Krenko/Goblin Deck: Blue Support?

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In past experiences, and much to my dismay, people who play at FNM are not stupid. When I have (unsuccessuly) attempted to play Goblin decks in the past, Krenko has been the subject of numerous Murders, Searing Spears, Essence Scatters, and once even subjected to an attack via Odric's effect. So, needless to say, my Goblin deck was scrapped. Until very recently, when I was glancing through my Rares, and realized that I had four Krenko's doing nothing. So this time around, I had an idea that I need feedback from in order to see if it's even worth my time, and that is a Goblin Deck, with Blue support. I have one key reasons for doing this: There is a plentiful amount of cards in standard play right now that have potential to protect Krenko's  vulnerable behind as target of Murders, Unsummons, Searing Spears, etc, such as Negate, Cancel, and  that could save him in the long run. Other good Blue cards that I would include would mostly consist of walls (Fog Banks, Hover Barrier, Kraken Hatchling (Not a wall, but 1 for a 0/4? Yes.))

Thoughts / recomendations to make this Blue/Red Krenko deck happen? 
Krendo really doesn't have much to support him right now, Goblins took a serious hit with rotation, so you're not really going to get much bang out of him, even if you have a Fervor in plan and drop him turn 4/5 and immediately use his ability.

And if you're looking to be R/U Control, you have better things to do with your mana and creature space than Krenko.  In that kind of deck, Talrand, Sky Summoner would give you value for what you're doing anyway (playing spells).
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In past experiences, and much to my dismay, people who play at FNM are not stupid. When I have (unsuccessuly) attempted to play Goblin decks in the past, Krenko has been the subject of numerous Murders, Searing Spears, Essence Scatters, and once even subjected to an attack via Odric's effect. So, needless to say, my Goblin deck was scrapped. Until very recently, when I was glancing through my Rares, and realized that I had four Krenko's doing nothing. So this time around, I had an idea that I need feedback from in order to see if it's even worth my time, and that is a Goblin Deck, with Blue support. I have one key reasons for doing this: There is a plentiful amount of cards in standard play right now that have potential to protect Krenko's  vulnerable behind as target of Murders, Unsummons, Searing Spears, etc, such as Negate, Cancel, and  that could save him in the long run. Other good Blue cards that I would include would mostly consist of walls (Fog Banks, Hover Barrier, Kraken Hatchling (Not a wall, but 1 for a 0/4? Yes.))

Thoughts / recomendations to make this Blue/Red Krenko deck happen? 



Hey Zugh. I saw Travis Woo lose on stream (although it was with his Epic Experiment deck) to a Goblin player splashing blue. They were running Guttersnipe, Goblin Electromancer, Krenko, Mob Boss, Krenko's Command, Izzet Charm, Syncopate, etc.

With that said, don't expect to take it to do well at anything more competitive than an FNM. Also, don't run walls. And buy Tamiyo, the Moon Sage if you can afford her.
I like Krenko. You just can't build your deck entirely around him, because he is rather fragile.

Using Krekno's Command and the 5-drop goblin token maker along with Guttersniple and Electromancer is probably all the goblins you want/need. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Because the ultimate determinant of a deck's power is whether or not it can beat the meta-dominating deck that is epic experiment.

And tamiyo, a 5 cmc planeswalker, in an aggressive red deck?

Seems legit. 



The Krenko deck isn't aggro. Its a wonky, grindy spell based deck that tries to get Guttersnipe to do a lot of work.

Also, its fun. Someone at my recent FNM had a bad build of it, but BOY IS IT FUN TO HAVE A LOTTA GOBBOS 

(at)MrEnglish22

Oh, you mean islandsesque combo decks, not goblin aggro.

Yeah, those don't want tamiyo either.  She doesn't do anything for the combo and she's pretty slow. 



Yeah, islandesque combo.

And I agree about Tamiyo, I just wanted to clear up the confusion. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Because the ultimate determinant of a deck's power is whether or not it can beat the meta-dominating deck that is epic experiment.

And tamiyo, a 5 cmc planeswalker, in an aggressive red deck?

Seems legit. 



Tamiyo will allow you to survive while you grind them down, and her ult nearly constitutes a win condition. I never said at any point that U/R with Goblin Electromancer and Guttersnipe is an aggro deck - the OP was talking about using WALLS ffs - if you came away with the impression that we are talking about aggro, then your critical reading skills are sorely lacking.

