Why does Standard need Cavern of Souls?

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Cavern of Souls seems unnecessarily impactful to me. It pretty much shuts down all counterspells with the rotating-out of Mana Leak, which was reasonably costed and versatile enough to be played. But the current playable counterspells (Syncopate, Dissipate, Izzet Charm) can't be shoved in a U/X/X (Delver) deck to the extent that Mana Leak could; instead being more or less limited to UR decks if not unplayable.

And now there are 2-3 super-relevant spells that are uncounterable by definition.

So, to reiterate my query, why does Standard need the flavorless Cavern? It completely hoses at least one archetype (being draw-go, no comment on its current playability), and prevents counterspells from being played prolifically in any archetype in this creature-based format.

I believe, with the limited power of standard counterspells and in light of Return to Ravnica and the rest of the upcoming block, Cavern of Souls should be banned or restricted from Standard. I honestly don't see how another year of it will be conducive to a diverse standard format, as should be desired. But that is my opinion. I would like to hear other, more experienced ones (with or without subjectivity related to the party's investment in playset(s) of CoS).
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
CoS was, from the beggining, completely unnecessary. It was a mistake to have printed it, and I always said it.

With that said, a banning is largely unwarranted. You don't ban a card from destroying an archetype. After all, Timely Reinforcements was never on the hit list.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

Wizards hates counter-magic and burn decks.  People shouldnt have to make choices other than... should i play a deck based around terminus, thragtusk, or geralf.  Should I play 26 or 30 creatures?  Should I even feel good when I win, because it had nothing to do with the way I played my cards, just based on what I drew.

I dont care if people enjoy aggro and I only slightly care if wizards feels the need to make it more powerful.  but, I can't beleive they would be so arrogant and self-important to basically tell me I can't play the way I want to.  What is up with uncounterable and hexproof anyways?  It seems like Wizards just wants magic to be less and less about interacting with your opponent and more and more freindly to the table top player.

Really though... my buddy who never even plays magic competitively can pick up a thragtusk or zombie deck and pilot it to victory just as well as any of us can.  Why?  because you just draw cards.

Do we really need to play a game of war with $200 decks?  I can just spend $3 on a deck of playing cards and have the exact same experience.

Thanks for nothing wizards.  Once again, standard is unplayable and all these new sets are starting to filth up modern and legacy as well.  sad.

Hell, look at this weekend SCG top 12.  Thragtusk or Geralf?  The best part is people think they are being smart when they have different cards bookending those buildarounds... but the joke is on them.  You can Frites out your Thragtusk... you can play him with Restoration Angels, you can play him in a house, with a mouse... it doesnt matter.  Its just wizards taking advantage of stupid people pretending that these nearly identical decks with different titles are part of a diverse metagame.  They aren't... its a completely 1-dimensional metagame.  Thragtusk, Terminus or Geralf?  lame as ****.

The sad thing is... cards like Geralf (and its completely wizards-build zombie creature curve and perfect spell suite), thragtusk and terminus will be here for a whole year.  Which means I wont be able to play this attrocious, repetitive standard format until next october. 

This is sad.  I have no idea why my fellow magic colleagues are so blind to this atrocity... hey ignorance is bliss.  Hopefully, magic players snap to reality and start demanding that card designers start removing themselves from the card design process, stop building tournament decks and just make some balanced cards.
CoS was, from the beggining, completely unnecessary. It was a mistake to have printed it, and I always said it.

With that said, a banning is largely unwarranted. You don't ban a card from destroying an archetype. After all, Timely Reinforcements was never on the hit list.


I don't think Reinforcements can be compared to Cavern in the current context. Reinforcements was from a Core Set, meaning it had a year lifetime. It is colored, and has a notable mana cost. It can be countered, and doesn't always work out ideally. Cavern always works, and can be put down turn one to full effect. Land destruction is, of course, highly-inconvenient in a competetive format.

Cavern is practically an auto-include in any creature-heavy deck, and there is little reason not to play it.

I agree there is a fine line between "annoying" and "bannable", but I also think Cavern just has far too large an impact at no cost to stay around for another year.

