How encompassing is Magic Weapon enhancement?

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 I don't think there is a cap on Hardness, but that being said there is a limited application or benifit from having a nearly indestructable sword, and if there is a case where such an item needs to be indestructable, then it would make sense to allow this, given the costs involved.
And the whole 'acid vs plusses' thing is irrelevant, since the plusses only apply to weapon-to-weapon sunder attempts, and acid is energy damage.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Salla, you are correct in that acid is energy damage, but aside from the common sense stated earlier in that normal metals will oxidize/rust/dissolve in a year, and magic ones might not, I fear you are falling into the common mistake that hardness does not apply to acid damage, just because of the slightly poor wording in the rule's paragraph.  Hardness applies to all types, just that there is not a damage type reduction for acid & sonic.  This has been clearly pointed out.  Most succinctly, in the FAQ's:

(Note:  If you are not mistaken, and I'm just reading your sentence incorrectly, I apologize)  But acid vs plusses is plusses vs hardness is hardness vs acid...)


Many animated objects have hardness scores. What
affect, if any, will an animated object’s hardness have on
spells used against the animated object? For example, an
animated wooden table would have hardness 5, right? How
would that hardness affect spells such as fireball, lightning
bolt, Melf’s acid arrow, ray of frost, and magic missile?
If the spell in question has an energy descriptor, hardness
affects the attack as noted in the rules for damaging inanimate
objects (see page 165 in the PH); here’s a summary:
• Hardness applies to acid and sonic attacks. These
attacks deal normal damage both to creatures and to
objects, and thus would deal normal damage to an
animated object (less the effect of the hardness). You
would subtract 5 points for hardness from whatever
damage a Melf’s acid arrow spell deals to the
animated table in your example.
• Hardness applies to electricity and fire attacks. These
attacks deal half damage to inanimate objects, but
animated objects are creatures and they take full
damage (less the effect of the hardness). You would
subtract 5 points for hardness from whatever damage
a fireball or lightning bolt spell deals to the animated
table in your example. Reduce the damage for a
successful saving throw before you apply hardness.
• Hardness also applies to cold damage. Cold attacks
deal one-quarter damage to inanimate objects, but
again, an animated object takes full damage less the
effect of the hardness. You would subtract 5 points of
damage for hardness from whatever damage a ray of
frost spell deals to the animated table in your
example. Since ray of frost deals only 1d3 points of
damage, it will prove ineffective against the animated
table unless you somehow increase the damage the
spell deals.
• Hardness applies to force attacks. These attacks deal
normal damage both to creatures and to objects
(when applicable), and thus would deal normal
damage to an animated object (less the effect of the
hardness). You would subtract 5 points for hardness
from whatever damage a magic missile spell deals to
the animated table in your example. A magic missile
spell normally cannot be aimed at an object. Because
an animated object is a creature, however, it can
affect the animated table in the example.


 
I had previously mentioned energy vs. hardness and believe I included the link to the relavent information in the SRD.  Where I was looking is mantioned the reductions cold, fire, and electricity take are applied before hardness while that is not mentioned when it talks about acid or sonic.  Some people would take that to mean that hardness would not apply because no mention is made of it while the other enegy types do but that just overlooks a few paragraphs previous where it states that hardness always applies.  The reason things are stated for the other energy types is so that someone doesn't apply hardness and THEN reduce the remaining energy; the text is there to make sure it is applied in the correct, and most beneficial, way.
 
Though on an magic weapon enchanting it as everbright already protects it from its biggest energy vulnerability until someone comes up with a way to liquify sonic energy (for full immersion).

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Though on an magic weapon enchanting it as everbright already protects it from its biggest energy vulnerability until someone comes up with a way to liquify sonic energy (for full immersion).

You've obviously never been to an Iron Maiden concert.
but what happen whit the items than dont have enhancement bonus and her HP and hardness ???

Like the ring of epic protection???
The cloack of epic resistance???
The brecers of Armor +10???
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
but what happen whit the items than dont have enhancement bonus and her HP and hardness ???

Like the ring of epic protection???
The cloack of epic resistance???
The brecers of Armor +10???

Weapons and Swords are the only items the give Hardness/hp per enhancement bonus Oma, other items are as per the physical description, ie:


Magic Rings all have AC 13, Hardness 10, 2 HP and a Break DC of 25.


Wonderous Items varry since it can be anything from a thin cloth to steal gauntlets, whch is probably just too numerous to list so the DM should make a best guess depending on material etc
but what happen whit the items than dont have enhancement bonus and her HP and hardness ???

Like the ring of epic protection???
The cloack of epic resistance???
The brecers of Armor +10???

Weapons and Swords are the only items the give Hardness/hp per enhancement bonus Oma, other items are as per the physical description, ie:


Magic Rings all have AC 13, Hardness 10, 2 HP and a Break DC of 25.


Wonderous Items varry since it can be anything from a thin cloth to steal gauntlets, whch is probably just too numerous to list so the DM should make a best guess depending on material etc

sorry read the Rule Compendium now all the item with enhancement bonus have bonus in HP and harness
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
sorry read the Rule Compendium now all the item with enhancement bonus have bonus in HP and harness

What's your quote for that?  I don't see anything in the Rules Compendium that states this for all items.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Oma, many magic items, such as Wands, Rings, Rods etc don't have Enhancement bonuses.

and secondly the Rules Compendium is simply a compelation of the base rule books, the same rule in the DMG is in the Compendium.

And why ask a question if you apparently have the answer?  Why would the compendium contradict the DMG and then not state what that enhancement bonus actually gives the items? 

