How to beat self-mill decks

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I have a friend who has two self-mill decks, one centered around splinterfright and another centered around lumberknot. How would I go about building a deck that specifically defeats those decks? I was thinking about using Tormod's Crypt from M13, but I haven't a clue as to how to beat the decks. Any ideas would be highly appreciated.
Instead of building a deck to just go against his self-mill decks, try sideboarding in a set of Tormod's Crypt into your normal decks. If you run black you can also go with Bojuka Bog To get some extra exile. There's also Thraben Heretic in white, but she's slower than the other options. Or you could just go about killing his big creatures.

One other option is to fight fire with fire, sort of speak. Run your own greaveyard-happy deck with cards like Mortivore and Bonehoard. Let him fuel your field as well. then it can be a clash of the dead-loving titans! Oh, and you could use Liliana Vess or Grimoire of the Dead to take every critter from his 'yard and plop em on your field. That should stop him right quick!

"Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this."

Cards like Barter in Blood get around Lumberknot's hexproof. Trinket Mage is able to fetch Crypt among other useful things, though I'd recommend Relic of Progenitus since it draws you a card and can be used to constantly lock down his graveyard by tapping it. You can kill Splinterfright with your standard black and white removal spells usually, bounce and counters are options in blue, and Trinket Mage can even fetch Brittle Effigy which does the job. In white you can use something like Day of Judgment instead of Barter to deal with his hexproof guy. In blue another option is just to stick a Fog Bank in front of his creatures. Evasion like flying, intimidate, and shadow works for getting around the opposing creatures.
Leyline of the Void. If you have too you can mill to a card and play it in your opening hand every time. Not recomanded but it can save you.
@raginggoblingrenade: I'm building a deck specifically targeting his self-mill decks. While I know it's not necessary, I want a specific deck built against self-mill.
@Sleeping: I don't exactly know what type of deck I'm running as of yet. That's one of the reasons why I made this thread. If anything, I want the deck to be fast, so red will probably make its way into the deck.
Is he playing Laboratory Maniac as an alternate win-con?
If not, Tormods Crypt or Rest in Peace are great options.

.....or you race them, play Dredge and show them how to do it properly - Dredge is a great deck against many different matchup's
Lol @slave telling the newbie to play dredge...hahaha! Like that will fly.

And luluemon. Don't build a deck just to solely fight another one. That is super lame. Cuz then all he has to do is say switch to something like RDW and he will hose you. Build a deck that is actually good and can handle a self-mill deck with sideboard pieces. I'd recommend either a super fast aggro route or control.
@slave: he used to have laboratory maniac as an alternate win, but no longer. I was thinking about dredge, but I'm not sure if I like it or not. I have to continue playing the one I have constructed some more before I can make a decision.
@jnp5021: I know I sound like a newbie and I kind of am >\\<. I only built 7 decks so far and they all worked pretty well. The reason why I'm building such a specific deck is because I just want to. It's only for casual play and just to spite my friend a bit because he usually wins against me. He's doing the same against my red/black vampires deck. I am considering the fast aggro deck, but haven't made a decision yet. I already have a control deck, but I don't usually use it because I haven't refined it.
First up-being new is totally fine-I didn't mean to offend you; if I have, my apologies.

I understand wanting to spite your friend and build the "anti" deck to his cuz you are tired of getting beaten. I'm telling you though, doing that severely limits your ability to grow and learn proper deck building.

Let me put it this way; you are limiting your own growth by taking the easy way out. It's EASY to build an anti-deck. Grab all the hate pieces you can and win. But like I said, you will lose when he switches decks because you are so finely tuned for 1 deck. You are also being REACTIVE instead of PROACTIVE. Force him to play your game, to switch his plays for your end game, make him work for it.

Building a real deck that seeks to win, not "plays not to lose", is not hard and it sounds like you are on the path already with some of your other decks. So lets see what you are working with, say, with control (my favorite), and build a deck that not only beats his, but also beats other decks.

We can also do aggro, cuz it tends to be more budget friendly than control (if that's an issue)
I agree completely with jnp5021. It's not worth it to go and buy/trade to get cards for a narrow-purpose deck. It's better to have some general "hate" in each deck you build. I usually have between 8-10 cards in my decks meant to control my opponent's actions in some way (either counter, kill, pacify, protect, etc). Learning to build more adaptable decks will improve your games and your chances of winning.

"Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this."

I also pretty much agree with jnp5021, however, I do feel your urge to do this.
And let me reassure you, that sideboarding "anti-graveyard" stuff is more than enough to put his deck off.
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You have like 7 decks or so? Create a competitive deck of your own, then run some graveyard hate as a sideboard. Boom, you have a deck against his self-mill decks, and if he decides to switch decks, then just turn your deck back to normal.
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I also want to point out that creating an "anti-deck" doesn't necessarily limit growth. I do not encourage it, since it's "kill-joy", but it's in fact quite amusing to do. Since, you'll be analyzing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses, it's a rather fruitful exercise.
Then again, practice this exercise moderately, because creating a "hate-deck" isn't health for playing this game.
Once in a while it's understandable. Like if your friend's really dominating you, through and through, and consistently, then it's fine, but I repeat, do not do this often, since it might just incite your friend to stop playing with you....
OR
you can get a taste of your own medicine (meaning that he can also make an anti-deck of his own.
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It's a vicious cycle. I'm repeating myself, and forgive me for that, but it's so you can't say that you haven't been warned :P
@jnp5021: There was no offense taken so don't worry about it. I'm only building this deck out of fun. It's not meant to be used for any other purposes. That's the only reason I'm building this deck. I understand that it would be better to get an adaptable deck, but I already have those. So I'm just building this out of fun >\\<
@dabok: I know xD. My friend and I agreed to do it for fun xD. We won't always be using it since it is a killjoy xD. But we want to make one for each other just to see how it goes.
Ah! Then my idea's even better. You just make your "normal", solid, strong deck and have a "nasty sideboard".
So, he'll end up doing an anti-anti-deck (if that makes sense?) which is actually ineffective against your "normal" deck xD.
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You devious people.
alright, I'm actually gonna listen to what you're saying and help you out.

