Zac Hill

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Everyone hates this guy. I have never heard of him other than in people's complaints. Can someone grab me some links to get me up to speed? I feel like I'm missing out on the havoc festival.

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

The main grip people have with him comes from two affirmations.

First, he's the one who said that Cavern of Souls was needed to fight against Delver. At the time, those decks played only two or three counters to stop removal and people were pretty pissed off against Cavern who essentially killed the last remnants of control of the last Standard. It helped Delver more than it hurt it.

Second, he's said multiple times that tempo decks such as Faeries and Delver are the same thing as Control, which is why Control was dead last Standard. That has most Control player pissed off because an important archetype is being tossed ot the side for Tempo, which of course doens't play in the same way at all.

So all Control player, by this time, are mightily pissed off.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

In addition to this, he makes up his own terms to describe things to try and make his arguments sound more legit, has a tendency to come off as a pompous ass, and brags about things that many players consider to be bad things for standard.

Oh, he also has trouble admitting when they screw up, unless it has to do with Snapcaster Mage or Control Decks being too good. 

(at)MrEnglish22

It's not just control players who are pissed off.  It's anyone who's played the game for any reasonable length of time and actually like balanced metagames.

Hill has a fairly strongly skewed perception of how to achieve balance within a metagame.  Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, and GoST being printed into a standard environment with Mana Leak and Ponder were pretty huge indicators that R&D were a little out of touch with how metagames operate.  Hell, the printing of Delver period pretty strongly indicates that they're not working under the same "Rock < Paper < Scissors" mentality anymore.  Delver and Snapcaster epitomize aggro-control, which is just a huge **** to control decks when you get the same countermagic, the same card filtering... but you also have a flying Wild Nacatl and the card advantage (Snaps) to get you there.

So they change their design mentality, which hoses up the meta with overpowered blue tempo.

Then they try to "fix" the problem by creating Cavern of Souls, which only achieved making aggressive strategies even more powerful with even less capability of "checks and balances" via control.  They fed the behemoth.

So Zac Hill takes the blame pretty heavily from a lot of players because he writes articles and fires off his mouth with lines that explicitly state his belief in and influence over this new direction.  Defending Cavern, etc. really hits the wrong way.

Here was a couple example articles that boil my blood.  The last line of the first is particularly ironic, for example.

Ah Yes. Very Standard.
www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...

This one defends Cavern and is literally the most (frivolously) infuriated I've ever been at one single human:

Gonna Hate
www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Everyone hates this guy.


It's not just control players who are pissed off.  It's anyone who's played the game for any reasonable length of time and actually like balanced metagames.



People really need to stop saying "everyone" when they really mean "a few people I talked to."
Everyone hates this guy.


It's not just control players who are pissed off.  It's anyone who's played the game for any reasonable length of time and actually like balanced metagames.



People really need to stop saying "everyone" when they really mean "a few people I talked to."



People really need to detect rather obvious uses of hyperbole.

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

I think I just pointed out that I detected it in saying that people should stop doing it.
No, I'm pretty sure everyone is mad at him.

(at)MrEnglish22

I think I just pointed out that I detected it in saying that people should stop doing it.



You're like those teachers who insist you can't put prepositions at the ends of sentences.

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

Suudsu, who are you talking to?

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Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Zac Hill represents pretty much everything I dislike about modern design philosophy.

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No, I'm pretty sure everyone is mad at him.



im not mad at him. he doesnt control me and how i play this game. he doesnt change the fact that i have to deal with certain decks more often than not. I dont even know who he is so i really do not care what he does.
My huge issue with him is that unlike Rosewater or Forscythe, he has no capacity to admit that he was part of creating a mistake. He doesn't own up to the fact that a card like Cavern of Souls was terribly timed, but instead says that it's the fault of people who broke Mana Leak (which is frankly one of the most fair counters in print). Loxodon Smiter and Supreme Verdict (among the rest of the CBC cycle) would have been capable of hosing Delver pre-rotation without upsetting the balance that existed before AVR. Instead of being receptive to his audience, he actively argues with us and deflects our arguments. I think that's terrible business sense, and I'm quite glad that he has left Magic R&D, even though he still pokes his nose into the Magic community.
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To be fair, Zac Hill doesn't really have a particular problem with designing cards. He just doesn't understand several fundamental concepts about formats/environments/archetypes.
People really need to stop saying "everyone" when they really mean "a few people I talked to."