The Ring of Invisibility doesn't have an enhancement bonus so "AC 13, Hardness 10, 2 HP and a Break DC of 25." is a pretty good answer.
o yes sorry i miss the restriction, then again if someone respawn in a pool of acid all her magic items are destroyed minus the armor the weapon and the shield??? as example a epic character with all her epic equip are destrolled because only have 2 hps and 10 hardness and the pool deal 35 acid damages per turn only epic rules do it
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
o yes sorry i miss the restriction, then again if someone respawn in a pool of acid all her magic items are destroyed minus the armor the weapon and the shield??? as example a epic character with all her epic equip are destrolled because only have 2 hps and 10 hardness and the pool deal 35 acid damages per turn

35 Acid damage is alot of damage for a pool of acid Oma, realy Mundane Acid should be in the order fo 1d4 or 1d6 damage. Especially if it is a permenent pool of acid just sitting there. I can see for a fireball or dragon's breath weapon, as a flash effct, but a stationary pool of it? Abit excessive.

Anything that deals that level of damage on a permanent basis should be expected to be damaging/destroying magical items?

My advice is that Magic items have saving throws, and they get them even when mundane items wouldn't. So in cases like the above, the saving throw might be eough to save it for a considerable time. Assuming you are using a 10d6 Fireball:energy substitution Acid as the basis (or some such spell) then a save would be appropriate.
o yes sorry i miss the restriction, then again if someone respawn in a pool of acid all her magic items are destroyed minus the armor the weapon and the shield??? as example a epic character with all her epic equip are destrolled because only have 2 hps and 10 hardness and the pool deal 35 acid damages per turn

35 Acid damage is alot of damage for a pool of acid Oma, realy Mundane Acid should be in the order fo 1d4 or 1d6 damage. Especially if it is a permenent pool of acid just sitting there. I can see for a fireball or dragon's breath weapon, as a flash effct, but a stationary pool of it? Abit excessive.

Anything that deals that level of damage on a permanent basis should be expected to be damaging/destroying magical items?

My advice is that Magic items have saving throws, and they get them even when mundane items wouldn't. So in cases like the above, the saving throw might be eough to save it for a considerable time. Assuming you are using a 10d6 Fireball:energy substitution Acid as the basis (or some such spell) then a save would be appropriate.

sorry a total immersion in acid deal 10 d 6 without save a standard damage of 35

as example a circle of teleportation trap that spawn you in the bottom of a pool of acid.

and about spell the rules prevent the magic items to be destroyed from area spells while are with you and a fireball don't deal damage to attended objects then is userless to destroy magic objects become the fireball in a acidball.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, you should stop using the term "normal acid" when you are describing an acid pit that deals 10d6 damage for immersion.  There is nothing "normal" about it and while the damage may not need to be magical in origin it is not something that mmmmost will consider normal.  Do you have any idea what the DC would be on your "teleport someone into an enclosed pool of acid trap that is under the effect of an anti-magic field trap" will be?  I guess one of the books may help with that but it easily be a VERY high level trap; a big problem with many high level traps is that they are either easily defeated (detected and disarmed or just have a worthless minion set it off) or they are LETHAL.  That trap is something that could potetially kill epic level characters so you had better believe it can destroy equipment with relative ease.
 

In my opinion your "acid pool" that deals 10d6 acid damage is going to be the equivalent of throwing someone real into a vat of acid at industrial strength concentrations.  I certainly do not consider those things to be normal or really even natural.  Such a situation is going to be very damaging to just about everything.
 
"Normal Acid" is i the PHB, in an acid flask, it deals 1d6 damage.

A permanent 10d6 pool of acid is not normal by any means, a source would be called for here.

As for how this damages things, such a pool of acid should be capable of destroying even magical items, it clearly is not normal acid, no more then calling molten lava in a volvano normal fire.

Oma, you should stop using the term "normal acid" when you are describing an acid pit that deals 10d6 damage for immersion.  There is nothing "normal" about it and while the damage may not need to be magical in origin it is not something that mmmmost will consider normal.  Do you have any idea what the DC would be on your "teleport someone into an enclosed pool of acid trap that is under the effect of an anti-magic field trap" will be?  I guess one of the books may help with that but it easily be a VERY high level trap; a big problem with many high level traps is that they are either easily defeated (detected and disarmed or just have a worthless minion set it off) or they are LETHAL.  That trap is something that could potetially kill epic level characters so you had better believe it can destroy equipment with relative ease.
 

In my opinion your "acid pool" that deals 10d6 acid damage is going to be the equivalent of throwing someone real into a vat of acid at industrial strength concentrations.  I certainly do not consider those things to be normal or really even natural.  Such a situation is going to be very damaging to just about everything.
 

sorry is still natural and normal acid instead of magical acid and this still work in antimagic field, come in DMG, DMG2 and Rule Compendium

still this other world not our world

and the DC is as normal 10+9 (level of the spell)+4 (Minimum Score to cast) = 23 will
average damage 35 this trap is not epic is maybe CR 15-20 depending the deep of the pool.

"Normal Acid" is i the PHB, in an acid flask, it deals 1d6 damage.

A permanent 10d6 pool of acid is not normal by any means, a source would be called for here.

As for how this damages things, such a pool of acid should be capable of destroying even magical items, it clearly is not normal acid, no more then calling molten lava in a volvano normal fire.




Then magma is not normal??? is supernatural or magic???

"Most pools are made of water, but anything’s possible in a dungeon. Pools can hold unsavory substances such as blood, poison, oil, or magma. And even if a pool holds water, it can be holy water, saltwater, or water tainted with disease."


THE ENVIRONMENT


ACID EFFECTS

Corrosive acids deals 1d6 points of damage per round of exposure except in the case of total immersion (such as into a vat of acid [Like mexican narcs, in my contry this is too normal]), which deals 10d6 points of damage per round. An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster’s spittle, counts as a round of exposure.


The fumes from most acids are inhaled poisons. Those who come close enough to a large body of acid to dunk a creature in it must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. All such characters must make a second save 1 minute later or take another 1d4 points of Constitution damage.


Creatures immune to acid’s caustic properties might still drown in it if they are totally immersed (see Drowning).



Lava Effects

Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round.


Damage from magma continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round).


