Changes? We don't need no stinkin' changes! I'm tired of this crap, and other rants...

First of all, this isn't really a rant, as in a venting session; I'm genuinely looking for a solid answer to the following question: why doesn't WotC shelf D&DN and instead actively support all editions of D&D (1e-4e)? This satisfies everyone from the OSR guys to the 4e fanboys. There are fans of each of the editions. Just leave them be and give us what I think we all want anyway: great, high-quality supplemental material. But instead, WotC is trying to make an end-all-be-all edition of the game...or, as a member from one of my gaming groups said last week, "D&DN is a game designer's version of Sauron's Ring."

Personally, I'm beginning to see too many changes to the core game (expertise die, maneuvers, a narrowing of the skills list, divorcing skills from ability scores, etc.) and too much compromise (with the 1e commoner-turned-adventurer on one hand and the superheroes of 4e on the other). After playing mulitple sessions of D&DN and most-recently thumbing through the last playtest packet, I've seen enough to safetly say that WotC isn't as focused on making the "ideal" D&D game as much as they are inventing an entirely new one. My original hope and excitement has faded.

So, never one to criticize without offering some solutions -- however simple and unoriginal they may be -- I'll end where I began: why doesn't WotC simply actively support all the iterations of the game to-date (excluding 3e, of course, supplanting it with 3.5e)?

Thoughts? Answers? Rallying cries? Recipes for good pecan pie?
Since I don't think WotC is inclined to do any of the things you've listed, and I don't necessarily agree with any of your points, I'll instead do as you have asked and post a wonderful pecan pie recipe:

Southern Pecan Pie 

Ingredients:



  • 1 cup light corn syrup

  • 1 cup brown sugar

  • 1/4 teaspoon salt

  • 1/3 cup melted butter

  • 1 teaspoon vanilla

  • 3 large eggs, slightly beaten

  • 1 heaping cup pecan halves

  • 1 pie shell, unbaked, 9-inch


Preparation:


In a large bowl, combine corn syrup, brown sugar, salt, butter, and vanilla; mix well. Add slightly beaten eggs and blend well; stir in pecans. Pour into the unbaked pie shell. Bake in a preheated 350° oven for 45 minutes, or until set. Cool pecan pie and serve with a dollop of whipped cream or vanilla ice cream.
Y'know, I didn't care for pecan pie when I was younger, but recently I find I've grown a taste for it.  A significant taste for it.  Like, I want one, right now.

Hocus, is that recipe something you've tried (as opposed to found with a search)?  Any good?
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)

Well, I would imagine that supporting all editions would way too much work and hassle for them to handle. AFAIK, there aren't that many people working on D&D. Mind you, I wasn't playing during the days of 2e and 3.Xe, but what I've been told is that one problem was that there was too much content, sometimes unchecked or even playtested. From that point of view, it would make sense for the team working on D&D to support a single edition and do it well. I know history may tell us they haven't a great job of it, but I would not like to think of what it would be like of they had to support four.


I'm afraid I can't get you a satisfactory answer to your question, but the main reason why I'm replying is this little part:


I've seen enough to safetly say that WotC isn't as focused on making the "ideal" D&D game as much as they are inventing an entirely new one.


That's more or less what I've been hoping for ever since DDN was announced. I never really bought into the "You can play your 1e-style PC with a 4e-style PC in a 3e-style game." Not gonna happen. I am, however, for a "Best of" kind of game, where they take bits and pieces of every edition and use the lessons they've learned over the years to make a game that can please fans of all editions, while being its own thing. I suppose that's why I'm happy with what we've got so far. Quite frankly, if WotC would just come out and say that they're dropping that original design goal altogther and state that they want to make something new, I'd high-five them, or something. Not too sure how to convey what I mean... :/

Eh, I don't particularly like any of the editions. By the time I played through 3/3.5 and 4e to epic levels I was pretty much done with the games. I only play 4e now to kill time until a better version comes along. 

When I was playing 3.5 we reached epic levels and played for a year. After, although we had fun, we modified the rules and classes so heavily that it was a different game. Then, after a short period, we stopped playing D&D altogether and went to a system where one or two characters didn't rule the day. 

