So is DDi worth what it was a year ago at this time?

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I've been out of the DDi loop for awhile. Is it worth what it was about a year ago? Has the content amount gone up or down? How about the quality? Price? Is it worth subscribing to this over some other online service?
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
No.  I was paying by the year for a couple of years, but cancelled my renewal a few months ago.

There is hardly any crunch in the magazines if you care about that.  Price is the same.  OCB is a little better, but no major improvements.  We had a beta online game board for a while that was decent, but they shut that down a couple of months ago.  Compendium is the same.

It might be worth getting a one month subscription and downloading all the magazine content since there have been a handful of very good crunch articles with things like many good new themes, a good new warpriest domain, and improvements to the seeker.
Its worth more yes.  While i wish there was more crunch published by WoTC (books or DDi), i still have the same need for the tools DDi provide and still use them as much as i did, except for the Monster Builder, which i don't use quite as often now that the D&D VT was transferred to GTO and doesn't import monster file from it.

The Character Builder has more content that it used to have a year ago, more Feats, Powers, Themes Classes, Races etc..

The Monster Builder has more content that it used to have a year ago, more monsters.

The DDi Compendium has more content that it used to have a year ago, more Feats, Powers, Themes, Classes, Races, Monsters etc.. 

Dragon Magazine has more content than it it used to have a year ago, specifically 12 issues worth of contents. The ammount of content published each month compared to last year is about equal and the crunch is in decline though.

Dungeon Magazine has more content than it it used to have a year ago, specifically 12 issues worth of contents. The ammount of content published each month compared to last year is about equal. 

Only the Character Name Generator hasn't been getting any content increase basically. Same names it had a year ago.

So because DDi is quadrantic, it is worth more as time go by, since there is more content accessible for the same subscription fee. Sure if you look at the magazines alone it might not be the case since you may own copies of previous issues when you re-subscribe and so you might see it as you pay only for the current year's content, but it is in fact incorrect, since when you pay for DDi you pay for more than just the magazines alone. You pay to have access to a suite of online tools. 

The crunch content of the last 12 months of Dragon Magazine is less than what we had on a single issue of Dragon Magazine 2 years ago...on my gaming now we only have 1 DDI for the entire group...

And Plaguescarred... that's not how subscription model works...you need to give new content constantly...that's how those services works, you have to give new content worth of the subcription every month...
The magazines do give new content every months, not as much as it used to, but at least as much as a year ago.

I think the quality of the adventures has increased DRAMATICALLY over the past year.  I would've bought these adventures on their own, so I feel I'm getting my money's worth.

And I can't imagine running a 4E game without a database of monsters and powers just because WotC has released so much stuff that the original books are basically unusable.  That's not good, but bottom line, because so much of the PC and DM material is in these stat blocks rather than something I can eyeball or make up, I couldn't run a 4E game without these resources.  Granted, that's money I'm spending on software rather than books.  I'm not buying Heroes of Scarytown because I have all that stuff in the character builder.  I'm substituting the software for Monster Vault 86: Slightly Smaller Dragons.

Granted, because the push to Next has been so hard and fast I'm not running a 4E game anymore and I can't see myself going back to that clunky combat system.  I still think the adventures alone are worth it.  And they will continue to be worth it only if I get some guidelines for how to build my own monsters and expanded spell lists so I can adopt some of these great adventures.

Vampire Class/Feat in 2013!

I prefer Next because 4E players and CharOpers can't find their ass without a grid and a power called "Find Ass."

No.  I was paying by the year for a couple of years, but cancelled my renewal a few months ago.

There is hardly any crunch in the magazines if you care about that.  Price is the same.  OCB is a little better, but no major improvements.  We had a beta online game board for a while that was decent, but they shut that down a couple of months ago.  Compendium is the same.

It might be worth getting a one month subscription and downloading all the magazine content since there have been a handful of very good crunch articles with things like many good new themes, a good new warpriest domain, and improvements to the seeker.


This.  Certainly don't sign up for a year.  And if they keep doing this **** "release the whole mag at once" thing, you'll wanna time your sub so you actually get both Dragon and Dungeon.  If I didn't like playing on the character builder so much, I would've dropped my sub months ago. 

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

I think it's awesome how after a year the CB still glitches and has numerous bugs and incorrect calculations.

Really makes me feel like I'm getting my money's worth.
I agree with the character builder sentiment.  I play with it constantly.  If I could figure out how to get an offline version working again, I'd probably do that instead.
We had a beta online game board for a while that was decent, but they shut that down a couple of months ago.