Furthermore, Woo has stated that his EE deck is capable of beating top decks, but he would play ramp in a serious setting. This sort of gimmicky deck falls into the same category. It's for people who want to ake lots of tokens, play lots of removal and counters, and finish with reach - not people looking to win a PTQ. I never asserted that U/R Goblins was "meta-dominating"; once again, if you think that I claimed anything of the sort, than you either didn't read my post, or are a total moron - or both.
I don't see Krenko, Mob Boss as having build-around-me potential in the current Standard. However, he does look very nice as a 1- or 2-of in a deck or sideboard with 3-4x Goblin Electromancers and Guttersnipes. Playing Krenko's Command may or may not be worth it; personally I would rather have more versatile instant spells in its place--a convenient counterspell is going to do more for your Krenko than some acceleration or chump blockers. Krenko certainly gives you something to do while holding back with untapped mana and a hand full of durdley things and counterspells, and he is not useless alone, if it comes down to that.

I'm going to maindeck 1 or 2 and try it out.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Not sure if you know this, but there's this card called Arms Dealer.... with that and Krenko out, you can play the low price of tapping your krenko and paying his mana cost to kill an entire Thragtusk.

I feel the relevance of this would be much higher if we had other good Goblins. Or just a good red-base shell. 

Wait. I got it. Pack Rat and Krenko!!!! ITS AMAZING!!! CALL ISLANDS!!! GET THE TIBALT BEACON!!!! 

(at)MrEnglish22

Not sure if you know this, but there's this card called Arms Dealer.... with that and Krenko out, you can play the low price of tapping your krenko and paying his mana cost to kill an entire Thragtusk.

I feel the relevance of this would be much higher if we had other good Goblins. Or just a good red-base shell. 

Wait. I got it. Pack Rat and Krenko!!!! ITS AMAZING!!! CALL ISLANDS!!! GET THE TIBALT BEACON!!!! 


Arms Dealer is a thing, but like you said, it just isn't viable without more relevant goblin/red cards.

Your example: Hi i'm playing mono red and you just cast thragtusk oh wow 5 life k now ima tap krenko and pay ALL (or most) the mana to kill it... sooo now i have a tapped 3/3 and a 1/1 that i dont really want to die... and im tapped out... and you are up 5 life. and i am playing mono red. /scoop

Of course T1 Arsonist and T2 Mogg Flunkies/Krenko's Command means Krenko has more babies, but even then I feel Arms Dealer is just too slow and there isn't enough support for him.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Not sure if you know this, but there's this card called Arms Dealer.... with that and Krenko out, you can play the low price of tapping your krenko and paying his mana cost to kill an entire Thragtusk.

I feel the relevance of this would be much higher if we had other good Goblins. Or just a good red-base shell. 

Wait. I got it. Pack Rat and Krenko!!!! ITS AMAZING!!! CALL ISLANDS!!! GET THE TIBALT BEACON!!!! 


Arms Dealer is a thing, but like you said, it just isn't viable without more relevant goblin/red cards.

Your example: Hi i'm playing mono red and you just cast thragtusk oh wow 5 life k now ima tap krenko and pay ALL (or most) the mana to kill it... sooo now i have a tapped 3/3 and a 1/1 that i dont really want to die... and im tapped out... and you are up 5 life. and i am playing mono red. /scoop

Of course T1 Arsonist and T2 Mogg Flunkies/Krenko's Command means Krenko has more babies, but even then I feel Arms Dealer is just too slow and there isn't enough support for him.



Not even close to the situation I had in mind. Its more like this:
T1: Mountain (maybe a Faithless Looting or burn spell)
T2: Mountain, Removal Spell if needed, maybe Steam Vents -> Goblin Electromancer
T3 Mountain, Arms Dealer
T4: Land Krenko
T5: Land, tap Krenko, kill off the thragtusk, you have 3 mana open with the option to kill the Beast token, not that you need to
T6: Didn't kill my Krenko? Cool, lets make some more tokens at instant speed, and have the option to kill your dudes.

You shouldn't put yourself into the mindtrap that "red = aggro," because that's exactly what you are doing. That five life isn't that relevant if you aren't trying to kill them on T5. It also isn't "Hi I'm playing mono red." Stop being so level 1 and open your mind a bit.

