Holy Carp! Expertise Dice + Specialty = Arcane Warrior!

I had a flash of insight today, all it would take to make a decent warrior-mage is some feats to add a magical flair to some maneuvers. For example:

Martial Arcana Specialist:
You've trained for many years to blend swordplay with magic. These are fruits of your labors.

Level 1: Elemental Weapon-
You have learned to infuse your weapon with seething energy.
Benefit: Pick an energy type, when you use a meneuver that deals damage, you may convert the damage done into this energy type. The energy type you chose may be changed during a short rest.

Level 3: Aegis-
You can conjure a shield or force to protect yourself and others.
Benefit: Your parry and protect maneuvers can be manifested as barriers of pure force. This extends their protection to include ranged and energy attacks. Alos, you need not be armed anymore to use those maneuvers.

Level 6: Wind Step-
Your astounding leaps become even more amazing with a dash of magic added to them.
Benefit: When you use your vault maneuver, you can change direction once during any part of the jump. The height and overall distance covered remain then same though.

Level 9: Mind Over Matter-
Your force of will and magical talent are channeled through your body to lend you great strength.
Benefit: You may add your Intelligence modifier to the total check result when you use the Mighty Exertion maneuver.
With enough elbow grease and houserule engineering we can get to the point where we have a class with ExD and a class with spell slots.

Every concept can then be generated with an additional background and specialty.

Just remember to leave out prerequisites and you are golden.

If you are going for it, why follow that level progression?  Why not add feats at 1,3,5,7 and 9.  End the arbitrary madness.

Just a thought.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

As interesting as I think it would be if they ditched the concept of class as it stands now and had most classes chopped up into backgrounds and specialties, I don't think it will ever happen. Just like I don't think the fighter and rogue will ever become one class.

I do agree that feats/specialties should lack any and all prerequisites. I feel it would open up character options and concepts that wouldn't be gated by ability prereqs.

And I really don't understand why they're sticking to feats coming in at 1st and every 3rd. Why can't we just have a feat at every odd level? 
Because in the 2nd packet feats were awesome, and they didn't adjust for the nerfing feats got this time.
Thats where the elbow grease comes in.

PS, I am not suggesting the game be published with just two classes.  But as we see with your post, a creative DM could put together Specialties that are concept oriented and not just a stocking with some feats stuffed in them.

One thing I was thinking was to allow the suggested feat progression from the Specialty but also allow the player to select some general feats somewhere in the progression. 

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Because in the 2nd packet feats were awesome, and they didn't adjust for the nerfing feats got this time.

They also nerfed way too damn hard. I'd rather get more powerful feats every other level than these boring feats every third level.
IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/2.jpg)
I had a flash of insight today, all it would take to make a decent warrior-mage is some feats to add a magical flair to some maneuvers. For example:

Martial Arcana Specialist:
You've trained for many years to blend swordplay with magic. These are fruits of your labors.

Level 1: Elemental Weapon-
You have learned to infuse your weapon with seething energy.
Benefit: Pick an energy type, when you use a meneuver that deals damage, you may convert the damage done into this energy type. The energy type you chose may be changed during a short rest.

Level 3: Aegis-
You can conjure a shield or force to protect yourself and others.
Benefit: Your parry and protect maneuvers can be manifested as barriers of pure force. This extends their protection to include ranged and energy attacks. Alos, you need not be armed anymore to use those maneuvers.

Level 6: Wind Step-
Your astounding leaps become even more amazing with a dash of magic added to them.
Benefit: When you use your vault maneuver, you can change direction once during any part of the jump. The height and overall distance covered remain then same though.

Level 9: Mind Over Matter-
Your force of will and magical talent are channeled through your body to lend you great strength.
Benefit: You may add your Intelligence modifier to the total check result when you use the Mighty Exertion maneuver.


I really like the ideas presented here. This is what good brainstorming is all about! You are using feats correctly in the fact that they are granting options and small improvements rather than giant leaps in usefulness in abilities. Kudos.

One criticism, it does kind of force the fighter to take two particular maneuvers. But this can easily be remedied by skipping the feats if the maneuvers required are not desired.

Good post! Keep it up!

My two copper.
Mostly I just miss the mini-multiclass aspect.

 The OP's idea is interesting but it does restrict maneuver selection pretty heavily. If that's an intentional thing go right ahead but that's the kind of thing people sometimes do without realizing it so just a heads up.
That is a problem I noticed, but only managed to weave into Elemental Weapon since it applies to all maneuvers that deals damage. Aegis could be further extended to cover all maneuvers that prevent damage.  You could also change Mind Over Body to affect any Str, Dex, or Con check that is modified by a maneuver. Here are a couple of replacements for the two end feats.

Level 6: Wind Strider-
When combat commences, you dance among the wind and avoid all obstacles in your path.
Benefit: When you use a maneuver that involves movement, you tread upon the air just above the ground, which allows you to ignore most difficult terrain and pitfalls. If you do not end your movement on something that can support you, you fall.

Level 9: Words of Warding-
You have mastered short utterances of power that protect you from all manner of dangers.
Benefit: When you use a maneuver that affects a saving throw, you may use your Intelligence modifier in place of the die roll if it is higher.

These still restrict you to certain maneuvers but do give you some choice. Ideally, I'd prefer to design a whole bunch of feats, some specific and others narrow, and just throw them all into a Martial Arcana bucket and say pick one at each particular level. 
Nifty ideas.

