Storm Pillar questions

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I have a question about the spell "Storm Pillar". I had an incident where a storm pillar was put out and a dominated creature walked around the pillar taking a multitude of damage. Now I don't really care about too many broken abilities but that seemed a bit much for an at will power. I read the wording on it, but I figured once a creature has taken damage once that round from it on its turn it was done taking damage. Then I realized the spell did not have the "wall" keyword so it does not apply. So I need a little bit more clarification on this.
Wall keyword wouldn't matter, Walls don't have a rule that makes them one/turn either. Tons of Walls do iterative damage.

Storm Pillar can do a ton of damage, if you trigger it multiple times. Domination is a great way of doing that.
Wall keyword wouldn't matter


Theres no such thing as a 'Wall' keyword in a power. Theres a wall target line where you draw the effect on continuous squares but theres nothing that would specific make 'Wall' a tag like 'Psychic' or 'Rattling'. Closest thing would be conjuration but thats pretty general since wall conjurations always have details as to how they interact with the battlegrid.

Walls don't have a rule that makes them one/turn either. Tons of Walls do iterative damage.

And actually yes they do. In there infinite wisdom they finally recognized how broken a buncha stacked 'Wall' style powers can be so they layed a bunch of hard nerfs in the errata. They choose to do it on a power by power basis but basically any wall that does damage is suppose to have (a creature can take this damage only once per turn) tacked onto it.

Per www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateCompiled...

Really what he's getting on about is that the Storm Pillar is essentially a 1 square wall/conjuration and its easily abusable by players who DMs allow them to 'creatively interpretate the wording' rather then go by the intended spirit of the power. Its 'suppose' to be a deterant or an obstacle that is placed between the wizard and the enemies of choice. The murky way its worded leaves open the interpretation that every single square the enemy enters triggers its effect. If nothing else a wise DM might clarify the wording to include 'Willingly enters an adjacent square' to force an enemy choice to whether or not its worth taking the hit 3 times or whatever.

Essentially its another cheap way to abuse a short option list when the dimensions of an encounter don't allow a way 'around' the conjuration. This is the same sort of cheese that got walls nerfed.
I was using "keyword" in a not strict sense, but true, technically Wall is not a keyword. But it still doesn't have any rules making them one/turn.

You're just flatly wrong. There is no general rule about one/turn damage. Anywhere. They changed a number of powers, but that is specific to those powers, not a general rule. Which was idiotic, for a variety of reasons, but that is another story.

If you have an opinion about what the rules ought to be, you're in the wrong forum. This is a forum for what the rules actually are. And, by the actual rules, the damage happens each square. 
You're just flatly wrong. There is no general rule about one/turn damage. Anywhere. They changed a number of powers, but that is specific to those powers, not a general rule. Which was idiotic, for a variety of reasons, but that is another story.


I try to avoid being crude but I did link the errata. They changed 'every single power' that has damage and the words 'Wall' 'Barrier' and 'Cage' to include the supplement (a creature can take this damage only once per turn).

Its not a general rule true, and its a legal option as written, but much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.
much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.

Let me help you out here. "Cheese" is a matter of opinion, not a fact. So calling something "cheese" is an expression of an opinion, not of a rule. So to say that a "cheese" detracts from the game is basically tantamount to saying "anything I personally dislike detracts from the game" which is a non-starter, everyone dislikes different things (and in many cases, people dislike things for reasons primarily based on an ignorance of the system math, so their dislike is purely irrational). Now this is the rules forum. We discuss rules here. Not opinions about the rules, not opinions about the game. If you want to do the latter, and it is obvious you do, I'd encourage you to post in a forum where it is a relevant topic of discusion.
You're just flatly wrong. There is no general rule about one/turn damage. Anywhere. They changed a number of powers, but that is specific to those powers, not a general rule. Which was idiotic, for a variety of reasons, but that is another story.


I try to avoid being crude but I did link the errata. They changed 'every single power' that has damage and the words 'Wall' 'Barrier' and 'Cage' to include the supplement (a creature can take this damage only once per turn).

