I do not know what to use, B/G Zombie or B/R Zombies, help!

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I do not know which to use, BG has the Lotleth Troll and discard Gravecrawler while the BR has the <a href="http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?CardName=Falkenrath%20Aristocrat" rel="nofollow">Falkenrath Aristocrat</a> which one do you think will be best in the standards?
Jund, obvs.
Jund zombies 4 sure. Check out da threadz

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BR and Jund (Basically BR plus Lotleth Troll and Dreg Manager) performed better than Golgari did overall at the first large Standard tournament post rotation.

BR is miles better than BG. Th difference between BR and Jund is only marginal and it depends on your match ups, but a crap load of two power guys for 1, followed by burn spells seems like a legitimate way to win the way. I was genuinely surprised at how effective the BR list from SCG is when I started testing it.
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Black/Red is a lot faster, Black/Green has dudes that are harder to kill.
Being hard to kill isn't a huge deal. 

(at)MrEnglish22

I'm going to ask a real noob question but what does Jund mean?
I'm going to ask a real noob question but what does Jund mean?


Jund is RGB, named after the "shard" from Shards of Alara.

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Jund refers to the three colours centred around red, from Alara block; black, red and green. 'Jund,' if you can afford the mana-base for it, offers the best of both black-red and black-green Zombie lists. If you must truly choose one or the other, my vote goes to black-red, because Falkenrath Aristocrat is amazing and I love it. <3

Edit: Gravecrawler makes it amazing because you can usually return Gravecrawler to play via other zombies, making Falkenrath Aristocrat indefinitely indestructible, more or less.
Edit2: Also, it's a sac outlet, making Blood Artist bonkers, frequently.
I'm going to ask a real noob question but what does Jund mean?


Jund is RGB, named after the "shard" from Shards of Alara.

Thanks, I see jund decks all over the place but never understood the name.
I'm going to ask a real noob question but what does Jund mean?


Jund is RGB, named after the "shard" from Shards of Alara.

Thanks, I see jund decks all over the place but never understood the name.



For future reference:
Grixis: Red, Black, Blue
Esper: White, Blue, Black
Naya: Red, Green, White
Bant: Green, White, Blue 
Resident Piggles Zombie piggy is eatin' your sigs om nom nom (>*o*)>
MTG Card
Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

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I still like both.
Lotleth troll
Falkenrath aristocrat

Yeah, if you can't decide this, you DO need help. 


ily
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
I personally think:

Golgari: Fun to play (good for FNM)

Jund: Less consistent

Rakdos: Best of the three

So, depends on your agenda. If you want the most competitive chose RB, just look at the recent tournament rankings and you'll understand that.

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g/b is more flexible of a deck than r/b, but r/b is generally more solid and puts up better wins.

Jund is an awkward deck with a bad mana base. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Your metagame determines which is best.  If there are a ton of Thragtusks running rampant where you're playing, B/G (with Crippling Blights) is best.  If there are a lot of Zombies and other hyper aggressive decks in your area, B/R is best for the reach.

I think going into an unknown metagame, B/G is superior.  B/R is certainly quicker and more aggressive, but it's also a lot more prone to bad draws.  Sometimes you draw all your burn and no creatures to get damage through consistently.  Sometimes you draw all your creatures, but no way to finish the game.  B/G never really has that problem.

I tried Jund, and I think it's straight up inferior to both B/R and B/G.  The mana was really, really bad for spells.  You basically can't play more than 4 non-black spells, so you have to pick between Rancor or burn.  You also end up trying to do way too much.  There's just not enough space in the deck for LolTrolls, Dreg Manglers, Blood Artists and Falkenrath Aristocrats.  Something gets left out, and it makes this version worse than either of the two color versions.  I would never recommend playing Jund.

Bg isn't as good, based on the results.

burn is much more powerful than Rancor, esp. given the small creatures.
Cavern of Souls doesn't care what color. IMO, burn is better for removal than say Prey Upon.
Bg isn't as good, based on the results. burn is much more powerful than Rancor, esp. given the small creatures.



Thank god we all know how results oriented isn't generally a good way to be.

(at)MrEnglish22

Bg isn't as good, based on the results. burn is much more powerful than Rancor, esp. given the small creatures.



Thank god we all know how results oriented isn't generally a good way to be.


The "bad" results oriented thinking is when you base your judgments on the results of one case.  It's basically insufficient sample size.  If you've done enough tests that you can make variance negligible, it's OK to use those results as justification.

But I probably shouldn't try to explain this to someone whose profession is largely based on case studies. 



It was mostly just me wanting to post something, but not having anything relevant to say.

As for my profession, I've been sidetracked on the Psych stuff - got my Bachelor's but haven't gone to grad school yet. So currently unemployed/binder grinding/buying stuff at Goodwill and reselling it. Wishing I'd just gone straight to Grad school. 

On a completely unrelated, unrelevant note: I'm surprised there haven't been people posting in the standard forums trying to build decks from the PT. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Yeah, here's what you do with a psych degree: go back to school. Or work in fast food.

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Yeah, here's what you do with a psych degree: go back to school. Or work in fast food.


Fixed that for ya, mate.
Yeah, here's what you do with a psych degree: go back to school. Or work in fast food.


Fixed that for ya, mate.


Engineering (that's not environmental) disagrees with you =P.

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And the American world economy disagrees with you! :D (unless you've already got the connections required to get a job)
Bg isn't as good, based on the results. burn is much more powerful than Rancor, esp. given the small creatures.



Thank god we all know how results oriented isn't generally a good way to be.


The "bad" results oriented thinking is when you base your judgments on the results of one case.  It's basically insufficient sample size.  If you've done enough tests that you can make variance negligible, it's OK to use those results as justification.

