What NOT to put in an EDH deck

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I know there are plenty of suggestions as to what to put in an EDH deck, but I wanted to figure out a list of cards NOT to put in an EDH deck, and I am not talking about the common stuff (Single target damage, straight beaters). I am talking about cards that are too good, in a way. No legends on this list.

I would have to put Blightsteel Colossus on that list. Strong card, but too easy to Bribe. Often Game over when that happens
RPGtable username : RTiger
time stretch. Unfun, uninteractive, and we'll totally bone you if your opponent can abuse it (knowledge exploitation, redirect, wrexial the risen deep, memory plunder, ect)
Sorin Markov, his + ability is fine, but too weak to be useful. Both of his - abilities are 'that guy' moves. I guess that means Mindslaver would be bad as well.

Just because they are cheap moves, Serra Ascendant and Felidar Sovereign would also fit in the 'that guy' category.

Winter Orb &/or Stasis would be a bore for everyone else, and might shut your own deck down as well.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

Land destruction (moreso mass scale, but Sinkhole too probably)
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Blightsteel Colossus
Hokori, Dust Drinker

"That guy" cards in general. Those were just some of them I could think of off the top of my head.

If we go with Sorin for his - abilities then we'd have to go with Magister Sphinx too.
Lol, my hokori and sakashima decks wouldnt be
What's wrong with Ulamog?
I think he's qualifying Ulamog as land destruction. Which is fairly accurate, since unless they are playing a token deck or some heavy, heavy recursion, people will sac lands to Annhiliator before they sac creatures.

That being the case, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth should also be on his list. Maybe it's the LD plus Indestructible that he finds bad with Ulamog.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

This is a really tough question.

But most of the cards we found unfun were subsequently banned. Right now there isn't much in that vein that we avoid.

I guess cards that slow the game down like The winter orb effects. Mass LD is ok if it hits all players. And collective voyage... ruins games a lot of times.

But all of those have a place. Build multiple decks and you can branch out into the forbidden territory without it feeling tedious.

3DH4LIF3

This one may just be me, but I dislike infinite combos in EDH. I always feel lik, "Congratulations, you found a combo on the internet and stacked your deck with tutors to pull it off". It never feels like I was beat by a well designed deck, or by a good draw for them or bad draw for me.  Just beat by a cheap trick that I could have done just as easy. If we all built decks like that, we wouldn't even need to really play, just see who draws their tutors/combo first and then start over.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

It's the Indestructible on Ulamog that seals the deal. I've had numerous people complain to me about that as they hold their Wrath of God and glare angrily at me. Kozilek is at least vulnerable to removal. With all the ways to give dudes haste (I've tossed greaves on Eldrazi numerous times) as soon as they come into play, it makes them especially powerful and hard to deal with.
I do wonder why Contamination is legal.  It seems to serve no other purpose than to hose every nonblack deck.
I do wonder why Contamination is legal.  It seems to serve no other purpose than to hose every nonblack deck.



Same thing is true to a lesser degree for ancient color hose cards like Flashfire, Karma, Tsunami, and Conversion.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

I do wonder why Contamination is legal.  It seems to serve no other purpose than to hose every nonblack deck.



Maybe for the same reason Donating Celestial Dawn is legal. (Also a very dick move)

The thing about Contamination is that it has an upkeep cost. Sacrifice a creature. Even with that card on the table, there are still ways to generate nonblack mana.

The occasional extra turn is fine now and again, but taking six turns in a row is just a dick move.

I have to agree with the Ulamog. Its not so much the destroy perm and Annihilator as it is the indestructible. As a general rule, I dislike Indestructible paired with other effects. Just on its own, Indestructible is hard to deal with.

Likewise, Darksteel Forge is beyond painful to deal with. Outside of stealing it for yourself, there are only three cards (AFAIK) in all of magic that will remove it from the table!

Personally. I hate steal from library cards (Bribery, Knowledge exploitation, Jace, Architect of thought) These allow you to play cards outside your color, and usually at a greatly reduced cost!

