Does anyone else think Skymark Roc is ridiculously broken?

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I've played against this a couple of times, and also just recently played it in a busted Pyroconvergence deck (picked one up late in pack 1, only 1 Convergence at the end total) And I would have to say that not only is Skymark Roc ridiculously busted in this set, it was a big reason I went 2-1 instead or 1-2. I mean, a 3/3 flyer for 4 that unsummons troublesome creatures like Stealer of Secrets? In a set where pretty much every flyer is in the 2/2 range, and there exist plenty of under 3 toughness tokens? That just seems busted to me.
Really good? Yes.
Ridiculously broken? Not really.
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Riight. From the mind that brought you Chaos Imps objectively rating 3.5 on a 5 point scale :-p

Hmmm... perhaps a better phrasing is that Skyroc is a 4 CMC uncommon that I have seen win games nearly singlehandedly on both sides of the board. Then people can draw their own conclusions.

On a related note, I did finally beat a deck after it cast Chaos Imps... with Essence Backlash (But otherwise it would have definitely killed me.)
I hope it's ridic broken, because I just put it in my deck.

But I don't think it is.
I hope it's ridic broken, because I just put it in my deck.

But I don't think it is.



You'll see, eventually your oppoents will just give up playing the creatures it can return. Also, give it Civic Saber if you have one. It makes it a lot more fun!
Cheap fliers are in general pretty good. As for the ability, it is really good against mirror matches, i.e. Azorius v Azorius, but it has less impact against the other guilds.
I'd actually say this Roc is almost at bomb levels.  Best uncommon in set?  Can't think of one better off the top of my head, but there might be.

There really aren't many 3/3 flyers at all, and having this one with a very relevant ability puts him over the top.
Tolkein was a jerk. Seriously, what DM sends 9 Wraith Lords at a Lvl 2 party of Halflings. The only 'correct' way to play D&D is by whatever method is making the group you have at that session, have the most fun.
Roc is what I'd call a rare teir creature (actually if it were a rare it'd probably be a 4/4), but not a bomb. I got mana screwed one game and could play stuff but couldn't play anything that my oppoennt's Roc couldn't bounce, it was disappointing.
I'd actually say this Roc is almost at bomb levels.  Best uncommon in set?  Can't think of one better off the top of my head, but there might be.

There really aren't many 3/3 flyers at all, and having this one with a very relevant ability puts him over the top.

Guttersnipe.  Better Uncommon.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Guttersnipe is situationally better in some decks, whereas I think the Skymark Roc is good in any deck that can support it.
I'd likely also consider the Rakdos and Selesnya Guildmages as better uncommons, but it's still very good.
The 5/4 trampler for 4 has the potential to be quite punishing and was originally my vote for best uncommon, but if you can get the Roc's special ability to work it completely takes over the game. Even with my busted deck the only game I lost after playing the Roc is the game the Roc had no legal targets, because I was facing a Selensya deck that played only Centaurs and had Growing Ranks running so the only possible win was racing through the air.
I played Roc last night. It was killed every time after one turn, so I have no idea how good it is except that it's clearly a target for removal.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I looked it up and LSV has this one at 4.0, which is generally considered bomb level. He has it on par with the Azorious Guildmage (also 4.0) but is more enthusiastic about the Roc.
Maybe I should change my statement: it looks awesome and I was super stoked to crack it. I could see it being guildmage-esque, though the GM's detain power and evasion-augments are pretty awesome.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I wouldn't call it ridiculously broken. 3/3 flyers for 4 mana are great for limited. Being able to mess with your opponent's tempo is good, but not enough to make it anywhere near broken. Pack Rat is ridiculously broken.

"This list much made Niche barf a lil' in his mouth, so I can be proud of that." -rstnme

Maybe I should change my statement: it looks awesome and I was super stoked to crack it. I could see it being guildmage-esque, though the GM's detain power and evasion-augments are pretty awesome.



Certainly the GM becomes more awesome the longer the game progresses, but the Roc is an evasive 3/3 that can return creatures for no mana. If that works in the early-mid game, which it often does it allows you to completely dominate your opponent. I remember at one point playing against the Roc I had to discard creatures to my Loleth Troll just so I could keep it on the board, and once my opponent figured out I could do that he started targetting my Beetle instead.
Actually, I would say Arrest is the best uncommon.  Almost blanket removal (given that it is rare to play enchantment removal main deck unless you are in white with the apparation).
I don't think Roc can be the best uncommon. You have to remember that if it has no bounce targets then it is just a3/3 flier. And if you're trying to race someone who's populating then a 3/3 for four mana is not the best. I like the Ogre and the Selesnya Guildmage a lot, and think I'd rate them higher.
Actually, I would say Arrest is the best uncommon.  Almost blanket removal (given that it is rare to play enchantment removal main deck unless you are in white with the apparation).



Sundering Growth and Apparition are both maindeckable, but the real problem with Arrest is the number of bounce and sacrifice effects. Every time I've had a creature arrested in this format I've been able to get additional utility out of them.
Teleportal is uncommon too.
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Teleportal is uncommon too.



That would hardly get my vote for top uncommon. I like it a lot in Rakdos/Izzet, but I like Bloodfray Giant and Hellhole Flailer better there. In Azorious/Izzet I end up cutting it or wishing I could cut it more often than not. It doesn't nearly have the same kick when the majority of your creatures have evasion and/or more toughness than power.
Teleportal is uncommon too.



That would hardly get my vote for top uncommon. I like it a lot in Rakdos/Izzet, but I like Bloodfray Giant and Hellhole Flailer better there. In Azorious/Izzet I end up cutting it or wishing I could cut it more often than not. It doesn't nearly have the same kick when the majority of your creatures have evasion and/or more toughness than power.