Hell, you don't really even NEED more goblins out than Arms Dealer + Krenko, and you can take over the entire board. It worked in Draft against rather fast decks (decks that could kill as early as T5 or T6)

(at)MrEnglish22

Not sure if you know this, but there's this card called Arms Dealer.... with that and Krenko out, you can play the low price of tapping your krenko and paying his mana cost to kill an entire Thragtusk.

I feel the relevance of this would be much higher if we had other good Goblins. Or just a good red-base shell. 

Wait. I got it. Pack Rat and Krenko!!!! ITS AMAZING!!! CALL ISLANDS!!! GET THE TIBALT BEACON!!!! 


Arms Dealer is a thing, but like you said, it just isn't viable without more relevant goblin/red cards.

Your example: Hi i'm playing mono red and you just cast thragtusk oh wow 5 life k now ima tap krenko and pay ALL (or most) the mana to kill it... sooo now i have a tapped 3/3 and a 1/1 that i dont really want to die... and im tapped out... and you are up 5 life. and i am playing mono red. /scoop

Of course T1 Arsonist and T2 Mogg Flunkies/Krenko's Command means Krenko has more babies, but even then I feel Arms Dealer is just too slow and there isn't enough support for him.



Not even close to the situation I had in mind. Its more like this:
T1: Mountain (maybe a Faithless Looting or burn spell)
T2: Mountain, Removal Spell if needed, maybe Steam Vents -> Goblin Electromancer
T3 Mountain, Arms Dealer
T4: Land Krenko
T5: Land, tap Krenko, kill off the thragtusk, you have 3 mana open with the option to kill the Beast token, not that you need to
T6: Didn't kill my Krenko? Cool, lets make some more tokens at instant speed, and have the option to kill your dudes.

You shouldn't put yourself into the mindtrap that "red = aggro," because that's exactly what you are doing. That five life isn't that relevant if you aren't trying to kill them on T5. It also isn't "Hi I'm playing mono red." Stop being so level 1 and open your mind a bit.

Hell, you don't really even NEED more goblins out than Arms Dealer + Krenko, and you can take over the entire board. It worked in Draft against rather fast decks (decks that could kill as early as T5 or T6)


Highlighted the more ridiculous bits.

0. Constructed != Goldfishing, Limited. I don't even know why you are using cards' limited performance to support constructed viability. 
1. Not sure if you realize this, but removal happens to be scarce in Limited. Limited is incredibly inconsistent. Arms Dealer was/is good in limited because he can be a source of recurring removal, or he can be a somewhat limited single removal spell that can also stop an attacker--both of which are very good in that format. You don't play him because he is a goblin, you play him because he is efficient removal. Krenko is likewise good because of the near lack of mass-removal in limited. If he or your life total isn't answered, you have a pretty clear path to victory. 
2. A single mass removal spell completely shuts down your gameplan. Or spot removal on Krenko, even. Guess what? There are plenty of playable board sweepers in Standard.
3. We're talking Thragtusk here. Lifegain is absolutely relevant for a burny/beatdowny red deck--you can't just brush it off.
4. How many monored/goblins/Krenko decks have a consistently successful gameplan beyond turn 5+?

Level 1 indeed.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Your post had zero things that actually mattered, beyond saying that constructed isn't the same as limited.
Obviously you are going to have to worry about your opponent, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to have a game plan. I'm ashamed that I even have to state that.
YOU MEAN THAT CREATURES CAN DIE!?!? DEAR GOD!!! I GUESS WE SHOULD JUST STOP PLAYING CREATURES!!!!

 Once again, this isn't going to be your average mono-red deck. Read my damn posts.

There are plenty of decks that can win through the 5 life of a Thragtusk.

You are such a sheep. I'm not even sure why I am responding to your posts. If you're trying to troll, then at least do it in an enjoyable way like the rest of us.

Krenko is a must-answer threat, which is what you want. If it gets answered, that shouldn't be the end of your deck. 

(at)MrEnglish22

In all reality, Krenko is not a finisher for the Goblin style deck. The Finisher for a Goblin deck is Burn at the Stake, which it achieves by dropping masses of cheap goblins and goblin tokens. Krenko can add to this plan, and this plan may not even be needed if you have Trumpet Blast and enough groundpounders, but the Goblin deck is all about getting 7 fragile creatures, and taping each of them for a lightning bolt.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
Krenko is very much a red pack-rat: Unanswered, it will win the game on its own.

