Statestistics 2012

65 posts / 0 new
Last post
I'm in the process of writing a spreadsheet showing all the Top 8s by archetype etc. from the 2012 US States (I'll add Canada's later).

I'll post the fully uploaded sheet later, but key points:

Out of 363 decks, there were 65 Bant Control; 43 Jund Midrange; 35 BR Zombies; 28 Selesnya Midrange, 20 W/u Humans.

Those are your top 5 performers, there's a bunch of variants of these thems clustered around the 10-20 mark.

Out of a possible 2904 Thragtusks, we have 780, giving us a total of 26.86% coverage. It is the most played card by a significant margin; I didn't count the rest but I'd say Terminus is probably the next-most played, possibly excluding lands.

UPDATED: Link to the document is here: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvR... 
Look forward to it. Thanks for the crunching and gathering.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

>Statestistics
You're not LSV, you can't get away with **** like that.
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
But MrIndigo could beat up LSV in a fight. That counts for something.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Been saying this for a few months now, this forum needs more puns.

(at)MrEnglish22

Given how long it's been since states occurred, I don't think this would be relevant.



You realize States was less than 3 weeks ago right?
Actually I'm not that good a fight, so LSV could probably beat me.
Given how long it's been since states occurred, I don't think this would be relevant.




(couldn't resist) 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

Actually I'm not that good a fight, so LSV could probably beat me.


Actually, he'd probably tell you how you were 'sweet' and you guys would start making out.
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
Puns are perfectly fine so long as the speaker doesn't put verbal emphasis on the pun. Since this is text-only, we need more puns!

Thanks for running the numbers, Indigo.
I would take the result of states over someones FNM anyday... just sayin
Interesting that Bant Control has the most wins since the beginning as it is probably the best established deck of this metagame. It can handle any form of aggro (Zombies or white based) without effort thanks to its sweepers and can play the permission required to beat the other three color midrange decks.

I can't help thinking Jund is a carryover of the former block metagame that is ill equipped to deal with the current threats. It can't handle Geist of Saint Traft from the aggro decks very well and Bant can sit there with the permission and Sphinx's Revelation against Jund, which brings the question, is Rakdos's Return good against Bant Control? My gut tells me that it fails against a heavy counter wall plus Revelation, the damage isn't relevant and even if it resolves Jund lacks the clock to beat Bant before it stabilizes, but I people from either side tell opposite things, which is your experience?

Neither Junk Tokens nor Rites make a heavy appearance here, but they are the other tier 1 decks. Do you think non green UW control has credentials to be a top competitor? Any of the white based aggro decks including the Geist Voltron ones?
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
esper control is the best deck that no one plays.  

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

I'll be honest I can't identify what decks are "good" and not right now. There are lots of things that seem viable, but I don't playtest as much as many here do. I know if I went to a tournament wanting to win I'd play Bant. Next to it, I'd play Jund. Both feel pretty "safe" to me. I'm surprised and not, that Esper tokens is doing well.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

Standard isn't going to interest me until Gatecrash. Right now, it's pretty limited to the guilds in Return to Ravnica.
I don't think it is reserved for the Guilds. Bant isn't playing Simic yet, Jund isn't playing Gruul, but both are being played. I actually think singular 2 color decks are in the minority. I mean there is some GW, RB, and UW floating around but in less concentration than 3+ color. I'd think only the mono-color enthusuast would be complaining ...and they probably are out there somewhere.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

No one makes out with LSV before I do.

*fangirls* 

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

No one makes out with LSV before I do.

*fangirls* 


I heard he's pretty sweet.
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
I like what I've done here.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Given how long it's been since states occurred, I don't think this would be relevant.



You realize States was less than 3 weeks ago right?


You haven't been playing magic very long, have you?


I've been playing Magic since 2007. Took a break 2010-2011.

Standard isn't going to interest me until Gatecrash. Right now, it's pretty limited to the guilds in Return to Ravnica.


Then stop posting here.



You have a bad attitude.
*Grabs Popcorn*

Internet fight! 

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

Not related to the Internet Fight above, at my local gameday Jund took 1st through 3rd with bant control a close contender.  I like Jund most however because it has powerful sideboard options for most if not all metagames. In my opinion Jund has some no-optimal matches but no bad match-ups.
Not related to the Internet Fight above, at my local gameday Jund took 1st through 3rd with bant control a close contender.  I like Jund most however because it has powerful sideboard options for most if not all metagames. In my opinion Jund has some no-optimal matches but no bad match-ups.



