LoC - PostMortem

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Well, Postmortem is probably a strong word, as I would like to try and create some sort of semi-resolution to the whole thing instead of letting it die.

Anyways, I think this worked pretty well, all things considering.  It wasn't the thunderous return to huge crowds of Gods that I had secretly hoped for, but... well, I think simply put the reason for that is that there just arent' that many people on the forums nowadays, and you can have crowds of Gods if you don't even have crowds of people on the forums.  As the next DnD starts to pick up steam, we should see more people returning.  Alternately, we could try and go to another forum that doesn't have this problem.  The Giant in the Playground forums might be a reasonable option... they have their own breed of LoC game over there... different from ours, but... they do seem to have plenty of players.


Okay, that major issue aside, what worked, what didn't.

Worked:

Early PP system:  I greatly enjoyed the PP system at the begining... mostly because it gave me just enough constraints that it made me think about who my character was and what it wanted.  As such, my God is one of my favorite ones, I think because of the constraints placed on it at the start.

Story recap as part of the thread:  While it was sometimes hard to keep up, I thought it was a nice record to have there in the thread.

PP entry form:  Made my job a LOT easier.

Combat:  I liked the suggested effects of winning and losing we came up with

Feel:  I liked the feel of this game a lot.  It seemed to have a nice flow to it, until people started leaving.

New Players:  Great group of new people this time around!  Just don't leave (or leave for long)!



Didn't Work:

Late PP system:  As much as I loved the early PP system, eventually it got out of hand... too much PP, too much specialization.  If we keep the system in the future, I would propose that instead of just piling on PP at the later stages, instead we have increasing levels allow you to be more and more generalized... a certain degree of specialization at the start, followed by, not more PP but a conversion of specialized PP to general PP

Civilizations and resources and etc.  I think it got too confusing and too... war strategy game.  While I understand the idea that nourishes and harms don't do things in the long run in real life... in the game, it just kinda... stagnated... things.

Time went too fast:  When mortals die in a week or two's time, it kinda puts a damper on storytelling  Again, I understand the reasoning, but I feel it sacrifices Lore for... More Events.

Old players slacking off and not posting enough (myself included):  Boo us! :D

Lack of Elder God:  This is the one I'm saddest about, honestly.  Camu's role was going to be to inject some spontenaity and randomness into the game, and keep it interesting.  As such, we modified the rules somewhat to accomadate his existence... which then never... materialized.  Would have been interesting to see what might have become of that.



For all my whining, I really liked this LoC.  Good people, good stories, good times.  Its just, as usual... what do we want to do differently next time?
 
I agree more with your hits than your misses. I don't believe an Elder God should have to drive a good system of play in a forum game. The rules should be simple, but inviting. That's why the removal of restrictions on PP spending vs pp rewards strikes me as a winning idea. You know how I feel about civs and the overarching strategy game aspect of being a god, however I agree that time passed too quickly, which truncated a few of my god's rp (still satisfied with his character though). Perhaps if the gods Power was restricted to influencing individual avatars/heroes instead of large scale civs? I like the idea of clashing civilizations as a story driving element, but the gods shouldn't have communal control of that.
Oh, I didn't mean that I feel that we *NEED* an Elder God... its just that we put together the rules assuming it, and it didn't happen.

Have you seen our brief attempt at doing a smaller-scale LoC?

community.wizards.com/lordsofcreation/go...

and

docs.google.com/document/d/1bw6RZEDZoupf...

I've been toying with the idea of doing something like that again.  It was definitely more small-scale, and even if we don't do a City-based LoC, I'd be down for talking about limiting God influences to individuals.

Huh.  No interest, eh?  Very well  
Well, I do have an idea that you guys could test out.

Those who were elder gods or had the highest score in previous LoCs should be the gods of an entire people. Those who are newer are gods of a city, or gods of a distric. The newest people (such as I) could even be personal gods, motivating and manipulating their followers in the rise to power.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

God continuity...

Now thats... an idea we never though about before.  I kinda like it :D

My concern would be that people would get bored playing gods they had played before, or the god wouldn't make sense in the new game-space, but assuming we can hand-wave away some of those issues, its not like we haven't had cross-game events before

Regardless of the continuity idea, the idea of tiers and levels is... intruiging to me.  We tried to do that in some manner with this latest game, with god 'ranks' that were actually named and not just... a number.  I wouldn't mind exploring that idea and making it more... defined, not at all.

  
Well, give those players a chance to alter their gods to fit the world they are in, and it will smooth over nicely.

