Destroying protection

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How does it work of you have something like Everlasting Torment And the Enemy has a Spirit Mantle. Could you still block a pro creature if you can't prevent damage? What about Progy
RPGtable username : RTiger
Everlasting torment only turns of the damage prevention part of protection. A creature with protection from creatures (or everything) still can't be blocked.
All Generalizations are Bad
protection protects from DEBT
Damage
Enchant/Equip
Block
Target

so you cannot block it
but Magma Phoenix could damage it with its death trigger
proud member of the 2011 community team
Similarly, if you decided to block an incoming grizzly bears with Progenitus (or with a creature enchanted by Spirit Mantle), your blocker gets 2 -1/-1 counters.
Similarly, if you decided to block an incoming grizzly bears with Progenitus (or with a creature enchanted by Spirit Mantle), your blocker gets 2 -1/-1 counters.



Are you sure about this? (If you are, than I'm playing something wrong!)

I thought Wither dealt damage in the form of -1/-1 counters. If [C]Progenitus[/C] blocked a [C]Grizzly Bears[/C], the bears would assign no damage. (Protect prevents damage)
So you still need to "deal damage" to place -1/-1 counters, right? 

If I'm wrong on this, sorry! Still working my way through the rules :3

(I remember this because a judge told me you can block a creature with wither with [C]Fog Bank[/C] and Fog Bank wouldn't get counters, because it doesn't get damaged)
Everlasting Torment is in play
that will stop the "D" from DEBT that prevention grants, and turn the damage into -1/-1 counters

if the Torment wasn't in play, you're right
proud member of the 2011 community team
So do Infect and Wither act differently when it comes to damage? (aside from poison counters)

i.e., Wither puts -1/-1, infect deals damage with -1/-1 
Wither and Infect is identical when dealing damage to creatures

also, the important part from Everlasting Torment is "damage can't be prevented", not Wither
Wither or Infect alone doesn't get you around protection
proud member of the 2011 community team
Whoops! Completly missed the "damage can't be prevented" part.

So even with protection your creature would still take damage? (In the form of -1/-1 counters)

Than [C]Tatterkite[/C] would get -1/-1, even though his ability prevents it? 

Alright! Thanks for the clarification +_+

Than [C]Tatterkite[/C] would get -1/-1, even though his ability prevents it? 

no, actually it still wouldn't

Progenitus is dealt damage, normally it's prevented by protection, but Torment says otherwise so it gets damaged by a source with wither and receives -1/-1 counters.

Tatterkite receives damage (it has no protection or prevention), but the damage wants to place -1/-1 counters on it
which it's ability says "I don't think so buddy!" so no counters are placed,
however, the damage was still dealt (even though it didn't do anything)

if the creature dealing the damage had lifelink, he'd still gain life (well except for Torment)
if the creature dealing the damage had deathtouch, Tatterkite would still be destroyed

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DCI #5209514320


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Than [C]Tatterkite[/C] would get -1/-1, even though his ability prevents it?

no, because -1/-1 counters are not damage, so they will still be prevented

proud member of the 2011 community team
2goth4u. 

I fully trust you, but can you tell me why, exactly?

Damage is done through wither, so it is dealt as -1/-1 counters.

Damage can't be prevented.

Tatterkite can't get counters on it.

So Tatterkite's ability prevents damage done by wither/infect.

But damage can't be prevented...

So Tatterkite's has to get -1/-1 counters...

But Tatterkite's ability says No...

 
Can you help me see how, exactly, Tatterkite avoids being damaged?


EDIT:
Ahh, just saw Enigma's post. That makes sense :P
Thanks! 
2goth4u. 

I fully trust you, but can you tell me why, exactly?

Damage is done through wither, so it is dealt as -1/-1 counters.

Damage can't be prevented.

Tatterkite can't get counters on it.

So Tatterkite's ability prevents damage done by wither/infect.

But damage can't be prevented...

So Tatterkite's has to get -1/-1 counters...

But Tatterkite's ability says No...

 
Can you help me see how, exactly, Tatterkite avoids being damaged?


It sounds like semantics, but there is a difference between preventing damage, and disallowing the effects of damage.
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In Everlasting Torment, the Tatterkite reigns supreme. (ok, it still fears the deathtouchers)

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

To break it down minutely, the damage is dealt in three steps. 1) The damage is assigned. 2) The damage is dealt. 3) The damage is converted into its results. Progenitus wants to try to shut down step 2), but Everlasting Torment says it can't, so the damage proceeds all the way to step 3) and manifests as 2 -1/-1 counters. Contrarily, Tatterkite doesn't say anything about step 2) so Everlasting Torment is happy, but when we move to step 3), we try to put 2 -1/-1 on the kite; it says "you can't do that", so we don't.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

it's similar how you still take damage with Platinum Emperion, but lose no life
so it will enable Bloodthirst, but not Rakdos, Lord of Riots

you have to distinguish between damage and the results of that damage
proud member of the 2011 community team
A creature with protection from creatures can't be blocked.



protection protects from DEBT
Block

so you cannot block it



...by/with creatures. You can still block it ina few ways.
you can even block it with creatures
proud member of the 2011 community team
you can even block it with creatures

or Aetherplasm

but the limit in protection is only referring to being declared as a blocker

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

you can even block it with creatures


Cant it only become blocked by creatures (those creatures cannot block it)?

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
yes, protection stops "blocks", not "blocking"
proud member of the 2011 community team