But I probably shouldn't try to explain this to someone whose profession is largely based on case studies. 



It was mostly just me wanting to post something, but not having anything relevant to say.

As for my profession, I've been sidetracked on the Psych stuff - got my Bachelor's but haven't gone to grad school yet. So currently unemployed/binder grinding/buying stuff at Goodwill and reselling it. Wishing I'd just gone straight to Grad school. 

On a completely unrelated, unrelevant note: I'm surprised there haven't been people posting in the standard forums trying to build decks from the PT. 




Ironically, after doing a degree in Quantum Physics (where everything is based on huge numbers of numerical samples), my career is in a field where everything is extraordinarily single-case-focused.

But yeah, results-oriented thinking is only a problem when you're not aware of/accounting for noise, and picking out peaks instead of trends.
Crazy, my degree got me a job too. This economy is so unpredictable! One thing being reported and then all of us getting jobs with our degrees. Lunacy!

Back to cards, drawing conclusions from samples is great.. if you've got a statistically relevant sample size.

We almost have one for standard. 

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The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
I make my living on MTGO, you ****ing nerds. 


Yes, we know.

Anyways, to round out the degrees discussion: useful ones from the right places get you jobs (connections advised but not required). The end.

As for MtG, the only problem with Thragtusk is that they decided to get around exiling and didn't bother with the fact that exiling is SUPPOSED to handle "dies" effects. Actually, that's not even accurate. The real problem with Thrag is the numbers. It's just too much for 5 mana in a format without Titans and Praetors. It's getting to the point that my control deck may need to go 5CC because it's the only real answer to other Thrags (and GST) I'm willing to play (besides the ever-janky Evil Twin).

You just can't get anything better for 5 mana. Heck, you have trouble getting anything better for 6 mana right now, and even Niv doesn't survive the encounter (which is terrible). Armada Wurm is the only 6-drop that actually excites me, and it's still worse against Terminus.

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Is it bad I want to play BUG because you get Thragtusk, Clone effects, and removal?

You just kill all their stuff, stick a thrag, then clone it 3 times. GG. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Basically why my friend likes those colours in legacy.
Basically why my friend likes those colours in legacy.



I like those three colours in legacy because it gives you Bob, FoW and Sylvan Library.

ALL OF THE CARD ADVANTAGE!!!!! 

(at)MrEnglish22

I've played all three quite a bit. Mostly Jund, which got me 5th at CA States. I ran hot and went undefeated in Swiss, which was awesome. Only thing is you are bound to eventually get those awkward hands of cavern, swamp, swamp on turn 3 with a Messenger and Aristocrat in hand and you have to apply pressure ASAP. You pick zombie and never draw a red land for the Aristocrat. You pick Vampire and and never get to play a three drop. Then add in Mangler and Lotleth, it gets awkward quick. RB is probably the easiest to pilot and most explosive, but the easiest to disrupt. Right now I'm planning on taking BG (Gerry T's list) to FNM and Gameday to try and get some prize support. Overall

Br = Explosive/Reliable but not Resilient
Bg = Aggressive/Resilient but not as explosive
Jund = OMGzorz Amazing (If mana cooperates)
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Pretty sure you want to play BR or Jund. BR is more reliable as you don't play 3 colors, but Jund has more power.

(at)MrEnglish22

B/R. And this is coming from someone who plays B/G. Having reach is so important. B/G can get off to a faster start, but topdecking Geralf's Messengers is the only reach the deck has. I'm thinking of testing Bump in the Night in B/G for that reason.
Play black blue zombies w/rooftop storm
And drogskol capitain
Necro for sarcastic post/outright bad info. Classy.

Tried B/r last FNM, was pleased. Want to try expanding back into Jund because I'm a greedy ****er, but I also really like playing 12 burn spells, so I just don't know.
Brimstone Volley is most pleasing when played as Searing Spear 5-8, because 3 damage instant is necessary with Vampire Nighthawk et al running around. The fact it's sometimes accidentally Lava Axe is goddamn gravy. Delicious, face-burning gravy.

Thragtusk is giving me fits, I think Slaughter Games out the side is a sad necessity. Rites in general is nigh-unwinnable without a blazing fast start and lots of burn to follow up.
I love playing the spirit captain in my zombie decks... it works wonders
Necro for sarcastic post/outright bad info. Classy.

Tried B/r last FNM, was pleased. Want to try expanding back into Jund because I'm a greedy ****er, but I also really like playing 12 burn spells, so I just don't know.
Brimstone Volley is most pleasing when played as Searing Spear 5-8, because 3 damage instant is necessary with Vampire Nighthawk et al running around. The fact it's sometimes accidentally Lava Axe is goddamn gravy. Delicious, face-burning gravy.

Thragtusk is giving me fits, I think Slaughter Games out the side is a sad necessity. Rites in general is nigh-unwinnable without a blazing fast start and lots of burn to follow up.


Appetite for Brains is way more efficient and versatile than Slaughter Games.
If you're already in red there's no reason not to have Slaughter Games in the board. Appetite doesn't prevent them from top-decking and playing the card you want gone. Also, I can think of a certain 3 drop that I would love to make sure never hits the field.
If you're already in red there's no reason not to have Slaughter Games in the board. Appetite doesn't prevent them from top-decking and playing the card you want gone. Also, I can think of a certain 3 drop that I would love to make sure never hits the field.


In Zombies? You aren't even a safe bet to hit 4 mana before they cast Thragtusk. And Appetite will hit a card in decks you are bringing it in against. SG doesn't even do that reliably. An aggro deck spending 4 mana to not impact the board at all is pretty bad.
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