The dominance of Thragtusk and other ultra-efficient creatures emphasizes this issue. Once they hit the field, they have a huge impact and can't be traded effectively, card for card. Counterspells are the only efficient, long-term removal for these creatures, not to mention they prevent the ETB effects. But by playing a land and saying "I declare Beast" or "Zombie", your opponent can rule this out with zero strategic input. There's no reason to not play an uncounterable Thragtusk or Messenger as soon as possible. The format is thus degraded into a race of whoever can draw better--this includes the luck-not-skill involved with Miracle draws. It's a shame, really. Standard could be so much more without Caverns.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
I'm sorry that all you blue players don't know how to use discard effects.
I'm sorry that all you blue players don't know how to use discard effects.


Elaborate?

Forcing your opponent to discard is black, and is exceptionally unreliable in "countering" (discarding) a 3, 4, or 5 drop before they are cast.
Milling is just bad.
Looting doesn't immediately help with creature threats, and puts me down on cards even if I draw an "answer".
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
CoS was, from the beggining, completely unnecessary. It was a mistake to have printed it, and I always said it.

With that said, a banning is largely unwarranted. You don't ban a card from destroying an archetype. After all, Timely Reinforcements was never on the hit list.


I don't think Reinforcements can be compared to Cavern in the current context. Reinforcements was from a Core Set, meaning it had a year lifetime. It is colored, and has a notable mana cost. It can be countered, and doesn't always work out ideally. Cavern always works, and can be put down turn one to full effect. Land destruction is, of course, highly-inconvenient in a competetive format.

Cavern is practically an auto-include in any creature-heavy deck, and there is little reason not to play it.

I agree there is a fine line between "annoying" and "bannable", but I also think Cavern just has far too large an impact at no cost to stay around for another year.

The dominance of Thragtusk and other ultra-efficient creatures emphasizes this issue. Once they hit the field, they have a huge impact and can't be traded effectively, card for card. Counterspells are the only efficient, long-term removal for these creatures, not to mention they prevent the ETB effects. But by playing a land and saying "I declare Beast" or "Zombie", your opponent can rule this out with zero strategic input. There's no reason to not play an uncounterable Thragtusk or Messenger as soon as possible. The format is thus degraded into a race of whoever can draw better--this includes the luck-not-skill involved with Miracle draws. It's a shame, really. Standard could be so much more without Caverns.



If you aren't playing tribal, Cavern can actually hurt you, since it will produce colorless mana for the other creatures.

Have you played during Cawblade Standard? The top 36 were a bunch of Cawblade on Cawblade. Even before Cawblade, people would splash blue just to play JTMS. We even had a Valakut version with blue! Before that, it was Raffinity, where you either played it or played a deck that was exactly made to counter it. Two decks. As for Kamigawa, Umezawa's Jitte was an auto-include in every deck as a four-of. If it had been colored, people would've splashed for it. And the only other Standard bannings were Necropotence and Tolarian Academy times.

So no, Cavern isn't even on the radar. Sure, it's annoying for people who like to play counterspells. However, your counters are still good against noncreature spells like Bonfire or Rites. Adapt to the metagame, as much as you dislike it. 

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

The irony of the whole situation is that cavern isn't even seeing much play right now

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

The irony of the whole situation is that cavern isn't even seeing much play right now



This.
There was more tribal synergy in the recently-rotated Standard than there is now, and they've gotten rid of Mana Leak, which arguably wasn't even that good the last few months.

Right now the only decks that will really be playing Cavern are misc. humans builds and zombies, and if you're running a lot of counterspells against aggro decks like that you're doing it wrong anyway.

I won't comment on the impact of Cavern on older formats though since I really don't play them as heavily.

Also to the person complaining about zombies:  Humans have a metric buttload of creatures that are maindeckable and absolutely drop a giant dump on zombies.  Red has Pillar of Flame and Annihilating Fire, and if you've played any white in your decks over the last 6 months Celestial Purge was a huge beating.
Well, Mana Leak wasn't good because of Cavern of Souls... 