People really need to detect rather obvious uses of hyperbole.


Oh, I was not using hyperbole.  I was not.

Indigo, I mean yeah, the guy is really very good at designing cards.  E.g. Mox Opal.  The card is flawless, from a design perspective.  Not broken, yet playable, inherently powerful, very flavorful. 

He just can't tell what things will DO to a meta.  He lacks all sense of the macro.  His skills don't matter when he can't look at a meta with a historically consistent sense of balance, and can't tell that the cards he thinks it needs will actually crack it wide open.  And then try to fix it by hammering entirely the wrong component of the metagame.


catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
To be fair, Zac Hill doesn't really have a particular problem with designing cards. He just doesn't understand several fundamental concepts about formats/environments/archetypes.


To be fair, he was also a developer, not a designer... and that's the part at which he sucks.

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Suudsu, who are you talking to?



Depends. The OP is just asking all of standard general. The other posts were retorting the guy who doesn't like my exaggerations.

I get the feeling everyone thinks I'm crazy.

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?



I get the feeling everyone thinks I'm crazy.


What are you, nuts?  Nobody thinks you're crazy.

Nobody.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
So I was looking at my PWP for no reason, and realized my two profiles finally merged. But my level didn't go up.

Can I blame Zac Hill for this? 

(at)MrEnglish22

Upheld.  This panel finds that appropriation of guilt appropriate.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I get the feeling everyone thinks I'm crazy.



Crazy? You should put on a pair of Wynzer-goggles some time.
Step 1: Playtest until your mind is numb
Step 2: Make sure you confuse key components of Magic lingo often
Step 3: Overthink EVERYTHING- Edit minimally, and never before pushing the "Submit Post" button
Step 4: Make sure to post often when you're atleast 2 White Russians deep (7-Up and Rum is also acceptable)
Step 5: Make sure to post most often at god awful hours of the morning, when you are obviously incoherent and need to sleep- because making statements doesn't require you to sequence  your terminology correctly, and double checking your application of Magic theory before posting is overrated.

Also- Make sure to forget which days you have class, and stumble in- get great grades on most of the tests but forget projects and busywork until the night before.

xD My kind of insanity reminds me of when Penn Jilette said "Mitt Romney wears magic underpants"

Still, atleast I admit when I hurr and durr- Zac Hill can't even do that!
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He just can't tell what things will DO to a meta.  He lacks all sense of the macro.  His skills don't matter when he can't look at a meta with a historically consistent sense of balance, and can't tell that the cards he thinks it needs will actually crack it wide open.  And then try to fix it by hammering entirely the wrong component of the metagame.




Most people can't tell what certain cards are going to do to a metagame.  It's an insanely difficult thing to predict, and even the professional players and deck builders take a while of actually playing in that metagame to figure it out.  Designers/developers have to work on it years before that metagame even exists.  Even when they want to put in a "quick fix" like they tried with Cavern of Souls they still have to work months ahead of time, so they have to try to predict what the metagame will even look like in the first place.

The way I see it, people are holding R&D to impossible standards, and blaming Zac Hill specifically because it's his name on the article.
It's his name on the article because he wrote it, and it therefore represents his beliefs.  I disagree with his beliefs.  Hence my position.

Here's a question, just as an excercise.  By the way, I'm being really sarcastic.  Just so you know going into this query:  You know the standard metagame contains Mana Leak, Vapor Snag, and Ponder.  Do YOU print Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage?

Let's look at another one.  You know Stoneforge Mystic and Cawblade are dominating standard.  Do YOU print Batterskull?

Let's look at another one.  You know control as an archetype is struggling, and trompy creature decks are taking over.  Do YOU print Cavern of Souls?

Those didn't take a genius, man.  I know things are hypothetical and weird, but it's their JOB.  I'll give R&D credit for not literally crashing the game altogether, which after a while starts to get impressive on its own, but they are most definitely guilty of some profound derps, oversights, and blindnesses.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
The issue I referred to isn't that he doesn't understand the impact his cards will have.