This ain't anything like what Jund used to be. Current Jund has a pretty crummy control matchup, and its mana makes it lose a rather non-zero number of games. Jund's greatest enemy is its mana base.

(at)MrEnglish22

Jman, can you explain how Jund's manabase is worse than Bant, America, Junk, or Grixis? Nonviable wedges (which work, but aren't as good as the aforementioned 5) are Oros, Esper, BUG, Naya, and RUG.

So... with every viable wedge having fair access to core set and innistrad lands and 2 shocks I'm a little confused as to how Jund's manabase is worse.

I can see one possible angle for arguing Jund down, but I'm not sure its a knock and I'd like to see you throw it out on your own. 

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Not saying that there aren't other decks with wonky manabases, but the main difference is that these decks don't have nearly as greedy manabases.

Take for example Bant (I would use WUR, but I don't know a ton about the Midrange deck, and the control deck is falling out of favor). The deck only really uses white and blue mana to cast the majority of its spells. The only green spells are Thragtusk, Centaur Healer, Farseek, and sometimes Garruk, Primal Hunter in rare cases. 

Jund, however, wants all three of its colors in the early game. It wants red for its removal spells, green for its creatures, and black for Undergrownd Connections its removal, and its creatures. Almost all the cards have multcolor mana requirements. Jund can't really afford to stumble on one of its three colors like Bant can stumble on Green, because not only can Bant easily play with only a single mana of its third color, Jund doesn't really want that. Its not that the mana base is worse, its more that the deck needs its mana at specific times more than other decks. It has less wiggle room, to put it another way, when it comes to which lands come down when.

That said, I'm only speaking from my personal experience with trying the deck. When I played it (5 or so games) I spent 3 of them stumbling around with my mana base. I was rather unimpressed by the deck compared to most of the other deck options out there, but I won't say its not a solid deck.

On the topic of RUG, I feel like it is probably the most viable color combo that doesn't see play right now. It gets a lot of the best creatures that are easily splashable, and a lot of the best spells. Probably needs the other shocks, though.

(at)MrEnglish22

Jund's manabase is actually not that bad. They have three colour demands, but no real colour depth requirement except triple red for overload Mortars. Consequently, as long as they hit 3 lands, they can cast basically every spell they have.

Add Farseek and Keyrunes, and they can easily run 4/25 noncolour lands.

Underworld Connections comes out of the board, in slower matchups so you can wait on the second black spell.

I think the hardest thing to cast would be Nighthawk, but most don't run it, favouring Borderland Ranger for even smoother mana. Or Strangleroot Geist, but those builds tend to be almost all green sources anyway.
Bad attitude?

Do you teach 3rd grade or something? 



No, but it's obvious you are in the third grade.
Bad attitude?

Do you teach 3rd grade or something? 



No, but it's obvious you are in the third grade.


OHOHOHO

ice cold!  
You know, just now I was about to update the Tournament Centers with threads, but it's going to be more annoying than I expected because the only significant tournies have been States and SCG Opens so far.  Would you mind PMing me the spreadsheet or letting me know when you have it posted here?