RPGtable username : RTiger
Ullamog with Greaves should be illegal.  Indestructible, and untargetable?  I saw a guy win a 5 player game by getting that out early and annihilating everyone's board.  The other legendary Eldrazi aren't much fun wither, but hethe worst.  I also find the New Phyrexia praetors (with the possible exception of Urabrask) also suck the fun right out of games. 
Propaganda, Norn's Annex, Ghostly Prison and their ilk. They create bad, un-fun board states where no one wants to take any action. They can easy be replaced by more interactive cards that keep the game advancing.
I dislike mass land removal, it earns massive frown tech from my group.  Whether it is in the form of land conversion, as mentioned previously, or outright destruction it is the only thing that I think I truly hate in Commander.  I also think that cards that let you take extra turns should be banned (even though I have posted an X Turns in a Row deck) as I think it functionally removes players from the game in the same way as land removal.
Ullamog with Greaves should be illegal.  Indestructible, and untargetable?  I saw a guy win a 5 player game by getting that out early and annihilating everyone's board.  The other legendary Eldrazi aren't much fun wither, but hethe worst.  I also find the New Phyrexia praetors (with the possible exception of Urabrask) also suck the fun right out of games. 



I have an even worse Ulamog story I could share if you want more ammo against it. I was the guilty party and felt dirty and bad about winning that game.

I had Liliana of the Dark Realms chilling at 6 loyalty, ready to pop her ultimate with a bunch of swamps/ Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out. One of my opponents, who isn't very good at the game, played an enchantment that made it so creatures couldn't attack, preventing my other opponent from stopping me/Liliana. I popped her ultimate next turn and dropped Karn Liberated to exile that enchantment. Then I played a Solemn Simulacrum to ramp and Disciple of Bolas to draw me some cards. I drew into some beauty. Had Ulamog in hand already, drew into a Batterskull , Demonic Tutor , and a Swamp . I played the swamp as land for turn, tutored for Lightning Greaves and played it before passing turn. Next turn I draw into another swamp, play it, and then proceed to basically end the game. I had enough mana to hardcast Batterskull, hardcast Ulamog (destroying the better opponent's open mountain), equip Batterskull to Ulamog, equip greaves to Ulamog,  and then swing for the fences. The guy scooped because all he was left with after Karn and Ulamog said hello was a single mountain and mono-red can't stop an Ulamog with a Batterskull attached to it. We then convinced the other guy to scoop because the game was over really at that point. He may have lived a turn or two, but he wasn't going to be able to stop me. This is possibly the second worst thing I've done in EDH. I felt really bad about it afterwards.
I have mentioned before, but I have a vendetta against Bruna, light of alabaster. Now, I have no problem at all if bruna is a card in the deck. As a general however, things quickly go to broken if she isn't counterspelled or removed immediately, and even if you remove bruna, she can go back to being the exact same monster next turn repeatedly. It gets particularly bad when you put greaves on her immediately, then attack, adding Battle Mastery, Spirit mantle and Eldrazi Conscription from either your hand, field, or graveyard. Not fun at all.

It wouldn't be so bad if she didn't grab enchants from the grave. Her ability also bypasses Shroud and triggers when she attacks OR blocks. Thats my main reason for hating on Bruna. Not even Zur the enchanter can do that
RPGtable username : RTiger
Darksteel Forge[/c] is beyond painful to deal with. Outside of stealing it for yourself, there are only three cards (AFAIK) in all of magic that will remove it from the table!


Altar's Light
Devout Chaplain
Leonin Relic-Warder
Return to Dust
Revoke Existence

I also personally hate Iona, Shield of Emeria.

Still limits answers to Forge to blue, red, or white. A Green or black deck would be screwed with no way out.

Iona fits along with Celestial dawn, and gets about as bad as Painter's servant if someone is playing mono. 

Talking about Painter's Servant. Mycosynth Lattice does pretty much the exact same thing, plus makes the entire board prone to mass artifact removal.

I don't mind a board wipe, including lands, as long as it hits everyone equally.


EDIT: Well... someone could Memoricide it
RPGtable username : RTiger
I dislike mass land removal, it earns massive frown tech from my group.  Whether it is in the form of land conversion, as mentioned previously, or outright destruction it is the only thing that I think I truly hate in Commander.  I also think that cards that let you take extra turns should be banned (even though I have posted an X Turns in a Row deck) as I think it functionally removes players from the game in the same way as land removal.

Extra turns can be dealt with if all players agree to a limit on the number of turns in a row of 2, 3, or 4.
I'm actually fine with just about everything that people are bitching about in this thread:  Ulamog, Bruna, etc.  I do hate mass LD, though.  The only time I ran mass land destruction was a Commander tournament.  I then used Faith's Reward to get them all back and cruise to victory.  I'd never do that in a regular game, though.