I agree that Burn at the Stake should be your primary win-con, though that shouldn't mean you should ignore the inherint power of Krenko. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Although, honestly, I don't like Krenko. Yes, he does what a Goblin deck wants it to do... usually a turn too late. If I was on the UR plan, I'd rather just use Electromancer to pop out Goblin Rally a turn earlier. Same cost, more goblins now, which is always what a Goblin deck wants.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
Krenko is very much a red pack-rat: Unanswered, it will win the game on its own.

I agree that Burn at the Stake should be your primary win-con, though that shouldn't mean you should ignore the inherint power of Krenko. 


You do realise you are posting in the Standard board, right? This topic has literally nothing to do with limited, which is what you are basing all your claims off of. Pack Rat is really good in limited; so is Krenko. Wonderful. I get it.

Pack Rat is NOT that good in constructed. Neither is Krenko. Limited != Constructed. Apples and Oranges. Literally any creature in constructed "will win the game on its own" in a timely manner if it is unanswered. Geist of Saint Traft wins on turn 7 if left alone. Delver wins turn 8 if flipped turn 2. Krenko wins on turn 9. Krenko, however, is extremely fragile and slow, dealing by far most of his damage on turn 8 and 9.

YOU MEAN THAT CREATURES CAN DIE!?!? DEAR GOD!!! I GUESS WE SHOULD JUST STOP PLAYING CREATURES!!!!


Surprise: some cards in Magic are actually bad compared to others. Krenko is one of these. Extrapolating based on Krenko alone is just ignorant.

Krenko is fine. But he's not an underplayed, format-warping bomb--he's not where you want to be with a 4-5 CMC finisher.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Sheep detected. Ending replies.

(at)MrEnglish22

Now I'm going to cop out while preserving my ego, lest I screw up even more.


Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Now I'm going to cop out while preserving my ego, lest I screw up even more.





All I hear is "baaa baaa baaa"


I gotta get me some popcorn, this ****'s getting good.

Weisse doesn't understand that the decks discussed in this thread aren't all-in aggro decks, Jman doesn't get the concept of interaction.




I aim to please. And entertain.
I get that the opponent can interact with me, but if I lose because the opp kills one dude, my deck isn't good. And it isn't like EE is high on the interaction scale, either. 
 

(at)MrEnglish22

Krenko needs a Goblin Chieftain or at least a Goblin warchief.  Some creature that costs 3 or less and gives all you creatures haste (for the tokens as much as Krenko). Otherwise, he's too slow, imo.  I like fervor, but I think it just doesn't do enough.  Maybe if it had another effect, something like goblin war drums or orcish oriflamme

Edit:  I want fervor at 1RR with one of those abilities.  I'd play it. 
the decks discussed in this thread aren't all-in aggro decks



This.

This.

This.

You're looking to stall (and chip away at your opponent with Guttersnipe) until you can throw out your big combo ( Burn at the Stake ) or whatever else. Also, I think that Chandra, the Firebrand could have a place here, but she just seems so damn gimmicky to me. I really wish she was just a little bit better - maybe for a measly 1dmg, she could get +2 to her loyalty?        



I gotta get me some popcorn, this ****'s getting good.

Weisse doesn't understand that the decks discussed in this thread aren't all-in aggro decks,  Jman doesn't get the concept of interaction.


I'm not arguing that at all.  Catowner needs to get off his high seat. I understand that UR Goblins/etc isn't an all-in aggro deck. My stance is that you don't want to MB Krenko in that deck because there are much better things to do with card slots than playing a slow and inconsistent creature. If Goblin Chieftain was still around, that would be different.

the decks discussed in this thread aren't all-in aggro decks



This.

This.

This.

You're looking to stall (and chip away at your opponent with Guttersnipe) until you can throw out your big combo ( Burn at the Stake ) or whatever else. Also, I think that Chandra, the Firebrand could have a place here, but she just seems so damn gimmicky to me. I really wish she was just a little bit better - maybe for a measly 1dmg, she could get +2 to her loyalty?        





This just doesn't feel right. Burn at the Stake is a nice card to put into a Krenko deck as an alternate wincon, but with Krenko lacking the pre-rotation tools he had, it the battle-plan is very clunky. If you are playing Guttersnipe, you may as well abuse his ability as much as possible with cheap, reliable spells that do something independent of Guttersnipe. No need to play Stake and Krenko, two comparatively unreliable spells that simultaneously limit your mana base. Even if your deck is slow/midrangey and able to "stall", I believe consistent Guttersnipe support is superior to playing Stake/Krenko at all. 
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-goblins-07-11...

