for leathal damage. With your ability to disrupt your opponent early you will find that being able to cast Mizzium Mortars with overload is quite easy. At 6 mana you will be wiping the board at least 30% of the time. In the really late game even snapcasting one of these bad boys back with overload is viable.

Well that's the deck I hope you like it! I can't wait to see what you post next week about Izzet. If you or any readers for that matter have any question you can find me on magic online user name TheChad0331.
I am not really sure where we are supposed to submit these decks and I don't really know how to do the really cool formatting. I have been doing very well with it in both tournament practice and just for fun rooms on magic online. I'll post the deck, which is the combination of a few decks and just a few of my own inclusions, then I will explain a few card choices.

Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Guttersnipe
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
3 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells
3 Izzet Charm
2 Brimstone Volley
3 Syncopate
4 Think Twice
4 Searing Spear
2 Dissipate
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Mizzium Mortars

Land
10 Island
2 Sulfur Falls
8 Mountain
4 Steam Vents

Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Negate
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Smelt
2 Essence Scatter
2 Devil's Play
1 Cyclonic Rift

The first thing you will notice is that there is not Delver of Secrets. This was a very difficult decision for me to make on cutting him. He was in my deck for the first 3 renditions, but I found that with the higher land count than the older UR Delver decks that even if I got him out early he had trouble flipping. Added to that almost all decks out there are playing burn and easy removal to kill him. I needed something that just plan did more especially in the late game. So I dropped 4 Delvers and added 4 Guttersnipes. This card I was very weary about playing. When I finally added it it blew me away. With this guy on the field on turn 3 all of your card from then on read "each opponent takes 2 damage" after their text. In the late game he can help you finish off an opponent with burn. Your searing spear now does 5 damage!

The limited counters in this deck are strictly use to counter threats you cant handle with your burn or to protect your finishers. You really have to remember this! This deck is not meant to win in the early game. I very rarely lose a game after turn 10. With 5 counters in the deck and 4 snapcasters you in essence have accsess to 10 (not including izzet charm which I use its counter ability about every 4th game).

My finishers back in my first few attempts at this deck were 2 Thundermaw Hellkites and 2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. I found that Mizzet was just too vunerable to removal. Most good removal in Standard right now is at sorcery speed ie Dreadbore,  Detention Sphere, Supream Verdict.
That being said Haste is key here. I decided to drop Mezzit and add a 3rd Hellkite the other spot I filled with Talrand, Sky Summoner. I dropped something else for a 2nd Talrand but I cant remember what. Talrand works really well with Hellkite allowing your team to get to the red zone all in 1 turn. I also like Talran bc even if they can deal with him most likely you will have a token or 2 left afterward. Eventually this might just turn into 1 more Hellkite and another support spell but so far he has been working well.

Cyclonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars! In this deck these 2 cards are amazing. Early on they can help you disrupt your opponent later they can win you the game. Quite a few times I have played Rift at the end of their turn play a Hellkite on mine and put it in for leathal damage. With your ability to disrupt your opponent early you will find that being able to cast Mizzium Mortars with overload is quite easy. At 6 mana you will be wiping the board at least 30% of the time. In the really late game even snapcasting one of these bad boys back with overload is viable.

Well that's the deck I hope you like it! I can't wait to see what you post next week about Izzet. If you or any readers for that matter have any question you can find me on magic online user name TheChad0331.



How do you feel about Jace, Architect of Thought or Tamiyo, the Moon Sage here?
I have actually been thinking about them a lot. I have zero experience with both if I were to add them I would just remove the talrand's and add 2 planeswalkers. Which would you suggest?
Geez clutch nugget quit dickriding tamiyo.



Tamiyo loves burn spells when she ultimates, its a true story.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Tamiyo is great because we could use more Kamigawa Planeswalkers to remind everybody how awesome it was. 
I agree with catowner. Unless you have a very a agressive control or stall oriented deck I don't think you should 'count' on ultimate abilities. I like to think of ultimates as 'nice' to haves that I probably won't get to unless I'm already winning. I like relying on the primary and secondary abilities more.
I don't like Taamiyo in this deck.  She's too slow.  A turn 5 play, at best, she doesn't make her presence felt quickly enough IMO and doesn't deal with what I find to be the primary threats that Izzet decks face right now, which in my experience have been creature based aggro and other control decks.  

Tamiyo's + 1 is nice, but Izzet already has all sorts of neat ways of dealing with beefy enemy creatures and with snapcasters we can make sure it provides net card advantage too.  With counters, burn and bounce, relying on fatties to beat this deck will be tough.  Turns 1-6 are where Izzet really struggles, and Tamiyo doesn't do anything to help you survive this. 

[C]Jace, Architect of Thought[/C], on the other hand, comes out turn 4 and can slow/stall the pain as soon as he makes it out and then provide you the extra card draw you need to start stabilizing and then take over turn 6+. 
Geez clutch nugget quit dickriding tamiyo.