Ha.  Glorious.
 We had a beta online game board for a while that was decent, but they shut that down a couple of months ago.



GTO is now managing the Game table.  It is free to use.

Go to gametableonline.com to register for a free account,
then to go RPGtableonline.com and login with the same username to get to the Campaign Manager and Online table.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
It is free to create an account... if you want to use monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra, if you want to be able to store maps, characters, monsters you have to pay.

You cannot upload monsters so you either need to pay to use it or type monsters in by hand and no it doesn't store them unless - you guessed it you pay.

The only funny part is if you thought WotC were overcharging wait till you meet gametableonline
Players can play for free.  Absolutely free.  If you have a Character Builder, you can put those files on your hard drive, and import them to any game you play. All free.

DMs may pay more if they wish.  I was on the VT beta in the beginning, when we had to enter everything by hand.  Create our monsters, and type in all the stats, type in all the attack powers.  So, for free, I could have run games just like I was doing back then, but since I do DM, I decided that a few bucks was worth the convenience.

Now, about the overcharging comment...

for access, I was paying $70 a year for DDI account, for 2 years for VT access, I paid $140.  Since GTO has picked it up, I have spent a total of $35ish, and I now have all free tiles, as well as the others (you know, those tiles we kept asking wotc to release but they never would).  I have all the tokens I want (not all the tokens available, just what I need/want).  and I have access to all the monsters.  I can store 50 maps and 50 adventures, and 50 PCs

According to my math, I have paid less for everything I need, than i was paying wotc for less than what I have now.  And that $35 will last me for a year.. 2 years..  until another optional thing is released, then I might increase my out of pocket expense to maybe $40..  but that still leaves me well under what I paid wotc.

Please stop misinforming people.


"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
It is free to create an account... if you want to use monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra, if you want to be able to store maps, characters, monsters you have to pay.

You cannot upload monsters so you either need to pay to use it or type monsters in by hand and no it doesn't store them unless - you guessed it you pay.

The only funny part is if you thought WotC were overcharging wait till you meet gametableonline

Let me make this abundantly clear for everyone reading this; hup here doesn't know what he's talking about.

I play several games weekly, and I DM my own weekly game. I'm also writing up the details for a new ongoing campaign. I have most of the available sets of tiles. I have all the tokens I wanted. I have character and adventure storage. And I got it all for just short of $10.

In fact, I could have gotten it all without paying a dime. However, I believe that GTO is more than deserving of my minor monetary support.

GTO has been fantastic to us. Before the VT was even released on their site, they had already improved it more than WotC had since its original release. They've added features that we've been wanting for years. They've fixed bugs and issues. They've been very responsive to our demands and feedback, reasonable or not. They've worked with us, directly, to improve the VT. We've had Rob Eng and one of their tech support people, CaptainColeslaw, show up on mibbit and talk to us a few times.

Seriously. If my finances allowed it right now, I would throw money at them. They're a small business and I don't think they're seeing that much income from the VT, they need our support.

So listen. Yes, they charge for some optional things like extra tilesets and tokens. But you'll notice I highlighted the keyword there. You don't have to pay a dime. I strongly encourage you to show them some support, however.

If you can't, that's alright. You can still play for free. Hell, you can even get some GTO Gold for free through the third-party daily offers they've got on their site, and get yourself a few tokens for your characters. Some of those offers are actually pretty interesting, like signing up for Netflix.

Hmm accused of lying and misleading? Certainly not my intent to mislead people so let me state it more clearly:


First the VTT was added to DDI *free* - it cost nothing. DDI existed before the VTT and exists after with not increase in cost to DDI subscribers. So cost to me was $0.00. I notice that you still have a DDI so you are not paying $70 per year for the VTT, you are paying for a DDI account. As pointed out with your DDI account was FREE access to the beta VTT.


Yes you can create an account and run adventures for free - I clearly stated that last time but let me restate that just to be clear.


However if you want access to monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra. For those interested in full disclosure you can get all three monsters tiers currently on special for $18 or purchase single tiers for $8.70. I have never run a single game session only using 1st and 2nd level monster let alone a campaign – so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.


Second I love the fact that they have chosen to put up more tiles. Again the cost (for the additional tiles – the original city, wilderness and dungeon sets are free) averages $4.50 for each tile set and $72 for all the current sets available. Note each set has an individual price ranging from $2.40 (Harrowing Halls) to $8.10 (Underdark).


Note all costs are at the current rate of purchasing GTO gold, however you can purchase gold cheaper by buying in bulk and you can even get free gold by signing up to advertisers or simply watching commercials.