Caverns are still necessary for color fixing for some of these aggro decks with really greedy mana bases. Do you need to play them? Probably not until there are real counterspells available.  
At this point the best counterspell in the format is izzet charm, and it doesn't even hit creatures. I wouldn't care about cavern so much if wizards would (a) print a 3-mana "exile target spell" or if one of the most powerful creatures in the format wasn't hexproof.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

oh please just cuz your archetype isnt dominant you are gonna QQ? First, if it hadnt been for CoS it would have been a totally awesome meta of delver and delver from Inn thru RtR. Second its drawback of colorless mana for creatures of the not named type as well as ALL non creature spells is enuf to hold it back substantially. Its gonna be used likely by 2 decks Zombies and maybe Humans because of he diversity of creatures in RtR.

Also control had its time in he sun quite a bit until the INN block between U/W, U/B and Caw-Blade. And just because control cant counter every spell its opponent casts doesnt mean it cant be played, control players will just have to adjust to use more discard/removal/tuck spells. Considering the mana base is strong enuf to run 3 colors easily and splashing a forth is doable that opens up a ton of options for control oher than counters. Might be control players have to spend time brewing rather than just shoving the best counters and card draw in with the bomb of choice.

Also 5 uncounterable spells does not balance control especiall since one of them itself is useless to all but control.

And lastly i love, JUST LOVE, when control player complain about a lack of interaction which is exactly what they seek to do to other players.
Ebontail, you don't know what interaction means.

Counterspells and control generally are highly interactive - the reason people hate them is because they interact too much. People like to be able to do their own thing without their opponent interfering.
Also, Caw Blade wasn't Control.

Also, Cavern had no impact on Delver other than making it stronger; Thragtusk (to some extent) plus the rotation of Ponder and Phantasmal Image essentially killed the archetype anyway.

Control decks now take LESS effort to build because answers are so poor - instead they just take the best sweepers available, the best threats (Thragtusk + Angel) and the best card draw and jam it together. Which is exactly the (false) complaint you level against pre-rotation control, which didn't actually exist.

You're welcome to hate playing against Control because they don't let you enjoy your games, but at least be accurate in your criticism before you shoot your mouth off about things you are factually incorrect on.
Also, Caw Blade wasn't Control. Also, Cavern had no impact on Delver other than making it stronger; Thragtusk (to some extent) plus the rotation of Ponder and Phantasmal Image essentially killed the archetype anyway. Control decks now take LESS effort to build because answers are so poor - instead they just take the best sweepers available, the best threats (Thragtusk + Angel) and the best card draw and jam it together. Which is exactly the (false) complaint you level against pre-rotation control, which didn't actually exist. You're welcome to hate playing against Control because they don't let you enjoy your games, but at least be accurate in your criticism before you shoot your mouth off about things you are factually incorrect on.



DING!

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

I miss rune snag
Ebontail, you don't know what interaction means. Counterspells and control generally are highly interactive - the reason people hate them is because they interact too much. People like to be able to do their own thing without their opponent interfering.



Interacting with permanents is no different from interacting with spells, except that same permanent can have interactions over multiple turns.. 

Also screw cavern of  souls. Because its mere  existence is preventing people from building their decks right. who cares if it actually does something (which it doesnt)

If you aren't playing tribal, Cavern can actually hurt you, since it will produce colorless mana for the other creatures.

 
It actually ALWAYS screws  over the colors of your noncreature SPELLS.
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Proud member of the Rakdos guild
i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive. Sure counters allow their player to interact with spells rather than just permanents but for the opponent it severly limits any interactivity. And, read again, i didnt say counters werent interactive i said controls object is to limit their opponent interactivity, by removing any significant means of doing such.

Also how is Caw not control? yeah it gets an aggressive creature out early and slaps a sword on them but once thats accomplished they sit back and use JMS and counters to control the game. The only difference between that and traditional control is that your threat comes down early rather than later. Sure that gives it an aggro feel but when you look at it it plays much more like cintrol than say RDW or zombies.