I'm not saying it's the top uncommon but it should be in the discussion. Unless you're playing Druid's Deliverance this card can just steal games out of nowhere.
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I love teleportal. It finishes games. "Bottom heavy" is less of a big deal when you're tagging an extra +1 power to each creature. This+Blustersquall are fun times.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I also love Teleportal.

@Cato:
Golgari Guildmage is nonblue and it isn't too crazy. Intimidate is less relevant in the format. Rakdos Guildmage is absolutely stellar in the Rakdos deck when you're the beatdown though, they can just never block you, and when they don't you get to hit them for one or two extra.
Damn Guildmage names.
In support of Lobster, Teleportal won best card (not just best uncommon) at GP Philiadelphia.  Note Pack Rat came 5th.
Yeah, that article also says:

"And considering four of the eight decks that started 9-0 had Pack Rat on their front line, it's safe to say the card dominates this format."

While for Teleportal is says:

"Teleportal, Blustersquall and Rogue's Passage were all good ways to break through difficult board positions, and their value certainly goes up in sealed"

Does it make sense for Teleportal to be #1 and Pack Rat to be #5 given those statements? It is clear that all 5 listed cards were just the impressions of the staff that wrote up that article.

To pick the actual top cards you need to look at the decks with the best records and count the cards that appeared the most often in those decks. If you account for rarity or look at only the very best decks you typically get power rares like Pack Rat and Bloodgift Demon in the best cards list. If you look at just decks with winning records and don't account for rarity you typically get power commons/uncommons like Avacynian Priest and Trusty Machete as the top cards.
Guttersnipe is situationally better in some decks, whereas I think the Skymark Roc is good in any deck that can support it.

You realize that your statement makes little to no sense to justify your stance.

Guttersnipe is situationally better in some decks (decks that can support it), and Skyrock is good in any deck that can support it (Situationally better in some decks).

Guttersnipe is a mono-coloured creature that can be put in any RU/RG/RW/RB/R deck. Skyrock can run in UWB/UWG/UWR/UW... less decks... odd... unless you want to run 4c or 5c decks in limited.  Good luck to you.

I will however concede that Skyrock is an amazing card as far as cost-power ratio is concerned.  When attacking it is a great creature.  I personally like the fact that Guttersnipe just has to sit there and look pretty and can still be effective. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

I would argue that the five best uncommons in the set are Teleportal, Skymark Roc, Rogue's Passage, Arrest and Blustersquall, though Bloodfray Giant and Hellhole Flailer come close.
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I would argue that the five best uncommons in the set are Teleportal, Skymark Roc, Rogue's Passage, Arrest and Blustersquall, though Bloodfray Giant and Hellhole Flailer come close.



I'll definately agree with you on the Arrest.  That is an awesome card. Buster is a cheaper version of sleep, awesome card.  Rogues has made its way into My edh deck, but in limited I can't see this being used as much.  Hellhole is very nice.  Great addition for any Rackdos deck.

I'd have to add in there Fencing Ace as being an awesome Uncommon.  And Rix Maadi Guildmage is in My opinion the best Guildmage they released this set.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Interesting, because I've seen a lot out of both Bloodfray and Flailer, but virtually nothing out of Teleportal, Rogue's Passage or Blustersquall. Certainly the potential is there, I just never see the board states that would make them work. I also think the guildmages tend to be allstars for their decks, because they generally compliment what that guild needs to do.
I will concede that Rix Maadi Guildmage might make top 5, and that Korozda Guildmage and Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage are close (the former only ruined by B/G being the worst of the guilds, generally speaking).
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Tom Martell, Brian Kibler and David Ochoa were all pretty high on Teleportal, B.Squall and Passage in the latest GP coverage, saying you needed a way to break through board stalls, especially against Selesnya.  As for my own experience, both Blustersquall and Teleportal have stolen games for me on several occasions and while I have not had the opportunity to play with Passage, I've lost matches to it that I should have won if it wasn't drawn otherwise.

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
Tom Martell, Brian Kibler and David Ochoa were all pretty high on Teleportal, B.Squall and Passage in the latest GP coverage, saying you needed a way to break through board stalls, especially against Selesnya.  As for my own experience, both Blustersquall and Teleportal have stolen games for me on several occasions and while I have not had the opportunity to play with Passage, I've lost matches to it that I should have won if it wasn't drawn otherwise.



I saw a lot of board stalls in sealed but not nearly as many in draft. Perhaps because Rakdos was often on one side of the board.
Tom Martell, Brian Kibler and David Ochoa were all pretty high on Teleportal, B.Squall and Passage in the latest GP coverage, saying you needed a way to break through board stalls, especially against Selesnya.  As for my own experience, both Blustersquall and Teleportal have stolen games for me on several occasions and while I have not had the opportunity to play with Passage, I've lost matches to it that I should have won if it wasn't drawn otherwise.



I saw a lot of board stalls in sealed but not nearly as many in draft. Perhaps because Rakdos was often on one side of the board.



I saw board stalls while playing Rakdos.  Which is why Lobber Crew is a favorite addition to that deck as a finisher.  1-2 damage a turn after I've bled my opponent down was helpful.  (I wish I'd had Passage in that deck honestly)

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
I like Stab Wound for that very reason. When I played or played against Rakdos it was often ground creatures trading with each other, so that the board was generally sparse at any given point. Unless it was two Rakdos decks with everything unleashed and at that point the creatures just crossed over each other. Rakdos has the highest power/toughness ratio creatures as well as the most removal so a lot of times a clear board was inevitable. But I agree Selensya on either side of the board is a good candidate for a board stall. A lot of non evasive 3/3s on one side of the board and high toughness to power creatures tends to stall things out.