Need help with dragon vs dragon combat.

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I've been actively playing a 3.5 Dragonlance game for a few years (off and on) and during one of our recent battles, a silver dragon PC tried using her paralyzing breath weapon on an enemy dragon (a blue). My question is this. Would it work?

All dragons have immunity to sleep and paralysis effects. I decided that it wouldn't but later got thinking. In Dragons of Krynn on page 18 they have an optional rule which I have been using wherein dragons have the equivalent of Improved Evasion against any breath weapon they have natural immunity to. For example. A red dragon breathes on a gold dragon. The gold would take only half damage from the breath weapon or none if it saves. This only protects against breath weapon attacks, not spells or other energy based attacks, and only if a reflex save can be used to avoid it.

I searched the forums but couldn't find anything at all in regards to dragons being affected by other dragons breath weapons. A brass dragons breath also raises issues if it tries to put another dragon to sleep?

What are your opinions? Should it be able to work at all? Half effect? I'd LOVE to find something cannon for this as I am a confirmed Lawful Neutral Rules Lawyer, but at this point I'm open to opinons.
I don't know if Krynn/Dragonlance has house rules for dragons in that setting, so forgive me if I'm mis-stating the obvious, but your example of a red dragon breathing at a gold dragon is moot, as golds have immunity to fire.  I wonder if perhaps you mean that dragons have "improved evasion versus dragons' breath weapons that they do not have natural immunity to"?

As for the paralysis effect, I also pretty much think that you answered your own question.  Dragons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects too.  Unless a "dragon PC" is somehow statted out like other splatbook ideas I've seen discussed here on the threads, and they don't get all the special qualities of True Dragons until highest levels.  Like I think I've seen people mention Savage Species alot in that regard.  Only thing I have to even compare it with would be the Dragon Disciple class, as we don't own any Krynn/Dragonlance/Dracomonicon material.

So I might have wasted 5 minutes throwing out my opinion for ya, but it passed the time whilst enjoying my morning coffee.

Best of  luck,
Neue

 
I don't know if Krynn/Dragonlance has house rules for dragons in that setting, so forgive me if I'm mis-stating the obvious, but your example of a red dragon breathing at a gold dragon is moot, as golds have immunity to fire.  I wonder if perhaps you mean that dragons have "improved evasion versus dragons' breath weapons that they do not have natural immunity to"?

As for the paralysis effect, I also pretty much think that you answered your own question.  Dragons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects too.  Unless a "dragon PC" is somehow statted out like other splatbook ideas I've seen discussed here on the threads, and they don't get all the special qualities of True Dragons until highest levels.  Like I think I've seen people mention Savage Species alot in that regard.  Only thing I have to even compare it with would be the Dragon Disciple class, as we don't own any Krynn/Dragonlance/Dracomonicon material.

So I might have wasted 5 minutes throwing out my opinion for ya, but it passed the time whilst enjoying my morning coffee.

Best of  luck,
Neue

 

I was reading the dragon lance campaing setting and dont say nothing of the basic stats of the dragon only her psychological description all other facts are equal to the standar D&D 3.5 therefore are immunes to paralize maybe is a varian rule of other book or you can apply it as house rule.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Neue, I think the point in the OP is that Dragonlance, as a dragon-heavy campaign setting, has optional rules to allow breath weapons to affect other dragons who would otherwise be immune.

In this particular instance, I think that, by the rules, a paralytic breath weapon is still going to auto-fail. I also think it wouldn't be unreasonable to houserule that a draconic breath weapon can bypass the immunity to paralysis, but grant the defending dragon a racial bonus to save.
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
And, BTW, Nik0n; I like the Hackers reference.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
And, BTW, Nik0n; I like the Hackers reference.



Ha! Thnx

Fore everyone, thanks for the responses. As for the dragon PC, I'm using the rules found in the Dragon Magazine. Works really well.

I guess I did answer my own question. Player was just looking for a quick "kill" sorta thing I guess. You know, paralyze or sleep a dragon that's flying and it crashes to the gound. But I guess that's why they're immune to that sort of thing.

But this raises an interesting question: can a dragon block /cancel out another dragon’s breath weapon?! For example can a red dragon with his fire breath block the cold breath of a silver one. I’d rule it can. Or can a gold dragon fight fire with fire to block the breath of a red dragon – probably to save his rider. That’s trickier, but probably a yes too.


I’d rule out most other combinations however, like a line of lightning against a corrosive cloud…

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"Once, I was a fighter -

to conquer the heart of a beautiful lady.

Then I became a thief -

- to steal myself a kiss from her lips.

And finally, I became a mage -

- to enchant her face with a smile."

The Council of Wyrms optional setting for 2nd edition contained a complete dragon vs dragon battle chapter if i recall correctly. It also had a lot of rules for creating dragon characters. The rules should port easily enough to 3.x. I guess.

My copy is somewhere on the attic, but you might be able to find a digital copy somewhere? Fun supplement in general.
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