Still doing a Goddess of Lust.
THAT will be a religion that gets popular quickly

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Probably another silly question, but what are we using to map out the world and it's various locations, are we using some kind of map software or is it all just in our heads?
I've had a copy of Campaign Cartographer 3 that I've been using to make maps, but I've always hoped to find some way to make them in a more... collaborative... way, mostly because making those maps often takes the longest time when getting ready for resets, so if I'm running behind, that is what gets dropped first.  If we could find a means for everyone to add their own stuff to the map, things would be much simpler for everyone, I think.


I'm not sure what I'll do next, God-wise.  I'm thinking something a little more... personal.  Maybe I'll champion a race or set of races or something. 
Okay Dokey. I apologize for all these questions but I'm trying to get all of them out of the way before the game starts rather then during.
Alas, I have another question, about flavouring creations.
Is creating something and giving it lore part of the same action therefore all using one spendage of PP or two different actions therefore spending PP twice.

I plan to play a god of cold, so lets say for example I wish to create a race of Ice Giants who live in cities carved out of glaciers. I'm assuming that creating these glaciers, creating the race, and then driving the race to carve cities out of these glaciers is each its own action and each action would cost PP.
But let's say I want to give this race of Ice Giants their own unique culture and racial traits. I love writing backstories and lores, so I could go on for pages about the traditions, habitats, culture, morals and so on about these ice giants.
Would all of this racial lore come under the act of creating the race, or after creating the race would I be required to spend further actions to "Culturize" this race?
Oh, I have no problem answering questions, now or mid-game.

You are correct that the glaciers, the race, and the action of making the city are each separate PP expenditures.


Racial lore is... well, sort of left to the player.  Obviously, if your racial lore is 'on the fifth day of the third month, we celebrate our resounding victory over the accursed fire demons' then... there should probably be some fire demons, and you probably should have had a resounding victory over them at some point.  Both of these would be PP actions.

If your racial lore is just a conception of how they act and sort of the fundamental ethos of the people as a whole, then thats usually fine to just start talking about it without spending PP.  I had a race of Naga a few games back that basically were some combination of Pharonic and Aiel in nature, a race that worshiped a water god in the middle of a desert.  Eventually I hashed out a lot of their culture and art, but I didn't spend a ton of PP doing so.  Let me post the relevant PP expenditures that I spent on them at their beginning...  (note that the costs and actions might look odd... different rules)

Tsiyoti 2/1/2011 Shape Populace 4 Nagas in the Sea of Daj
Tsiyoti 2/18/2011 Forge Artifact 3 The Rock of Laments in Niganati  (The name of the valley in which the Naga were created)
Tsiyoti 2/20/2011 Nourish Populace 1 The Naga grow in number Niganati
Tsiyoti 2/23/2011 Mold Land 2  The Naga carve into the rock of the Sea of Daj, forming a vast underground cave network to live in
Tsiyoti 3/4/2011 Craft Artifact 3 The Stone of Rejoicing in Niganati

Tsiyoti 3/8/2011 Command Populace 1 THe fallen attack Niganati
Tsiyoti 3/10/2011 Command Populace 1 The Naga build a temple on the ground they were born
Tsiyoti 3/10/2011 Forge Artifact 3 Orb of Order

And... more from there, but that is what I used to start up the culture, which was an oracular/mystical peoples who worshiped a God who didn't even know that they existed.  Eventually the civilization formed an alliance with another nation, religions spread, a massive siege of half-men occured and the entire city fractured into four or five warring components who each claimed a portion of the now huge underground cave network that stretched through half the desert, but the underlying culture was there without me explicitly spending PP to make it so.

That said, if you *want* to spend PP on things like a culture, by all means go ahead.  What that usually means is that its significantly harder for someone else to change that culture, and easier for other people who (shamefully) have not been paying as close of attention to your posts to get a quick sense of what matters to your people.  If you want to make your people *exceptionally* one way... like 'the most law-abiding of all law-abiding places' then... thats something to spend PP on.

Basically:  If it involves another race, a historic event, a particularly extreme stance, a particularly impressive location or a group within the group (like I eventually made a group of monks to interpret the Stones of Niganati), then PP should be spent.  Otherwise, spend if you want to, but no rules saying you have to.





I think we should all have a meeting and talk about the future of LoC and just catch up/ get to know one another.  

I've created a Doodle poll to see when people are availible the next few weeks.  Hope to see everyone there!

www.doodle.com/2vb9x8iimis4k29f 
Been mainly inactive recently but looked at the doodle thing and the dates seem to be Friday the 21st and Sunday the 23rd, is this when the next LoC starts or an arranged time to chat about it in the mibbir chatroom?
Well, I'm going to just be hanging out in the chat for the next few days, but we're going to try to actually interact tomorrow and saturday evenings, for whomever is availible.