It's that he doesn't know how to analyze the format to see what the problem is. He doesn't understand why archetypes work or don't work, Or even what the archetypes are, and so he prints solutions that solve problems noone had.

He said Control is the same as disruptive Aggro. He defined disruptive aggro as an Aggro deck that runs a noncreature spell that interacts with the opponent. He stated that disruptive aggro and/or control (they're the same, to him) preys on Aggro decks, which is not only untrue in a universal sense but was decidedly untrue in the metagame he was talking about. He then attributed Delver's success to Mana Leak, a card many builds either ran only 2-of, only sideboarded, or didn't run at all. He used this as the justification for printing Cavern of Souls, after saying (accurately) that Delver used mana leak to stop opposing decks from stopping its early lead (by countering sweepers/removal), when Cavern does the exact opposite.

His fundamental lack of understanding about these critical aspects of how metagames and archetypes work lead to him developing the game in the wrong directions, making problems worse rather than better.
The way I see it, people are holding R&D to impossible standards, and blaming Zac Hill specifically because it's his name on the article.

Pretty much, yes. People tend to hold foresight to the same standards as hindsight, and they love shooting messengers.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

It's his name on the article because he wrote it, and it therefore represents his beliefs.  I disagree with his beliefs.  Hence my position.

Here's a question, just as an excercise.  By the way, I'm being really sarcastic.  Just so you know going into this query:  You know the standard metagame contains Mana Leak, Vapor Snag, and Ponder.  Do YOU print Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage?

Let's look at another one.  You know Stoneforge Mystic and Cawblade are dominating standard.  Do YOU print Batterskull?

Let's look at another one.  You know control as an archetype is struggling, and trompy creature decks are taking over.  Do YOU print Cavern of Souls?

Those didn't take a genius, man.  I know things are hypothetical and weird, but it's their JOB.  I'll give R&D credit for not literally crashing the game altogether, which after a while starts to get impressive on its own, but they are most definitely guilty of some profound derps, oversights, and blindnesses.


Sarcastic and inaccurate.

Ponder and Vapor Snag were not considered powerful cards until Delver became a thing.  Even afterwards, they were never really good outside the Delver shell.  Likewise, while I admit I missed the Cawblade era, from what I understand Stoneforge wasn't doing much at all until after Batterskull was released.  Batterskull is what made Stoneforge good, it wasn't one more thing on the pile.  In fact, without Batterskull I doubt she would even see much play in Legacy.

And that all ignores my initial point that these cards are designed so far ahead of time that it's not possible to know anything about the Standard metagame they're going to exist in.  These were not major errors by R&D thinking that the cards would do something different.  At worst, it was a case of not having the resources to find all the interactions that would exist in the format.  Like I said, professional deckbuilders take weeks or months of actually playing in that format, with millions of other people providing constant testing and feedback, to find all those broken interactions.  It's ridiculous to think that a small department of a single company could possibly catch everything that might turn out a little too good.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the man is awesome at what he does.  I don't follow his work enough to argue that one way or the other.  My issue is that you're using flawed logic and bad arguments to make your claim, while asserting it all as fact.
Likewise, while I admit I missed the Cawblade era, from what I understand Stoneforge wasn't doing much at all until after Batterskull was released.  Batterskull is what made Stoneforge good, it wasn't one more thing on the pile.  In fact, without Batterskull I doubt she would even see much play in Legacy.

Your understanding isn't accurate--Cawblade was already dominating Standard before New Phyrexia's release, and Batterskull was just icing on the cake. Sword of Feast and Famine was what really sent it into overdrive, IIRC.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Likewise, while I admit I missed the Cawblade era, from what I understand Stoneforge wasn't doing much at all until after Batterskull was released.  Batterskull is what made Stoneforge good, it wasn't one more thing on the pile.  In fact, without Batterskull I doubt she would even see much play in Legacy.

Your understanding isn't accurate--Cawblade was already dominating Standard before New Phyrexia's release, and Batterskull was just icing on the cake. Sword of Feast and Famine was what really sent it into overdrive, IIRC.