I miss good deck databases.  I haven't seen any I liked since deckcheck died.  This makes it quite time-consuming to collect data.
Come check out my friend's youtube channel where he gives bad movies what's coming to them!
You Make the Card
Best Contest Holder 2010 YMtC Idol 9 4th Place
Mafia History
Friendliest Player 2010 Werewolves Invade YMtC!: Town-aligned Rotworm Mass, Survived, Mafia Victory Heroes Mafia: Angela Petrelli, Town-Aligned Undercover Revengeful Mother, Win for Me, Mafia Victory Super Smash Bros. Mafia: Town-Aligned Mason, Survived, Town Victory Bear Mafia: Town-Aligned Vanilla, Lynched Day 1, Mafia Victory YMtC Mafia II: Henry-Stern, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Town Victory, Town MVP Time Fracture Mafia: Mafia-Aligned Nero, the Last Romulan, Lynched Day 3, Borg Victory Touhou Mafia III: Tenshi Hinani, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Survived, Mafia Victory, Town MVP Mafia 2010: Lynched Day 1, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Mafia Victory Dragonball Z Mafia: Goku, Town-Aligned Charismatic Townie, Mafia Victory Quarantined Mafia: Lynched Day 4, J. Walter Weatherman, Infected-Aligned Administrative Assistant, Mr. T (so basically mafia) Victory Glass Box Mafia: Killed Night 2, Icthys, Town-Aligned Networker, Town Victory Battle Royale Mafia: Killed Night 3, Zipperflesh and Dark Stryke Victory Scars of Mirrodin Mafia: Killed Night 3, Town-Aligned Charismatic, Mafia Victory Portal Mafia: Lynched Day 3, Test Subject #2, Mafia-Aligned Rolestopper, Town Victory (that was utter BS) Toxic Waste Mafia: Survived, Violet, Hive (Cult)-Aligned Powerless Taskmaster, Hive Victory PK Hatez You Mafia: Survived, Town-Aligned Goth, Mafia Victory Dreven City: A Wild West Mafia: Town-Aligned "Los Angeles" Reed, One-Shot Vig, Survived, Town Victory (just barely, major props to Just a Cleric) YMtC Mafia III: Killed Night 2, Mafia Victory Vampire Mafia: Mafia-Aligned Pander, Mafia Victory Touhou Border Collapse: Bill Cosby, Town-Aligned, Killed Night 1, Mafia Victory Harry Potter Mafia: Argus Filch, Town-Aligned Tracker, Lynched Day 5, Mafia Victory [Basic #5] Bandit Mafia: Town-Aligned Vanilla, Survived, Mafia Victory Borderlands Mafia: Town-Aligned Mason, Killed Night 1, Town Victory eBay Mafia: Mafia-Aligned, Survived, Mafia Victory Full Metal Alchemist Mafia: Alphonse Elric, Town-Aligned Mason, Killed Night 1, Town Victory Sunflowers for Ragnarokio: Lynched Day 3, Town/Just a Cleric/Tevish Szat/Faux-Razor Victory True Blood Mafia: Lynched Day 4, Mafia Victory My Mafia Diary: Skyhunter, Mafia-Aligned Emo, Survived, Flawless Mafia Victory Paper Mario Mafia: Blue Goomba, Town-Aligned Lover, Killed Night 2, Mafia Victory Small Town Mafia: Pigsticker Mafia-Aligned Coward, Killed Night 2, Caveman Mafia and Zipperflesh Victory Stuff on my Desk Mafia: Lotus Cobra, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Survived, Mafia Victory Order of the Chaos Rose Mafia: Lord Dagol Ji'Lovik, Town-Aligned Hypnotist, Mafia Victory, Town MVP Camp Crystal Lake Mafia: Ongoing A Certain Magical Mafia: Killed Night 1, Town-Aligned The Siege of Balignor Mafia: Ongoing, Killed Day 4 Mafia of Ancient Egypt: Replaced in for Murica day 2, Ra, Town-Aligned Charismatic, Town Victory, Town MVP Lord of the Rings Mafia: Replaced in for Dr Demento, Town-Aligned Mason/One-Shot Self-Doc, Town Victory, Town MVP Internet Stars Mafia: Town-Aligned Vanilla, Mafia Victory Mythos Mafia: Ongoing
Re: The above LSV fan-girl-ry:
I'm fantastically depressed and you bastards made me smile. Thanks. :3

Re: Thread
From the perspective of aggro: My FNM is a slice of PTQ top-8, each week. Bant is NEARLY beatable, American control is ****ing impossible. In short, **** U/W, same as the last 5 years.

Edit: Also **** Thragtusk, god damn.
All I've seen at my FNM is Selesnya, Selesnya everywhere!  So much Selesnya!  Based on what I've seen of my deck, I am happen if that continues to be the case.