And no, this isn't the start of a new game  Trust me, you'll know when we start planning for that again! 
Our first meeting was a success!  Thank you to everyone who showed up.

We have an important announcement.  We are going to be starting up a new LoC near the start of the new year!  Please come on Saturday to the mibbit chat to discuss the proposed rules and talk to one another about your plans!

 
Apologies for missing these chats but my internet has been having issues recently, I can only hope it doesn't do this in game.
No worries.  I think we're going to have more of these after the game starts... they're good for comraderie
Been having the same issues on my end.
And I am kind of everywhere at the moment.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Topheh ( Or another admin who happen's to be floating around_ would you mind If I send you a PM to discuss some ideas I was having about what I can do in-game. I trust you not to meta-game knowing what I may do, and the main thing is I need out how long certain actions are going to take, as with the plans I have right now I'm worried i could spend the entire game doing these things before I even get a chance to interact with another god. XD

Sure.  

Although I'll warn you... the other gods *will* find you, and no plan ever ends up working... exactly as planned :D 
As mentioned in the message, I'm pretty sure the gods will find me.
My first, defining actions in the world aren't exactly very subtle
I know I will need to play it subtle.
Just weave the threadds, and play it smooth.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

well......to start things off:

Topheh, when has continuity in our games have Ever been followed/an issue/ whatever! Tongue Out from whatI have seen in a few games, the only real continuity is the people posting and keeping the same name! Change is the very essence of this game!

For James: "The best laid plans are the ones not planned" With that thought in mind, nothing in this game is ever what it seems. Which is why I love playing it, cause its always changing and I never know what is going to happen next!

I once played a benevolent god of peace, that went on a (how long was it Toph?) a hundred? or thousand? year chase and fight with Toph's god (they also happen to be father and son) that wound up with the destruction of thousands of miles of land, and the complete corruption of my god! it was awesome! and completely unplanned also.

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I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

I understand that I may not be able to pull everything off the way I want, which is why i was asking for estimates on my chances. I may be a little disappointed if I can't do my main things but I'll probably still enjoy the game.


 


Probably would be disappointed if everything went exactly to plan anyway.

I will say this: 50/50 and 90

you will most likely do all that you'd want, but you have a 50/50 shot at it happening the way you want!

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I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

Joran, I COMPLETELY forgot about that.  Thats my favorite part of the game too, the completely unpredictable nature of things when someone else shows up and starts messing around with your things :D    Hmm.  Maybe one of these days we should do something smaller scale... operatives in a secret society (that... isn't quite sure what its being so secret about, at least at the beginning) that are backstabbing and working with one another to get things done



And Joran is right.  Odds that you can get what you want done done... very high.  Odds that they're going to *stay* the way you want... well, thats far less likely :D
Oh, and I'm back from my vacation now, so lets get this thing started!
Lets get this thing started....When exactly? :D
:D  Beats me!

Trying to catch Shadow on Mibbit, as he's going to take over the main admin role for this one.  Hopefully I'll catch him soon, as I'm full of ideas all of a sudden.

 
as soon as we get the details worked out and people coming around a little more, or at least people that are actively working on the rules (shadow!!) we can get rolling!

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I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

What are we aiming for as a minimum number of players?

Assuming we've got myself, GinandGrray, Topheh and Joran we have four already.
As many as possible, of course, but four (dedicated) posters is more than enough.  We'll probably end up with 15 or so, I hope, but we're not going to wait for anything close to that number to start.  


Joran suggests Lords of Creation: Chaos Within as the title.   Sounds fine by me...
It was Chaos Within, but close enough

Edit:  I have no idea what you're talking about, Joran.  I certainly didn't just correct it or anything...  ~Toph

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I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

Well, if we can't find Shadow by Monday, we'll at least put up a recruitment thread... I have his latest rules draft here, and knowing his preferences, I think I could finish it, if needed.
It was Chaos Within, but close enough

Edit:  I have no idea what you're talking about, Joran.  I certainly didn't just correct it or anything...  ~Toph



I didn't see a thing! :P

Well, if we can't find Shadow by Monday, we'll at least put up a recruitment thread... I have his latest rules draft here, and knowing his preferences, I think I could finish it, if needed.



I'll try to get on chat if you need any help hashing things out. No guarantees though.

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I am Red/Black
I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

No shadow, I guess.  Joran, you don't happen to want to admin this one this time around, do you :P


Anyways, lets hash out the final bits of the rules tonight and tomorrow and get stuff started.


