Community Cup 2012 Deckbuilding Thread

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
The constructed portion of this year's Community Cup will be Ravnica Block + Return to Ravnica Unified Constructed. (For those unfamiliar with unified constructed, the entire team's decks must be legal if combined, so no more than four of a card across all eight decks.) This thread is for the community to assist the community team in building and testing the eight decks necessary.

With eight decks needed across only four sets, this might be the most difficult deck-building challenge in the Community Cup yet. Help out below.

If you're going to post decklists, please use [deck][/deck] tags.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
The constructed portion of this year's Community Cup will be Ravnica Block + Return to Ravnica Unified Constructed. (For those unfamiliar with unified constructed, the entire team's decks must be legal if combined, so no more than four of a card across all eight decks.) This thread is for the community to assist the community team in building and testing the eight decks necessary.

With eight decks needed across only four sets, this might be the most difficult deck-building challenge in the Community Cup yet. Help out below.

There's a google.doc here: 

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjZ...

for anyone who wants to see what cards/deck ideas we are kicking around at the moment. These are FAR from final.
Is there a gentlemens agreement for WotC not to scout out the community team's plan and decklists here?

Other than that, you should start with the decklists of PT Charleston. 3-Person Unified Team Constructed with the full Ravnica block. Rakdos, GWB, UWR control were some of the best decks of the format. Non-Rakdos Games went rather long and involved lots of Bouncelands, Signets and expensive cards.

The deckbuilding process was heavily influenced by the untargetability of cards like Giant Solifuge and Simic Sky Swallower. Creatures have become much more powerful since then, but it might be worth to keep in mind. Interacting with bouncelands was also key, as landdestruction was quite potent.

Incidentally, I played one of the most unfair constructed decks I've ever played at a Pro Tour. It is based on abusing Copy Enchantment and can be found in the coverage decklists. This deck might be particularly interesting because it is great for the unified deck construction format as it doesn't take away a lot of key cards from other decks.

In general, you want to answer not only how to divide colors, guilds, and fixing, but also how the overall speed and powerlevel could look like. Dividing everything between 8 players probably means that the powerlevel goes down a bit, but I expect this format to be faster overall than that of PT Charleston.

Good luck!
Is there a gentlemens agreement for WotC not to scout out the community team's plan and decklists here?


Yes.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert

Here's a rough sketch of a Mono-black deck. Overlaps a bit with the Jund deck you have, but I think it's probably pretty solid even if you split some of the desirable cards (aka Bob, Avatar, etc.). Maybe cut to 22 lands? Obviously haven't tested this, but it feels powerful. Might be where you want to be in this format. I can't see not playing some of these undercosted (at least in terms of mana!) black creatures in this format.

-Ryan Bogner


4 Dark Confidant (1B)


4 Drekavac (1B)


4 Hunted Horror (BB)


4 Dred Reveler (2B)


4 Avatar of Discord (BBB)


4 Desecration Demon (BB2)


 


 


4 Disembowel (BX)


2 Ultimate Price (1B)


2 Last Gasp (1B)


3 Seal of Doom (2B)


 


23 Swamp

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the restriction imposed by the unified deck construction rules yet at this stage of the deckbuilding process. Trying to build 8 unified decks for an unknown format at once is putting to much emphasis on the restriction rather than what you want your result to be. You run into the danger of everything working out (4 of each card over all decks), but ending up with subpar decks. It's not only easier but also more effective to start off with awesome decks and deal with the constraints later.

Step 1: Make good RAV-GPT-DIS-RTR decklists (power and consistency) with a clear plan and defined strategic positioning. If all of them play Doubling Season (I hope not), so be it.
Step 2: Cross-reference the best decks and make a list of high-priority cards. Those are the ones that put the greatest strain on your deckbuilding. I assume that Shocklands are going to be on the top of the list. However, Breeding Pool (for example) might only appear in one particular Graftdeck, so it is good to base this on actual lists rather than gut feeling.
Step 3: Get a good idea of how colorful your decks want to be compared to the available manafixing. Some amount of theorycrafting based on the fact that Ravnica block has all guilds (Shocks, Bouncelands, Signets) while RTR has only five (Gates, maybe Keyrunes) is probably in order.
Step 4: Find 8 lists with the right amount of powerlevel and a solvable amount of overlap between cards. Distribute cards (2:2 or 3:1, maybe even 2:1:1 is not only very possible, but probably unavoidable).
Step 5: Think about the metagame and how specialized you want your sideboards to be. Keep in mind that unified deck construction forces you to be rather generic in your average sideboards compared to regular constructed formats.
Step 6 (obviously): Profit.
It's not only easier but also more effective to start off with awesome decks and deal with the constraints later.