Now I have nothing against GameTableOnline trying to make some money, no doubt they had to purchase the software and the rights for the product from WotC. BUT I do resent having to pay for something that I already had for free OR if your assertion that you were paying for the VTT through DDI then paying for something I have already paid for.


Paying for the right to use tile sets I have already paid WotC for also feels like I am being charged twice.


Sorry if my opinion doesn’t match yours but they are definitely charging for something that was free, that is a simple fact.

I dropped my sub earlier this year since they obviously aren't even trying to make the subscription worth it anymore.  I am curious what the number of subscribers is right now.

I don't need the system for the Character Builder anymore.  I just use the offline Character Builder with some tweaks.  It is too bad those tweaks don't exist for the Monster Builder.  I would be totally set if that happened.

.




i beg the forums to please ignore these lies. check it out for yourself. if you like you can pm me and i will give you a free tour of the table.


Hmm accused of lying and misleading? Certainly not my intent to mislead people so let me state it more clearly:


First the VTT was added to DDI *free* - it cost nothing. DDI existed before the VTT and exists after with not increase in cost to DDI subscribers. So cost to me was $0.00. I notice that you still have a DDI so you are not paying $70 per year for the VTT, you are paying for a DDI account. As pointed out with your DDI account was FREE access to the beta VTT.


 Yes, I have 3 months left on my account.  I originally signed up for 3 months, found myself immediately invited to the Friends and Family Beta test.  When my 3 months were up, I liked the VT so much, I resubscribed for a year.  When that year was up (earlier this year) I again resubbed for a year.  Now that wotc is no longer carrying the VT, I won't be resubscribing, as the tools left aren't worth their cost to me.

Yes you can create an account and run adventures for free - I clearly stated that last time but let me restate that just to be clear.

However if you want access to monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra. For those interested in full disclosure you can get all three monsters tiers currently on special for $18 or purchase single tiers for $8.70. I have never run a single game session only using 1st and 2nd level monster let alone a campaign – so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.




Again.  When the Beta was first started, there was no importable monster data.  As a DM, I had to click the "create new monster" button.  Enter all the stats from my book, or the Compendium.  I had to set the monster's AC, Defenses, HP, APs.  I had to type out every power, every attack roll, every damage roll.  If you use the Online table for free, you can run your games.  You have to manually create all your monsters, like we original Beta Testers had to do for nearly a year before they implemented the AT and monster importing.

Second I love the fact that they have chosen to put up more tiles. Again the cost (for the additional tiles – the original city, wilderness and dungeon sets are free) averages $4.50 for each tile set and $72 for all the current sets available. Note each set has an individual price ranging from $2.40 (Harrowing Halls) to $8.10 (Underdark).



Yes.  I ran games for over a year with just some of the dungeon tiles, and many substitutions and drawing.  Gamers can use their imaginations when you tell someone that a web square is really an altar.  More tiles are convenient, but not mandatory.

Note all costs are at the current rate of purchasing GTO gold, however you can purchase gold cheaper by buying in bulk and you can even get free gold by signing up to advertisers or simply watching commercials.

Now I have nothing against GameTableOnline trying to make some money, no doubt they had to purchase the software and the rights for the product from WotC. BUT I do resent having to pay for something that I already had for free OR if your assertion that you were paying for the VTT through DDI then paying for something I have already paid for.


Paying for the right to use tile sets I have already paid WotC for also feels like I am being charged twice.


Sorry if my opinion doesn’t match yours but they are definitely charging for something that was free, that is a simple fact.




They are charging for optional convienences.  For free, you get more than we original Beta Testers had, and we did just fine then.  I ran the first 3 arcs of the 4e Tomb of Horrors mega adventure with JUST dungeon tiles (because we didn't have wilderness or city at that time) and substitutions and drawing tools.  In the later stages of the VT Beta, we had monsters, but we had to deal without them for a long time.

We used to have Dungeon tiles, and some tokens.  Now, for free, you get Dungeon, Wilderness, and City tiles, and tokens, and level 1-2 monsters.  It's not actually that hard to copy a monster detail from the compendium, paste it to a new blank monster, and just create a few quick power entries.  But, for convenience I paid for the import access to all monsters.

For convenience, I paid for more tiles.   
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
You can beg to forums not to believe the truth all you like...

Please feel free to point out where I lied? Otherwise please feel free to appologise.

At the time WotC removed the VTT, it worked complete with ALL the monsters - yes I made custom monsters too (I did so in the builder and then imported them as needed) but the VTT (complete with monster import) was completely FREE.