And to say cavern had no impact on delver is just nonsense, snapcaster gave delver 8-12 counters off of 4-6 spells and when you add resto angel to the mix it would have been as oppressive as caw-blade, having an early threat and a way to essentially turn your GY into an extension of your hand with which to grind your opponent into nothing with the added card advantage.
uninteractive is playing end step deceiver exarch untap and play splinter twin.... fun game

my point is that combo decks are typically that which is uninteractive.  the control player holding up mana for a counterspell is interacting insofar as he needs to respect the fact that his opponent will have activity which may need to be answered, thus he leaves open resources to deal with those activities. 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive.


Frankly, this just means that you're bad. You have to learn to play through counter-magic, not just around it. I find it quite amusing that people somehow equate "my opponent has a counter" with "my spells don't exist." If people would just learn how to play against Blue, all of these problems would go away. 

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive.


Frankly, this just means that you're bad. You have to learn to play through counter-magic, not just around it. I find it quite amusing that people somehow equate "my opponent has a counter" with "my spells don't exist." If people would just learn how to play against Blue, all of these problems would go away. 



yea, all of you man up and learn to play against blue players so wotc will stop nerfing my good blue cards

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive.



I don't consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a Dreadbore in hand and I'm winning with creatuers as interactive.

Sure counters allow their player to interact with spells rather than just permanents but for the opponent it severly limits any interactivity. And, read again, i didnt say counters werent interactive i said controls object is to limit their opponent interactivity, by removing any significant means of doing such.



You're not limiting their way of interacting. You're limiting their way to kill you.

Also how is Caw not control? yeah it gets an aggressive creature out early and slaps a sword on them but once thats accomplished they sit back and use JMS and counters to control the game. The only difference between that and traditional control is that your threat comes down early rather than later. 
Sure that gives it an aggro feel but when you look at it it plays much more like control than say RDW or zombies.



Winning with a two-mana spells equipped with a three-mana equipment while drawing from a four-mana planeswalker is *not* control. Control is about answering your opponent threats until you can land finishers and destroy all opposition. It's not about dropping a creature, boosting it then protecting it.

And to say cavern had no impact on delver is just nonsense, snapcaster gave delver 8-12 counters off of 4-6 spells and when you add resto angel to the mix it would have been as oppressive as caw-blade, having an early threat and a way to essentially turn your GY into an extension of your hand with which to grind your opponent into nothing with the added card advantage.



Delver played two Mana Leaks, when it played any. They used their Snappies to bounce all blockers and Resto to protect Delver.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive.


Frankly, this just means that you're bad. You have to learn to play through counter-magic, not just around it. I find it quite amusing that people somehow equate "my opponent has a counter" with "my spells don't exist." If people would just learn how to play against Blue, all of these problems would go away. 



Freaking this. I was there once too, just not casting spells against control because I was afraid they'd get countered. Then I realized that that's stupid. If you're not casting spells to get your opponent to use up their counters, what are you waiting for? Some magical turn where your opponent will be unable to use his counters? The longer you wait, the more your opponent will be able to do during their turn (ie, casting fat) while leaving mana up for your turn, not to mention accrue more answers to whatever threats you're apparently not casting. 
The irrational response to blue control, noted above, is common in new and/or bad players. Heck, today I was playing someone (who plays a monogreen deck without any removal and more than its share of flashy mythics, if that tells you anything) and he complained that he "couldn't cast anything" because I had countered one of his creatures beforehand. His friend had to remind him to look at my mana, which was all tapped. Only then did he go to cast his next creature.

There is a misconception that counterspells are unstoppable and uninteractive, but really they, like other instants, lead to the most interactive plays in Magic: "Oh, I just topdecked a Thragtusk on turn 5, let's tap my cavern and play it so I can win already." vs. "He revealed a Izzet Charm a couple turns ago to flip his delver, but hasn't played it yet and has 4 lands untapped, so I will cast my miracled Bonfire for X=3 instead of 5. But he only has delvers and GoSTs out, so I should do it at X=2 just to be safe and avoid a syncopate." There is some thought that goes into choosing what to play from your hand, be it Thragtusk or Messenger + some relevant 2-drop, but it doesn't compare to the thought process that goes into predicting counterspells/removal, dealing with the stack and adapting to a blind counterspell or other instant. Counterspells are a good thing, and it's a shame that Wizards has to hose them beyond their largely-balanced, if not underpowered, state in Standard.

