Which is Better: Jade Mage or Selesnya Guildmage?

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Right now I'm using 3x Selesnya Guildmage and 3x Selesnya Evangel. I won't consider taking out the Evangel because I like that the best out of the 3.

Here's the way I see it:

Selesnya Guildmage<strong> </strong>
PROS
- 2 toughness makes it tougher to kill, especially against decks with pingers
- nonrestrictive casting cost
- Have found the 2nd ability to be useful once in awhile. Most of the time you don't even have to activate it, just threaten to use it. Or your opponent will forget about the ability and you can take out one of their creatures that they thought was safe. Can also be used as a finisher in some circumstances.
- gets double bonus from Wilt-Leaf Liege

CONS
- abilities are expensive, will rarely ever use it to make tokens unless it's the only generator on the board and I have nothing better to spend mana on.


Jade Mage
PROS
- a lot more feasible as a token generator than the Guildmage
-great artwork! Smile (not joking, sometimes i use the art as a deciding factor when choosing cards)

CONS
- 1 toughness makes it really easy to kill and can never be used in combat
- more restrictive casting cost (relatively speaking)


From my pros and cons it looks like I should stick with the Guildmage but can't help being a little underwhelmed by it, but the Jade Mage is nothing special either. So which one do you use?
Neither one of them are efficient token-producers, but the Selesnya Guildmage is a 2/2 and his second ability becomes relevant in the mid-game. Also don't forget that he has a hybrid mana cost, so you can cast him more easily early and manual-tap to suit your needs late. The Jade Mages are clearly second-rate compared to this guy.
imo Guildmage is better because the pump for 4 mana is more relevant than the token for 3.  But I use all of them in my token/aggro build which tops out the curve at 4cmc
I've found the guildmage to be much stronger. The extra mana for the token seems to be a good price to pay for the flexibility provided by the pump ability.
Neither one of them are efficient token-producers, but the Selesnya Guildmage is a 2/2 and his second ability becomes relevant in the mid-game. Also don't forget that he has a hybrid mana cost, so you can cast him more easily early and manual-tap to suit your needs late. The Jade Mages are clearly second-rate compared to this guy.



These exact reasons are why I run the Guildmage, too. Also, I've gotta say, I've found the +1/+1 pump to come in handy way more than I'd expect. It's not always part of my strategy, but I like having it around, even if just to make my opponent nervous when I attack with four mana open.
I run both in my deck but I like the Guildmage better for a couple of reasons. The Guildmage won't die to pinging and can block 1/X creatures. It's also both green and white so with a Liege or Tolsimir out, it becomes a 4/4.

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

I've been running them all, but I prefer the Guildmage for reasons others have stated. I don't think the token generation on either card is exactly gamechanging, so I look at other factors and I think the hybrid nature (ease of casting + Liege boost) and toughness increase make the Guildmage stronger. The Glorious Charge ability tends to be really useful during the game as well, tricking bad players into making poor blocks and attacks.
[C]Selesnya Guildmage[/C] is a lot better in my opinion but both cards are just indirections. This deck needs good token producing cards like [C]Gather the Townsfolk[/C], [C]White Sun's Zenith[/C], [C]Selesnya Charm[/C] and especially [C]Call of the Conclave[/C].
The token strategy in this deck is just weird. Instead of cards which immediately put tokens onto the battlefield you get creatures that can create tokens when you invest tons of mana. I was also shocked not to see [C]Thraben Doomsayer[/C] or [C]Doomed Traveler[/C] in this deck.

IMAGE(http://oi39.tinypic.com/14mvxh5.jpg)

When I was first playing this deck, I tried to go the heavy token route, but found it unreliable. I do run several of the token-producing cards (Midnight Haunting, Selesnya Guildmage, Selesnya Evangel, Ant Queen, Hero of Bladehold), but I consider them a supplemental win-con, rather than my main one. Beastmaster Ascension and Overrun are the key cards in this deck. I do run Intangible Virtue, however, for two reasons; because it's awesome and because I run both Knotvine Paladins.