Caw-Blade became a deck because of SoFaF. It became unstoppable with the printing of Batterskull. That card fixed almost every shaky match-up left.

EDIT: And just so we're clear, Delver is a MASSIVE violation of the color pie. That card should never have seen print, and it absolutely should not have seen print with 3 power on the flip.

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Ponder and Vapor Snag were not considered powerful cards until Delver became a thing.  Even afterwards, they were never really good outside the Delver shell.  Likewise, while I admit I missed the Cawblade era, from what I understand Stoneforge wasn't doing much at all until after Batterskull was released.  Batterskull is what made Stoneforge good, it wasn't one more thing on the pile.  In fact, without Batterskull I doubt she would even see much play in Legacy.

And that all ignores my initial point that these cards are designed so far ahead of time that it's not possible to know anything about the Standard metagame they're going to exist in.  These were not major errors by R&D thinking that the cards would do something different.  At worst, it was a case of not having the resources to find all the interactions that would exist in the format.  Like I said, professional deckbuilders take weeks or months of actually playing in that format, with millions of other people providing constant testing and feedback, to find all those broken interactions.  It's ridiculous to think that a small department of a single company could possibly catch everything that might turn out a little too good.



Didn't anyone, anywhere along the line, realize that they were going to be printing Batterskull into a Standard with Stoneforge Mystic, regardless of whether or not SFM had seen play yet? Other than people on both design teams (if there were any people on both), would anyone have a bigger picture knowledge and notice that there could be a problem?
While I find Zac Hill to be a pompous ass, I will say this;

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR R&D TO CATCH EVERYTHING THAT CAN POSSIBLY HAPPEN IN A META.

They are very good, actually extremely good at catching "pushed" cards. Just read some of the articles that MaRo and others write after a new set is released and you'll catch yourself thinking, "wow, that card used to do that!?" Sadly, they DO slip up from time to time, but keep in mind that they can only use their own internal testing group, the Future Future League, to try and gauge the meta. Meanwhile, out here we have millions of people daily trying to break this game and turn it on it's ear. There is no way that they can see eerything. Hell, we're lucky they're even taking other formats into consideration now, because they sure didn't used to. One of the greatest examples of R&D failing to predict a cards impact on the meta was Skull Clamp. Believe it or not, they actually thought they were making it "worse" by changing it from "+1/+1" to "+1/-1".

As for Cavern, It sucks, but we'll push through. Personally, I'll be looking into Mafia Kings 2.0 when Gatecrash comes out. Man I loved that deck.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
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but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
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97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
Meanwhile, out here we have millions of people daily trying to break this game and turn it on it's ear. There is no way that they can see everything.

Of course not. But there's no justification for bad cards like Thragtusk, Cavern of Souls, Delver of Secrets, and honestly, GoST [that card has irked me since the day I saw it in the spoilers - an extremely inelegant, unnecessarily agressive (given its colors) creature] and Snapcaster Mage. I love Snapcaster Mage, but it still doesn't excuse how terrible it is for the game. 

Honestly, I don't even understand FFL. They thought Burning Vengeance was a dominating deck. They think printing narrow answer cards like Izzet Staticaster will answer Lingering Souls. Strictly speaking, most of them are bad players, and bad players with a poor grasp on strategies and what works and what doesn't, can only be so creative with printing efficient answers. Very few decks have been actually shut down because a single hoser card was printed at the right time. It seems like R&D and FFL do not necessarily understand the importance of your deck having a good strategy over having straight up 1-on-1 powerful cards, as such we're left with either useless answer cards (anyone remember Scattershot Archers?) or blunt retarded cards like Cavern or Thragtusk. 

For example, even if we accept the assumption that the reason Mana Leak was good in Delver because it countered creatures - the deck could just shrug and start packing Unsummon instead. Before Thragtusk, there really wasn't much in the format that punished you for bouncing back. 