I'm still looking for ways to advertise our game beyond the WotC forum.  Unfortunately most of what I've been finding are things for entire RPG forums to advertise with one another, which... well, we can't do, as we can't exactly get these boards to advertise for other people :D  Ideas are still welcome. 
Lords of Creation: Chaos Within

Gods use Action Points (AP) to influence the world. Every week of real time, each player gains a number of AP proportionate to his god's power and level of influence; gods with many great works and armies of worshippers will gain AP faster, as will those who conduct great roleplaying and help influence the world. Your weekly AP starts at 4, and-if you've been playing well-can be as high as 9. AP is assigned by the game's admins.


You can spend AP to conduct various actions. Some example divine actions, and their corresponding AP costs, are as follows:


Command - Command is used to issue divine orders. This can be as simple as ordering a hill to form to the creation of a volcanic mountain range. Or it could be used to order your worshippers to war against another faction or to teach people how to perform special actions. The exact potencty of ther action is determined by the amount of AP that is spend. Examples are shown below. 
Command Land (1 AP): Glykllivar smote her spear into the ocean floor, causing a volcano to erupt from the spot. The lava flowed and the hardened, creating an island.
Command Populace (1 AP): The Sage appeared to the elven shamans in their dreams, teaching them the making of certain artifacts. When they awoke, they began scribing their magic on parchment, to make spellbooks and scrolls; the first Wizards had appeared.
Command Land (2 AP): Kur-ah strode along the center of the world, magma dripping from his body. Where it hardened, mountains formed, creating a new chain of hills and cliffs going across the continent.
Command Populace (2 AP): Morintu sent his exarch to preach to the primitive humans. Soon, these people were worshippers of Morintu, and sent armies to the nearby elven lands to conquer them in his name.
Command Land (3 AP): Kyrinian stole a handful of fire from Kur-ah's volcano, throwing it into the sky to create the sun.

Populate/Depopulate - Populate is used to create life of all kinds in the world. 
Populate Birds (1AP): Mariana lifted a handful of sand and threw it into the air. From the cascade, birds of many hues and types flew forth into thhe world.
Populate Pegasus (2 AP): From her divine realm, Artheyan looked down upon the wild horses that dwelt in her green fields. She raised her hand skyward, and several of the horses darted upward, using their new, feathery wings to fly.
Populate Populace (3 AP): When Britmara bathed herself in the cool lake, her power and wisdom took form amid the water. When she left the pool, so too did a newborn race; the werewolves.

Depopulate is an action that is rarely appropriate, and represents the complete genocide of a species, and is often not possible until all nourishes and other benefits have been stripped from that group.  Please confer with the admins if you wish to use this action. 


Nourish/Harm - Used to help/hurt things.  
Nourish Land (1 AP): Wherever Artheyan's tears of grief fell upon the land, grasses and shrubs sprang up, bringing new life to this formerly barren land.
Nourish Populace (1 AP): The prayers of the villagers were answered that year; their newly planted fields flourished beyond measure. Their population and wealth began to increase, allowing them to expand northward and colonize new lands.
Harm Land (1 AP):  Pollux cried out, and the forest withered and burned under his fiery gaze
Harm Populace (1 AP):  The rampaging armies of lizardmen torched the fields of the halflings, and famine fell upon them.

Create/Destroy
Create Artifact (1AP): Tzu handed the warrior a silver spear, a relic that would be passed down for generations.
Create Plane (2 AP): Ooulzoth took one of his aberrant beasts and made it grow to a colossal size. The creature was now big enough to house entire armies within its body, and Ooulzoth built his palace within its stomach.
Create Domain (3 AP): Lexius drew a complex diagram across the map, using preexisting landmarks like islands and rivers as part of his immense sigil. As he completed the diagram, power pulsed through the bones of the world, and arcane magic was unleashed freely for anyone to use.
Create Exarch (3 AP): Morintu took the mortal Icoscol into the sky, and allowed him to overlook the mortal world from above. "This can all be yours, someday."
Create Artifact (3 AP): Kakavindus sat down in his dark palace, and began creating an ebony mask. He poured all of his cunning, malice, and lust for power into the artifact, imbuing it with terrible powers. This artifact could be used by gods and mortals alike to achieve awful things.
Create Plane (4 AP): Elyndra left this world into the void beyond, tapping into the basest part of her essence to create a realm for those who shared her ways, the Feywild
Create Avatar (4 AP): There was a flash of eldritch lightning, and a silvery, iridescent figure walked the mortal world.