Its not a general rule true, and its a legal option as written, but much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.


Just for the record, no, they didn't change every single power, they missed quite a few.
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much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.

Let me help you out here. "Cheese" is a matter of opinion, not a fact. So calling something "cheese" is an expression of an opinion, not of a rule. So to say that a "cheese" detracts from the game is basically tantamount to saying "anything I personally dislike detracts from the game" which is a non-starter, everyone dislikes different things (and in many cases, people dislike things for reasons primarily based on an ignorance of the system math, so their dislike is purely irrational). Now this is the rules forum. We discuss rules here. Not opinions about the rules, not opinions about the game. If you want to do the latter, and it is obvious you do, I'd encourage you to post in a forum where it is a relevant topic of discusion.

Not exactly, but I get your point. Alot of times WOTC will Erratta something because as you say the "Math" of the system is to much or an effect is very unbalancing. I have seen a  power get downgarded for all the right reasons or all the wrong reasons. but its a matter of opinion. I was just curious about the spell because 87 points of damage was bit much for my liking for an at will to do in one turn on a monster. All because he walked by the pillar several times. I allowed it and didn't fuss about it. I just wanted a little bit more clarity that I wasn't overreacting. I want to make sure it wasn't a case of "Reading the rules and written" versus "Reading the Rules as Intended".
Basically Storm Pillar was updated to say it affect a target that move “on its turn” instead of “willingly” this to prevent Forced Movement. This result in Dominated target still taking damage by the Pillar when being ping-ponged in.


Storm Pillar Page 101: In the third sentence of the Effect line, add “on its turn” after “adjacent to the pillar.” The intent is that the pillar provides a controlling effect on the battlefield, and this prevents it from being used in conjunction with forced movement to deal a disproportionate amount of damage.


 
I have a question about the spell "Storm Pillar". I had an incident where a storm pillar was put out and a dominated creature walked around the pillar taking a multitude of damage. Now I don't really care about too many broken abilities but that seemed a bit much for an at will power. I read the wording on it, but I figured once a creature has taken damage once that round from it on its turn it was done taking damage. Then I realized the spell did not have the "wall" keyword so it does not apply. So I need a little bit more clarification on this.

It's not at-will.  Dominate is very rare.

Unless your talking about storm-pillar.  But that's really no difference then telling the dominated to jump off a cliff, or run past a group of people giving everyone an oppertunity attack.  Or running though 5 or 6 different campfires.


Most "zones" and zone like things have been errated to only deal damage 1/turn.

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Basically Storm Pillar was updated to say it affect a target that move “on its turn” instead of “willingly” this to prevent Forced Movement. This result in Dominated target still taking damage by the Pillar when being ping-ponged in.


Storm Pillar Page 101: In the third sentence of the Effect line, add “on its turn” after “adjacent to the pillar.” The intent is that the pillar provides a controlling effect on the battlefield, and this prevents it from being used in conjunction with forced movement to deal a disproportionate amount of damage.


 

So your basically saying damage is just one time on it turns even while dominated?
There was nothing in his comment that even implied 1/turn ... he's saying that the Monster either has to be stupid, dominated, or a PC using a triggered action, in order for Storm Pillar to deal a disproportionate amount of damage.
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Well, OP mentioned 1/turn ("I figured once a creature has taken damage once that round from it on its turn it was done taking damage. ")

 

I feel compelled to point out that if SP damage is limited to 1/turn by a house rule, then it more-or-less turns this Power into an almost worthless option (d6+INT *iff* enemies are either dominated or are bottlenecked behind it and must voluntarily run through), especially in contrast to the other very good Wizard AWs. Seriously, it does zero(0) damage upon casting, and while you can end up in a jackpot if you get dominated into doing laps around it, the incremental damage is low (so resist lightning can help a lot), and distance from the pillar reduces the number of times hit (as you still have to move toward the pillar).

 

That said, it is sort of an odd AW power, in that it's so weak unless/until it becomes party optimized with domination and melee types postured to hand out OAs while the dominee dances in the zone.

 

I'm not sure you understood how it works..