This is why most hate cards are either terrible designs that somehow R&D thought they'd work and they don't or are ultimately so powerful that they invalidate an entire strategy. Zac Hill doesn't seem to grasp that notion, one which as a player, alone, I can see, looking at a spoiler before the beginning of a new season, spot the awful band-aid fixes R&D has pushed to cover up for their mistakes, acknowledge they'll never see play, which always ends up shocking the folks down at the R&D.
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
^Agree, Nighthavk and Indigo.  "Inelegant" is a perfect way to describe things of late.  I'm SOOO tired of Thragtusk already.  Goddammit.  Then I'll gain five life.  No, I'LL gain five life.  Fine, Bonfire you.  Noooo, Bonfire YOU!  Standard is so intellectual, y'know?


Sarcastic and inaccurate.

Ponder and Vapor Snag were not considered powerful cards until Delver became a thing.  Even afterwards, they were never really good outside the Delver shell.  Likewise, while I admit I missed the Cawblade era, from what I understand Stoneforge wasn't doing much at all until after Batterskull was released.  Batterskull is what made Stoneforge good, it wasn't one more thing on the pile.  In fact, without Batterskull I doubt she would even see much play in Legacy.


Wow, yeah, WHO was inaccurate?  You should stop. 

And that all ignores my initial point that these cards are designed so far ahead of time that it's not possible to know anything about the Standard metagame they're going to exist in.  These were not major errors by R&D thinking that the cards would do something different.  ...


You are just sooo far off.  There's a whole division of Wizards set up to test and examine EXACTLY what a future format might be like.  Those guys know, basically card for card, what a standard environment will be, months and months and months before a set is released.  So yeah, it's possible to know something about the standard metagame.  Also the examples I gave directly demonstrated examples of an established meta into which R&D pushed cards that were clearly, CLEARLY unhealthy.

I don't follow his work enough to argue that one way or the other.  My issue is that you're using flawed logic and bad arguments to make your claim, while asserting it all as fact.


I can't take any of your statements seriously if, after an extensive argument clearly arguing one way or the other, you deny any knowledge of what you're talking about.  I'm sorry if you don't know what you're talking about and are thus confused, but my arguments were perfectly logical and factually defensible.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
^Agree, Nighthavk and Indigo.  "Inelegant" is a perfect way to describe things of late.  I'm SOOO tired of Thragtusk already.  Goddammit.  Then I'll gain five life.  No, I'LL gain five life.  Fine, Bonfire you.  Noooo, Bonfire YOU!  Standard is so intellectual, y'know?

There's still room to wiggle, but I miss the days when not missing an attack with a blank Goblin Welder mattered. 

The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet

I agree with Kedi

Now for a WALL OF QUOTES!!!


xD My kind of insanity reminds me of when Penn Jilette said "Mitt Romney wears magic underpants"

Still, atleast I admit when I hurr and durr- Zac Hill can't even do that!



You know, this post explains a lot about you.



Most people can't tell what certain cards are going to do to a metagame. It's an insanely difficult thing to predict, and even the professional players and deck builders take a while of actually playing in that metagame to figure it out. Designers/developers have to work on it years before that metagame even exists. Even when they want to put in a "quick fix" like they tried with Cavern of Souls they still have to work months ahead of time, so they have to try to predict what the metagame will even look like in the first place.

The way I see it, people are holding R&D to impossible standards, and blaming Zac Hill specifically because it's his name on the article.



There's actually a subset of people in the MTG community called "speculators" who get all their trade value off being able to figure out which cards will be good in a meta and which won't. Its not nearly as hard as you make it out to be. It just requires a specific perspective.
R&D is held to very high standards. For good reason. Too many consecutive bad seasons can ruin this entire game.





Ponder and Vapor Snag were not considered powerful cards until Delver became a thing. Even afterwards, they were never really good outside the Delver shell. Likewise, while I admit I missed the Cawblade era, from what I understand Stoneforge wasn't doing much at all until after Batterskull was released. Batterskull is what made Stoneforge good, it wasn't one more thing on the pile. In fact, without Batterskull I doubt she would even see much play in Legacy.


And that all ignores my initial point that these cards are designed so far ahead of time that it's not possible to know anything about the Standard metagame they're going to exist in. These were not major errors by R&D thinking that the cards would do something different. At worst, it was a case of not having the resources to find all the interactions that would exist in the format. Like I said, professional deckbuilders take weeks or months of actually playing in that format, with millions of other people providing constant testing and feedback, to find all those broken interactions. It's ridiculous to think that a small department of a single company could possibly catch everything that might turn out a little too good.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the man is awesome at what he does. I don't follow his work enough to argue that one way or the other. My issue is that you're using flawed logic and bad arguments to make your claim, while asserting it all as fact.