Let's just post decklists, rather than discuss specific cards.
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-goblins-07-11...

Let's just post decklists, rather than discuss specific cards.




DO NOT POST DECKLISTS IN THIS AREA, GO TO STANDARD DECK HELP!


-the title of the top thread on the page. 



>Says that a cards power level is dependent on the deck it is being played in, and the deck it is being played against.

>>Says not to discuss specific decks.

I didn't start a thread looking for deck help - hence the name of the subforum, Standard Deck Help. We were discussing an archetype of the format, and by the above reasoning, I posted a deck.

I guess the Code of Conduct only matters when you want it to, eh? 

I'm not arguing that at all.  Catowner needs to get off his high seat. I understand that UR Goblins/etc isn't an all-in aggro deck. My stance is that you don't want to MB Krenko in that deck because there are much better things to do with card slots than playing a slow and inconsistent creature. If Goblin Chieftain was still around, that would be different.



While we're talking about high seats, maybe you should stop looking down from yours.

You also shouldn't make baseless assumptions that Krenko isn't one of those "much better things to do," and acutally try it out, even if Gerry T and his friends haven't told you to yet on SCG.

By the way, I found a profile pic for you. Think it sums you up rather well:

(at)MrEnglish22

Awwww he's so cute. Love it!

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Krenko is a def play in any standard Goblin deck. Yes, he lost a lot of support when R2R hit, be he's still definitely playable. That is what we're still talking about right?
This might not be a suggestion regarding blue support, but what about white support? That'd give access to Rootborn Defence (I think that's the name of it, I'd have to go look.) along with O-ring and a few more. Plus, Boros should have some good goblins in it as well. Just a thought.
This might not be a suggestion regarding blue support, but what about white support? That'd give access to Rootborn Defence (I think that's the name of it, I'd have to go look.) along with O-ring and a few more. Plus, Boros should have some good goblins in it as well. Just a thought.



I expect Boros to have goblins, but I'm not going to speculate on Gatecrash beyond "I'm ready for it," nor should anybody else.

Not sure if changing blue for white is worth it though. Blue gives you Goblin Electromancer, which makes your goblin token spells actually worth playing. Rootborn Defenses is good, but I don't see O-Ring being much better than a counterspell.

(at)MrEnglish22


I'm not arguing that at all.  Catowner needs to get off his high seat. I understand that UR Goblins/etc isn't an all-in aggro deck. My stance is that you don't want to MB Krenko in that deck because there are much better things to do with card slots than playing a slow and inconsistent creature. If Goblin Chieftain was still around, that would be different.



While we're talking about high seats, maybe you should stop looking down from yours.

You also shouldn't make baseless assumptions that Krenko isn't one of those "much better things to do," and acutally try it out, even if Gerry T and his friends haven't told you to yet on SCG.

By the way, I found a profile pic for you. Think it sums you up rather well:




I've played countless games with Krenko in both monored pre-rotation and UB post-rotation. He's just not that great in UB outside of magical christmas land. Please stop making with the baseless assumptions and insults because it makes you look considerably less intelligent than I'm sure you are.

Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)


I've played countless games with Krenko in both monored pre-rotation and UB post-rotation. He's just not that great outside of magical christmas land. Please stop making with the baseless assumptions and insults because it makes you look considerably less intelligent than I'm sure you are.




Of course Krenko isn't gonna be good in UB, you can't even cast him.

I've also played with Krenko (did yesterday, actually). OBVIOUSLY he isn't in the top 10 standard cards, but dear god, it isn't always about the strongest cards. The cards provide something different and fun that is actually half-decent.

I also have an itching feeling the decks you've played "countless games" with him in were decks that weren't well built.

Also, you still haven't changed your avatar. 

(at)MrEnglish22


[Thread Title: Krenko Goblin Deck: Blue Support?]
Of course Krenko isn't gonna be good in UB, you can't even cast him.

The cards provide something different and fun that is actually half-decent.


What? And, I'm not even disputing your last point.

Also, you still haven't changed your avatar.


Wow, who knew this would boil down to epeen issues. "this kid doesn't have huge poastcount & join date & profile pic therefore your argument is invalid so why are you even posting" = insecurity, and not much else. What does a poster's profile have to do with anything other than cloud judgement in interpreting their posts?
Let's stop this already.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
I was just pointing out I found a profile picture that describes you perfectly, and you didn't change to it, even though it was obviously the best choice. It has less to do with "epeen issues" and more with the fact you are talking out of your ass.