One game from low level to epic over two years is more than enough 4e for me. I'll probably never touch it again once this campaign ends. 

I want a new game or else I'll go to a different system. 
Y'know, I didn't care for pecan pie when I was younger, but recently I find I've grown a taste for it.  A significant taste for it.  Like, I want one, right now.

Hocus, is that recipe something you've tried (as opposed to found with a search)?  Any good?



Both, actually. I found it with a search, but I have tried it. Not as good as grandma's from back in the day, but still very nice...especially if you warm it up and melt a little butter over the top of it before eating.
Since I don't think WotC is inclined to do any of the things you've listed, and I don't necessarily agree with any of your points, I'll instead do as you have asked and post a wonderful pecan pie recipe:

Southern Pecan Pie




My wife WILL have this recipe!!

As for the OP, yea t hat would solve a LOT of problems but they won't do it. I'm not really sure why because one would think that printing a new edition would cost as much or more than a refined edition of 1e, 2e, AD&D, 3E-revised, and 4E/Essentials.

Personally, if they came out with the Core 3 4E books with the errata included I'd probably buy them again. I didn't do so with v3.5 because I have the SRD and that works fine for me.



But because they're NOT doing that, I'm holding out hope that the CORE game will be basic and easy and malleable so you can have 1e's Commoners to Heroes and I can have 4E's dhampir warlord at 1st level. I don't see it happening (for either), but it's a dream.
printing new material for all prior editions would be a mess. there's just not enough design space left in some of these old games to justify devoting any amount of resources to their development.

even 4e was beginning to suffer from bloat at the end of its development cycle, and it was only 3-4 years old.

on top of that, simply cranking out material for all editions wouldn't satisfy everyone because some people actually want something entirely new. i've played my fill of 4e and 3.5, and i have no real interest in 1e or 2e. i'm ready for a new game, and i'm sure i'm not alone.

also, for the 100th time, this is a playtest. there's no need to have such a fatalist attitude 3 packets into a 2 year process.
printing new material for all prior editions would be a mess.

Would it?
All that changes is four statblocks intead of one.

They won't do it because they have it stuck in their minds that they will be competing with themselves....a notion I find very silly. If you're producing 4 products instead of 1, and all 4 are selling, then what's the issue? If it turns out that 1 or 2 different editions start selling significantly bettert than the others, then they can cut back on the weaker-selling ones and invest more in the better-selling ones. Also, they think that financially supporting several editions' worth of books at once would be ruinous. This is entirely possible.
printing new material for all prior editions would be a mess.

Would it?
All that changes is four statblocks intead of one.




the current design team for d&d could never manage 4 editions at the same time. they have a hard enough time pleasing fans of whatever edition they're currently working on.

beyond the logistical aspects, do people really want WotC to do work under 1e's hood?  
Actually, in order for WotC to cover what they want (making a modular game to bend the playstyle to the diferent style of diferent editions) would require as much effort and content being developed as supporting 3 diferent editions...The playstyle of the 3 main editions are so diferent, that the module content would be most likely incompatible between them...so you need to make a version of x content for each playstyle that contradict each other...
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I'm fine with them making a new game altogether, but then it's not D&D


This, I never understood. 1e didn't stop "being D&D" when 2e came around. And 3e was D&D, despite it being much different when compared to 2e, let alone Basic. D&D isn't solely about mechanics, or lore, or settings. The way I see it, they all have heroic fantasy as a common theme. They have different ways of going about it, but they largely accomplish the same goal, or theme.


D&D by any other edition would be about heroic fantasy.


It's like my friend who refuses to play any Mario Kart game that came out after the N64 version. The one time I got him to, all he did was complain about how it wasn't Mario Kart 64. In the end, all Mario Kart games are about goofy kart racing, but he's too focused that version's mechanics to enjoy the great game we have now (MK7 is the best one to date, IMO).


But heck, I suppose it's just a matter of opinion.

I don't see what the issue is with calling it D&D. If they don't then D&D dies in the current gaming markets.  If it's called something else I don't really care but it's using elements used throughout D&D, which I like and want kept in the fantasy adventure game I prefer to play.

If the old editions start to be modified the same issues will happen, people will be upset with changes. WotC probably looked at D&D and saw the brand bleeding customers told the devs to do something and now they are. 
First off, have you guys ever tried chocolate pecan pie? To die for.