The meanest way to beat a self-mill deck? a straight-up mill deck. just build a deck that really mills him, and you'll see him mill himself out more often than not.

a good shell is U/B with Mortivore, Mind Funeral, Glimpse the Unthinkable (if you can afford them) and as someone suggested, Wall of Fog.

Include a decent control suite, which consists of card draw, counterspells and bounce, and you will either mill him really fast, or stick him with doing nothing for fear of losing.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
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97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
That's the problem xD. My decks aren't fast enough to deal with his decks. So that's why I want to build a new, faster one.
Or build Mono-White enchantments with Rest in Peace and Wheel of Sun and Moon.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
I don't want to spend too much money on it since it won't be used very much. I'm only building it for **** and giggles. So maybe $1 or $2 is fine, but over that, no can do. But thanks for your advice JaketheLate.
4x leyline of the void
4x tormod's crypt
4x nihil spellbomb
3x liliana of the dark realms
4x mutilate
4x cremate
4x [c]vile rebirth[/c[
4x shimian specter
4x dismember
4x geth's verdict
2x consume spirit

There's a monoblack idea. Take what you want. That will hose his GY, kill his dudes (or force the sac). Lilly will power out your swamps and then finish him off with a huge consume spirit for the win
Yeah, maybe suggesting Dredge was a bit rich - it's not the cheapest option going around....


Another idea might be a Green/Black deck that wants to kill it own creatures and stop your opponent having any creatures at all.
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Bloodghast
4 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Young Wolf  
2 Vengeful Pharaoh for defence against your mates fatties - just make sure it's in the GY.
4 Grave Pact
4 Skullclamp
4 Innocent Blood and maybe also Barter in Blood.
Manabase all basic lands with 4 Evolving Wilds & 4 Terramorphic Expanse for 'ghast-love, Buried Alive to get them there.
This way you just keep sacrificing everything to the Pact, and eventually he'll be out of creature-based ways to hurt you.
Win con could be 2 Ashnod's Altar into 3 Exsanguinate, or a fatty like Harvester of Souls.
Or you could just steal his big fatties with 2 or 3 Helm of Possession and use them against him instead?
Undead Alchemist would mill him and take away the creature cards going into his graveyard.

Just a random card.

personally I'd just run wheel of sun and moon  in a WU control shell. my two cents.
Woot! Go RED! I love red! Red is awesome! Did I mention I love red?
those personality things
Suprisingly enough, in that test, I'm not red I am White/Black
I am White/Black
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56778328 wrote:
Why did you post it here? "Hey, all you guys who play this game! I'm not gonna play it!" "Umm... Ok, dude."
There's a card from Zendikar, black, that totally kills mill. Forces the opponent to lose 2 life each time he or she put a card into the graveyard from anywhere. Glad to help
I am White/Green
I am White/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
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I am both orderly and instinctive. I value community and group identity, defining myself by the social group I am a part of. At best, I'm selfless and strong-willed; at worst, I'm unoriginal and mindless.
There's a card from Zendikar, black, that totally kills mill. Forces the opponent to lose 2 life each time he or she put a card into the graveyard from anywhere. Glad to help



Bloodchief Ascension?
Ascension in deck with loads of Leeching/Burn spells with Glacial Chasm to protect yourself works a treat with Mindcrank.
Just a question: how does lumberknot work in a self mill? Creatures placed into the graveyard from a library are not dead and therefore do not contribute to its power unlike, say, lhurgoyf. Am I right?
Like someone else said, play straight-up mill. Controlling his creatures or Prisoning him will work also, I think, against his finishers.
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alright, I'm actually gonna listen to what you're saying and help you out.

The meanest way to beat a self-mill deck? a straight-up mill deck. just build a deck that really mills him, and you'll see him mill himself out more often than not.

a good shell is U/B with Mortivore, Mind Funeral, Glimpse the Unthinkable (if you can afford them) and as someone suggested, Wall of Fog.

Include a decent control suite, which consists of card draw, counterspells and bounce, and you will either mill him really fast, or stick him with doing nothing for fear of losing.


Hedron Crab is nasty with any fetchlands, Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse being the cheap ones. If he is running tutors or fetches of his own then Archive Trap is nasty. I would run Mind Sculpt over Glimpse the Unthinkable because it's not much worse, easier on your mana, and costs 35¢ vice $15.99 (coolstuffinc.com). Also some generally good cards that hate on it without being too obnoxius are Memoricide and Surgical Extraction.

57170298 wrote:
Borrowing the East Wind (P3) - Haha, it's like Hurricane but for horsemanship? That makes hilariously little sense. "Oh man, the wind is so much worse up on this horse."
57044478 wrote:
Jon Finkel can win a Magic tournament with a ham sandwich. That doesn't mean ham sandwiches are now the metagame breaker.
97820278 wrote:
Koth: I'm the first viable red planeswalker. Who are you? Tibalt: I'm a two-mana red planeswalker. Koth: I'm the last viable red planeswalker.
Leyline of the Void and Helm of Obedience lets you mill out an entire deck in one shot, as the Void ensures the Helm never shuts off.

Add Tinker or the better black tutors to find it quickly.

Cheers!
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