1) People have known Ponder was good for a long time. Flat out wrong about that. Ponder is good outside the Delver shell.
2) Stoneforge fetching Sword of Feast and Famine is a very big play. If you had played at all during ZEN you would know this.
3) They know plenty well which cards will make an impact. Its generally the cards they CHOOSE to make an impact.
4) Don't talk out of your rear about things you don't know.

One of the greatest examples of R&D failing to predict a cards impact on the meta was Skull Clamp. Believe it or not, they actually thought they were making it "worse" by changing it from "+1/+1" to "+1/-1".



This, along with JTMS are both good examples of cards they changed very late into the production cycle and had little time to test. I remember when the 'clamp first got spoiled by (I think) Randy, calling in my older brother who still played Magic at the time, and telling him how strong this card was. He brushed me off.
I also remember telling my friends that Caw-Blade was the best deck in standard when it got its first top 8. They didn't believe me.
 

(at)MrEnglish22

I think it is a bit ignorant to pile all of this responsibility on this one writer/R&D person. I've always liked Zac Hill. I don't blame him for not being a bit more "humbled" in writing on mistakes. The forums simply use it as fuel in conversations just like this. So, I just want Zac to know if he is out there anywhere reading the wails of this lynch mob, we don't all feel that way.

Also, I like what is going on right now with the traditional triad/rock, paper, scissors power schema. It was getting too predictable. I've seen the same "whiners" here complaining about the antiquated opinions of players that haven't been on board since legacy and here they are doing the same. Challenge yourselfs every once in a while and look on the horizon. Thragtusk won't be this good forever and even as good as it is now, it is still very beatable. You guys realize that mid-range is good now? When has it ever been good?!? It's been a horrible deck choice for like the past 10 years as we all laughed at 4-5 mana drops. It's been stupid to neglect the archtype for as long as we have.

I think these are positive shifts and I actually expect more to have gradually over time. I think people need to accept that and quit complaining like a bunch of old men reflecting on $.05 sodas and other nostalgia from a time lost on these modern folk.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

I think it is a bit ignorant to pile all of this responsibility on this one writer/R&D person. I've always liked Zac Hill. I don't blame him for not being a bit more "humbled" in writing on mistakes. The forums simply use it as fuel in conversations just like this. So, I just want Zac to know if he is out there anywhere reading the wails of this lynch mob, we don't all feel that way.

Also, I like what is going on right now with the traditional triad/rock, paper, scissors power schema. It was getting too predictable. I've seen the same "whiners" here complaining about the antiquated opinions of players that haven't been on board since legacy and here they are doing the same. Challenge yourselfs every once in a while and look on the horizon. Thragtusk won't be this good forever and even as good as it is now, it is still very beatable. You guys realize that mid-range is good now? When has it ever been good?!? It's been a horrible deck choice for like the past 10 years as we all laughed at 4-5 mana drops. It's been stupid to neglect the archtype for as long as we have.

I think these are positive shifts and I actually expect more to have gradually over time. I think people need to accept that and quit complaining like a bunch of old men reflecting on $.05 sodas and other nostalgia from a time lost on these modern folk.



This Standard is the best since I've started playing Standard back in Zen/Mirrodin (Caw!). The comments most people are infuriated with are pre-RTR.

The problem I have is that he seems to have a lot of trouble in understanding what players want. How many players like to play Control? For the whole length of the Innistrad/Scars Standard, it has been impossible to play a good control deck. First it was tokens, then Delver... It has been hell for Control. How would people feel if aggro strategies were dumped for a whole year? There has to be, in a given time of Magic, both Aggro and Control decks that can be played, else the meta is either too slow or too fast. This is coming from someone who still played a subpar deck because he hates aggro for a whole year.

And then, we get Cavern of Souls, which basically reads "I hope you don't want to play counterspells" and the nixing of Mana Leak.