Secondly, I think they run the risk of people just buying the updated rules book/conversion book, and just use all their content they already own. I know that's what I immediately thought when I read the OPs post.
My two copper.
printing new material for all prior editions would be a mess.

Would it?
All that changes is four statblocks intead of one.




Not really.  The editions have very different design philosophies, and more than that, different ideas of what a PC can and cannot handle.


For example, say you have a 3rd-level adventure.  In 4E, you place fifteen (third-level) goblins in a cave.  Twelve of them are minions.  This is an ordinary encounter that the PCs should take without too much trouble.  The feel of the fight is that you walked into a crowded goblin warren and had to take on all of them.

In 2E, fifteen goblins for four 3rd-level characters is almost a guaranteed TPK.  The same is true in 3E.  Are you going to just cut it down to four goblins?  Now you're not in a crowded warren, you've just met a patrol.


You'd have to basically redesign everything but the maps and the plot in order to support every edition.  It's possible, certainly; I've converted adventures between editions before.  But it's not as simple a thing as printing a different statblock for the goblins.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
printing new material for all prior editions would be a mess. there's just not enough design space left in some of these old games to justify devoting any amount of resources to their development.

even 4e was beginning to suffer from bloat at the end of its development cycle, and it was only 3-4 years old.



Yeah the problems with 3E/4E wasn't that they lack material, it was that they had fundamental rules issues that needed to be solved.

I do not need more 3E/4E splatbooks, there are already way too many as it is.

1) For those who are "tired of" a certain edition of D&D, I'd remind you that Mearls' analogy in a recent Q&A was drawn between D&D and Monopoly, stating that the latter hasn't changed in decades. His spoken goal in that Q&A was to create the final edition of D&D that, if copy of core rule books sat on a shelf for 10 years, wouldn't look any different from a contemporary printing. Mearls wanted to get away from having a game that changed every 5 years. If you're holding your breath, hoping that D&DN will solve your boredom with a previous and/or current iteration of the game, know that WotC's spokesman has said that he's positioning D&DN to be the last game WotC develops.


2) Economics. The books for all editions are already printed. There's no need to "develop" anything. Putting out new material can successfully be done online, like we're seeing with Dragon/Dungeon magazine pdfs. In supporting issues of the game, allow free markets to determine printing runs.

3) They've called 4 different variations of the game "Dungeons & Dragons." They're about to call a 5th the same thing. I agree with the contention that if they want to create a new mechanic, call it something else...like Numenera or something :-)

4) The idea of Hasbro purchasing Pathfinder is a great idea...especially since we all know it works better than 3.5e anyway [zing!]. 
First off, have you guys ever tried chocolate pecan pie? To die for.


I have not - it sounds amazing (but I'm a sucker for chocolate).

Secondly, I think they run the risk of people just buying the updated rules book/conversion book, and just use all their content they already own. I know that's what I immediately thought when I read the OPs post.


Most people - other than maybe some "core" group that just keeps buying - purchase less and less as the game goes on (at least nowadays).

After the same "initial (re-)release spike" in sales, I would really expect a larger (and faster) drop-off in sales with a support-every-game method.


(With print-on-demand and/or PDF sales, though, I don't know why they couldn't at least make the existing older material available.  I doubt it would "cut into sales" of 5e, given that nearly all of that material is available to players who might want it already.  [Either through download, or because they - or someone they know - already has it.])
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)

I don't really like any of the editions. I like things from all the editions, but I dislike much from all the editions as well. So, I would rather they keep working on DDN. So far, it is looking like it has potential. 

printing new material for all prior editions would be a mess.

Would it?
All that changes is four statblocks intead of one.

One is enough of a problem, especially for 3.5. Ask anyone higher up (and/or involved in layout) at Paizo. Statblocks are a major issue from a publishing standpoint, profoundly affecting things like what a realistic page count is.

I've said that from the start.

Set up a pre-3rd evolution team to unify the early editions and fix some of the major problems without sacrificing the style and feel at all.

Refine 4th, getting a 4.5 edition to apply what they've learned.

