Rakdos // Selesnya efficiency threshold (collaborative)

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Following an earlier post, I would like to keep track of our draft experiences with Rakdos and Selesnya.

I suspect that:
-a Rakdos deck with a low (to medium) number of Unleash creatures will have a hard time to be really efficient.
-a Selesnya deck with a low number of Token maker and Populate cards will also face some problems in a draft situation.

What I suggest is that everytime you get a chance to play a (mainly) Rakdos or Selesnya deck, you post here:
- The number of creatures with unleash/total number of creatures/number of removals for Rakdos.
- The number of Token maker/Populate card for Selesnya.
- your result in the given draft.

It would be interesting to see if we can come up with a trend for these 2 guilds decks, or not...
         

    

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I only count 5 Token-producers in that deck. And 3 Populate effects (though one of them is repeatable).

My Rakdos deck I referred to in the other post:

Creatures (14, 9 Unleash):
Grim Rustabout x 2 (Unleash)
Gore-House Chainwalker x 2 (Unleash)
Rix Maadi Guildmage
Dead Reveler (Unleash)
Sewer Shambler x 2
Splatter Thug x 2 (Unleash)
Hellhole Flailer (Unleash)
Cobblebrute
Rakdos Ragemutt
Spawn of Rix Maadi (Unleash)

Other Spells (9, 5 removal):
Civic Saber
Ultimate Price x 2 (Removal)
Rakdos Keyrune
Stab Wound (Removal)
Auger Spree (Removal)
Traitorous Instinct
Explosive Impact (Removal)
Rakdos' Return

Lands (17):
Mountain x 8
Rakdos Guildgate
Swamp x 8

And I also lied about the deck's record; I did lose a game. I went 2-0, 2-0, 2-1 for a record of 3-0 in matches, 6-1 in games, and took first in the draft
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
I only count 5 Token-producers in that deck. And 3 Populate effects (though one of them is repeatable).

My Rakdos deck I referred to in the other post:

Creatures (14, 9 Unleash):
Grim Rustabout x 2 (Unleash)
Gore-House Chainwalker x 2 (Unleash)
Rix Maadi Guildmage
Dead Reveler (Unleash)
Sewer Shambler x 2
Splatter Thug x 2 (Unleash)
Hellhole Flailer (Unleash)
Cobblebrute
Rakdos Ragemutt
Spawn of Rix Maadi (Unleash)

Other Spells (9, 5 removal):
Civic Saber
Ultimate Price x 2 (Removal)
Rakdos Keyrune
Stab Wound (Removal)
Auger Spree (Removal)
Traitorous Instinct
Explosive Impact (Removal)
Rakdos' Return

Lands (17):
Mountain x 8
Rakdos Guildgate
Swamp x 8

And I also lied about the deck's record; I did lose a game. I went 2-0, 2-0, 2-1 for a record of 3-0 in matches, 6-1 in games, and took first in the draft



Rootborn Defenses
Coursers' Accord
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage
Seller of Songbirds
Centaur's Herald
Grove of the Guardian

Makes 6. The request was for creators/populate.

EDIT

An interesting thing to note about both decks: really heavy into 3cc creatures. I found I was always putting something down, and usually had mana leftover for combat tricks, or vice versa. Plus, the keyrunes are legit in limited.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

Rootborn Defenses
Coursers' Accord
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage
Seller of Songbirds
Centaur's Herald
Grove of the Guardian

Makes 6. The request was for creators/populate.

EDIT

An interesting thing to note about both decks: really heavy into 3cc creatures. I found I was always putting something down, and usually had mana leftover for combat tricks, or vice versa. Plus, the keyrunes are legit in limited.



Rootborn Defenses does not create a token by itself (it just populates).
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
Rootborn Defenses
Coursers' Accord
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage
Seller of Songbirds
Centaur's Herald
Grove of the Guardian

Makes 6. The request was for creators/populate.

EDIT

An interesting thing to note about both decks: really heavy into 3cc creatures. I found I was always putting something down, and usually had mana leftover for combat tricks, or vice versa. Plus, the keyrunes are legit in limited.



Rootborn Defenses does not create a token by itself (it just populates).



It creates a token when there are tokens. I'd call that a token card, since it has an interaction with tokens. Not including it in the list sacrifices the point of this thread for semantics :P

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

Rootborn Defenses
Coursers' Accord
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage
Seller of Songbirds
Centaur's Herald
Grove of the Guardian

Makes 6. The request was for creators/populate.

EDIT

An interesting thing to note about both decks: really heavy into 3cc creatures. I found I was always putting something down, and usually had mana leftover for combat tricks, or vice versa. Plus, the keyrunes are legit in limited.



Rootborn Defenses does not create a token by itself (it just populates).



It creates a token when there are tokens. I'd call that a token card, since it has an interaction with tokens. Not including it in the list sacrifices the point of this thread for semantics :P



The original poster specifically divided it into Token and Populate. I just went by that division.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
The original poster wanted to know the total number of token makers/populate cards, bc his theory is based on a low combined number of them. So I said 6. 

I only played Rootborn once in the entire tournament with no tokens on the field, and that was to protect my blockers so I could follow up with an alpha strike. Just because the card has numerous functionalities it doesn't cease to be a token-generating card. The card generates tokens. Sure, a condition has to be met, but we're talking about Selesnya. This is a ridiculous back-and-forth over one card.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I think it would be more useful to split the two types of cards to get a better idea of what works.  As an extreme example, a deck with 10 populate cards an no token makers needs to be differentiated from a deck with 5 of each, otherwise results are pretty meaningless.

Cheers
I think it would be more useful to split the two types of cards to get a better idea of what works.  As an extreme example, a deck with 10 populate cards an no token makers needs to be differentiated from a deck with 5 of each, otherwise results are pretty meaningless.

Cheers



So I had 5 token generators and 3 populate effects, one of which is repeatable, all in 6 cards. 

"What works" is a different discussion.

Centaur's Herald was a great combat trick, to block a heavy attacker and sac it for a Centaur.

Rootborn, as I mentioned, was a great combat trick and often left me with board advantage.

Seller of Songbirds mainly bought time, except when I needed more bird tokens and I had cards like Giant Growth in my hand. All about them combat tricks.

Grove of the Guardian was OK, though I found it costs you an attack round to crack, and then it's the first target for removal. I've played it both ways: a board threat so they keep mana in reserve and thus slows them down, or as a giant creature.

Guildmage was amazing, but died when I played her T2 more often than not. When she was out and populating, she was amazing. I only used her token-generation twice, both in stalled games. Still, she's a target for removal.

Coursers' Accord is a great 6-drop, especially with pumpables and shenanigans. I didn't play it that often because I only drew it twice.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I think it would be more useful to split the two types of cards to get a better idea of what works.  As an extreme example, a deck with 10 populate cards an no token makers needs to be differentiated from a deck with 5 of each, otherwise results are pretty meaningless.
Cheers


So I had 5 token generators and 3 populate effects, one of which is repeatable, all in 6 cards. 


That's what the original poster wanted, thank you. Wink

As Love Monkey mentioned, there is no point of having 10 populate cards without token makers. Also, I think it is nice to precise when the process is repeatable like with the Guildmage.
Thanks for the inputs so far. Smile