Also, the idea that Tempo is the same as Control is ridiculous and seriously infuriating to someone who plays Control. I mean damn, how difficult is it to understand that playing a small creature and denying your opponent the menas to answer it is the same as fighting to stabilizing and dropping fatties? If anything, Tempo looks like Aggro, not Control! I like my games to last more than 4-5 turns, but a meta where Control is replaced by Tempo looks more like Aggro-Aggro-Aggro.

Now, though, every archetype is viable. Aggro, Midrange, Control, Tempo, even multiple versions of each. This is a great time to play Standard. I love what RTR brought. I love how seriously good answers like D-Sphere have to be carefully considered, given the amount of effective hate. I love the amount of competitive decks.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

I think it is a bit ignorant to pile all of this responsibility on this one writer/R&D person. I've always liked Zac Hill. I don't blame him for not being a bit more "humbled" in writing on mistakes. The forums simply use it as fuel in conversations just like this. So, I just want Zac to know if he is out there anywhere reading the wails of this lynch mob, we don't all feel that way.

Also, I like what is going on right now with the traditional triad/rock, paper, scissors power schema. It was getting too predictable. I've seen the same "whiners" here complaining about the antiquated opinions of players that haven't been on board since legacy and here they are doing the same. Challenge yourselfs every once in a while and look on the horizon. Thragtusk won't be this good forever and even as good as it is now, it is still very beatable. You guys realize that mid-range is good now? When has it ever been good?!? It's been a horrible deck choice for like the past 10 years as we all laughed at 4-5 mana drops. It's been stupid to neglect the archtype for as long as we have.

I think these are positive shifts and I actually expect more to have gradually over time. I think people need to accept that and quit complaining like a bunch of old men reflecting on $.05 sodas and other nostalgia from a time lost on these modern folk.



This Standard is the best since I've started playing Standard back in Zen/Mirrodin (Caw!). The comments most people are infuriated with are pre-RTR.

The problem I have is that he seems to have a lot of trouble in understanding what players want. How many players like to play Control? For the whole length of the Innistrad/Scars Standard, it has been impossible to play a good control deck. First it was tokens, then Delver... It has been hell for Control. How would people feel if aggro strategies were dumped for a whole year? There has to be, in a given time of Magic, both Aggro and Control decks that can be played, else the meta is either too slow or too fast. This is coming from someone who still played a subpar deck because he hates aggro for a whole year.

And then, we get Cavern of Souls, which basically reads "I hope you don't want to play counterspells" and the nixing of Mana Leak.

Also, the idea that Tempo is the same as Control is ridiculous and seriously infuriating to someone who plays Control. I mean damn, how difficult is it to understand that playing a small creature and denying your opponent the menas to answer it is the same as fighting to stabilizing and dropping fatties? If anything, Tempo looks like Aggro, not Control! I like my games to last more than 4-5 turns, but a meta where Control is replaced by Tempo looks more like Aggro-Aggro-Aggro.

Now, though, every archetype is viable. Aggro, Midrange, Control, Tempo, even multiple versions of each. This is a great time to play Standard. I love what RTR brought. I love how seriously good answers like D-Sphere have to be carefully considered, given the amount of effective hate. I love the amount of competitive decks.



All of this. I'm pretty sure that on the list of "people I agree with most" Dilleux is number one.

(at)MrEnglish22

Also, I like what is going on right now with the traditional triad/rock, paper, scissors power schema. It was getting too predictable.

There is no triad to speak of right now. There are Thragtusk control decks (Bant), Thragtusk Midrange (Jund), Thragtusk Combo (Reanimator). This is just three facades of the same deck.
Thragtusk won't be this good forever and even as good as it is now, it is still very beatable.

Cavern of Souls is keeping true control being a real deck with all the annoying aggro decks running rampant. Thus it creates a field that Thragtusk is very happy to prey on. Only counterspells effectively neutralize Thragtusk; and even then, there's absolutely no reason to not run your own Thragtusks (Bant Control).
 You guys realize that mid-range is good now? When has it ever been good?!? It's been a horrible deck choice for like the past 10 years as we all laughed at 4-5 mana drops. It's been stupid to neglect the archtype for as long as we have.