I just wish Overrun was 3gg to cast.... ah well.
I run the ant queens only.  Their token gen. is cheaper, and it retains it's Cmc efficiency.  I find that I rarely have alot of free mana for the mages, so I took them out for more agro cards like the dauntless escourt.

 If I had to say, the jade mage is slightly better, because the token gen. is cheaper which is by far the primary ability.  If you have parralel lives in play, intangible virtue, or both, then 4 2/2 tokens cost only 6 mana with the jade mage, but 8 mana for the guild mage.  It takes a long time for CM to land an 8th land drop, so shenanagins are much more likely with the jade mage.  
I think I might add Ant Queen to my build. I'm running pretty much the same thing as Hakeem, but I'm not happy with the other token generators (except for Hero of the Bladehold, which I love).

Overall, I still haven't figured out how I want this deck to play. When I cut the bulk of the token-focused cards, I find I miss them. But when I have them in, I find that I'm lacking the finishing power I need.
Thats really the toughest thing about this deck nimnams, as the deck is weak when built one way or the other. The solution is a delicately balanced hybrid of agro/token gen. I run all of the parallel lives/intangible virtues, but only (what I think is) the good token generating cards.. ie: 2x ant queen, 2x fists of ironwood, 2x midnight haunting, 2x saproling gen. Instant, hero of bladehold, 2x selesnia evangel. The rest of the deck is very agressive. Its only drawback is sometimes it gets abunch of intangible/parallels, with no token gen, but it frequntly explodes out the gate with nasty creaturez so token gen is just an alternative late game win condition. This is another (of many) deck builds with NO cards cmc6 or higher. The deck has so little to ramp that the big bombs are typically dead weight, and not at all necessary for the deck to win.
PS: I love novablast wyrm, and wish it fit into the deck somehow. I think novablast/dauntless escort/biorythm is the coolest combo in the game right now, but cant see it landing more than once every 20 games or so. Anyone else feel that way? Anybody had any success with that legendary combo?
I play both.

Mafia Game Slots:

1. Open

2. Hundred Acres (Dead Town)

3. Open

4. Open

5. Open

6. Open

aaronjoncheney, I'd love to see your CM build. It sounds like it's quite different from mine.
Yes, please post your build.  I haven't seen many good CM builds that I like, and would like to see more.
This is my CM build:


 
This build is very consistent because of the low mana curve.  Just play down your creatures and generate tokens early, and they will become threats later on with all the different buffing possibilities.

Biggest vulnerability is sweepers.  Pernicious Deed is a pain in the neck.  I don't think you would lose much by taking out Scion of the Wild and putting in Dauntless Escort, in fact that might be better, but right now I have the Scions.



Guildmage all the way. His token ability only costs 1 more, and that's more than made up for by the fact that he can also make use of all the tokens he makes.

Jade Mage is like "There, I made a saproling. I don't know what to do with it, you figure something out."
Guildmage ius like "You know those 12 saprolings I made? Well if you can lend me I can turn them all into elephants." 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
You made 12 saprolings with a guildmage!? that costs 48 mana.  I can think of better things to do with 48 mana.

  My build is somewhat similar to konoko's.  Posting builds takes too long, but I can assure you it's competitive.  Konoko's actually has NO 5cmc cards, which I wasn't able to muster, as I love the silk-lash spider, and the antqueen, and I run parralel lives instead of beastmaster ascention/dauntlees escort instead of heirarch, and no scion of the wild.
Can you think of something better to do with 48 mana when you're topdecking, and that's been spent 4 at a time over your opponent's turns?

Sure, it'd be nice to have more cards, but there's no draw in this deck.  To answer the thread title, gotta be guildmage all the way.
You made 12 saprolings with a guildmage!? that costs 48 mana.  I can think of better things to do with 48 mana.