Also, players need to run more exile effects to deal with stuff like Eldrazi and other indestructible/hard-to-kill dudes.  If you're in the proper colors, stuff like Unmake, Oblivion Ring, Detention Sphere, Red Sun's Zenith and Kumano, Master Yamabushi are pretty good.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

A Green or black deck would be screwed with no way out.



Splinter

Molder Slug

Tribute to the Wild

I admit, none of these are GREAT answers but at least green gets SOMETHING.....poor black.

Deglamer

Black has Ashes to Ashes for indestructible creatures.  Then stuff like Liliana of the Veil's ultimate, Braids, Cabal Minion (banned as a general but legal in the deck), Choice of Damnations.  Those give them a choice what to sacrifice, but it's usually not an easy choice.
For Darksteel Forge:

Rebuild
Hurkyl's Recall
    
I think you should play whatever you want to, in your commander deck. I'd stay clear of the banlist. But beyond that play what you want. The important thing is actually to match the decks in your area. If the folks you play with play just for kicks...then play just for kicks. If your group likes enormous plays and huge board swings: Resulting in the biggest most obscene plays do it.

Whenever something impressive happens, that's when magic memories are made.

I severely disagree with this attitude about being a care bear while playing Commander. I think the real problem is timing. Learn the timing of when to play the powerful cards. Don't play them at an early stage to shut the rest of the group down. Every deck has a weakness, pack plenty of answers and quit qq'ing.
I think you should play whatever you want to, in your commander deck. I'd stay clear of the banlist. But beyond that play what you want. The important thing is actually to match the decks in your area. If the folks you play with play just for kicks...then play just for kicks. If your group likes enormous plays and huge board swings: Resulting in the biggest most obscene plays do it.

Whenever something impressive happens, that's when magic memories are made.

I severely disagree with this attitude about being a care bear while playing Commander. I think the real problem is timing. Learn the timing of when to play the powerful cards. Don't play them at an early stage to shut the rest of the group down. Every deck has a weakness, pack plenty of answers and quit qq'ing.

Thank you!  

STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin

The EDH Decks - White Artifact Ramp, Avacyn, Angel of Hope Blue Time Stretch, Azami, Lady of Scrolls Black Repeatable Recursion, Balthor the Defiled Red Goblin Gimmicks, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Green Super Ramp, Azusa, Lost but Seeking

Most Overpoweredly Annoying Cards:
Time Stretch
Tooth and Nail
Bribery
Mana Crypt
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Sunder
Armageddon
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Land Tax
Mind Over Matter
Omniscience
Darksteel Forge
Back to Basics
Contamination
Storm Herd
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Aura Shards
Memory Jar
Lurking Predators
Consecrated Sphinx
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Moat
Mystic Remora
Kuro, Pitlord
Reanimate

Stupid Cards
Triskelion
Mana Echoes
Warp World
Serra Ascendant
Felidar Sovereign
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
Hermit Druid
Sorin Markov

I could go on for hours... I guess the point is there are so many OP/stupid cards that the best thing that you can do is keep the ban list as small as possible.  Amongst your play group you can outlaw cards if you please.



Besides Bribery, I got no problem with the cards on that list.
RPGtable username : RTiger
Jace the mind sculptor is not overly powerful in edh.

3DH4LIF3

Most Overpoweredly Annoying Cards:
Time Stretch
Tooth and Nail
Bribery
Mana Crypt
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Sunder
Armageddon
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Land Tax
Mind Over Matter
Omniscience
Darksteel Forge
Back to Basics
Contamination
Storm Herd
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Aura Shards
Memory Jar
Lurking Predators
Consecrated Sphinx
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Moat
Mystic Remora
Kuro, Pitlord
Reanimate

Stupid Cards
Triskelion
Mana Echoes
Warp World
Serra Ascendant
Felidar Sovereign
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
Hermit Druid
Sorin Markov

I could go on for hours... I guess the point is there are so many OP/stupid cards that the best thing that you can do is keep the ban list as small as possible.  Amongst your play group you can outlaw cards if you please.




I really don't think EDH is the format for you. You might want to go play modern or just casual in general. You obviously don't understand the idea behind the format, or how to format rules (100 card, singleton, 40 life points, ect.) help to alter the format to make many things not quite as powerful.