An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma. However, a creature immune to fire might still drown if completely immersed in lava (see Drowning, below).

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, by normal fire I am refering to common fires, a campfire, a forge, those are normal fires. Magma is typically not seen as being "normal" fire. The fact that it would melt a Forge that would normally be considered "fireproof"

Similairly dropping someone in a vat of acid to fully emmerse them, with no escape, typically kills them, unless they are pulled out quick enough.

Tha aside, typically in those situations we don't damage the gear unless the person is dead. Even Epic magic items are not artifacts so something that kills an Epic level character is going to destroy epic level items just as easily. Not sure what your point is here.

Like I say, i am disinclined to apply the damage to both player and each of his items, I am unsure if there is a specific rule about that, but it seems rather harsh, lets say they survive a couple of rounds in the acid, someone such as a Wizard would be left naked in seconds 
the you are saying that a player immune to acid (natural way like a dragon) can stay in acid holding flowers and other things and this never be damaged?? maybe for this reason the dragons are always naked and never use items Tongue Out
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
"Normal Acid" is i the PHB, in an acid flask, it deals 1d6 damage.

A permanent 10d6 pool of acid is not normal by any means, a source would be called for here.

As for how this damages things, such a pool of acid should be capable of destroying even magical items, it clearly is not normal acid, no more then calling molten lava in a volvano normal fire.


I completely agree with this and even mentioned "normal acid" as being what you find in an acid flask when THIS issue first came up.  It's interesting when "vats of acid" are considered "normal" when those situations are going to involve acid in higher then "normal" concentrations (ie. stronger acids) and volumes; things don't really need to be magical inorder to be unnatural.

I believe DnD assumes that most magical immunities will also extend to a character's immediate possessions.  That means that someone who is immune to acid also gives that immunity to the armor he wears and the weapon he currently wields; if the item becomes seperated from the character then it would be subjected to the element normally.

Now I may not want to admit this but even if someone survived a plunge into the acid vat or a dip into molten lava/metal/whatever and get pulled out alive the stuff they were wearing may still be in big trouble.  Especially with the acid a "full submersion" is going to leave a character coated in the stuff and continue to burn until it is somehow neutralized; to get it off the character that will often mean stripping the character as quickly as possible and those things would also need to be neutralized.  DnD often does a very poor job immitating that effect.


As for dragons never using items it seems to me like someone doesn't use their dragons to full potential. When you use a creature you should generate (or choose) its "treasure" before it is used and if any of it happens to be usable by the creature you should make darn sure the creature uses it.  If I use a dragon you'd better believe it will be using any magic items it has which it is capable of using which is pretty much anything except weapons and armor.
 
"Normal Acid" is i the PHB, in an acid flask, it deals 1d6 damage.

A permanent 10d6 pool of acid is not normal by any means, a source would be called for here.

As for how this damages things, such a pool of acid should be capable of destroying even magical items, it clearly is not normal acid, no more then calling molten lava in a volvano normal fire.


I completely agree with this and even mentioned "normal acid" as being what you find in an acid flask when THIS issue first came up.  It's interesting when "vats of acid" are considered "normal" when those situations are going to involve acid in higher then "normal" concentrations (ie. stronger acids) and volumes; things don't really need to be magical inorder to be unnatural.

I believe DnD assumes that most magical immunities will also extend to a character's immediate possessions.  That means that someone who is immune to acid also gives that immunity to the armor he wears and the weapon he currently wields; if the item becomes seperated from the character then it would be subjected to the element normally.

Now I may not want to admit this but even if someone survived a plunge into the acid vat or a dip into molten lava/metal/whatever and get pulled out alive the stuff they were wearing may still be in big trouble.  Especially with the acid a "full submersion" is going to leave a character coated in the stuff and continue to burn until it is somehow neutralized; to get it off the character that will often mean stripping the character as quickly as possible and those things would also need to be neutralized.  DnD often does a very poor job immitating that effect.


As for dragons never using items it seems to me like someone doesn't use their dragons to full potential. When you use a creature you should generate (or choose) its "treasure" before it is used and if any of it happens to be usable by the creature you should make darn sure the creature uses it.  If I use a dragon you'd better believe it will be using any magic items it has which it is capable of using which is pretty much anything except weapons and armor.
 

ok, you are agree that non magical acid can exist in pot

ok is almost the same but instead of a pot is a full pool with acid that you dont thrown to deal 1d6 or 10d6 (thats can be done with alchemist in a simple little pot)

And remember this is D&D not the real world, where a pool of acid exist in natural sources

yes magical immunity fall over the items but i speak about mundane immunity, what happen if some half-red dragon want to swim in a pool of magma??? or a half-green dragon want to swim in the bottom of her pool of acid

as example maybe the half-green dragon fall in the trap and he dont have any problem but he dont have any magic to protect him the only her body are immune to the acid, what happen with her items???

and dragons generally dont use item for her pride and greed and the balance of her power.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma I am still unsure of what your point is, You are talking high level encounters with high level characters, or else you are obliterating low level characters, either way considering the overwhelming nature of the acid damage you are proposing, I think it is moot.

As for damage to the Items, this is goin to be a case by case desicion by the DM, some items might be immune to Acid damage, Glass for example, and maybe some other materials. As well not all items will be directly exposed to the acid, Rings underneath gauntlets or gloves, necklaces under tunics. Etc.

Also one of the reasons we typically only give damage to the target and notthe equipment is first, it keep sit simple, and second, if the equipment takes damage should it thus be giving the person protection from said damage?

If I am wearing, say thick leather armor, how long and how much does that armor cover my body and protect me from the acid?

If you want realism and say the equipment takes damage, then if I fall in one round and get pulled out, being covered for part of that should afford me a reduction in that damage.

