10/12/2012 LD: "Survey Says"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Latest Developments, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
What is the "forbidden mechanic"?
As a player that can't leave his home, I only play online and do so since 2005.  It is extremely irritating to see you advertize the RtR League !
Most fun I ever had was from playing league online, and for some reason that got cancelled.  Now you have all those people working on the new version and none of them makes time to implement leagues ?
I'm really disappointed in wizards...
I just want to say that having a 5/6 that let me tap down to 5 life would have made playing Fateful Hour much easier. :D
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So why don't we get surveys (aka polls) on the DailyMTG articles any more? Smile

(As something of a "Johnny", it's a bit depressing to read that it is mythics that are mostly tuned for that; I realise that the NWO means that silly stuff can't easily happen at common any more, but for some of us, commons are all we really have!)


I'm very much enjoying the "experience design" parts of the prereleases (the Helvault débacle aside). I was the first vampire sired by our vampire mistress at Dark Ascension and she went on to lead the largest monster family and won an FTV: Legends for her trouble. And the guild packs are a spectacular, awesome part of RTR. I'm not sure whether getting to play with the prerelease card is a good plan or not: there were an *awful* lot of 8/8 elementals floating around two weekends ago.

But nonetheless, the experience factor is going a long way towards making up for the incredibly annoying axing of the large London prereleases which were a far cooler experience. I still don't get to see my brother for Magic any more the way we used to at the London prerelease, and I still have *no* idea why WotC don't allow side-event drafts at prereleases - especially since the stated reason is "to build excitement for Grand Prix" which come to the UK maybe every couple of years?? - but... eh, I started off this post positive, so I guess I should try to end on a high note. So yeah, guild packs are good, keep it up.

...If you really wanted to make prereleases a good experience, though, you could consider letting large prereleases happen again.  
Huh, so that's what Volatile Rig was gonna be before it got changed ... Oh well I love how the Rig turned out, so I'm not all that curious about Haunted Armor ... Especially since we just left the "horror trope" block

And that's the first time I noticed that deadbridge goliath looks an awful lot like a roach from SC2 hehe. FOR THE SWARM! Err both swarms I guess ... :P

Oh and prerelease guild packs were awesome, but I agree that there were too many 8/8 elementals getting out of hand with populate ... Smart Selesnya players were impossible to beat. Maybe be a bit more careful with the promos for Gatecrash?
What is the "forbidden mechanic"?



Click on the link and it brings you to the article.  Halfway down the article is a picture of the Helvault.  The paragraph talking about the "forbidden mechanic" is in between the two lines containing the Helvault picture.
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(As something of a "Johnny", it's a bit depressing to read that it is mythics that are mostly tuned for that; I realise that the NWO means that silly stuff can't easily happen at common any more, but for some of us, commons are all we really have!)





A cow is an animal, an animal isn't a cow. You've read that part about mythics & johnny wrong, although you are correct about commons...
Once again, I'm depressingly reminded of the difference between me and (apparently) other people. That 5/6 is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more appealing than that 5/5, although it has little to do with the point of toughness (admittedly I find 5/6 to be slightly more aesthetically compelling than 5/5 for whatever reason. even better would be 3/6). 
I hate SVortex in multiplayer... politically, the worst thing you can do is piss all your enemies off-- give them all a reason to gang up on you. I see it used in Legacy, though.
I hate SVortex in multiplayer... politically, the worst thing you can do is piss all your enemies off-- give them all a reason to gang up on you. I see it used in Legacy, though.


You just need to give them proper incentive to look elsewhere too.

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

On the one hand:

One of the most insidious traps a game designer can fall into is setting up incentives such that players will do something but hate themselves for doing it. Massively multiplayer games that make you "grind" for quests, experience, and loot fall into this camp—players do not enjoy feeling forced into the situation the game has constructed for them.

But on the other hand, >90% of the cards you open will only ever be useful in Limited. So play Limited even if you hate it, guys. I mean, what else are you going to do with Craw Wurm variant #731?