This goes for a few others in this thread as well. You people really need to either work on your deck building to be able to better counter some of these things you consider "to good" or just find another format. 
Well, there are some that call them "Too good" and there are some cards that would be better decribed as "Bitch to deal with" The second category is exactly what EDH is all about, dealing with cards that in a normal game would be a bitch to deal with. Even within the format, everyone seems to have particular cards that they hate, but that is the nature of the game. Listing one or two cards you hate isn't bad, but making a list of 40 EDH staple cards?

Go play another format!

Anyway, back on topic, making a large list of staple cards, or a list of non EDH suited cards isn't what this is about. It is about picking particular cards that might be strong, but can easily flip the tide against you as well. Control, steal, counter, removal, Board wipe. These are the norm in the majority of EDH games.

 
RPGtable username : RTiger
So....EDH should be vanilla-creatures and spells only printed in common rarity? Sounds like a dragging-for-hours-without-fun time! And then nobody would complain! (No decent commons may be used, such as Counterspell and Disintegrate, though...someone may lose a game and nobody wants to lose a game in which somebody has to win eventually! Especially if they lose because an opponent played a card that affected them!)

Really, some cards are not fun to play against, and I bet you all run something that your opponents don't like to see because it might lead you to victory. What do you expect to happen when you play? I expect to win based on cards I use legally, not by my simple desire to not lose, eventually, by waiting for nothing to happen and we all concede that the game is a draw....
If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I still believe I'm right. Think of it as religion. dubito ergo sum.

Any praetor AS A GENERAL. You're setting yourself out as "that guy" when you do this. If you have Vorinclex or Jin-Gitaxias tucked away in your deck, it's not nearly as griefy.


Iona or Kaalia AS A GENERAL. Same thing. Kaalia isn't so bad on her own, but I can't help but think you're going to be playing Iona.


On the flip side, things not to put in an EDH deck because they're the new Wood Elemental:


Lightning Bolt and variants. LOL You have 40 life, so "hit for 20 before your opponent does" is not an option. On the other hand, something like Earthquake or even Pyroclasm has its uses.


Mental Misstep. Same problem. Plus, at 2-3 mana, you get many better counters.


Force of Will. Notice a pattern here? You're paying in card advantage when really or even should be available to you.


Scour, Quash, Sowing Salts, Surgical Extraction, etc. These three in the cycle will only exile one card. You want one that can theoretically target basic lands, such as Splinter (with Liquimetal Coating) or Eradicate (with Animate Land).


Pack Hunt, Mishra, Artificer Prodigy, Thrumming Stone, Squadron Hawk. And the "one-of" rule automatically makes these guys bad.


Break Open, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Shelkin Brownie, Ertai's Trickery: The "I hose a block mechanic and do nothing else" crowd.

Ajani's Mantra: Unless you have a lot of lifegain triggers, most lifegain becomes irrelevant.

139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Force of will is highly playable in edh.

3DH4LIF3

Cant edit previous post...

Wanted to add that I dislike including a card for the sake of hosing one particular deck in your meta.

3DH4LIF3

You forget you can play Force of will even before you have the mana for a normal counterspell.
RPGtable username : RTiger
Cant edit previous post... Wanted to add that I dislike including a card for the sake of hosing one particular deck in your meta.



You mean people should not adjust to the best deck to make them think about always playing the same car/way? I disagree.
I end up having to do slight alterations to my deck at times, simply so I can include a card or two to hose a particular deck. Just like I added Lignify, Song of Serenity, Spell Crumple, and Back to Nature in my U/G just to deal with Bruna, light of alabaster. I even ended up making a whole new deck, for no reason other then to deal with that one deck
RPGtable username : RTiger
@mrhblue- no. adapt your deck to a meta, but playing a card just to hose a single deck shouldn't be necessary. note my actual wording... Your rephrase is a strawman.

I wish I could think of an example... Oh! Memoricide to hose a relentless rats deck. Doooshbag move. Maelstrom pulse or detention sphere or echoing truth... All have legitimate other uses in addition to combating the terror that is an OP Rat deck.

3DH4LIF3

On occasion, I do Slaughter games Darksteel forge or bribery, simply cause it is a card I never want to hit the table. There are plenty of other targets I can choose with that.

Having a Zedru give Celestial Dawn to a non white deck is just being a jerk, putting it mildly. 

Granted, my deck does run Contamination. But that is a card with the possibility of hosing every deck on the field, including your own unless your mono black. 
RPGtable username : RTiger
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