I also would look that the CR of the trap when deciding this. A character might be able to survive a few rounds in such an acid, especially at the higher levels, however I feel the total losse of gear from the trap might be disproportionate to the CR, a high level characer that looses all their gear may as well be dead.
Oma I am still unsure of what your point is, You are talking high level encounters with high level characters, or else you are obliterating low level characters, either way considering the overwhelming nature of the acid damage you are proposing, I think it is moot.

As for damage to the Items, this is goin to be a case by case desicion by the DM, some items might be immune to Acid damage, Glass for example, and maybe some other materials. As well not all items will be directly exposed to the acid, Rings underneath gauntlets or gloves, necklaces under tunics. Etc.

Also one of the reasons we typically only give damage to the target and notthe equipment is first, it keep sit simple, and second, if the equipment takes damage should it thus be giving the person protection from said damage?

If I am wearing, say thick leather armor, how long and how much does that armor cover my body and protect me from the acid?

If you want realism and say the equipment takes damage, then if I fall in one round and get pulled out, being covered for part of that should afford me a reduction in that damage.

I also would look that the CR of the trap when deciding this. A character might be able to survive a few rounds in such an acid, especially at the higher levels, however I feel the total losse of gear from the trap might be disproportionate to the CR, a high level characer that looses all their gear may as well be dead.

you can lower this  CR to a simple pit with acid to CR 7 in a very easy trap and deal 35 damages  a character level 5 can survive whit a CON of +0

Then you can use a Tower Shield of Glass to stop acid breads and rays (if you have the feat to use against touch)

The leather is impregnated with acid and hurt you.

the metal is not attached to your body and have slits for something you can move and fluid enters and damages you
.

Then you think that the items make the players, under the rules of D&D only at epic levels if you have low equipment this give you -2 to your CR no more.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, That really is still my point. The damage done to the character might be appropriate for the CR of the trap, however also doing that damage to the character's equipment isn't balanced with the trap's CR.

A Fighter with a 14 Con and max rolls each level might survive 1 round of this acid, but he'd be dead next round. In actual (averge roll HD per level) he has a 50% chnce of survivig the first round in the acid and is likel killed the second round.

a Character with a Con 10, and mid to low Hit Die, would most likely be killed in the first round, a wizard's chance of survival is nill.

and the fact is it is highly unlikely that they will get out of the Acid before their next turn. So they are likely dead.

So he trap is bad enough as is, destroying their equipment if they are lucky enough to get out of it, that's IMO not in line with the trap's CR.

As for items protecting a player. Leather is water resistant, leather armor is treated leather and should be resistant to liquids if not outright waterproof. Acid would get around the joints of armor, I agree, but it would still provide for initial protection, and even at that it limits the amount of acid that pours in.

My point here is that doing full damage to both the player and all his equipment is not in line with the Challenge Rating of this trap.

As for realism, here is where one shoudl consider the properties of acid. Humans reacte poorly to exposure to acid because our bodies are 60% water, we would be like Alk-Seltzer in this acid, Pop-Fizz!  In real life the same acid that if dumped on me would send me to the nearest hospital's emergency room, possibly kill me, I would soak metal parts in to clean.

Metal items have hardness you would say, which is fair enough, what I am saying is that at a certain pointyou have to distinguish between taking direct damage to just "how would that react?" and consider that acid would effect a biological, living creature faster then solid objects.

For example, Lets say a forge does 2d12 Fire Damage and the Hammer/anvil combination does 1d12, a total of 3d12 damage. More then enough to beat a short sword's hardness. So how do I repair a sword by damaging it? 

The answer is we look at the nature ofthe damage and alter it accordingly. It makes sense to do a Round per round damage for exposure to acid on a human, so stepping ack and deciding which items would be destroyed first (mundane clothing for example) and which items might take abit before seriously reacting

ie thick leather resists getting wet and so might take a round or 2 of being submerged before the liquid soaks through it and it starts to react to the acid.

Applying the damage to the person first, and then to the gear after is more fitting to the CR. In the case of a playe falling into acid, he would take damage, and maybe sme mundane gear (clothing etc, would take damage) But I would leave most serious gear alone until after he died.
Oma, That really is still my point. The damage done to the character might be appropriate for the CR of the trap, however also doing that damage to the character's equipment isn't balanced with the trap's CR.

A Fighter with a 14 Con and max rolls each level might survive 1 round of this acid, but he'd be dead next round. In actual (averge roll HD per level) he has a 50% chnce of survivig the first round in the acid and is likel killed the second round.

a Character with a Con 10, and mid to low Hit Die, would most likely be killed in the first round, a wizard's chance of survival is nill.

and the fact is it is highly unlikely that they will get out of the Acid before their next turn. So they are likely dead.

So he trap is bad enough as is, destroying their equipment if they are lucky enough to get out of it, that's IMO not in line with the trap's CR.

As for items protecting a player. Leather is water resistant, leather armor is treated leather and should be resistant to liquids if not outright waterproof. Acid would get around the joints of armor, I agree, but it would still provide for initial protection, and even at that it limits the amount of acid that pours in.

My point here is that doing full damage to both the player and all his equipment is not in line with the Challenge Rating of this trap.

As for realism, here is where one shoudl consider the properties of acid. Humans reacte poorly to exposure to acid because our bodies are 60% water, we would be like Alk-Seltzer in this acid, Pop-Fizz!  In real life the same acid that if dumped on me would send me to the nearest hospital's emergency room, possibly kill me, I would soak metal parts in to clean.

Metal items have hardness you would say, which is fair enough, what I am saying is that at a certain pointyou have to distinguish between taking direct damage to just "how would that react?" and consider that acid would effect a biological, living creature faster then solid objects.

For example, Lets say a forge does 2d12 Fire Damage and the Hammer/anvil combination does 1d12, a total of 3d12 damage. More then enough to beat a short sword's hardness. So how do I repair a sword by damaging it? 

The answer is we look at the nature ofthe damage and alter it accordingly. It makes sense to do a Round per round damage for exposure to acid on a human, so stepping ack and deciding which items would be destroyed first (mundane clothing for example) and which items might take abit before seriously reacting

ie thick leather resists getting wet and so might take a round or 2 of being submerged before the liquid soaks through it and it starts to react to the acid.