Use the money they save on NOT developing 5th (and what they're going to RAKE IN from selling old material again) to buy/merger with Paizo and turn 3.5/Pathfinder into a valid WotC property again.

Everyone totally wins.

They'll never do it.

I'd like this. D&D Classic (1E with elements of BECMI and 2E, ideally in a BECMI-like presentation), D&D Tactics (4E), just plain D&D or perhaps something like Dungeons & Dragons Presents: Pathfinder (3.x, preferably with some Next-like moves toward bounded accuracy). I don't think most products should be statted for more than one or maybe two of them, though. In particular, what makes for a good classic-edition adventure differs radically from what makes for a good 4E adventure.

For a while there Next was looking good enough to have a hope of supplanting at least one of these, but the latest playtest packet does not inspire confidence that WotC has a vision of its own or the ability to listen to feedback, either one would be fine but the rudderless mess that was announced on Monday is not and the above would almost surely be preferable to deriving a game from it.

They won't do it because they have it stuck in their minds that they will be competing with themselves....a notion I find very silly. If you're producing 4 products instead of 1, and all 4 are selling, then what's the issue? If it turns out that 1 or 2 different editions start selling significantly bettert than the others, then they can cut back on the weaker-selling ones and invest more in the better-selling ones. Also, they think that financially supporting several editions' worth of books at once would be ruinous. This is entirely possible.



To be fair, they did self-canibalize to a certain extent in the 2E years. Way too many settings with products that weren't of interest (or weren't percieved as being of interest, even when they could have been) to people who favoured any given setting. I do think three product lines is a manageable number (at one point 2E included something like six, with BECMI still being a nominal presence as well), and if some products were statted for two or three versions that could cut down considerably on the number of products with limited audiences. Setting-specific products would, I think, need to be edition-neutral if WotC adopted this model.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Alright, here I go putting my heart on my sleeve and preparing to get it peirced through with troll arrows. I personally do not need a new edition of D&D to be perfectly happy and content. I have my own favorite and would very likely not ever have strayed  from the system I have played for years. I came to Next out of curiousity. I signed up for the playtest completely unaware of the 3e./ 4e. edition wars. I do not play either system. I'll keep my reasons to myself as not to offend any reader.  So imagine my surprise when I personally got edition puked on by a poster for being old and out of touch with Modern game design. I began to witness constant edition warring behavior and elitism going on unchecked- Orcs seem to ignore more often than correct the problem. They can't catch it all I suppose.

I was actually told to go away and die with my old edition of the game. I was told gamers like me don't matter anymore and that I'll be dead in a few decades anyway. That's when I had a real WTF moment. Not being emotionally attached to Next or modern D&D I left the playtest. It was then that emails came flooding in about how much good I could do for the franchise if I stuck it out and advocated for balance. This happened from both older players as well as newer players. 


 Being a stubborn person I resisted but they ( emails) just kept coming. So I began to lurk here again and rejoined the playtest. I decided to recruit the most sage like as well as experienced and self controlled posters from every editions fanbase to help to advocate cross edition input to make Next  a game we can all come to love and accept as D&D. If this is accomplished much of the edition warring will come to an end.  A unified fanbase would be an utter juggernaught financially speaking and would ensure that the franchise lived on beyond my generation. That makes me invested. Because I love Dungeons and Dragons.


Choosing the cream of the crop takes much time and effort and lurking over the posts of these prospects took a long time. These who accepted my invitation became The Brave knights of WTF
by the way they are still here and I salute Pash and Stoloc as well as Valdark for all their efforts thus far. Each member of the Knighthood has his personal specialty as far as the game goes and together represent the entirety of the fanbase throughout every edition. Even some WOTc staff has gotten involved and have joined the cause. I salute Crazy monkey- by the way he monitors my posts and sends me the occasional email if he thinks I'm getting emotionallly involved or if my posts come off in an unwelcome tone.  to be clear I keep much of myself out of the public eye as far as opinion goes. I want this to be Our D&D not mine alone. In no way do I force any of these posters to conform to my ideas as they can tell you and can easily be read by their posts.