Destroy costs are typically the same as create costs, but may require additional actions in preparation.  For instance, destroying an untended artifact is simple, but destroying an artifact which is currently in the posession of another God may require additional actions, either RP or via AP (such as defeating or tricking that God).  Destroying planes and avatars will always require additional thought and preparation.  Feel free to confer with the admins regarding your plans and they will give you advice on how to proceed.  

Claim Domain - Allows Gods to increase their portfolio of domains (see below for examples)

Ascend God (2 AP) -  A 2 AP action which brings a new player into the game (See below) 


Whenever you spend AP, you must be very specific about what you are doing. Artifacts must have their powers listed, races must have an origin point, etc. Also, you can't hoard AP; every week, you lose any leftover APs you have and start anew. Also, keep in mind that you can share AP with another god for a big, joint project; creating a plane is much easier when each god only spends 2 AP, as long as the two are willing to share their creation.

Sometimes, gods will fight. This is okay and not discouraged, but it should be something that is discussed with the god you plan to attack, and if possible deciding the outcome ahead of time in the OOC or by other means. Attacking another god costs 1 AP. Note that you may NOT kill another player's god unless that player gives you his or her permission OOC beforehand. If you defeat a god whose player isn't willing to give him up, than that god is subdued without being killed. In the case where both gods have committed to fighting but neither side is willing to lose, consult the admins and the victor will be determined by the power of the gods involved, any combat related artifacts they might possess, and other circumstances involved (such as a 'home base' advantage.)

Starting Gods

Starting Gods begin with 7 AP their first week, which drops to the usual 4 AP/week at the first reset.  Starting Gods are also given 3 AP before their creation to choose their starting domains (the  spheres of influence your God is patron of) with.  You may choose one greater domain, one moderate and one lesser domain, or three lesser domains.

Example Greater domains:  Life, Knowledge, Time
Example Moderate domains: Nature, Language, Seasons
Example Lesser domains: Dryads, Education, Springtime

A larger (but by no means exaustive) list of domains may be found here: Domains

To express interest in the game, please fill out and post the following in the OOC thread.  An admin will contact you and let you know if everything checks out, at which point you will be ready to play once you have been ascended (or, in some cases, allowed to self-ascend).


Name:


Greater Domains:


Moderate Domains:


Lesser Domains:


Physical Appearance:


Divine Symbol:


 
Tips for new gods for new players:


  • make sure that what you make makes sense, not only to you, but also to others that will interact with you.

  • make it fun! remember: You are a god! take it and run! Not only that, but also, you will be playing this god for some time. Make sure it is some thing that you are going to want to play just like any other character.

  • don't get discouraged if some one messes with something you did. this is an interactive game where we are trying to build something. instead get creative!

  • conflict is not only great, but makes for great rp! open hostility is not great though. We are all adults here (mostly) lets try to act like it. I highly encourage conflict, it makes for some fun times, I don't encourage actively arguing/flaming/singling some one out though. it brings down the whole game for everyone and makes for bad gaming.

  • Build! Anything! Everything! Whatever! you get AP every week! use it! have fun with it! AP represents your power: the more you use it the stronger you become!

  • As I said before: Get creative! this is a game where the sky is not only not the limit, but the stars, the moon(s), and everything you can think of including the sun can be messed with!

  • Fluff has more power in this game than AP does and is free. The more of it the better the outcomes.

  • Write lots! Write little. But just write. A god that doesn't write just sits there. Don't just sit there! You have a world to build!



  • Interact with others. If no one is interacting with you, go interact with them. If they ignore you, then do something small. If they persist to ignore you then do some thing grand! You will get someone's attention!



On a final note, please post as often as possible or as makes sense. If you are waiting on someone to reply, try sending them a note or posting in the OOC, but if they dont reply after a period of reasonable time, then move on. Keep on posting and have fun with out them!

And if it all possible, if you enjoy the game let people know, and if you know some one that might, bring them on by and try to recruit them in! There is No limit to how many players we can have. The more the better!

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I am Red/Black
I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

Questions: Do we have an OOC yet? And would cake and/or tea be considered moderate or lesser domains?

and I forgot some thing in that last post:

People if you have any questions, dont forget to ask! we can't answer your question if you dont ask it. And if we need to get admin level approval for something really off the wall, well then ask an admin.

And Have Fun!

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IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isred.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

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I am Red/Black
I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.

No OOC yet.  And... err... those would be lesser, unless you want to make 'Cake' a defining cornerstone of the universe, in which case... greater(?)
I seem to have a greater grasp on the rules this time, the examples certainly helped.

Looking through the wiki, assuming Ice = Cold then I have control of a greater domain correct?

Also, any plans to write up the events of this game on that wiki? I'd love to see the story told on there and would even help with writing some of it up if wanted.