Applying the damage to the person first, and then to the gear after is more fitting to the CR. In the case of a playe falling into acid, he would take damage, and maybe sme mundane gear (clothing etc, would take damage) But I would leave most serious gear alone until after he died.

a flaying wizar level 5 maybe not fall in a pit. and the damage make this trap CR 7 in a simple pit
and if you fall you take 35 damage the you in your turn go out and at the end of your turn you are out and dont take damage
 D 10 with Con +2 Lv 5
10+6+5+6+5+10=42 Survive
D8 with Con+2 Lv 5
8+5+4+5+4+10=36 Survive

yes water not acid that can slits in the armor (try to jump to a pool in an armor dont dont get wet seriously)

about your example of the hammer, this a specified rule of craft the do that the skill say over general rules like the rebuke undead and the fear effect over undeads.

Then if a character like a hald green dragon want to drag an item to the acid this item never take damage???? util he drop it????

what happen is this creature is in a ready action to drag the Portable Hole of a player then he do it and the player and him do STR check for the Portable Hole and this item go down to the acid and the the player take it (taking little damage for don't stay in total immersion) but the Portable Hold maybe suffering damage or not (full immersion)? because it was never unattended
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.

Oma, let me explain again.


I do not mean to imply that a person wouldn't get wet jumping in, but that we wouldn't get wet as fast as a naked person getting in. Or more specific to the point, that all my items might not get wet, or fully wet.


For example If I, right now, were to jum in a pool of water and then get out, yes I would be soaked. I've been in this exact situation below.


Except for my eather jacket, the water would bead right off it, shake it dry, see it ould take more then a round for it to soak through, even if I am drenched underneath.


My boots, BTW would remain dry, as would my socks. I refer to my work boots to be sure, but the point stands that liquids don't penetrate it right away. How about my wallet? The one in my pocket?

Oh it's dry. Good thing too because my cell phone was in the same pocket.

And my back pack? Ya the outside of it is wet, bu the insides are unscathed.

Oh, and my head didn't go under? oh wow, my head is dry, Yay! So is my hat and hair.

So Yes i am wet, my pants, and shirt is wet, my jacket isn't, my boots aren't


As for your hp Calculation, that is pretty generous, yes a Fighter type with good Con and HP at full health has a 50% chance of survival, Oma 10d6 is a Theoretical average of 35.

How about a Fighter Con 12, with 29 HP, or Rogue with 10 Con, 6 +2+3+2+3, 16 HP or a Wizard with 10 hp? You are using onluy the best case scenerios and they are far from realistic.

And getting out the next round? no sorry, you are applying the rules wrong. The PC has to get out of the acid, BEFORE the start of their next turn, not at the end of that turn.

Oma, Ongoing Damage is taken at the Start of a turn, if they are still in the acid at the start of their turn then they take damage again.

As for the item being bathed din acid forever?

Ok lets start with a mundane Sword, Hardness 10, normally it takes no damage from being dipped in acid, as per what I suggest. But you are forgetting the second part of my suggestion. Over time is different then a round per round basis.

Over time, a sword would rust and leather would rot in water, prolonged contact with acid  should effect even things that would normally resist short term damage. Gutta Lavet Lapidum.

See I am suggesting that you don't apply damage to the items for the first couple of rounds, not for prolonged exposure, after they die or if they are in the acid for a long time, then I would start applying acid damage.

As for an acid immune creature. If it is a magical immunity (ring of energy resistance) then that applies to all the carried and worn items as well.

Oma, let me explain again.


I do not mean to imply that a person wouldn't get wet jumping in, but that we wouldn't get wet as fast as a naked person getting in. Or more specific to the point, that all my items might not get wet, or fully wet.


For example If I, right now, were to jum in a pool of water and then get out, yes I would be soaked. I've been in this exact situation below.


Except for my eather jacket, the water would bead right off it, shake it dry, see it ould take more then a round for it to soak through, even if I am drenched underneath.


My boots, BTW would remain dry, as would my socks. I refer to my work boots to be sure, but the point stands that liquids don't penetrate it right away. How about my wallet? The one in my pocket?

Oh it's dry. Good thing too because my cell phone was in the same pocket.

And my back pack? Ya the outside of it is wet, bu the insides are unscathed.

Oh, and my head didn't go under? oh wow, my head is dry, Yay! So is my hat and hair.

So Yes i am wet, my pants, and shirt is wet, my jacket isn't, my boots aren't


As for your hp Calculation, that is pretty generous, yes a Fighter type with good Con and HP at full health has a 50% chance of survival, Oma 10d6 is a Theoretical average of 35.

How about a Fighter Con 12, with 29 HP, or Rogue with 10 Con, 6 +2+3+2+3, 16 HP or a Wizard with 10 hp? You are using onluy the best case scenerios and they are far from realistic.

And getting out the next round? no sorry, you are applying the rules wrong. The PC has to get out of the acid, BEFORE the start of their next turn, not at the end of that turn.

Oma, Ongoing Damage is taken at the Start of a turn, if they are still in the acid at the start of their turn then they take damage again.

As for the item being bathed din acid forever?

Ok lets start with a mundane Sword, Hardness 10, normally it takes no damage from being dipped in acid, as per what I suggest. But you are forgetting the second part of my suggestion. Over time is different then a round per round basis.

Over time, a sword would rust and leather would rot in water, prolonged contact with acid  should effect even things that would normally resist short term damage. Gutta Lavet Lapidum.

See I am suggesting that you don't apply damage to the items for the first couple of rounds, not for prolonged exposure, after they die or if they are in the acid for a long time, then I would start applying acid damage.