RGD - Hand in Hand, Ghazi-Glare (Best decks in the format) Four drops: Ghost Council of Orzhova, Loxodon Hierarch. Five drops: Kodama of the North Tree
Lorwyn: Doran Junk, GB Elves, Boros Boat, B/W Tokens. Four drops: Chameleon Colossus, Mistbind Clique, Murderous Redcap, Ranger of Eos. Five Drops: Reveillark, Seige-Gang Commander, Mulldrifter. Six drop: Cloudthresher.
Shards: Jund (Best deck of the format). Four drops: Bloodbraid Elf, Master of the Wild Hunt

I think these are positive shifts and I actually expect more to have gradually over time. I think people need to accept that and quit complaining like a bunch of old men reflecting on $.05 sodas and other nostalgia from a time lost on these modern folk.


If mid range needs 5 mana creatures, potentially uncounterable, that gain a huge life swing vs aggro and is always a net card advantage to be good, then I don't want midrange to be good. 

Making midrange too good is a dangerous zone, much like aggro-control. Midrange is essentially a less dedicated aggro-control deck with larger bodies and less combo/control disruption. Let us all remember that JTMS got banned and during Jund domination, it wasn't even a card. That speaks volumes.

In many ways, you can compare Thragtusk to Bloodbraid Elf - always a net card advantage, a card you have no reason not to play. It's not as inherently powerful as Bloodbraid Elf, but even then, aggro decks could actually race Jund decks - PVDDR made T8 in a GP with Boros Aggro. 

13, I usually respect your opinion, but you're making ignorant claims, such as mid-range not being a good deck in 10 years. Mid range didn't even use to exist in the sense we speak of it today (Though Necro and Baron decks can classify as the mid range decks of their era) just like prior to RDW during Rath era, Red Aggro didn't exist, except for Sligh briefly being a thing. The reason is that the cards and the strategies were vastly different.
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
This Standard is the best since I've started playing Standard back in Zen/Mirrodin (Caw!).

That's why you think this is a good format because you haven't seen a format any different. I've been playing T2 since Rath cycle. It does get better than Thragtusks raging against one another and Terminus/Bonfire lottery jackpots left and right.

The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
I have to agree with kedi in that Standard can be a lot better.... I restarted in Lorwyn / Timespiral and even though Faeries was a thing, it was very attackable from a lot of different angles and careful play. It simply preyed on bad players and lack of understanding of the rules. I had originally played Standard from its creation (original concept of 5 cards from each of the latest sets) through to hmmm... Invasion I think.

Jund is where things started getting out of hand again for me... and caw-blade just made me not want to play magic since there were almost no other viable construction angles. 

I do feel there's a lot of room for innovation now and there's a counter deck that's overdue to re-appear. We just don't know where to run with it just yet.

It's going to have to run Ghost Quarters and some other clever way to play around Cavern, probably be just 2 colors as a result, and fling Snapcaster and 7+ permissions around. 

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That's why you think this is a good format because you haven't seen a format any different. I've been playing T2 since Rath cycle. It does get better than Thragtusks raging against one another and Terminus/Bonfire lottery jackpots left and right.




That is a subjective opinion though. It seems here a lot of the grumpy comes from Cavern of Souls and its contribution to "ruining" control. First, I don't see Caverns heavily played, color fixing is tightening mana bases and creature types are getting diverse. I see caverns in human, wizard, and zombie decks. These do not seem subject to the current complaints. Simply put, the reins on control is making Caverns less maindeck worthy. If it is sideboarded, it is hardly different than other "anti-counter" cards.

Also, people are still playing (and winning tournaments) with WUR, zombies, and mid-range Exalted Angel builds. Sure this isn't the traditional control desired by the board, but it makes more than a fair argument against the meta being nothing but Thragtusks. Many of the mid-range Tusks decks "eat it" to Rakdos's Return as well, this is something easily playable in Grixis. While it is less effective against reanimator builds, it wallops Bant and Selesnya.

I've said for some time that the future of control may be in milling (another formerly terrible archtype.) It is something that typically doesn't care about life totals. As far as your defense of other good mid-range decks, I'll only give you Jund and Reveillark there. The remaining decks were always just "fun" decks that typically got spanked by the aggro and control decks of the time.



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