Tamiyo loves burn spells when she ultimates, its a true story.



tamiyo loves spells when she ultimates

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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So I have taken your advice and dropped the talrand's in place I put a third hellkite and 1 jace a.o.t. I found that talrand's rarely changed the game and almost never wanted to tap out on turn 4 for him. As I stated before haste is just so good. Jace has been a power house. It forces the opponent to either deal with it or be buried under crazy card advantage. Right now I'm toying with the counters I have found that the majority of the things I absolutely must counter are creatures so I have been fitting in essence scatter and removing other counters. Any thoughts on that I think having 2 dissipates and 3 izzet charms will help you in some of the places where scatter can't.
I think [C]Thundermaw Hellkite[/C] is a good card but I don't think it fits very well in a pure U/R deck, unless you're using him as a finisher for Delver aggro and can finish the game on turn 5/6.

A guttersnipe/snapcaster burn/control deck isn't playing a fast aggro game.  It's looking more to survive turn 1-5 and then take complete control after turn 5/6 and then win with counters and card advantage over the next few turns.  

Thundermaw Hellkite pushes through 5 damage on turn 5 (at best) and then gives you nothing but a 5/5 flyer after that, which will likely be removed or chump blocked. 

As things stand, I'd only run him with blue if I was also splashing white and making it more of a mid-range deck with [C]Restoration Angel[/C].    

As for counters, I've mostly been running 3x [C]Dissipate[/C] with 1-2 Izzet Charms.  Dissipate is just way too good against zombies and snapcaster etc not to run it, but then I run with [C]Goblin Electromancer[/C] to make it easier to cast...
If we are keeping the thread U/R only, do we want to explore Combo/Tempo lists as well?
@Zauzich, I would say why not? Izzet is blue/red right? That's my definition of izzet so I think it counts. Any objections from other posters?
I see Izzet and think "Grixis is better".

Then I see who made the thread.

What went wrong here? 

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012

Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

It's unfathomable how stupid you are. 

Yes, there may be merit in splashing black but there is also merit in figuring out if UR is a fine deck in it's own right.  
It's unfathomable how stupid you are. 

Yes, there may be merit in splashing black but there is also merit in figuring out if UR is a fine deck in it's own right.  


It's not about how strong u/r is, it's about how strong it is relative to grixis.


Or U/W/R. 
I see what's going on here. I done been trolled.

You guys are continually missing the point.

I made the thread to get all the people posting UR decklists into one spot. The last thing I want is people talking about Grixis or America in here and running those guys back out into their own threads. Please, do it for the children. 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I only mentioned spashing white because Thundermaw Hellkite isn't ideal for just plain U/R.  He's geared towards a creature-based game, like mono-red, W/R or U/W/R, whether it be aggro or mid-range.  He's not a control deck card IMO. 
In an effort to get the thread back on topic, an izzet control deck took a top 8 at states a couple weeks ago in connecticut (10/26/12). Figured it might be worth posting?



Creatures: 8

1 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Augur of Bolas
1Lone Revenant
Niv-mizzet, Dracogenius

Instant: 18

2 Magmaquake
4 Izzet Charm
1 Thoughtflare
2 Syncopate
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Searing Spear
4 Think Twice

Sorcery: 7
1 Devil's Play
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Pillar of flame

Planeswalkers: 3
3 Jace, Architect of thought

land: 24        

6 island
6 mountain
2 desolate lighthouse
4 sulfur falls
4 steam vents
2 izzet guildgate


Discuss?
I do like a hexproof 4/4 that draws cards...  he's just not overpowered in the meta. Only rub. Let me know if anyone tests it.

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IMO this deck is extremely lacking. I have no idea how it ever made it to the top 8. My guess would be random luck. In response about hellkite not being for this deck; your goal is not to win as fast as posable and you are correct there. You either hold the dragon until you can keep open mana for a counter or you have enough back up in your hand to support a threat hitting the board ( rift, burn) and play him. With home out you have in essence given your opponent 3 more turns, bc of haste, to deal with him. If your playing a midrange deck , which seems to be popular right now, your life total should not be threatened buy turn 5 anyways. If you do happen to be playing a faster deck like WW or zombies just wait till you stabilize have extra mana and that good card advantage. Then slap hellkite down and protect the board for the win.
IMO this deck is extremely lacking. I have no idea how it ever made it to the top 8. My guess would be random luck.



Seriously? An izzet control made it to top 8, and all you can say about it is "must have been luck"?

Maybe you discuss what you don't like about the placing izzet decklist in the izzet decklist thread? A thought. It's okay for you to not like it, but you should say why. In what way do you think it's lacking?
more scroll thief decks, plz!!1!

this is where i want to be if i'm UR

also, UR control should play draw go..... and then splash for at least sphinx's revelation.... but draw-go izzet is the way to go with control

otherwise, tempo.  snapcaster plus burn is always awesome.  i think its possible.... however barely.... to build UR tempo much like UWR midrange.  it might not be as good, though... play scroll theif?     

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