I dunno, I was generalizing, I'm still at the "Why would I not just burn the [Debutantes avert your eyes] out of everything that's a threat while El Fuego Titan powercreeps across the finish line?" stage of the game, but I know that if I was making a deck and had to choose between the two, I'd go with the guildmage every time (Actually I'd prolly run Sprout Swarm, but I guess the deck doesn't have that option).
The only thing jade has on selesnya is the one mana discount, whereas guildmage still does the whole "EOT saproling with my free mana" thing, but can also turn those saprolings into an actual threat (Plus buffing the rest of your team obvi.). 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I can't ever remember making for than like 3 tokens with the Guildmage in a single game. Most of the time it just sits around doing nothing, until I need it's 2nd ability for something.
You made 12 saprolings with a guildmage!? that costs 48 mana. 


Not with 2-3x Parallel Lives it doesn't.
What do you guys think of my build?


erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">


"Saproling Factory" library


for Collective Might (Selesnya): 40 picks, 60 cards


erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~BK80BI~~Saproling Factory~~2=bwaxB~~3=Quk71~~2BJCqq0~~2=RplRS~~2AizpSz~~2=vVVbn~~3?RPOKO~~2AnIXbr~~2BqP?nX~~2=VB3f4~~4?JDdWS~~2?VGjWn~~2AkCXBO~~2=DMCcy~~2A8AvRm~~2=Qxr0o~~2?Zgt?D~~2BLQfAn~~))))))))



erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid #8b9733; border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">


   cost  




 Spell 
■■■■
 Evolving Wilds 

  




   cost  




 Spell 
■■
 Sprout 

  



■■
 Swords to Plowshares 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Jade Mage 
 2/1 
  



■■
 Qasali Pridemage 
 2/2 
  



■■
 Selesnya Evangel 
 1/2 
  



■■
 Selesnya Guildmage 
 2/2 
 ()(




 Spell 
■■
 Fists of Ironwood 

  



■■
 Intangible Virtue 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Dauntless Escort 
 3/3 
  



■■
 Scion of the Wild 
 */* 
  




 Spell 
■■
 Beastmaster Ascension 

  



■■
 Midnight Haunting 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Hero of Bladehold 
 3/4 
  



■■■
 Loxodon Hierarch 
 4/4 
  




 Spell 
■■■
 Parallel Lives 

  




   cost  




 Creature 
■■
 Ant Queen 
 5/5 
  



■■
 Silklash Spider 
 2/7 
  






erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>






Not exactly my favorite deck but whatever......
I could also add eldarmri's Call
Why no Wilt-Leaf Liege?  IMO that is a must include
 
I've been having great success with this build:

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Eladamri's call should almost always be used to fetch Wilt-Leaf Liege, because most of the creatures in this deck are dual-colored and get a +2/+2 pump (that is why Tolsimir is in this deck as well). Remember that it is an instant and can be played in response to Mind Rot or Blightning, so you can essentially play your Liege for {G}{W}.

The best target for Fists of Ironwood is Knotvine Paladin, because the trample is actually relevant on him. You can enchant your opponent's weenies, however, if you really need the tokens. Intangible Virtue makes your Paladin even more beastly, because you can attack with your tokens and still get the boost.

The Qasali Pridemage is your only answer to artifacts/enchantments so it is an auto-include, IMO.

The Selesnya Evangel is your best early token producer because of the low mana cost, and tapping isn't an issue because you just wait until your opponent's end-step or after you declare a blocker or in response to removal, right?

The Selesnya Guildmage is a capable 2/2 body for 2 hybrid mana, whose second ability becomes more relevant as the game goes on. I don't think I've ever produced a token with him.

Sigil Blessing is a powerful combat trick and will win you games. It's capable of forcing lots of damage through if you outnumber the opponent.

Beastmaster Ascension and Overrun win games. Period.

Dauntless Escort is a capable body with a relevant ability that you can use when you're tapped out. I've survived several board wipes with this. Loxodon Hierarch is similar, but you need the open mana and you won't survive a Damnation, even if you have it. He's mainly just a big body that stabilizes your life total a bit.