Yeah what he said.  Build the few best then piecemeal the rest around the niche lefthooks from the scrap pile.
"They were civilized they even drank their blood from a cup"→James Silke/Frank Frazzeta "When the Cryptkeeper sticks 'em they tend to stay stuck"→Cryptkeeper "Do not blame the current developers if there is something you don't like about Magic Online. Chances are no one asked the developers for their opinion."→elf "They just look at me like I'm stupid and then I just say something like well you know WOTC does some dumb things sometimes."→wilmheath "Like just about everything I've experienced with MTGO and the Magic WotC website, I'm finding it difficult to..."→0rbit "the more general question is: at what point does an easily fixable interface issue become a defect?"→silentbobus "Imagine, only four years later and I almost have as much functionality as I used to."→Algona "WotC, you make an awesome game, why do you have to suck so bad at letting people have a fun time?"→MTGKaioshin "If you are all about playing as many games as possible as fast as possible and you KNOW you have me beat, then concede and move on"→Johnh2005 "Wow. You're a real pleasure to help. Good luck figuring it out by yourself."→tempesteye "2hg brokest of the broke"→Me, Myself & I "It's you against the shuffler."→jwark "this look like freeware that some kid down the street crafted up"→ProtossX "ask them if the world came to an economic end tomorrow, whether they think little printed pieces of paper could be traded for actual goods or services"→dangerlinto "You still have time before the buggy, non user friendly beta is shoved down your throat"→theminer575 Server status→ http://www.wizards.com/magic/magiconlineserverstatus.asp Love or hate me I was brought to you courtesy of V3!
I thought about the problem some more and realized that while RGD had some truly powerful cards, the creature quality is just not on par with what we have today. While Burning-Tree Shaman and Rumbling Slum were pushing it in 2006, they are easily outclassed by today's creatures.

Based on the fact that the non-RTR guilds (aka GTC guilds) have less manafixing and worse creatures, I would want to base at least five of the eight decks on a RTR guild. That leaves three decks to build with non-RTR guilds, two of them can be three-colored with up to 8 Shock Duals, while one would have to stand on its own.

The big question is which of the non-RTR guilds can stand on its own in today's world. The creature quality of Boros is laughable, while Dimir doesn't have any good gold cards at all. While Orzhov and Simic certainly have great cards, I just couldn't see a coherent BW or UG creature deck forming. That leaves Gruul, which I started with. However, I ran into the aforementioned problem that the cheap creatures of 2006 are just too weak to put up a fight in 2012. The lack of good 1- and 2-drops in particular makes it difficult to build a Gruul deck without weakening the Rakdos deck too much.

However, there is hope. The approach I suggest consists of building a viable Simic deck. Then, the remaining duals allow for an RGW Naya aggro and an UBW Esper control deck to exist with relatively good mana and strategic direction. But all of this relies on UG working out, which might just be possible thanks to the interaction of Doubling Season and Jace, Architect of Thought. How do up to four free spells from your opponents deck as well as one of your own sound? How about getting a Vraska and six lethal assassins out of that last spell?



To be honest, I have no idea if this could work. The list is also as unpolished as it could get. However, it might just be one of the ways to solve this 8-person 4-set unified deckbuilding challenge. Some ideas for the remaining decks (the "4x" is just for formatting):

RGW - Cloak Naya
[deck]
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Fencing Ace
4 Boros Swiftblade
4 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Lightning Helix
4 Moldervine Cloak
[/deck]

UBW - Esper Control
[deck]
4 Watery Grave
4 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Signet
4 Azorius Signet
4 Angel of Despair
4 Angel of Serenity
4 Compulsive Research
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Vigor Mortis
4 Ribbons of Night
[/deck]

UW - Copy Enchantment Tapout Control
[deck]
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Signet
4 Court Hussar
4 Detention Sphere
4 Copy Enchantment
4 Faith's Fetters
4 Dream Leash
[/deck]

UR - Izzet control (I doubt that Guttersnipe and Wee Dragonauts will work)
[deck]
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Charm
4 Syncopate
4 Electrolyze
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Demonfire
4 Thoughtflare
4 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
[/deck]
(maybe some creatures like Frostburn Weird or Goblin Electromancer.)

GW - Selesnya: more than enough cards to chose from, aggro, anti-aggro, populate, Glare of Subdual,...

GB - Golgari: all around incredible card quality

RB - Rakdos: straightforward Confidant-fueled low curve aggro
Anyone who can help out with testing these the next two nights, join the CommunityCup chat room in the client.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
Sign In to post comments