Also, let the record show that I am a fan of the pun in the thread title.  This is just punnishment for the rest of you folks that can't appreciate a good pun.  Perhaps half my enjoyment of Izzet comes from the puns you can make with it.  Yeah, I think I would get along with LSV just fine.
Come check out my friend's youtube channel where he gives bad movies what's coming to them!
You Make the Card
Best Contest Holder 2010 YMtC Idol 9 4th Place
Mafia History
Friendliest Player 2010 Werewolves Invade YMtC!: Town-aligned Rotworm Mass, Survived, Mafia Victory Heroes Mafia: Angela Petrelli, Town-Aligned Undercover Revengeful Mother, Win for Me, Mafia Victory Super Smash Bros. Mafia: Town-Aligned Mason, Survived, Town Victory Bear Mafia: Town-Aligned Vanilla, Lynched Day 1, Mafia Victory YMtC Mafia II: Henry-Stern, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Town Victory, Town MVP Time Fracture Mafia: Mafia-Aligned Nero, the Last Romulan, Lynched Day 3, Borg Victory Touhou Mafia III: Tenshi Hinani, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Survived, Mafia Victory, Town MVP Mafia 2010: Lynched Day 1, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Mafia Victory Dragonball Z Mafia: Goku, Town-Aligned Charismatic Townie, Mafia Victory Quarantined Mafia: Lynched Day 4, J. Walter Weatherman, Infected-Aligned Administrative Assistant, Mr. T (so basically mafia) Victory Glass Box Mafia: Killed Night 2, Icthys, Town-Aligned Networker, Town Victory Battle Royale Mafia: Killed Night 3, Zipperflesh and Dark Stryke Victory Scars of Mirrodin Mafia: Killed Night 3, Town-Aligned Charismatic, Mafia Victory Portal Mafia: Lynched Day 3, Test Subject #2, Mafia-Aligned Rolestopper, Town Victory (that was utter BS) Toxic Waste Mafia: Survived, Violet, Hive (Cult)-Aligned Powerless Taskmaster, Hive Victory PK Hatez You Mafia: Survived, Town-Aligned Goth, Mafia Victory Dreven City: A Wild West Mafia: Town-Aligned "Los Angeles" Reed, One-Shot Vig, Survived, Town Victory (just barely, major props to Just a Cleric) YMtC Mafia III: Killed Night 2, Mafia Victory Vampire Mafia: Mafia-Aligned Pander, Mafia Victory Touhou Border Collapse: Bill Cosby, Town-Aligned, Killed Night 1, Mafia Victory Harry Potter Mafia: Argus Filch, Town-Aligned Tracker, Lynched Day 5, Mafia Victory [Basic #5] Bandit Mafia: Town-Aligned Vanilla, Survived, Mafia Victory Borderlands Mafia: Town-Aligned Mason, Killed Night 1, Town Victory eBay Mafia: Mafia-Aligned, Survived, Mafia Victory Full Metal Alchemist Mafia: Alphonse Elric, Town-Aligned Mason, Killed Night 1, Town Victory Sunflowers for Ragnarokio: Lynched Day 3, Town/Just a Cleric/Tevish Szat/Faux-Razor Victory True Blood Mafia: Lynched Day 4, Mafia Victory My Mafia Diary: Skyhunter, Mafia-Aligned Emo, Survived, Flawless Mafia Victory Paper Mario Mafia: Blue Goomba, Town-Aligned Lover, Killed Night 2, Mafia Victory Small Town Mafia: Pigsticker Mafia-Aligned Coward, Killed Night 2, Caveman Mafia and Zipperflesh Victory Stuff on my Desk Mafia: Lotus Cobra, Town-Aligned Vanilla, Survived, Mafia Victory Order of the Chaos Rose Mafia: Lord Dagol Ji'Lovik, Town-Aligned Hypnotist, Mafia Victory, Town MVP Camp Crystal Lake Mafia: Ongoing A Certain Magical Mafia: Killed Night 1, Town-Aligned The Siege of Balignor Mafia: Ongoing, Killed Day 4 Mafia of Ancient Egypt: Replaced in for Murica day 2, Ra, Town-Aligned Charismatic, Town Victory, Town MVP Lord of the Rings Mafia: Replaced in for Dr Demento, Town-Aligned Mason/One-Shot Self-Doc, Town Victory, Town MVP Internet Stars Mafia: Town-Aligned Vanilla, Mafia Victory Mythos Mafia: Ongoing
Good thing that WotC is making it even easier to access MTGO DE decklists, so that we can have some "decks to beat" threads up in the TO Center.

Oh, wait.... no they aren't. 

(at)MrEnglish22

My FNM is lotsa zombies, green mid-range, and Epic Experiment. We get the occasional miser's control or that UW skies deck. I've been running Rites, WUR, and whatever else I seem content to throw together week to week with little /no playtesting.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

MODO DE results are skewed because, as 13 is eager to point out, people don't play lategame decks because 25 minutes.



exactly why i'm NOT undefeated with esper.  I can outplay anyone with that deck.... but then i awkwardly have the win on the board and can't F6 quick enough for the last attack with my spirit tokens.... so many clicks....

seriously? 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

Good thing that WotC is making it even easier to access MTGO DE decklists, so that we can have some "decks to beat" threads up in the TO Center.

Oh, wait.... no they aren't. 


MaRo got asked about something similar today...

twistedlittleheart asked: Maro, can you please comment on the decision not to publish as many Daily and Premier event decklists? Adjusting to the meta game is a huge part of competitive MTG and this has been a real blow to a lot of players.