Counterspells in extended formats, modern, legacy, etc. are a totally different story, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of players have bad feelings towards counterspells because of some of the older cards. I have no gripes with Cavern being a thing in those formats. But Force of Will or any counter remotely near its powerlevel is not Standard.

Caw Blade, etc. should not be representative of what Standard has to be.

Case in point: if Wizards is going to print efficient mechanics like undying, hexproof and ultra-powerful ETB effects on creatures, they should encourage similarly efficient ways of dealing with them, not discourage them.

I find it odd that Wizards is printing all this graveyard hate in RtR when flashback and undying as mechanics aren't nearly as format warping (if you could say that) as creatures like GoST, Thrag, Messenger, and to a lesser extent Aristocrat and others. Creatures can be countered. WotC doesn't need to hose the many archetypes that utilize the graveyard- to deal with an issue that can be solved by bumping anti-creature counterspells up to a playable level. I wouldn't be surprised if Rest in Peace is the subject of much more disgruntlement than Caverns, or if it is banned from some formats.

Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
To everyone saying blue needs to be better: Blue still is the best color in magic and again in T2. Jace, Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Augur of Bolas, Sphinx' Revelations, Tamiyo, Supreme Verdict, Geist and so on are amazing cards that deck with most threats in this format. Time and time again we're reminded that blue doesn't need good counterspells to be a powerhouse. 
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
To everyone saying blue needs to be better: Blue still is the best color in magic and again in T2. Jace, Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Augur of Bolas, Sphinx' Revelations, Tamiyo, Supreme Verdict, Geist and so on are amazing cards that deck with most threats in this format. Time and time again we're reminded that blue doesn't need good counterspells to be a powerhouse. 


But I don't want to have to play white for my U/X/x deck to be playable. Okay, that sounds really whiny. I'll put it this way. U != UW. I'm not saying UW or U/X needs to be have more power cards. 
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
To everyone saying blue needs to be better: Blue still is the best color in magic and again in T2. Jace, Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Augur of Bolas, Sphinx' Revelations, Tamiyo, Supreme Verdict, Geist and so on are amazing cards that deck with most threats in this format. Time and time again we're reminded that blue doesn't need good counterspells to be a powerhouse. 


But I don't want to have to play white for my U/X/x deck to be playable. Okay, that sounds really whiny. I'll put it this way. U != UW. I'm not saying UW or U/X needs to be have more power cards. 


We're in an age of a multicolor set. Mono anything will not be playable by design. No color is powerful enough on its own to stand a chance against top decks in this meta; blue is no exception. 
The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet

Freaking this. I was there once too, just not casting spells against control because I was afraid they'd get countered.



Problem is not that the spells get countered. Thats 1 for 1 interaction. The  problem is blue having the best carddraw to replace used cards. Thankfully wizards has managed to print SOME carddraw to nonblue colors these days ( I have played magic for about 18 years, its not always been like that.). Too bad its still generally not good enough. Garruk primal hunter is getting there.

Anyways, counterspells are at an all  time low currently.. Its a refreshing change. 
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Proud member of the Rakdos guild

Freaking this. I was there once too, just not casting spells against control because I was afraid they'd get countered.



Problem is not that the spells get countered. Thats 1 for 1 interaction. The  problem is blue having the best carddraw to replace used cards. Thankfully wizards has managed to print SOME carddraw to nonblue colors these days ( I have played magic for about 18 years, its not always been like that.). Too bad its still generally not good enough. Garruk primal hunter is getting there.

Anyways, counterspells are at an all  time low currently.. Its a refreshing change. 