Midnight Haunting gives you fliers at instant speed. This card rivals Raise the Alarm in utility, and is the deck's only flying threat. Run them.

Hero of Bladehold. 'Nuff said.

Ant Queens are capable 5/5s for 5 that can quickly help you recover from a board wipe. Save these if you think your opponent has one.


All-in-all, a solid deck. Try it out! 
Why no Wilt-Leaf Liege?  IMO that is a must include
 




Strange, I do have them on my build, I must be overlooking something some other card for it but i am not sure which. I will double check when I get home.
I seem to be the only one running Phytohydra. I know it doesn't really fit the token theme, but that card is so awesome, I can't bear to cut it. Maybe it's because I love it so much, but I find that the card has been crucial to many of my wins with this deck.
I seem to be the only one running Phytohydra. I know it doesn't really fit the token theme, but that card is so awesome, I can't bear to cut it. Maybe it's because I love it so much, but I find that the card has been crucial to many of my wins with this deck.



I really like it too, just not on this deck though.
Phytohydra  doesn't really fit in my build because it is too slow to get going.  I always feel like the longer the game goes on, the less favorable for CM, because of the lack of board control, lack of draw, and higher chance that your opponent is going to draw something that you can't answer.  It's the same reason I don't run Parallel Lives, because it takes two turns to get going.  But this is specifically for my build, I've never tried a more mid/long range version of CM.
I love Phytohydra.  I've been running it, but I have to agree ... without some form of ramp, it is too slow, and there are many decks that answer it easily.  I should take it out of my build, but I can't bring myself to do so...  
Its a nice card but it was obilously tossed in here just because it has green and white on the cmc.
I use the Phytohydra ramp more as a threat than as a win con. Unless my opponent's creature has trample, people tend to be reticent to attack when he's out for fear of giving me the advantage. It's almost like a green and white Obliterator. That allows me to lean on my opponent with my other creatures - or the hydra, if it's gotten bigger.
You made 12 saprolings with a guildmage!? that costs 48 mana.  I can think of better things to do with 48 mana.



Or 12 mana with two parallel lives up.

Edit: Oops, the cat beat me to it. 
It's the same reason I don't run Parallel Lives, because it takes two turns to get going.  But this is specifically for my build, I've never tried a more mid/long range version of CM.



If I've allready got a Hero of Bladehold out, Parallel Lives is basically effective immediately.
It's the same reason I don't run Parallel Lives, because it takes two turns to get going.  But this is specifically for my build, I've never tried a more mid/long range version of CM.



If I've allready got a Hero of Bladehold out, Parallel Lives is basically effective immediately.



Yeah, that is definitely a good combo that I ran for a while.  But overall I found it too inconsistent for my taste since getting Hero of Bladehold to stick doesn't happen too often, and when it does you already have a big advantage with or without Parallel Lives.
Any good BO of this deck plays both of these cards.
But to your Q, the first 1 is better, but not by too much!
I use the Phytohydra ramp more as a threat than as a win con. Unless my opponent's creature has trample, people tend to be reticent to attack when he's out for fear of giving me the advantage. It's almost like a green and white Obliterator. That allows me to lean on my opponent with my other creatures - or the hydra, if it's gotten bigger.



That's the same way I use it.  I don't know that it's worth it overall though.  I've had a few games where I've beaten goblins almost exclusively because of Phytohydra - but my opponents just didn't get how the card worked.  Most recently, the goblins player attacked with a Chieftan, and when that didn't work, used a grenade.  And then did nothing for the rest of the game.  I've also had games where the Mindstorms player decided to burn it.  But these aren't exactly the most experienced opponents.  I'm keeping it in because it's great against certain decks, but I feel like it's not the best card in the world and my love for it is irrational.
I don't run Jade Mage at all, the deck already has enough token generation without it and Jade Mage is the worst of the 3 token generators. I run 3 Evangels and 2 Guildmages, which I find is plenty sufficient early game, you really want to get that Evangel out early on and then the Guildmage out when you need some pressure if you have nothing better in hand.