What's the goal of the Knighthood?:to Unify this fanbase, rally them around next in an effort to come to a comprimise the majority can accept and through cross edition input make next the best D&D we have ever had. Many question if this can be accomplished in such a brutally combative, rude and polarized group of people that make up the playtest. Sorry, no insult meant. I still have not lost the faith. I hold to the hope that we can begin to understand one another and learn to work side by side. We don't have to always agree to be civil toward one another. My way may not be the best way after all. News break, Neither may yours. Together- Ours could be the best direction.


Keep this in mind- a combative environment doesn't attract new players to Next. It drives fans away from the franchise and only does harm to the credability of us as playtesters. I would personally hate to think I caused someone to become so offended that they abandoned D&D Next or Quit playing D&D forever. There are other platforms that cater to both the playstyles of both new and old gamers now. Osr ,Pathfinder, and Thirteenth Age come to mind. This is why the knights Have this as their motto,  
  
  
                                   " Edition wars  kill players, and that kills D&D".
  
I still remember that 100 pages thread...good times...good times...It's a pity the R&D probably never readed that topic, it would give them alot of insight.
Alright, here I go putting my heart on my sleeve and preparing to get it peirced through with troll arrows. I personally do not need a new edition of D&D to be perfectly happy and content. I have my own favorite and would very likely not ever have strayed  from the system I have played for years. I came to Next out of curiousity. I signed up for the playtest completely unaware of the 3e./ 4e. edition wars. I do not play either system. I'll keep my reasons to myself as not to offend any reader.  So imagine my surprise when I personally got edition puked on by a poster for being old and out of touch with Modern game design. I began to witness constant edition warring behavior and elitism going on unchecked- Orcs seem to ignore more often than correct the problem. They can't catch it all I suppose.

I was actually told to go away and die with my old edition of the game. I was told gamers like me don't matter anymore and that I'll be dead in a few decades anyway. That's when I had a real WTF moment. Not being emotionally attached to Next or modern D&D I left the playtest. It was then that emails came flooding in about how much good I could do for the franchise if I stuck it out and advocated for balance. This happened from both older players as well as newer players. 


 Being a stubborn person I resisted but they ( emails) just kept coming. So I began to lurk here again and rejoined the playtest. I decided to recruit the most sage like as well as experienced and self controlled posters from every editions fanbase to help to advocate cross edition input to make Next  a game we can all come to love and accept as D&D. If this is accomplished much of the edition warring will come to an end.  A unified fanbase would be an utter juggernaught financially speaking and would ensure that the franchise lived on beyond my generation. That makes me invested. Because I love Dungeons and Dragons.


Choosing the cream of the crop takes much time and effort and lurking over the posts of these prospects took a long time. These who accepted my invitation became The Brave knights of WTF
by the way they are still here and I salute Pash and Stoloc as well as Valdark for all their efforts thus far. Each member of the Knighthood has his personal specialty as far as the game goes and together represent the entirety of the fanbase throughout every edition. Even some WOTc staff has gotten involved and have joined the cause. I salute Crazy monkey- by the way he monitors my posts and sends me the occasional email if he thinks I'm getting emotionallly involved or if my posts come off in an unwelcome tone.  to be clear I keep much of myself out of the public eye as far as opinion goes. I want this to be Our D&D not mine alone. In no way do I force any of these posters to conform to my ideas as they can tell you and can easily be read by their posts.

What's the goal of the Knighthood?:to Unify this fanbase, rally them around next in an effort to come to a comprimise the majority can accept and through cross edition input make next the best D&D we have ever had. Many question if this can be accomplished in such a brutally combative, rude and polarized group of people that make up the playtest. Sorry, no insult meant. I still have not lost the faith. I hold to the hope that we can begin to understand one another and learn to work side by side. We don't have to always agree to be civil toward one another. My way may not be the best way after all. News break, Neither may yours. Together- Ours could be the best direction.


Keep this in mind- a combative environment doesn't attract new players to Next. It drives fans away from the franchise and only does harm to the credability of us as playtesters. I would personally hate to think I caused someone to become so offended that they abandoned D&D Next or Quit playing D&D forever. There are other platforms that cater to both the playstyles of both new and old gamers now. Osr ,Pathfinder, and Thirteenth Age come to mind. This is why the knights Have this as their motto,  
  
  
                                   " Edition wars  kill players, and that kills D&D".
  