Also, our market research says it's for your own good. So chow down.
Loved the article & the data it provided.

Interesting to see the 'PIT' style players seem to dictate the online prices of the cards more than the casual - and that neither PW was in the list (not in the set at that point, or just not rated highly by casual players?) Not sure when Haunted Armor can show up - it must by Mythic or the top rated rare by casuals (excl. shocks) and I suspect heavily that the Mythic Artefact slot in the next set is "Ravnica Visitor", and the 5 mono, 5 leaders, 5 guild spells pattern will repeat.

Pack Rat then Precinct Captain as the top casual Rares (excl. shocks) as it stands is pretty interesting - it suggests that these fit into existing casual archetypes and should be great for FNM trades. - even though they are both sub £2 on most sites (and not on max stock levels...).

Dear Dave Guskin,
Regarding your article "Survey Says":


how do cards like "Azor's Elocutors", "Door to Nothingness", etc make it into sets? I got two elocutors, and feel incredibly jipped out of two rares in my box. At least with Vraska's "auto-win assassins" you have to do multiple things that all feel like mini goals, where the azors, helix pinnacle, door to nothingness, battle of wits,epic struggle, felidar sovereign, darksteel reactor, mortal combat, etc, all feel like you hit the win and it's incredibly unsatisfying because you've committed to playing the game by yourself instead of with another player. your rare polls have to have come back crappy on those cards. I'm obviously wrong since they've made it in the sets, but why waste peoples money are cards that will RARELY be used. the whole idea of a rare is a card that comes up occasionally, has a giant impact on the game and makes it feel like you've outwitted your opponent, not something that enters the battlefield and causes the other player to say, "i thought you were my opponent, now i realize your own deck is your opponent".

just strikes me as odd that these cards even have a place in a game based on Duels. They turn them into solitaire with a minor annoyance of someone throwing waterballoons at you at the same time. 


Dear Dave Guskin,
Regarding your article "Survey Says":


how do cards like "Azor's Elocutors", "Door to Nothingness", etc make it into sets? ... snip ... not something that enters the battlefield and causes the other player to say, "i thought you were my opponent, now i realize your own deck is your opponent".

just strikes me as odd that these cards even have a place in a game based on Duels. They turn them into solitaire with a minor annoyance of someone throwing waterballoons at you at the same time. 




I'd rate both of those cards as 8+ in a heartbeat.  

Hitting the win is a piece of cake with those cards, doing it before your opponents deck kills you is the challenge.  Having won a game with filibusters Y'day (drafted white blue) it was good fun.  She had creatures (golgari) , but I had more answers and instead of slow grinding her out with flyers the stalled board gave me the win (even though the guild leader was flying in for 4 & two detains each turn so I'd have won 3 later anyway).

In my final week of M13 league I changed my whole deck to play 40 card Door To Nothingness as I had a foil from week 1. I won games, but never with the door (either perfect mana & no card or vice-versa).

You should be able to find someone like me to trade the challenge rares for things that we never play from our boxes. 
That was a pretty interesting article with some neat insights into how cards are evaluated. Thanks!
...If you really wanted to make prereleases a good experience, though, you could consider letting large prereleases happen again.  

Yes, please.  I miss the regional prereleases where I reconnect with people I met at earlier prereleases and get my cards signed by artists.
What is the "forbidden mechanic"?


I am also dying to know what it is. By the way Rosewater talks about it and since Garfield himself came up with it, I feel it's something I'd really like. All this teasing is only making me want to know more.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rosewater once say that Archangel's Light was a card with that mechanic but got axed and they kept the art and remade the card?

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I'm late to this, but I wanted to say that I thought it was a really good article.  Real data, arranged and presented to convey good development theory.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

The article does make me wonder more about how Tibalt made it thru playtest. His +1 ability must have generated several "stink face" reactions right? How could he have polled so well if they check that stuff and end up a 75 cent mythic?
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