Opinions of the Monk and Psion classes?

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Hi everyone,

My first character died last night (stupid black dragon) and I am torn between a Monk and a Psion, specifically a telepathic based one, for my next roll.

I am rather unfamiler with the game and have no idea what the 'tier list' is so to speak. To be honest I am more concerned with the RP aspects of the classes but I am curious as to how they stack up later in the game.

Any thoughts or advice would be welcome.

Thanks for your time

Fort a telepathy flavour, the Psion is what you want.  The MOnk is much more flavoured toward the ki-based martial-artist.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Oh I know the flavors, what I am curious about is just how good the classes stack up against the other.
They have completely different roles.  They're both effective at what they do, but what they do is different.  One is a multitarget melee striker, the other is a ranged controller.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
perfect, so long as they are not totally gimped lol. Thanks for the info.
i love both of these classes. flip a coin.
Telepath's are kinda easy to build, so that much is boring, but they're full of flavor and effective. Monks have more options, so depending on what you choose it can be underwhelming, but built right they're just as effective as other classes, and plenty flavorful to boot.

Can't go wrong with either. Just pick based on the range you want to be from your enemies and run with it.
Monks are more fun in my experience, probably more fun than any other striker.  But they tend to be one of the most complex classes in 4e to actually play, especially for a striker and they get noticably more complex at higher levels.  I played a low paragon desert wind monk and it seemed like a whole lot more stuff to keep track of than the other paragon tier characters I have played, which includes warlords, shamans, clerics, and wizards.  It had a ton of shifting and conditional damage modifiers and things like that.  Compared to the barbarians, warlock, and avenger I have played the 2 monks I have played were both more complicated.

Psions can get very repetetive.  They are one of the simplest controllers and I have only played one once when the person who had that PC missed a session.  I got bored with it, but it worked well.
Monks have incredible variety and do a wide number of things.  They have a broad range of options, and can basically do anything and end up anywhere in combat.

Psions have one of the most narrow option fields of any class in D&D, but ridiculous power contained in those limited options.  They're literally so limited though that you can run into problems (some of your best spells are bursts, and you really don't have encounter powers to fill in slightly odd niches, you just have to do what you do but BETTER). 
i must admit I am really tempted by the monk. Just taking a look at the powers and movements included in the books look awsume beynd belief.
I tried the battlemind and hated it.
The Augment system was far more trouble than fun.
To me, the Monk should have been a wis-based divine melee character.
Hey Twalford,


I just started playing a monk in another system and I'm pretty hooked. Part of the reason is because I played a druid in 4e and then one in Warhammer to get a better feel. So monk still can have the neutral alignment without being tempted to go to extremes. But the awesome attacks and RPG aspects are so rich in content.
    
Perhaps you can pick one then kill 'em off if it doesn't pan out and go for the other. Let me know if you choose monk. I'd love to see what your character turns out to be.


- Mamatron  
There's a general opinion that the power-point classes in 4E suffer from higher-level augmented powers being either too weak, or too expensive, or both, compared to lower-level augmented powers. That, with rare exceptions, you're better off spending 4 points to augment a lower-level power 4 times than you would be by spending the same 4 points to augment a higher-level power once and then use unaugmented powers 3 times.

With the result that the most effective characters in these classes mostly spam their level-1 powers. 
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose

To me, the Monk should have been a wis-based divine melee character.



Pssst! What you want exists and is called the Avenger. Most of my Avengers come from a monastic upbringing (the isolationist nature of monastaries being conducive to both fundamentalism and unorthodox extremism). As far as they are concerned, they are Monks, not Avengers.

Between those two I would definately go for the monk. I've seen it in action and it's sweet while the psion might not be bad, but I've never had a feeling it would be interesting building and playing one. Thri-kreen monk FTW xD
Monk is one of my favorite classes ever. It's so darned versatile, both in terms of hybriding/MCing into other classes and having so many options on the battlefield. The ki focus feature is the icing on the cake.

Psions are just kind of boring compared to monks IMHO.

Your friendly neighborhood Revenant Minotaur Half-Blooded Dragonborn Fighter Hybrid Barbarian Multiclassing into Warlord

IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1223957875/Scorecards/Landscape.png)

I've always loved monks and honestly, if you take the time to really build it and really consider what your doing.. you become a god in very short order. High defenses, massives aoe's, or very very hard hitting. Basically you take your pick. I'll copy mine down (keep in mind I'm running in an epic campaign right now) but it'll give you an idea of what the monk is capable of. I also have a psion as a secondary character.. he's more of a funny type of character.. I call him a Jedi Robo.. (Psion Warforged). He has a tendency to pick people up with his mind and throw them against the wall. 