I have felt the same way many times in the past months. Sure I have my favorite edition, but the other four are a very close second place, and I play them all with fun and hijinks. My rule that decides whether I like the system is simple:


Did I have fun? (yes/no)

If yes: carry on!
If no: why not?

Just roll some dice.

 

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Since I don't think WotC is inclined to do any of the things you've listed, and I don't necessarily agree with any of your points, I'll instead do as you have asked and post a wonderful pecan pie recipe:

Southern Pecan Pie 

Ingredients:



  • 1 cup light corn syrup

  • 1 cup brown sugar

  • 1/4 teaspoon salt

  • 1/3 cup melted butter

  • 1 teaspoon vanilla

  • 3 large eggs, slightly beaten

  • 1 heaping cup pecan halves

  • 1 pie shell, unbaked, 9-inch


Preparation:


In a large bowl, combine corn syrup, brown sugar, salt, butter, and vanilla; mix well. Add slightly beaten eggs and blend well; stir in pecans. Pour into the unbaked pie shell. Bake in a preheated 350° oven for 45 minutes, or until set. Cool pecan pie and serve with a dollop of whipped cream or vanilla ice cream.



Wow thats unhealthy. I'd have to swap out the sugar for apple juice concentrate and the corn syrup for a little ground pecan flour and more apple juice concentrate. Haven't found a substitute for butter yet, but I think oil works to an extent. Everything else looks good.

Edit: A lot of recipes I've seen combine sugar and salt. They pretty much cancel each other out so you could remove the salt and cut back on the sugar for about the same amount.
Since I don't think WotC is inclined to do any of the things you've listed, and I don't necessarily agree with any of your points, I'll instead do as you have asked and post a wonderful pecan pie recipe:

Southern Pecan Pie 

Ingredients:



  • 1 cup light corn syrup

  • 1 cup brown sugar

  • 1/4 teaspoon salt

  • 1/3 cup melted butter

  • 1 teaspoon vanilla

  • 3 large eggs, slightly beaten

  • 1 heaping cup pecan halves

  • 1 pie shell, unbaked, 9-inch


Preparation:


In a large bowl, combine corn syrup, brown sugar, salt, butter, and vanilla; mix well. Add slightly beaten eggs and blend well; stir in pecans. Pour into the unbaked pie shell. Bake in a preheated 350° oven for 45 minutes, or until set. Cool pecan pie and serve with a dollop of whipped cream or vanilla ice cream.



Wow thats unhealthy. I'd have to swap out the sugar for apple juice concentrate and the corn syrup for a little ground pecan flour and more apple juice concentrate. Haven't found a substitute for butter yet, but I think oil works to an extent. Everything else looks good.

Edit: A lot of recipes I've seen combine sugar and salt. They pretty much cancel each other out so you could remove the salt and cut back on the sugar for about the same amount.

Man I can't have this for two reasons. 1. Wife is allergic to walnuts and pecans. 2. Allergy is so bad she will die. She breaks out in hives just going near a tree.  Got Some other recipe for me?
Dude. It's pie.
Someone attempting to make "healthy" pie is just missing the whole point.
First off, have you guys ever tried chocolate pecan pie? To die for.

Secondly, I think they run the risk of people just buying the updated rules book/conversion book, and just use all their content they already own. I know that's what I immediately thought when I read the OPs post.



Yes, you literally die from it through heart disease, stroke, obesity, etc...
Dude. It's pie.
Someone attempting to make "healthy" pie is just missing the whole point.



That's a common misconception. I can make a yogurt parfait that tastes better than anything else. Its made with 100% Organic Yogurt, 100% whole grain oats and nuts, and various fruits chopped up.

I can make ice cream that is 100% healthy for you that tastes better than store bought (hint look up frozen banana ice cream).

The whole it has to be bad for you to taste good is propagated by the companies that are using substandard ingredients because they are cheaper and piling on the MSGs.

You can make healthy and tasty desserts and treats.
First of all, this isn't really a rant, as in a venting session; I'm genuinely looking for a solid answer to the following question: why doesn't WotC shelf D&DN and instead actively support all editions of D&D (1e-4e)? This satisfies everyone from the OSR guys to the 4e fanboys. There are fans of each of the editions. Just leave them be and give us what I think we all want anyway: great, high-quality supplemental material. But instead, WotC is trying to make an end-all-be-all edition of the game...or, as a member from one of my gaming groups said last week, "D&DN is a game designer's version of Sauron's Ring."