As for an acid immune creature. If it is a magical immunity (ring of energy resistance) then that applies to all the carried and worn items as well.


if this happen at the start of the turn the he fall in the acid and her turn start, he take 35 damages and then remain alive and escape out and in her next turn he still alive.

and again the CR is based in the rules like a Orc barbarian CR 5 with a Will save of +0 (+2 in rage) that fall under Sleep of a level 1 Character or like power word kill that maybe kill only mages (as starting spell) and the trap is CR 7 with a DC 14 to reflex ,Search and Disable Divice

Damage CR +5
Liquid (Acid) CR +5
Save, Disable, Search CR -3
Poison +1
CR 8 (i was miss the poison effect)

And about the pool yes your item will survive but you still are seriusly wet then you take the 10d6 of damage instead of 1d6 for a splash of acid (if was acid and not water), as example a Full plate of a green dragon maybe resist the acid but still a lot of acid slits in and you take 10 D 6 of damages

At last under the specific rules what happen with the items of a character that dont have any magic protection over her items (like the spells or power) and fall in a pool of acid or magma (total immersion)??? because the only rule I found is again magic or power attacks.

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, it is unlikely for soemone to fall into a pit and then get out of it on the same turn. Lets say the player is walking along, that is a move action, and they step on a trap and fall into a pit, they take acid damage and that pretty well ends their turn.

Most pit traps in paticular are designed to drop the victem into a pool, so a 10 foot pool of acid in the bottom of a 20 foot pit isn't something you can just leap out of. In most cases it isn't a matter of someone else in the party simply snatching you out the same round. Perhaps a character has an item that allows teleport as a swift action or what ever.

But the most likely case is that the person falling in takes 2 or more rounds to get back out, and they are going to take damage at the start of each round. If you aren't counting on 2 to 3 rounds, then you are putting down the wrong trap.


If you are killing the character, then go ahead and destroy the items as well, but if you want them to have any reasonable chance to live, then this is the wrong trap and destroying the items is a mistake imo  

another thing to consider is the CR of this trap, if you destroy their gear as well as hurt or kill the victem.


A Cr 6 trap also does 10d6 damage, a lighting bolt to be presice. However it gives both a reflex save for half damage and doesn't damage any of their gear. So when you make it CR 7, no save for half damage then the CR does not match destroying their gear. In terms of a resource drain I would add +5 or more to the traps CR for the added effect of destroying the victim's gear even if they survive.

      
Oma, it is unlikely for soemone to fall into a pit and then get out of it on the same turn. Lets say the player is walking along, that is a move action, and they step on a trap and fall into a pit, they take acid damage and that pretty well ends their turn.

Most pit traps in paticular are designed to drop the victem into a pool, so a 10 foot pool of acid in the bottom of a 20 foot pit isn't something you can just leap out of. In most cases it isn't a matter of someone else in the party simply snatching you out the same round. Perhaps a character has an item that allows teleport as a swift action or what ever.

But the most likely case is that the person falling in takes 2 or more rounds to get back out, and they are going to take damage at the start of each round. If you aren't counting on 2 to 3 rounds, then you are putting down the wrong trap.


If you are killing the character, then go ahead and destroy the items as well, but if you want them to have any reasonable chance to live, then this is the wrong trap and destroying the items is a mistake imo  

another thing to consider is the CR of this trap, if you destroy their gear as well as hurt or kill the victem.


A Cr 6 trap also does 10d6 damage, a lighting bolt to be presice. However it gives both a reflex save for half damage and doesn't damage any of their gear. So when you make it CR 7, no save for half damage then the CR does not match destroying their gear. In terms of a resource drain I would add +5 or more to the traps CR for the added effect of destroying the victim's gear even if they survive.

      

First you only take damage one time.

Continuous Damage
If you’re taking continuous damage, such as from a Melf’s acid arrow spell, half the damage is considered to take place while you’re taking your actions. If the last damage dealt was the final damage that the effect could deal, then the damage is over and can’t distract you. Repeated damage isn’t the same as and doesn’t count as continuous damage.

Second you need to fail the DC 14 of reflexes then you fall in the trap then at start of your turn you take 35 damage and save fortitud with a DC of 13 for poison and starting suffocation then you need make a DC 10 Swim to go up (leave suffocation) and a DC 10 climb to leave the pit a easy task for a character level 8


Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
When and why has this thread degenerated into talking about death traps?
When and why has this thread degenerated into talking about death traps?

It panders to our subconscious human desire to be Bond villains.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

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When and why has this thread degenerated into talking about death traps?

has to do with the destruction of items and levels that can happen

because maybe you can survive but the main point is what happen whit the items.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, that iswhy continuous damage is done at the beginning of the character's turn. "If the last damage dealt was the final damage that the effect could deal, then the damage is over and can’t distract you."

If you start your turn in the acid pit, you take damage, then get out of the pit with a move action, you could then cast a spell (standard action) and the damage taken at the start of your turn wouldn't make you do a concentration check.

The start of your turn happens during your turn.

Either way we are talking about a trap that deals enough damage that the strongest of characters only have maybe a 50% chance of surviving the first round with a near 100% chance of killing them by the second round (except for the rare case in ideal circumstances where someone manages to get out before the second round)

So if we are talking about the Magic equipment of a dead PC laying in the bottom of a pit of acid dealing 10d6 damage a round, then this is a moot conversation. even their strongest gear, a +1 greatsword or +full plate armorarmor, is only going to last a few rounds under those conditions.

As for the first round, You will take a move action to get to the pit trap, and then fall prone into the pit, the second move action would be to make a swim check to get to the surface which leaves swift action, not entirely sure what one can do at that level with a swift action to escape.

What can his party members do to save him before his next turn (if he isn't already dead) lower a rope? He won't be able to grab onto it until his next turn, and he will take acid damage again at the start of the turn.

The most probable scenerio here is that he takes 2 or 3 rounds of acid damage, that is 70 to 180 damage. And we are talking about swim and climb checks, most likely (if they have enough HP to survive) someone in plate armor with harsh armor check penelties.