Also, you said you couldn't cast Krenko in a UB deck... A red card, in a blue-black deck. And you still obviously are missing the entire point of the thread.

(at)MrEnglish22


I'm not arguing that at all.  Catowner needs to get off his high seat. I understand that UR Goblins/etc isn't an all-in aggro deck. My stance is that you don't want to MB Krenko in that deck because there are much better things to do with card slots than playing a slow and inconsistent creature. If Goblin Chieftain was still around, that would be different.



While we're talking about high seats, maybe you should stop looking down from yours.

You also shouldn't make baseless assumptions that Krenko isn't one of those "much better things to do," and acutally try it out, even if Gerry T and his friends haven't told you to yet on SCG.

By the way, I found a profile pic for you. Think it sums you up rather well:




I've played countless games with Krenko in both monored pre-rotation and UB post-rotation. He's just not that great in UB outside of magical christmas land. Please stop making with the baseless assumptions and insults because it makes you look considerably less intelligent than I'm sure you are.




You must've been doing it wrong.  I played Krenko pre-rotation and placed 3rd at an FnM... and then 1st every tournament for a month straight at three different card shops. The deck would consistently kill turn 4 between chieftan into krenko or another chieftan and the grenades.
Since Catowner isn't here to say it, I'll say it for him: winning FNMs doesn't really mean your deck is good.

Okay, that outta the way: This deck is primarily for FNMs, so if Goblins can win FNMs, thats fine.

(at)MrEnglish22

I was just pointing out I found a quack quack that describes you perfectly, quack quack quack quack quack

Also, you said you couldn't cast Krenko in a UB deck... A red card, in a blue-black deck. And you still obviously are missing the entire point of the thread.


If I said UB I meant UR, and I'm sure you could've deduced that in the context of this thread.

Anyways, I have yet to drop a game with my standard UG Defenders (not even using Galvanic Alchemist) in my local playgroups, but that doesn't mean anything other than my opponents aren't playing answers to it. Point is, (relatively) anything can win FNM if nothing answers it. Goblins pre-rotation wasn't a bad budget deck (easily one of the most consistently-performing decks for how inexpensive the singles are/were) and I saw at least one decklist being run at each FNM I attended, pre-rotation.

This thread cares about post-rotation, however. And I don't think there remains a lot to be said in that regard. The best metric for determining how good Krenko is in a given UR deck is to test it yourself, or find someone else to do it.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Since Catowner isn't here to say it, I'll say it for him: winning FNMs doesn't really mean your deck is good.



We could play this game, but I'll just say if you're winning for a month straight and you're playing a pool of around a hundred people, it's probably at least partly the deck.

That said.  I really think Krenko should be held off on until Gatecrash at least.  Hopefully the Gruul/Boros have something offer us Goblin players. 


If I said UB I meant UR, and I'm sure you could've deduced that in the context of this thread.

Anyways, I have yet to drop a game with my standard UG Defenders (not even using Galvanic Alchemist) in my local playgroups, but that doesn't mean anything other than my opponents aren't playing answers to it. Point is, (relatively) anything can win FNM if nothing answers it. Goblins pre-rotation wasn't a bad budget deck (easily one of the most consistently-performing decks for how inexpensive the singles are/were) and I saw at least one decklist being run at each FNM I attended, pre-rotation.


This thread cares about post-rotation, however. And I don't think there remains a lot to be said in that regard. The best metric for determining how good Krenko is in a given UR deck is to test it yourself, or find someone else to do it.




I could have, and I did, but I still wanted to point it out.

Other than that, agreed. Obviously random garbage can win FNMs, and obviously control decks are going to win if nobody plays Cavern of Souls.

I think in the grindy Thragtusk world we currently live in, a card like Krenko has a lot of room to grow, but people dismiss things too easily beacuse "he can be answered."
We don't live in the Vapor Snag era anymore - our creatures can not do stuff for a turn and it not be the end of the world. Nobody has said that yet I don't think, but I wanted to put that out there before someone did. 



We could play this game, but I'll just say if you're winning for a month straight and you're playing a pool of around a hundred people, it's probably at least partly the deck.

That said.  I really think Krenko should be held off on until Gatecrash at least.  Hopefully the Gruul/Boros have something offer us Goblin players. 



I'm not really interested in playing that game, I just said it in Catowner's memory, may he troll forever.

(at)MrEnglish22