How? Republish all the core books for all past editions? Do you really think game stores should be happy stocking four times the core rule books, especially since they'd be asked to sell this new reprints for more than original copies fetch on eBay and Amazon.
Not to mention production costs. The more copies of a book you print the cheaper it gets. If you only print a handful of many, many books -even if you're not paying for the writing and development anymore- the profit per book is low. If you sell many copies of a single book profits go up.

Supporting all editions with anything but Print on Demand is foolish. 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

I've said that from the start.

Set up a pre-3rd evolution team to unify the early editions and fix some of the major problems without sacrificing the style and feel at all.

Refine 4th, getting a 4.5 edition to apply what they've learned.

Use the money they save on NOT developing 5th (and what they're going to RAKE IN from selling old material again) to buy/merger with Paizo and turn 3.5/Pathfinder into a valid WotC property again.

Everyone totally wins.

They'll never do it.


Paizo isn't a publicly traded company, two a hostile buyout is not an option. You need to go to them with a sack of money knowing they have to choose to sell.
Now most of the staff of Paizo has worked for WotC before and is smart enough to know what happens. Once the companies are merged, you don't need two staffs worth of writers. Mass layoffs ensue. Now the managers of Paizo have a sack full of money from the sale. They don't want to be bored and so they start a new company (this is how Paizo got started in the first place after WotC laid off people after the Hasbro purchase). The owners of the new company hire back all their friends as they get laid off from Wizards. You now have Paizo with the same fanbase and same staff with a different name.

But the owners of Paizo a smart enough to see this, and likely won't sell as it leads to everyone losing. 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

I am enjoying the playtest. It has its ups and downs but overall fun to test stuff out and then provide feedback when asked. I rarely post because of some of the hostility I see, but I have also seen some very good ideas posted by people.
Wow thats unhealthy. I'd have to swap out the sugar for apple juice concentrate and the corn syrup for a little ground pecan flour and more apple juice concentrate. Haven't found a substitute for butter yet, but I think oil works to an extent. Everything else looks good.

That's all well and good, but substituting out sugar for apple juice concentrate doesn't actually make the pie healthy. Apple juice concentrate, once you get past the fuzzy feelings people get from saying "Natural! Yay!", is just sugar, water, acid, and vitamins. Because acid is sour you'll need more sugar in total to get the equivalent sweetness, and sugar from apples is still sugar with all the same health issues.
Wow thats unhealthy. I'd have to swap out the sugar for apple juice concentrate and the corn syrup for a little ground pecan flour and more apple juice concentrate. Haven't found a substitute for butter yet, but I think oil works to an extent. Everything else looks good.

That's all well and good, but substituting out sugar for apple juice concentrate doesn't actually make the pie healthy. Apple juice concentrate, once you get past the fuzzy feelings people get from saying "Natural! Yay!", is just sugar, water, acid, and vitamins. Because acid is sour you'll need more sugar in total to get the equivalent sweetness, and sugar from apples is still sugar with all the same health issues.



Actually natural fructose your body can handle much better than sucrose. Don't confuse with bacteria poo high fructose corn syrup which has mercury and other unhealthy things in it that make any benefit from the fructose null and void. Apple Juice concentrate is much healthier than 'sugar' and 'corn syrup'. Its not the 100% healthy option like miracle berry extract that nullifies sour tastes (like eating a lemon and it tasting like sweetened lemonade), however it is much better than the alternatives.
Since I don't think WotC is inclined to do any of the things you've listed, and I don't necessarily agree with any of your points, I'll instead do as you have asked and post a wonderful pecan pie recipe:

Southern Pecan Pie 

Ingredients:



  • 1 cup light corn syrup

  • 1 cup brown sugar

  • 1/4 teaspoon salt

  • 1/3 cup melted butter

  • 1 teaspoon vanilla

  • 3 large eggs, slightly beaten

  • 1 heaping cup pecan halves

  • 1 pie shell, unbaked, 9-inch


Preparation:


In a large bowl, combine corn syrup, brown sugar, salt, butter, and vanilla; mix well. Add slightly beaten eggs and blend well; stir in pecans. Pour into the unbaked pie shell. Bake in a preheated 350° oven for 45 minutes, or until set. Cool pecan pie and serve with a dollop of whipped cream or vanilla ice cream.