So yes we are most certainly talking the death of any mid to low level character in such a trap, and what happens to the magic items is moot as thy end up in the bottom of the pool.

all I am suggesting is that during those 6 to 12 seconds that you don't apply an serious acid damage to his worn magic items, as this would be more in line with the CR of the trap. I am refering to short exposure, not prolonged exposure.

If the character dies, destroy the gear by all means, it will control the surviving parties wealth better, but if the character survives, destroying his gear is, imo, too harsh.

Is it realstic? I offer that humans are 60% water and are thus more vulnerable to acid. Look at my shirt, the colors have never been brighter, but I wouldn't want to bath in laundry soap and bleach because I would be lucky to get away with a full body rash. 
??? 2 or 3??? the turn and damage dont start until the initiative start.
as example if you fall in a pit you take the fall damage and start your turn the act of falling don't count as part of any turn.

then when you fall in the pit the round start and you take damage and you can do your standard and your move that is enough to leave the pit in 1 turn with DCs of 10.

And the main point is what happened with the magic items, are indestructibles while are with the character alive???

and again this trap maybe the mage is the only one that dont have it easy, because a rouge can leave fall in it and a warrior can survive it.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, how do you fall into a pit trap if not during your turn? You can only walk into a trap if you are taking a move action, even if you are not in combat as soon as the trap springs it should be played out in rounds. 

You fall into a pit of acid, and that ends your turn, as this is technically the suprise round you can only take one action (that was the one that you took to walk into a trap). Then on the next round everyone acts normaly and you can one that wound take your move actions to try and get out, and you take damage again.
  
And while a Warrior could survive one round, "could" being like 50% chance, he is less likely to survive the second round, and since we are talking about the damage to the magic items, we assume the rogue (and not the red guy) failed his saving throw.

So yes, expect 2 or 3 rounds of damage from such a trap, and with the character death the question of magic items surviving is moot.

But that is niether here nor there, we are refering to how much damage the items take.


It is my advice, as noted already, that you DO NOT apply damage to the characters magic items, because to me this changes the CR of the trap, as a general rule we don't apply damage to a character's items unless the items are specifically targeted.

For example, when you are in combat and take damage, you notice that your armor isn't being destroyed? even when wearing full plate? After the fight you aren't repairing the dents and holes in it are you? and what about your sword, in real life swords break when you slam them repeatedly against someones armor and shield. But we gloss over that in most game systems because it isn't what we are there for.

Again, if you want realism, then step outside of round per round combat and veiw it as chemical reactions. The human body is 60% water and will react badly in acid. Objects are generally more solid and not mostly water, and as such tend to be less reactive to acids, so the DM is free to allow a couple of rounds without items taking damage. That is my suggestion anyways.

If you want prolonged contact with acids, particularly a powerful acid, then I am saying go ahead and destroy the items, even powerful, epic magic items aren't artifacts. 

Just be fair about it, if the player does manage to survive falling into that pit of acid, don't destroy all his hard earned gear.  
Oma, how do you fall into a pit trap if not during your turn? You can only walk into a trap if you are taking a move action, even if you are not in combat as soon as the trap springs it should be played out in rounds. 

You fall into a pit of acid, and that ends your turn, as this is technically the suprise round you can only take one action (that was the one that you took to walk into a trap). Then on the next round everyone acts normaly and you can one that wound take your move actions to try and get out, and you take damage again.
  
And while a Warrior could survive one round, "could" being like 50% chance, he is less likely to survive the second round, and since we are talking about the damage to the magic items, we assume the rogue (and not the red guy) failed his saving throw.

So yes, expect 2 or 3 rounds of damage from such a trap, and with the character death the question of magic items surviving is moot.

But that is niether here nor there, we are refering to how much damage the items take.


It is my advice, as noted already, that you DO NOT apply damage to the characters magic items, because to me this changes the CR of the trap, as a general rule we don't apply damage to a character's items unless the items are specifically targeted.

For example, when you are in combat and take damage, you notice that your armor isn't being destroyed? even when wearing full plate? After the fight you aren't repairing the dents and holes in it are you? and what about your sword, in real life swords break when you slam them repeatedly against someones armor and shield. But we gloss over that in most game systems because it isn't what we are there for.

Again, if you want realism, then step outside of round per round combat and veiw it as chemical reactions. The human body is 60% water and will react badly in acid. Objects are generally more solid and not mostly water, and as such tend to be less reactive to acids, so the DM is free to allow a couple of rounds without items taking damage. That is my suggestion anyways.

If you want prolonged contact with acids, particularly a powerful acid, then I am saying go ahead and destroy the items, even powerful, epic magic items aren't artifacts. 

Just be fair about it, if the player does manage to survive falling into that pit of acid, don't destroy all his hard earned gear.  

very easy because under the rules this game only come under turn based when an event need it, not always

then, a round are of 6 second in time and under the rules each event ocurre in her same initiative count in the next round if apply (like ongoing damage).

then you fall under the pit the clock start (turn) and you have full 6 seconds to scape making a move action to swim and your stardard as move to climb and escape.

the if some player are touching a wall and are behind touching it this wall become indestructible??? unless you use disintegrate and no medder if you use a lot of Maximised Acid Ball (fireball of acid)

And i don't want realist only that the rules say that the item are defended only from magic and powers but not from natural things like lava and acid

then like a mage with mordenkainen disjunction a druid can try to use Transmute Rock to Lava to destroy items.

and this are trap maybe CR 10 with a single activation but unlike the acid with a DC 14 this have DC23

