Power Creep

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The game is evolving, no doubt about that. Nobody likes vanilla creatures, and even more so when they are under the ideal p/t ratio, i.e. Grizzly Bears, Goblin Piker. Furthur more, when was the last time Runeclaw Bear found its way into any tournament, no matter what color skin it might have been wearing.

Some cards need to be weaker then others, and vanilla creatures are at the bottem of the barrel. It helps take the burden from the demand of a massive pile of new cards, in a card game that has been around since 1993.

What I am propsing is giving greens vanilla creatures a stronger p/t ratio then their cmc. :G: for an 8/8 vanilla wouldn't see play in constructed. But a 3/3 for :G: might, while a 4/4 for :G: might not. I beleive the safest way to introduce this new curve is at + cmc, while working our way down over the sets to the Watchwolf area, and finally breaking into Isamaru, Hound of Konda.

Goblin Guide is arguably a 2/2 haste for :R: with no drawback. Would a vanilla 2/2 for :G: see play? It might, it might not. Starting the transition at will smooth things out, and give us time to get us use to it.

Note that the only color to get this new standard would be green. That would add more definition to the color pie about its love for big creatures. It would also improve upon the stronger cards green has, you would see more cards with 1 or 2 positive abilitys with over the top cmc p/t ratios, but only in green. This would also have a minor effect on the other colors creatures, as they would have more room to be bigger without trying to compete with green.

Green does not get any creature removal or board wipes. So its the color that needs the biggest creatures. Well let me know what you guys think, agree or disagree?
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Green already gets 5/5s for 4 with no downside.

also Goblin Guide definitely has drawbacks.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I like vanilla creatures.

Goblin Guide has downsides. He can only be played effectively in the fastest of decks. If your deck is too slow for Guide he actually becomes a burden because your opponent is paying life for cards which is generally a pretty good thing for them.


Green has Garruk's Companion and Leatherback Baloth, which I think were attempting to follow your idea somewhat. They are solidified as green monsters since you can't splash them, and they both have power greater than their CMC and an additional upside. The same is true for Dryad Militant from Return to Ravnica.


Green gets removal now. in M12 it had Arachnus Web and in M13 it had Prey Upon. Though these removal spells are much like red's removal spells, they are limited by the size of the beast, and red's can at least hit players which is very important outside of control and combo decks.


Goblin Guide has downsides. He can only be played effectively in the fastest of decks. If your deck is too slow for Guide he actually becomes a burden because your opponent is paying life for cards which is generally a pretty good thing for them.


Green has Garruk's Companion and Leatherback Baloth, which I think were attempting to follow your idea somewhat. They are solidified as green monsters since you can't splash them, and they both have power greater than their CMC and an additional upside. The same is true for Dryad Militant from Return to Ravnica.


Green gets removal now. in M12 it had Arachnus Web and in M13 it had Prey Upon. Though these removal spells are much like red's removal spells, they are limited by the size of the beast, and red's can at least hit players which is very important outside of control and combo decks.




Arachnus Web is the way white would. Fight could be red.

I'd say for the most part, power's just moving around. So Counterspell's gone, but Snapcaster Mage is a thing.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt

Goblin Guide has downsides. He can only be played effectively in the fastest of decks. If your deck is too slow for Guide he actually becomes a burden because your opponent is paying life for cards which is generally a pretty good thing for them.


Green has Garruk's Companion and Leatherback Baloth, which I think were attempting to follow your idea somewhat. They are solidified as green monsters since you can't splash them, and they both have power greater than their CMC and an additional upside. The same is true for Dryad Militant from Return to Ravnica.


Green gets removal now. in M12 it had Arachnus Web and in M13 it had Prey Upon. Though these removal spells are much like red's removal spells, they are limited by the size of the beast, and red's can at least hit players which is very important outside of control and combo decks.




Arachnus Web is the way white would. Fight could be red.

I'd say for the most part, power's just moving around. So Counterspell's gone, but Snapcaster Mage is a thing.



It may be white in form, but my point was that in a real game of Magic it functions like most red removal (burn), bad to big beasts and buff magic. White actually focuses on the oposite often, like with Selesnya Charm and Smite the Monstrous, killing only large creatures. Though it does get effects that destroy creatures under a certain power as well.
Four words:



Call of the Conclave.
Four words:



Call of the Conclave.


Watchwolf will be over here crying in the corner if you need him.