One issue is that your concepts for the feats conflict with the current design for specialties, in that they are class-independent.  Keying feats to specific fighter maneuvers, for example, is something that they're strongly trying to avoid.

The concepts themselves are great, though.  Personally, I think the Swordmage is a unique enough concept to stand on its own - it is not just a multiclass fighter/wizard.


What I'd really, really like is to remove the class bonuses to attacks, so that a Fighter could go with high Int, go Arcane Dabbler, pick up Shocking Grasp as a primary attack, and have the Fighter maneuvers worded in such a way that they're not quite so dependent on actual weapons.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Nifty ideas.

One issue is that your concepts for the feats conflict with the current design for specialties, in that they are class-independent.  Keying feats to specific fighter maneuvers, for example, is something that they're strongly trying to avoid.

The concepts themselves are great, though.  Personally, I think the Swordmage is a unique enough concept to stand on its own - it is not just a multiclass fighter/wizard.


What I'd really, really like is to remove the class bonuses to attacks, so that a Fighter could go with high Int, go Arcane Dabbler, pick up Shocking Grasp as a primary attack, and have the Fighter maneuvers worded in such a way that they're not quite so dependent on actual weapons.


Doh, I missed that. Yes, feats, until they state otherwise, should be class independent. I didn't even think of that >.>
My two copper.
No class feats!?...Booo! BOOOOO!!!

Seriously, class feats were pretty cool on 4e, it even made some intersting combos when the requirement of some feats it's a class and a race combination, making some races that doesn't have the bonus on ability scores that the class need into a viable and interesting option. 
Actually, except for the ones that reference specific maneuvers (which I'm scrapping anyway), they all work with Rogue maneuvers as well. Elemental Weapon, Wind Strider, and Words of Warding all reference generic "classes" of maneuvers, such as those that deal damage (Deadly Strike, Sneak Attack, Glancing Blow, etc.), involve movement (Spring Attack and Tumbling Dodge), and boost saving throws. All of these affect both the rogue and fighter, and are specific to boosting maneuvers, not fighters.

EDIT: I should also mention, there are feats that specifically affect spells, so I don't see why we can't have feats that boost maneuvers. Also, I'm fairly certain other classes, like the ranger and paladin, will be getting maneuvers/expertise dice as well, so I definitely see space for maneuver boosting feats. 
Actually, except for the ones that reference specific maneuvers (which I'm scrapping anyway), they all work with Rogue maneuvers as well. Elemental Weapon, Wind Strider, and Words of Warding all reference generic "classes" of maneuvers, such as those that deal damage (Deadly Strike, Sneak Attack, Glancing Blow, etc.), involve movement (Spring Attack and Tumbling Dodge), and boost saving throws. All of these affect both the rogue and fighter, and are specific to boosting maneuvers, not fighters.

EDIT: I should also mention, there are feats that specifically affect spells, so I don't see why we can't have feats that boost maneuvers. Also, I'm fairly certain other classes, like the ranger and paladin, will be getting maneuvers/expertise dice as well, so I definitely see space for maneuver boosting feats. 


Because they want specialties to be universally accessible, or at least accessible to more than 1 class.
My two copper.
If there are feats for spells, why not for expertise dice?
I have an answer for you, it may even be the truth.
If there are feats for spells, why not for expertise dice?



Didn't Mr Mearls said that he wanted to make the fighter have options and abilities that make him feel unique among the rest of the classes?..thought looks like that idea was throw out thru the window on this draft of the classes
If there are feats for spells, why not for expertise dice?


I can see feats for expertise dice as long as it met 2 criteria.

1. Expertise dice ends up being used by 3+ classes. We know magic will, so that's a non issue. This would allow enough classes to view it as an option to be considered open ended.

2. It effected expertise dice as a mechanic, and not particular maneuvers, or effected maneuvers that more than every class with expertise dice could obtain. Again, this is needed to keep it an "open ended" choice, not a fighter choice.
My two copper.
Didn't Mr Mearls said that he wanted to make the fighter have options and abilities that make him feel unique among the rest of the classes?..thought looks like that idea was throw out thru the window on this draft of the classes


If the Fighter has access to maneuvers that other Expertise Dice classes don't, that will go a long way to maintaining class integrity. Options and Abilities are not necessarily the same as mechanical resource. Even if both use Expertise Dice, the Rogue and Fighter can be as distinct as the Wizard and Cleric who both use Spells.

 
I can see feats for expertise dice as long as it met 2 criteria.

1. Expertise dice ends up being used by 3+ classes. We know magic will, so that's a non issue. This would allow enough classes to view it as an option to be considered open ended.

2. It effected expertise dice as a mechanic, and not particular maneuvers, or effected maneuvers that more than every class with expertise dice could obtain. Again, this is needed to keep it an "open ended" choice, not a fighter choice.


1. I agree with.

2. This is a bit of murky territory. However, if the Feat was worded to "choose one of your maneuvers..." then it could also squeak by, neh? 
I have an answer for you, it may even be the truth.
Did nobody pay attention to the exact wording of the feats? I agree that the first iteration was way too specific for two of them, but look at Elemental Weapon and the two new ones I posted. They all say "When you use a maneuver that X...", where X is something like deals damage, involves movement, or affects saving throws. How are they not worded to be as open as possibe? They affect multiple maneuvers, and allow for forward compatibility with any future maneuvers developed as well.

As I mentioned in my previous post, assuming that rogue's keep maneuvers and expertise dice, I'd be flabbergasted if the ranger, barbarian, paladin, warlord and other warrior type classes didn't get expertise dice as well.