As I have stated many times now (obviously reading isn't your strong point) yes you can use it for free, but not at the same level it was when it was free. To use it at the same level as it was when it was free you have to pay.

Yes you had free city, dungeon and wilderness tiles when it was free and yes you had tokens when it was free (in fact more than it now has).\

How about you stop trying to mislead people and admit that to use the program at the same level of functionality it had when it was free it will cost money (or many hours of your time inputting every monster by hand)?

Rather than try to accuse me of lying (which I have never done) how about you stop trying to mislead people?
Maybe not, but definitely misleading people.

 I have never run a single game session only using 1st and 2nd level monster let alone a campaign – so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.

You can run games for free.  May lack some of the conveniences, but it is not a false statement. I was running games on the GTO table for free for a few months before I actually spent any out of pocket money.  I had even used GTO gold to purchase some extras without paying out of pocket cash, using their daily free offers to accumulate enough GTO gold to make some small purchases.  I acquired the Deserts of Athas set, $3.30 worth of GTO gold, without ever paying a dime, just by watching their advertiser videos, and participating in more of their free gold offers.  


Sorry if my opinion doesn’t match yours but they are definitely charging for something that was free, that is a simple fact.



They offer optional subscriptions, but they are not mandatory.  As Mata said above, you can acquire extra tiles, tokens, all the monster data without spending a dime out of pocket, just by participating in enough of their free Gold offers.  it is actually more economical not to subscribe for all but the Adventure traders.  

Is there everything you had at the moment of Wotc discontinuing things? No.  But there was everything and more than there was when most of us started with the beta.  Having played on the VT Beta for 2 years, GTO is doing more than WOTC did with the table.  And despite some claims, it is more economical than it was also.  

Despite the claims, if you weren't a DDI subscriber, you couldn't play on the VT (so definitely wasn't free however it's spun  May have been part of another subscription, but money definitely needed to be spent to use it).  If you are not a GTO subscriber,  you can play on the RPGTO.  You can DM on the RPGTO.  I am thinking of getting my 13 year old son a GTO account so he can play D&D, and create dungeons.  And it'll all be without ever spending a dime for him.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
Please feel free to point out where I lied?


Okay.

First the VTT was added to DDI *free* - it cost nothing.


False. It came with the DDI subscription, but that doesn't make it free. You couldn't invite all your friends to play it. They had to subscribe as well, as I did. By your logic, everything on RPGTO is available for free...so long as you have a GTO premium subscription for their board games.

However if you want access to monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra. [snip] so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.


False. It just means you can't import pre-made monsters. No big deal, I created most of mine from scratch in the first place.

Paying for the right to use tile sets I have already paid WotC for also feels like I am being charged twice.


What tile sets have you already paid for? I thought you said the VT was completely free? Besides, you GET two tile sets for free on the GTO VT that are the equivalent of what was available from WotC.

To actually use the VTT at GameTableOnline you NEED access to monsters above 2nd level - unless you play a very limited campaign where no one advances.


False.

cost to actually use it at GameTableOnline minimum of $8+ therefore they are selling it.


False.

-

Yep, looks like lies and misinformation to me.

You don't know what you're talking about. And we, the people who have actually tried RPGTO, have the real facts. Here's a few.



  • On GTO, you can connect with people on the forums, find games and campaigns, 100% free. The WotC VT forums were DDI-only. DDI isn't free.

  • On GTO, you can play and run games 100% free, no subscription required. The WotC VT was DDI-only. DDI isn't free.

  • On GTO, you can start a campaign, invite all your friends to play, and they can do so 100% free, no subscription required. Back on WotC's VT, it was completely unreasonable to invite your friends to play, requiring them to subscribe just for a weekly game.

  • On GTO, you can, OPTIONALLY, purchase tile sets and tokens, many of which were never available before. We never had such options on WotC's VT.

  • With a GTO subscription, you can even share maps and adventures. WotC took that feature away from us entirely. GTO gave it back.

  • GTO is actively working on improving the VT and adding new content. WotC let the VT fester and rot completely.


This is to educate the uninformed. This is not to convince you, hup, as you've obviously made up your mind. But at least stop spreading misinformation.


Maybe not, but definitely misleading people.

 I have never run a single game session only using 1st and 2nd level monster let alone a campaign – so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.

You can run games for free.  May lack some of the conveniences, but it is not a false statement. 


Sorry if my opinion doesn’t match yours but they are definitely charging for something that was free, that is a simple fact.