Meanwhile, Quilled Slagwurm may cost but it IS a 7 mana 8/8 in green. at and a rarity bump you can get Terra Stomper, which is not only 8/8, but also comes with trample and uncounterability as added bonuses.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
So you are proposing that green gets better P/T per mana in exchange for vanilla-ness? I think they already have that if I'm not mistaken.

Four words:
Call of the Conclave.


That's white. If you count white there's Knight of the Reliquary, who gets rather ridiculous with fetches. Speaking of fetches and big "vanilla" green creatures, there's old Goyf, who can very reliably be a 3/4+.

It may be white in form, but my point was that in a real game of Magic it functions like most red removal (burn), bad to big beasts and buff magic. White actually focuses on the oposite often, like with Selesnya Charm and Smite the Monstrous, killing only large creatures. Though it does get effects that destroy creatures under a certain power as well.



White gets Arrest-like effects, though, and since this is strictly worse Arrest (which is fine with me; I don't like green having creature removal in the first place), that's why I say it's white. You'll notice most white creature removal is temporary. Pacifism, Arrest, Oblivion Ring...

Beast Within and Mercy Killing also fill white's part of the pie, judging by Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile.

Fight, by contrast, is . It fits green very easily (since it's still creatures killing creatures, something green has no problem with; and it still has an "only the strong survive" flavor). But it also has a history in red, from (gameplay-wise) Fling to Tahngarth, Talruum Hero. Fight is better than Fling, if you isolate everything else, since your creature can survive. (I know, Savra, Queen of the Golgari and lifelink say otherwise.)

Four words:



Call of the Conclave.



Beastmaster Ascension was better, IMO. It costs three, but it can come online fairly easily in a token deck, and once active, it automatically gives decks that use Naya's "power 5 or greater" theme a boost, even with a piddly Birds of Paradise being a 5/6.

So you are proposing that green gets better P/T per mana in exchange for vanilla-ness? I think they already have that if I'm not mistaken.



Somewhat. Diregraf Ghoul is basically vanilla, and Elite Vanguard is vanilla, but until Dryad Militant, I wasn't sure green got something as good as the Vanguard.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I believe Diregraf Ghoul is considered Soviet vanilla. 

White gets Arrest-like effects, though, and since this is strictly worse Arrest (which is fine with me; I don't like green having creature removal in the first place), that's why I say it's white. You'll notice most white creature removal is temporary. Pacifism, Arrest, Oblivion Ring...


I know that. You're completely missing the point. I was specifically saying that Wizards is justifying green removal by making it care about the size of creatures, like red's primary source of removal (burn) does. I did not say Arachnus Web should be a red spell, Jesus Christ.

But it also has a history in red, from (gameplay-wise) Fling to Tahngarth, Talruum Hero. Fight is better than Fling, if you isolate everything else, since your creature can survive. (I know, Savra, Queen of the Golgari and lifelink say otherwise.)


Fling is usually used in an aggro-midrange deck to hit players. Unless that's what you meant by "isolate everything else". You can Fling at creatures, but they are the less likely of the two targets.

Beastmaster Ascension was better, IMO. It costs three, but it can come online fairly easily in a token deck, and once active, it automatically gives decks that use Naya's "power 5 or greater" theme a boost, even with a piddly Birds of Paradise being a 5/6.


Why are you comparing a token Watchwolf to a massive buildaroundme card? They are totally different.

Somewhat. Diregraf Ghoul is basically vanilla, and Elite Vanguard is vanilla, but until Dryad Militant, I wasn't sure green got something as good as the Vanguard.


Jungle Lion comes close, and Nettle Sentinel is actually much better (in a green aggro deck it is a 2/2 vigilance and sometimes better, in an elves deck it can do rediculous tappy things).

I believe Diregraf Ghoul is considered Soviet vanilla. 



Yeah, because we all need to block on turn 1.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I believe Diregraf Ghoul is considered Soviet vanilla. 



Yeah, because we all need to block on turn 1.


one-drops: only playable turn 1.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I believe Diregraf Ghoul is considered Soviet vanilla. 



Yeah, because we all need to block on turn 1.


one-drops: only playable turn 1.

 



I'm still waiting on my 2/2 for which says "You may only cast this on turn one."
I believe Diregraf Ghoul is considered Soviet vanilla. 



Yeah, because we all need to block on turn 1.



Goblin Guide says hello. Besides, my point is that it's an otherwise vanilla creature that has a drawback. That's what Soviet vanilla is, as far as I know.
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