What about the era of Jund. If blue becomes bad, that is what we end up with. Most people agreed it was the least skill intensive and one of the worst standard formats for a very long time.
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attention:  playing syncopate is just fine, thing is a fine coutnerspell, specifically for control decks.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

To everyone saying blue needs to be better: Blue still is the best color in magic and again in T2. Jace, Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Augur of Bolas, Sphinx' Revelations, Tamiyo, Supreme Verdict, Geist and so on are amazing cards that deck with most threats in this format. Time and time again we're reminded that blue doesn't need good counterspells to be a powerhouse. 


But I don't want to have to play white for my U/X/x deck to be playable. Okay, that sounds really whiny. I'll put it this way. U != UW. I'm not saying UW or U/X needs to be have more power cards. 


We're in an age of a multicolor set. Mono anything will not be playable by design. No color is powerful enough on its own to stand a chance against top decks in this meta; blue is no exception. 



During the last ravnica set which is also multi-colored, RDW, MGA and Mono-Black decks and Mono-Blue control did just fine. Of course this may not be possible with the current cardpool (I couldn't judge since it's too early in the meta) but it is possible to play mono-colored in a multi-color set.
During the last ravnica set which is also multi-colored, RDW, MGA and Mono-Black decks and Mono-Blue control did just fine.

No, they didn't. There was a burn deck that splashed white for Lightning Helix, MGA was completely outclassed by G/W Glare, Mono Blue Jushi was a move-over from block that was detroyed in the Worlds and MMono Black Kokusho Control was something that forums posters wanted to believe in.

Best decks were Hand in Hand, Ghost Dad, Ghazi-Glare, UR Tron, UR Wildfire, RG Aggro, Zoo, Greater Good, Gifts Combo, Angelfire Control, Junk Control, and so on.

The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
During the last ravnica set which is also multi-colored, RDW, MGA and Mono-Black decks and Mono-Blue control did just fine.

No, they didn't. There was a burn deck that splashed white for Lightning Helix, MGA was completely outclassed by G/W Glare, Mono Blue Jushi was a move-over from block that was detroyed in the Worlds and MMono Black Kokusho Control was something that forums posters wanted to believe in.

Best decks were Hand in Hand, Ghost Dad, Ghazi-Glare, UR Tron, UR Wildfire, RG Aggro, Zoo, Greater Good, Gifts Combo, Angelfire Control, Junk Control, and so on.




One of the Top 8 US Nationals is an MGA, just on top of my head. True, there are a lot more of multi-colored decks but monos are still there in Top 8s.


Lists!

Show

www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Henry Pagan (White Weenie), 3rd place, Alaska Regionals 2006
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Tony Geiling (Mono Black Midrange/Discard), 7th place, Republic of Korea Regionals 2006 
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Alex Hughes (MGA), 5th place, Washington-Seattle Regionals 2006
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Mcleod Stewart (MGA), 8th place, New Mexico Regionals 2006
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Noah Long (Mono Black Midrange) 5th place, Ontario Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Dale Mollenkoph (Mono Blue Pickles), 7th place, Nova Scotia Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Adam Redfern (RDW), 3rd place, Newfoundland Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Daniel Seewald and Curtis Rasmussen (Mono Black Midrange and RDW, respectively), 2nd and 8th place, Manitoba Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Chat Bennet (RDW), 8th place, Utah Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... AAron Prieto (Mono Blue Control) and Chris Amburn (RDW), 4th and 6th place, Texas Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... John Conrad Kolos (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 4th place, Pennsylvania Regionals 2007
www.wizards.co Kornacm/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/regionals07/charlotte Matt Nash (RDW), 8th place, North Carolina Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... James Beltz (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 8th place, Minnesota Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Bob Havlovic (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 1st place, Chicago Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Kyle Packhurst (Mono Blue Pickles), 4th place, Atlanta Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Nathaniel Kader (MGA), 1st place, Florida Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Andres Miguel (Monoblack Discarder/Rack), 1st place, Florida Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Basil Nabi (RDW), 6th place, California Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Jon Kornacki (RDW), 6th place, Arizona Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Matt Hay (Mono Red Storm Combo) and Robert Teale (White Weenie), 5th and 7th place, Glasgow Regionals 2007
 www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Konrad Kamola (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 2nd place, London Regionals 2007
 www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Ian Davey (Mono Black Aggro), 4th place, High Wycombe Regionals 2007