They offer optional subscriptions, but they are not mandatory.  As Mata said above, you can acquire extra tiles, tokens, all the monster data without spending a dime out of pocket, just by participating in enough of their free Gold offers.  it is actually more economical not to subscribe for all but the Adventure traders.  

Is there everything you had at the moment of Wotc discontinuing things? No.  But there was everything and more than there was when most of us started with the beta.  Having played on the VT Beta for 2 years, GTO is doing more than WOTC did with the table.  And despite some claims, it is more economical than it was also.  

Despite the claims, if you weren't a DDI subscriber, you couldn't play on the VT (so definitely wasn't free however it's spun)



Ok not even going to bother replying to the others, sorry but if you can't carry on a civil conversation I am not going to bother trying to communicate.

As I have said many times now, I am not attempting to mislead people nor have I lied at any point. I have included links to show people their price structure for the "optional" extras and I have even priced the most common "extras" converting their gold to dollars. i am only trying to give people an unbiased view - not just spruking "free".

The cost of the VTT to me was $0. I had a DDI subscription before the VTT and after. Second you could use the VTT without being a DDI member using the "invites". Yes this was near the end but again trying to inform people of the facts not opinions.

If YOU can run a campaign typing in every monster then I am happy for you, but i notice you clearly state you don't do that and you have in fact paid for the convienence. I would not run a campaign typing every monster in by hand, my time is more important to me.

I have nothing against the company trying to make some money back on their investment - I am betting WotC didn't GIVE the VTT to them. And again as I said previously I applaude them for updating with new tokens and tiles. That is not my point.

I was going to ask one simple question to finish this whole thing but I don't need to... you have already answered for me:
"Is there everything you had at the moment of Wotc discontinuing things? No. "

Ok, now can I use the product as I could BEFORE for free?  NO. 

What is my minimum spend to get back to where I was before WotC sold it off? about $8.

Would i spend the extra $72 to get the full tile set? Yes. (well see my next point)

Can I get GTOgold for free? Yes but again lets be honest here at between 1 and 20 gold for signing up to spam and other sites, it will be a long time before you can get enough to EVEN get the monsters (that we had). I would estimate (based on what i have done so far) about 8 hours grinding boars would get you enough to get one tier of monsters.

Note that is the last I'll say on the matter except one thing: 

One of the important things about virtual games is of course a decent community. Now before today I was happy to spend around $100 to get everything needed - I had planned to run encounters sessions using the VTT. This whole thing started because I had been asked to run current encounters seasons online, only to discover the VTT gone. But given the level of hostility from members of the community I have no intention of spending a single $1 there now. I will grind boars and eventually run encounters sessions but I refuse to spend any money BECAUSE of the ranting hostility of some members.

Agonar thank-you for responding in a civil manner and I appologise if I mislead anyone but IMHO they are "selling" a product that I had been given for free. 

Good luck, good gamming and good bye.  
What is my minimum spend to get back to where I was before WotC sold it off? about $8.


You'd have to pay more than that IMO since you'd have to pay for:

1) PC, Adventure and Map Storage or Premium Subcription (minimum 150 GTO Gold or between $7.99 and $9.99 USD/Month)

2) Missing PC Tokens  (20 GTO Gold each)

3) Missing Monsters Tokens  (between 5 and 10 GTO Gold each)

4) Monster Data Pack  (300 GTO Gold)

Its worth more yes.

If you jump back in after a a pause then yes.

If you have been continiously paying then it's becoming less and less worth to continue to do so.




On the topic of is it worth more than it once was, there are pros and cons:

Yes, the Dungeon adventure material has improved IMHO (The Against the Giants series by Chris Perkins was absolutely fantastic.)
Yes, the continued updates of the CB and AT are now quite close to the release of the books.
Yes, I personally find the compendium priceless while at work to check on things.

However:

We have lost the VTT (for better or worse to another provider. I am not going into that again).
The CB still infuriates me at times and STILL cannot print properly (I have even in sent them the code to implement real PDF printing from silverlight but no joy ). silverlightpdfprint.codeplex.com/ << here it is again just in case anyone is reading this.

I suspect the tools are on their way out as they focus more and more on "next".

Of course it all comes down to choice and how much you value something? With my DDI costing ~$6 per month some months are better than others, but to me it is still worth it. I spend a lot of money on gaming since I spend a lot of time gaming, $6 per month is very little IMHO.

Edit: Yes, Plague I agree to get the same as we were getting in VTT will cost more, I was looking at minimum spend to get it working to a usable level. Personally I would probably choose the premium subscription (storage and uploading images being primary benefits) and may do so after my initial rage over being charged for something I had for free passes. :P
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