[minor] place Quickened Spellcasting'd Storm Pillar next to focus target

[standard] random dominate -> run action on enemy's turn in circles around it

How is this a jackpot? It's no problem to set this up. And resistances are a pointless argument, as well, cause this argument applies to EVERYTHING. Also, it's a damage roll and adds nearly all damage mods.

The only drawback is, that Wizards typically have better things to do, than stacking crazy damage mods and that this abuse is pretty lackluster pre-epic.

Note, that Storm Pillar is also very strong to "seal" narrow entrances vs melees for a round. 

 

And most important: Don't use stuff like that, cause arms race with DM = you lose. 

pinkisthenewred wrote:

I'm not sure you understood how it works..

[minor] place Quickened Spellcasting'd Storm Pillar next to focus target

[standard] random dominate -> run action on enemy's turn in circles around it

How is this a jackpot? It's no problem to set this up. And resistances are a pointless argument, as well, cause this argument applies to EVERYTHING. Also, it's a damage roll and adds nearly all damage mods.

The only drawback is, that Wizards typically have better things to do, than stacking crazy damage mods and that this abuse is pretty lackluster pre-epic.

Note, that Storm Pillar is also very strong to "seal" narrow entrances vs melees for a round. 

 

And most important: Don't use stuff like that, cause arms race with DM = you lose. 

 

Thanks for the informative reply. 

 

I do, however, totally understand how it works. And combined with - in specific - Prismatic Spray/Royal Command of Asmodeus - it can rack up some utterly sick damage totals. But, generally speaking, dominate is supposed to be powerful. And using it to run around the SP requires 2 standard actions (SP and dominate), one of which is a dominate power, to set up - why shouldn't a wizard be rewarded for setting that up? My point about allies is that if you really want to maximize it, you use that "run action" to include squares that fetch OAs to add more damage to the SP damage. Anyway, I guess since you can summon a succubus at level 9, it's possible to take advantage of this at an earlier level than I'd thought before. And I agree that allowing d6+INT multiple times per turn probably makes the Succubus/Storm Pillar combination too painful for level 9s, even if summoning the succubus makes the setup take 3 Standard Actions instead of just 2.

 

I still don't see how the proposed 1/turn interpretation of Storm Pillar is useful enough to "seal" an entrace if it's limited to d6+INT[+other bonuses] 1 time/turn, and this only in cases where a given 3x3 set of squares is passed through. The same wizard could be dropping 3x3 areas of the same damage every round (possibly enlarged for 5x5 albeit at lesser damage) and either have them heavily feated (say Freezing Burst and all the stuff you can add to cold, Scorching Burst with some fire boosts, Stone Blood with World Serpent's Grasp which slows things followed up by a knockdown), and even enlarged if you're primarily looking for control instead of damage. If I'm not understanding something, it's that I may not be understanding how frequently such situations come up in your adventures, but I have a difficult time imaginging Storm Pillar (house ruled to be 1/turn) being something a wizard would select. I'd be curious to hear about people who play with this house rule (1/turn) and still regularly take SP for an AW power. 

 

I definitely agree with that last statement!

 

1. As i wrote above, using Storm Pillar makes only sense in epic, with Quickened Spellcasting. You don't want to waste a standard action on that stuff as a Wiz. And even then it's lackluster on a controller that doesn't have sky high damage mods. And even then the arms race thing still applies. 

2. Don't know where you have that 1/turn thing from, but that's not the case here. Storm Pillar wasn't affected by that nerf. And why do you discuss house rules? Oo

 

 

 

 

Disregarding the arms race thing and other stuff that makes it not too practical, just theorycrafting: 

If you wanted to setup for OAs in addition, there's always teamwork with your movement enabling leader. For example this build with HElf instead of Warforged, to poach Storm Pillar, in combination with a dominating controller, would clear the field pretty fast, due to hilarious damage mods. 

HElf Invoker|Cleric/Arti or Invoker|Arti, each with Morninglord and Radiant One would even include all pieces to max out that combo on its own: 1. Striker level damage mods, 2. AoE dominate, 3. movement enabling.

 

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