And from Deckcheck:

MGAs

www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5819 Michael Jacob, US Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5863 Me!, Manila Regionals 2007 and National Qualifiers 2007 (and that's supposed to be Philippines, not New Zealand)
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6034 Aare Klooster, Estonian Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6126 Christian Bakkehaug, Norway Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6274 David rada, Venezuela nationals 2007

RDW

www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5962 Arvin Bartolome, Phil. National Qualifiers 2007

Mono Black Korlash Control/Rack/Discarder

www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6063 Seraj Haroun, South africa Nationals 2007
 www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6159 Frank roelofs, Dutch Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6203 Matthew Viennaeu, Canada Nationals 2007

Pickles
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5716 Lorenz Cortezo, Phil. National Qualifiers 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5865 Jorge Jocson, Phil. National Qualifiers 2007



You forgot that Ravnica is still there when Time Spiral showed up and Mono-colored decks shined there, but they were also present during the Kamigawa-Ravnica block. Aside from the proof above I also based this on experience by piloting a MGA and getting top 8 on Manila Regionals 2007 and the National Qualifiers 2007.



but who the hell would want to play a mono colored deck when a ravnica block is standard legal.  sounds really, really boring.

i remember those mono green lists.... bah.... play a real deck! 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

One of the Top 8 US Nationals is an MGA, just on top of my head. True, there are a lot more of multi-colored decks but monos are still there in Top 8s.


Lists!

Show

www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Henry Pagan (White Weenie), 3rd place, Alaska Regionals 2006
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Tony Geiling (Mono Black Midrange/Discard), 7th place, Republic of Korea Regionals 2006 
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Alex Hughes (MGA), 5th place, Washington-Seattle Regionals 2006
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Mcleod Stewart (MGA), 8th place, New Mexico Regionals 2006
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Noah Long (Mono Black Midrange) 5th place, Ontario Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Dale Mollenkoph (Mono Blue Pickles), 7th place, Nova Scotia Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Adam Redfern (RDW), 3rd place, Newfoundland Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Daniel Seewald and Curtis Rasmussen (Mono Black Midrange and RDW, respectively), 2nd and 8th place, Manitoba Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Chat Bennet (RDW), 8th place, Utah Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... AAron Prieto (Mono Blue Control) and Chris Amburn (RDW), 4th and 6th place, Texas Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... John Conrad Kolos (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 4th place, Pennsylvania Regionals 2007
www.wizards.co Kornacm/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/regionals07/charlotte Matt Nash (RDW), 8th place, North Carolina Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... James Beltz (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 8th place, Minnesota Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Bob Havlovic (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 1st place, Chicago Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Kyle Packhurst (Mono Blue Pickles), 4th place, Atlanta Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Nathaniel Kader (MGA), 1st place, Florida Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Andres Miguel (Monoblack Discarder/Rack), 1st place, Florida Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Basil Nabi (RDW), 6th place, California Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Jon Kornacki (RDW), 6th place, Arizona Regionals 2007
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Matt Hay (Mono Red Storm Combo) and Robert Teale (White Weenie), 5th and 7th place, Glasgow Regionals 2007
 www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Konrad Kamola (Mono Black Discarder/Rack), 2nd place, London Regionals 2007
 www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.as... Ian Davey (Mono Black Aggro), 4th place, High Wycombe Regionals 2007

And from Deckcheck:

MGAs

www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5819 Michael Jacob, US Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5863 Me!, Manila Regionals 2007 and National Qualifiers 2007 (and that's supposed to be Philippines, not New Zealand)
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6034 Aare Klooster, Estonian Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6126 Christian Bakkehaug, Norway Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6274 David rada, Venezuela nationals 2007

RDW

www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5962 Arvin Bartolome, Phil. National Qualifiers 2007

Mono Black Korlash Control/Rack/Discarder

www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6063 Seraj Haroun, South africa Nationals 2007
 www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6159 Frank roelofs, Dutch Nationals 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=6203 Matthew Viennaeu, Canada Nationals 2007

Pickles
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5716 Lorenz Cortezo, Phil. National Qualifiers 2007
www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5865 Jorge Jocson, Phil. National Qualifiers 2007



You forgot that Ravnica is still there when Time Spiral showed up and Mono-colored decks shined there, but they were also present during the Kamigawa-Ravnica block. Aside from the proof above I also based this on experience by piloting a MGA and getting top 8 on Manila Regionals 2007 and the National Qualifiers 2007.