I don't have anything higher than 4 drop, yet I have a pretty good early game/mid-range build I believe, I've run this deck more than any other expansion deck in 1v1 and I've been having a lot of success with it. It even fairs well late-game against certain match-ups, the only glaring weakness it really has is the HUGE lack of removal, which is pretty disappointing to say the least, at least it's not very weak to sweepers though thanks to cards like Dauntless Escort and Loxodon Hierarch which have saved me too many times to count, I was honestly pretty shocked to see how many people don't run the Escorts.

I will post my build later when I get a chance to get on the Xbox, I'm pretty satisfied with it thus far I would have a hard time changing anything now, I believe this is the most consistent build I've found for this deck.
I must be the only one here running the Jade Mages and not the Guildmages.

Tokens start coming out the turn after Jade Mage hits the board.  In the later game, I have 3 extra mana more often than I do 4.

This deck has so many other creature pumps the 4mana +1/+1 from the guildmages isn't needed. 

2 overruns, 2 beastmaster ascensions, 2 sigil blessing, Nemata and Verdoloth (if you run those), 2 Intangible Virtues and a Marshal's Anthem, 2 Hero of Bladehold, 2 Leonin Armorguard (again, if you run those), 2 Juniper Order Ranger, Tolsimir, and 2 Wilt Leaf Leige.

If you'll excuse me, I'd rather be pumping out those tokens 1 turn earlier and 2 per turn 2 turns earlier (not counting Parallel Lives) so that I can have more on the board when I run into 1 or 2 of those I listed above.  Of the above, I run 13 of them.  Of those 9 provide permanent buffs which is superior to a 4 mana 1 time buff.

With the exception of 2 toughness, I see no upside to the Guildmages.

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

With the exception of 2 toughness, I see no upside to the Guildmages.



As mentioned earlier, the Guildmages have the benefit of +2/+2 bumps from the Lieges and from Tolsimir. They can be cast with plains or forests, making them easier to play than the Mages. And if you attack with four mana open, the threat of an additional +1/+1 is always present, which can affect how your opponent responds.

The mages, on the other hand, have cheaper token generation. That seems to be their only edge.
Here is what I've had the most success with...

erdana; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"Collective Might" libraryfor Collective Might (Selesnya): 41 picks, 61 cardserdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~BK80BI~~Collective Might~~2=bwaxB~~2=Quk71~~2BJCqq0~~2=RplRS~~2=vVVbn~~1?9K791~~2?RPOKO~~3AnIXbr~~2=PrTxU~~2BqP?nX~~2=VB3f4~~3?JDdWS~~2?VGjWn~~2AojoOw~~2AkCXBO~~2=DMCcy~~2?XWZwM~~2=Qxr0o~~2?Zgt?D~~1?RDevk~~1?cZkC6~~))))))))
erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid rgb(139, 151, 51); border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">   cost   Spell ■■■ Evolving Wilds      cost   Spell ■■ Sprout   ■■ Swords to Plowshares      cost   Creature ■■ Knotvine Paladin  2/2   ■■ Qasali Pridemage  2/2   ■■■ Selesnya Evangel  1/2   ■■ Selesnya Guildmage  2/2  ()() ■ Transluminant  2/2    Spell ■ Eladamri's Call   ■■ Fists of Ironwood   ■■ Intangible Virtue   ■■ Sigil Blessing      cost   Creature ■■ Dauntless Escort  3/3   ■■ Scion of the Wild  */*    Spell ■■ Beastmaster Ascension   ■■ Midnight Haunting      cost   Creature ■■ Hero of Bladehold  3/4   ■■ Loxodon Hierarch  4/4   ■■ Wilt-Leaf Liege  4/4  ()()()  Spell ■ Marshal's Anthem   ■■ Parallel Lives   erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>