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
You know something, if I think about it there is almost no way you could ever immerse yourself into a pool of non-magical acid that you get out of in less then six seconds.  If mean that acid is just going to eat whatever containment vessal is holding it in almost no time flat.  Those edges definitely should be subjected to that 10d6 acid damage and that is enough to eat through normal Adamantine very quickly.  With a stone enclosure that pit should be growing by about 2 inches every round and certainly more then a foot a minute.  Molten Lava takes more then twice as long to cut the same path.
You know something, if I think about it there is almost no way you could ever immerse yourself into a pool of non-magical acid that you get out of in less then six seconds.  If mean that acid is just going to eat whatever containment vessal is holding it in almost no time flat.  Those edges definitely should be subjected to that 10d6 acid damage and that is enough to eat through normal Adamantine very quickly.  With a stone enclosure that pit should be growing by about 2 inches every round and certainly more then a foot a minute.  Molten Lava takes more then twice as long to cut the same path.

but in this fantasy world a hero don't die easy where a monk can destroy adamantine with a single punch like survive to a pit of acid and if the player go out of the pit maybe he only take the damage but if he survive many turns maybe as DM you need to say that the player have many burns
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Well assuming the acid is contained in a Acid proof pit, it is a pit trap that you fall into, and you would have to make a climb check to get out of. It is also a trap door that covers a 5' square so I imagine there is a 5  to 10 foot fall from the top to the pit, with smooth sides. (really why would anyone build a pit that you can just jump out of.

The reflex save on such traps is to grab the ledge to prevent yourself from falling into the pit 

Oma, no, not everything is in turns, you only use turns when you need to. This however is one of the cases where you need to use turns. The acid does 10d6 damage per Round and therefore how many rounds they are in the acid is important.  

What happens if the Fighter in full plate fails his swim check? (with a 16 Amor Check penelty and no skill ranks in Swim he will fail) If he is scouting 80 feet ahead of the party it will take 1 round for them to run up and help pull him to safety. Round 1 he falls in and fails his swim check, round 2 the part runs up, round 3 they pull him to safety. That is 3 rounds and since he can't swim they will have to take damage to rescue him.

Or the Rogue who rolled a 1 on search and who fails the reflex save? Oh you rolled 43amage and he had 27 hp? He is dead. 2 rounds later the party catches up and....

Oma, I am pretty sure the items won't last long in this kind of acid, my issue is entirely balance. I won't face the level 5 group off against an ancient Red dragon either. 

What I am saying is that given the severity of the trap, I wouldn't apply damage to both the character and his items at the same time. If they were fortunate enough to survive this trap at all I wouldn't destroy their gear. If they died then it's moot and their gear would be destroyed as well.

Note the CR difference between this acid pit trap and a Lightning bolt trap. Both with average damage of 35.

To kill a character the lightning bolt has to do an additional 9 hp damage above their HPs, so a character with 26 or higher hp won't likely die from average damage. In the acid pit being reduced below 0 means you aren't going to be able to escape the pit ands will die the next round.

A swim check and climb check will be needed and most characters with that many hit points will be wearing heavy armor at that level, with double the penalty to swim checks it is unlikely that they will easily get out in just 1 round. I am just recommending 2 or 3 rounds grace on their magic items
Well assuming the acid is contained in a Acid proof pit, it is a pit trap that you fall into, and you would have to make a climb check to get out of. It is also a trap door that covers a 5' square so I imagine there is a 5  to 10 foot fall from the top to the pit, with smooth sides. (really why would anyone build a pit that you can just jump out of.

The reflex save on such traps is to grab the ledge to prevent yourself from falling into the pit 

Oma, no, not everything is in turns, you only use turns when you need to. This however is one of the cases where you need to use turns. The acid does 10d6 damage per Round and therefore how many rounds they are in the acid is important.  

What happens if the Fighter in full plate fails his swim check? (with a 16 Amor Check penelty and no skill ranks in Swim he will fail) If he is scouting 80 feet ahead of the party it will take 1 round for them to run up and help pull him to safety. Round 1 he falls in and fails his swim check, round 2 the part runs up, round 3 they pull him to safety. That is 3 rounds and since he can't swim they will have to take damage to rescue him.

Or the Rogue who rolled a 1 on search and who fails the reflex save? Oh you rolled 43amage and he had 27 hp? He is dead. 2 rounds later the party catches up and....

Oma, I am pretty sure the items won't last long in this kind of acid, my issue is entirely balance. I won't face the level 5 group off against an ancient Red dragon either. 

What I am saying is that given the severity of the trap, I wouldn't apply damage to both the character and his items at the same time. If they were fortunate enough to survive this trap at all I wouldn't destroy their gear. If they died then it's moot and their gear would be destroyed as well.

Note the CR difference between this acid pit trap and a Lightning bolt trap. Both with average damage of 35.

To kill a character the lightning bolt has to do an additional 9 hp damage above their HPs, so a character with 26 or higher hp won't likely die from average damage. In the acid pit being reduced below 0 means you aren't going to be able to escape the pit ands will die the next round.

A swim check and climb check will be needed and most characters with that many hit points will be wearing heavy armor at that level, with double the penalty to swim checks it is unlikely that they will easily get out in just 1 round. I am just recommending 2 or 3 rounds grace on their magic items

this is a pit of 5X5 fts and 10 fts of depth (if not the CR will increase) and again deal 10d 6 each 6 seconds if you as creature fall and go out in 6 seconds(your turn) you only take damage 1 time

1- a mage can see him and cast reagrup Lv 3 spell

2- a rouge level 8 will have +11  again a DC of 14 to her search then this is a very easy task for him if hi fail a very easy task then what you like to do??? and maybe i roll only 18 damages and he survive if overcome 2 DCs 10 (swim and climb)

3- you as DM whats going to do if your party lv 1 like to try to kill a king, or a dragon, or other NPC that you know that will kill they??? if he like the DM can't do nothing, That'll teach them to don't mess with monsters with more than 4 Hds that they (sense motive)

4- the DCs (swim,climb,search,disable) are easy and in some case the CR is reduced and a magical trap don't increase her CR like a mechanical trap a lightingbolt of 10d6 is CR 8 and have a DC of 14 but her search and disable divice are DC 28 (a hard task) and affect many targets (line) but don't have ongoing damage.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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