Wow thats unhealthy. I'd have to swap out the sugar for apple juice concentrate and the corn syrup for a little ground pecan flour and more apple juice concentrate. Haven't found a substitute for butter yet, but I think oil works to an extent. Everything else looks good.

Edit: A lot of recipes I've seen combine sugar and salt. They pretty much cancel each other out so you could remove the salt and cut back on the sugar for about the same amount.



 I know for a fact that vegeteble oil just doesn't do. Doesn't keep the filling sticky enough and you miss out on that slight savory aftertaste that butter has. And speaking of stickiness, I question how apple juice could replace sugar without caramelizing an inordinate amount first. Wouldn't applesauce serve that purpose better in that case?

 And the sugar/salt thing? Goes back to butter. If you use unsalsted butter, then it's ok to add some salt to bring out that aforementioned savory aftertaste.

Alright, enough derailing from me.

Since I don't think WotC is inclined to do any of the things you've listed, and I don't necessarily agree with any of your points, I'll instead do as you have asked and post a wonderful pecan pie recipe:

Southern Pecan Pie 

Ingredients:



  • 1 cup light corn syrup

  • 1 cup brown sugar

  • 1/4 teaspoon salt

  • 1/3 cup melted butter

  • 1 teaspoon vanilla

  • 3 large eggs, slightly beaten

  • 1 heaping cup pecan halves

  • 1 pie shell, unbaked, 9-inch


Preparation:


In a large bowl, combine corn syrup, brown sugar, salt, butter, and vanilla; mix well. Add slightly beaten eggs and blend well; stir in pecans. Pour into the unbaked pie shell. Bake in a preheated 350° oven for 45 minutes, or until set. Cool pecan pie and serve with a dollop of whipped cream or vanilla ice cream.



Wow thats unhealthy. I'd have to swap out the sugar for apple juice concentrate and the corn syrup for a little ground pecan flour and more apple juice concentrate. Haven't found a substitute for butter yet, but I think oil works to an extent. Everything else looks good.

Edit: A lot of recipes I've seen combine sugar and salt. They pretty much cancel each other out so you could remove the salt and cut back on the sugar for about the same amount.



 I know for a fact that vegeteble oil just doesn't do. Doesn't keep the filling sticky enough and you miss out on that slight savory aftertaste that butter has. And speaking of stickiness, I question how apple juice could replace sugar without caramelizing an inordinate amount first. Wouldn't applesauce serve that purpose better in that case?

 And the sugar/salt thing? Goes back to butter. If you use unsalsted butter, then it's ok to add some salt to bring out that aforementioned savory aftertaste.

Alright, enough derailing from me.




Concentrated apple juice carmelizes almost as good as sugar when heated because its concentrated.
I've found I can substitute canned pumpkin for the oil in pretty much any boxed cake recipe. I suspect I could do the same here and it would enhance the sweet nutty flavor of the pecans.

Oh, and WotC isn't reissuing d&d 1-4 because they need new fans, not existing ones.
Very possible, but it doesn't matter because WotC has no interest in going this route. Even if they ever developed a pre-3rd line I think they know that 3rd is gone to them forever. Even so, just doing a pre-3rd and 4th line, and maybe even developing something else eventually, would be better than 5th most likely.


If you think about it, making new 3e content would make WotC the biggest Pathfinder 3rd Party Publisher. ;)

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

Very possible, but it doesn't matter because WotC has no interest in going this route. Even if they ever developed a pre-3rd line I think they know that 3rd is gone to them forever. Even so, just doing a pre-3rd and 4th line, and maybe even developing something else eventually, would be better than 5th most likely.


If you think about it, making new 3e content would make WotC the biggest Pathfinder 3rd Party Publisher. ;)



That... actually is a good one.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)

How? Republish all the core books for all past editions?

In case you haven't noticed, they're in the process of doing that very thing.

Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011