The problem we were having is that the metagame was getting solved too quickly. Players were crunching the numbers and playing the decks that eked out the extra 1 or 2% advantage. As a result, there was a decrease in the variety of decks being played.


We feel that Magic is better if the discovery is a little more organic and little less just putting numbers in a computer program. Note that we are still showing a lot of decklists so that players can have an idea of what decks are being played and can metagame, but we are making it tougher to crunch hard data.


Magic sets come out every three months. It’s important for the health and fun of the game that the all three months are as diverse as possible. I often talk about how it’s the role of a game designer to challenge the players, to not make it too easy. By giving out too much data, we were making it too easy and as such we were allowing the metagame to advance faster than was in the game’s best interest.


We could write articles the day the set comes out and give you all the data Development has collected, but we don’t because we want all of you to figure things out for yourself. Printing all the data was much like writing those articles. In this case, we feel less is more.


@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Hahahahahaha.

We could write articles the day the set comes out and give you all the data Development has collected, but we don’t because then you'd be playing some wonky-ass left field bull$&*# nobody's ever even heard of.





That said, I can appreciate the sentiment.  If the hive-mind has less to work with, then gosh, somebody might actually have to innovate.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Hahahahahaha.

We could write articles the day the set comes out and give you all the data Development has collected, but we don’t because then you'd be playing some wonky-ass left field bull$&*# nobody's ever even heard of.





That said, I can appreciate the sentiment.  If the hive-mind has less to work with, then gosh, somebody might actually have to innovate.


If by hive mind you mean people who create powerful decks really quickly then adjust to the meta regularly, then yeah, I agree. 

We could write articles the day the set comes out and give you all the data Development has collected, but we don’t because we want all of you to figure things out for yourself. Printing all the data was much like writing those articles. In this case, we feel less is more.




None of this really matters, since I can assure you that at least 90% of the "data" they have collected amounts to "play Thragtusk" har har har...


The problem we were having is that the metagame was getting solved too quickly. Players were crunching the numbers and playing the decks that eked out the extra 1 or 2% advantage. As a result, there was a decrease in the variety of decks being played.


Am I the only one who sees this as a total cop out for the influx of terrible design R&D have been churning out?


So the reason the meta goes stagnant is because the players have access to too much information huh.


Sounds about right. I mean, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that R&D keeps pumping out cards that are so good in comparison to everything else available that it is just outright stupid NOT to play them.....right....right? /end sarcasm

"I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night. Although I have taken the form of Gaius Caligula, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I am a God."
I think limiting the hive mind development is a good thing for all players; spikes, timmies, and johnnies. Spikes get to prey on random **** with strong decks, Johnnies can feel like they've got a chance to surprise people, and Timmies get to play whatever they want for fun without having Spike cramming stats down his throat about how wrong he is. Spike can still be right and Timmy can still have fun... and watch Spike rage when he rolls him with 'big guys.dec'.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

You will NEVER be able to shut off netdecking.

Cut off MODO results and people will use IRL tournament results.



I don't think anyone said that would happen. But by and large the most frequent and readily available aggregation of the largest player base shutting off their feed is a big deal.

Don't try to argue this with me, I administrate an entire industry's web traffic data and help with statistical analysis of said data. If we lost our largest source of the data our results would still be useful to draw conclusions from... but with all of the data our analysis of said data is almost never wrong.

We pull the MODO DEs which fire way more often than other events it will slow down the hive mind by making everyone stupider, so to speak. Drawing conclusions off of 5ks and PTQs alone will not get us to the answer as fast.

If wizards would turn off the feed on PTQs and just publish Pro Tour results.... that'd be huge. 

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I think it's fine that people had to get a tournament under their belts with new cards to figure out what end of the cradle stinks.

I think the problem started when the sets were spoiled before release events.  Call me old fashined, but I recall hearing about a new set called 'Alliances' and hearing it was going to be like Arabians.  The cards weren't dissected a few weeks in advance, they were done so on release day.  That was one of the most fun days I had when magic was still semi-new to me.  Gathered around where 30 people opened like 8 - 10 boxes total because that was all that was available and then flurry traded for an entire afternoon.  I remember some guy trading a Beta Word of Command for 4 Soldevi Diggers.

To get Mirage cards, you had to be one of the few that had a release event convention, or travelled to one.  In this case a few guys piled in a car from my LGS and went to Seattle to see the blink of that set before release.

This post isn't purely about nostalgia, but close, but the point is that WotC doesn't have to release spoilers as a marketting tool.

@ Niche,  What is the 'H'?  The Abyss