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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Sparrow, level 21
Human, Monk, Adroit Explorer, Diamond Soul
Build: Centered Breath Monk
Monastic Tradition Option: Centered Breath
Ambitious Effort Option: Ambitious Effort New Power
Human Power Selection Option: Bonus At-Will Power
Background Benefit: Among Another Race (Razorclaw Shifter)
Birth - Among Another Race (Among Another Race (Razorclaw Shifter))
Theme: Treasure Hunter

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 26, INT 13, WIS 21, CHA 12

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 15, CHA 10


AC: 37 Fort: 36 Ref: 38 Will: 36
HP: 128 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 32

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +28, Athletics +15, Insight +20, Perception +20, Thievery +23

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +11, Dungeoneering +15, Endurance +13, Heal +15, History +11, Intimidate +11, Nature +15, Religion +11, Stealth +18, Streetwise +11

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Treasure Hunter Utility: Treasure Sense
Monk Feature: Centered Flurry of Blows
Monk Attack 1: Fallen Needle
Monk Attack 1: Five Storms
Monk Attack 1: Crane's Wings
Monk Attack 1: Masterful Spiral
Acrobatics Utility 2: Agile Recovery
Monk Attack 3: Wind Through the Willows
Monk Utility 6: Centered Defense
Monk Attack 7: Strike the Avalanche
Monk Utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense
Adroit Explorer Utility 12: Destined for Greatness
Monk Attack 13: Furious Bull
Monk Attack 13: Step Between the Worlds
Monk Attack 15: Mithral Tornado
Acrobatics Utility 16: Reflexive Dodge
Monk Attack 17: Steps of Grasping Fire
Monk Attack 17: Three Winds Kick
Monk Attack 17: Fall of the Anvil's Master
Monk Attack 19: Loud Fist Strike
Adroit Explorer Attack 20: Bloodied Greatness

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility
Level 1: Superior Reflexes
Level 2: Fluid Motion
Level 4: Deadly Draw
Level 5: Skill Focus (Acrobatics)
Level 6: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Iron ki focus)
Level 10: Improved Initiative
Level 11: Defensive Advantage
Level 12: Uncanny Dodge
Level 14: Courageous Mind
Level 16: Internalize the Basic Kata
Level 18: Superior Will
Level 20: Superior Fortitude
Level 21: Centered Master

ITEMS
Monk unarmed strike x1
Adventurer's Kit
Devastating Iron ki focus +4 x1
Mantle of the Seventh Wind Kestrekel Feather Armor +5 x1
Rushing Cleats x1
Ring of Feather Fall x1
Ring of Aquatic Ability x1
Amulet of Life Protection +4 x1
Trollhide Bracers (paragon tier) x1
Gauntlets of Destruction x1
Map of Unseen Lands
Everlasting Provisions
Reinforcing Belt x1
====== End ======




Note: I'm not actually sure if Forceful weapons (My ki feature) and the rushing cleats stack. If they do on most of my forced movement attacks I gain an extra two places. So I'm moving enemies all over the field. If anyone knows the let me know. Its not labeled as a "feat/item/communist/easter bunny/walmart slash and save/ hot vanilla chai tea latte (god that sounds good right now) bonuses so I think by default they stack. Also given the items I'm wearing I minimum do 3 damage per dice. 

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If correct my most dramatic ability is loud fist strike

Primary target takes 3d10+15 (min/max dmg -> 24/45) then push the target a total of 7 squares and knock him prone. 
Area Burst 2 (hitting all enemies cept original target) centered on primary target.
       2d10+15 (min/max damage -> 21/35) and all targets are pushed 5 squares from the guy on his butt

I know I'm talking a lot but monks are great fun if you just like going "BOOSH! How ya like THAT?!" and the martial arts flavor makes it easy to do all sorts of fun stuff 



Sparrow is a Cheerful treasure hunter who was adopted by her Razorclaw Father (he's another character of mine) but unlike him she's very outgoing and far from reserved. She loves the thrill of combat and the excitment of adventure verses the wonder of ancient history. Just so much fun to play 
 

To me, the Monk should have been a wis-based divine melee character.



Pssst! What you want exists and is called the Avenger. Most of my Avengers come from a monastic upbringing (the isolationist nature of monastaries being conducive to both fundamentalism and unorthodox extremism). As far as they are concerned, they are Monks, not Avengers.




Except the description text of the Avenger is what I consider a Paladin to be. And the Avenger mechanics are just broken compared to other classes. Yes, Broken.


To me, the Monk should have been a wis-based divine melee character.



Pssst! What you want exists and is called the Avenger. Most of my Avengers come from a monastic upbringing (the isolationist nature of monastaries being conducive to both fundamentalism and unorthodox extremism). As far as they are concerned, they are Monks, not Avengers.




Except the description text of the Avenger is what I consider a Paladin to be. And the Avenger mechanics are just broken compared to other classes. Yes, Broken.



So . . .

Avenger = not not broken, I.E  negative not broken
Monk = not not broken, I.E negative not broken

Ergo:

(-not broken)(-not broken) = (not broken)^2

An Avenger Monk is doubly not broken!

Your friendly neighborhood Revenant Minotaur Half-Blooded Dragonborn Fighter Hybrid Barbarian Multiclassing into Warlord

IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1223957875/Scorecards/Landscape.png)

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