No offense to you, since the deck actually served you well; but most mono colored decks were the poorman's choice since mana bases during Rav was pretty expensive. A control deck would start around 300$ right off with the mana bases. But it was more or less understood that mono colored decks were just not as competitive. 

But the deal with Rav-Tsp era especially (Since during Kami-Rav, mono colored decks practically didn't even exist) was that the card pool was the largest in T2 as it ever has been. There were so many decks, that not only there was room for mono colored cards to flourish - but the meta was so capricious and hard to tell, that even MGA could snag a win in the right room, which is exactly what happened.

This Rav is smaller than original Rav, and most of the cards being limited fodder, most good cards are multi-colored.  There is not much room for mono colored cards to shine in this block nor in the one before. Thus it's inevitable that there's small room for mono colored decks. 

On a final note, regionals weren't the pinacle of competition; though there were few less tournaments back then so they were spotligted, but we all used to take regionals list with a grain of salt, especially when Alaskan regionals was one time taken down by a singleton deck. Your efforts were commendable, but I think we have different definitions of what 'viable' is.

One thing that did shock me was MJ's nationals finish, but hey, I've seen odder things happen.
but who the hell would want to play a mono colored deck when a ravnica block is standard legal.  sounds really, really boring.

Poor people?
i remember those mono green lists.... bah.... play a real deck! 

I share these sentiments fully. 

The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet



wasn't that the deck that did showed that playing 4 cryptic commands and 4 reflecting pools were all you needed to win?

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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During the last ravnica set which is also multi-colored, RDW, MGA and Mono-Black decks and Mono-Blue control did just fine.

No, they didn't. There was a burn deck that splashed white for Lightning Helix, MGA was completely outclassed by G/W Glare, Mono Blue Jushi was a move-over from block that was detroyed in the Worlds and MMono Black Kokusho Control was something that forums posters wanted to believe in.

Best decks were Hand in Hand, Ghost Dad, Ghazi-Glare, UR Tron, UR Wildfire, RG Aggro, Zoo, Greater Good, Gifts Combo, Angelfire Control, Junk Control, and so on.




To be fair, Jushi Blue did okay until they tried to splash Dark Confidant. The Bob The Builder decks died to everything because they kept doming themselves for 5 or 6 with Keiga or Meloku.

That being said, Nassif's proactive blue was significantly stronger than Jushi decks post-Mirrodin. Losing Bribery, Magpie and Vedalken Shackles made proactive blue strategies much weaker, so Tron just became better because it could go big.
 No offense to you, since the deck actually served you well; but most mono colored decks were the poorman's choice since mana bases during Rav was pretty expensive.



And this made them less competitive how? I've Top 8ed in another big tournament with a Poorlash deck, but winning big three times in a row with "poorman" decks is just a fluke amirite? Because expensive decks are toooooooootally needed in order to win.


A control deck would start around 300$ right off with the mana bases. But it was more or less understood that mono colored decks were just not as competitive.



I think it was more or less understood with the evidence I've presented that mono-colored decks during that time can be competitive. It's not a fluke: you can see the same deck archetypes (Mono-Black Discarder and MGA) showing more consistently than others. And they weren't played that much, even if as you have said, they are the poorman's choice.



On a final note, regionals weren't the pinacle of competition; though there were few less tournaments back then so they were spotligted, but we all used to take regionals list with a grain of salt, especially when Alaskan regionals was one time taken down by a singleton deck. 



I just showed you multiple instances of MGA in Top 8 Nationals (NOT regionals) of several countries, as well as other mono-colored decks in other countries in Nationals (US, Estonia, Norway, Canada, South Africa, Venezuela). If I remember Japan is one of them but for the life of me I cannot find that decklist. If you know other databases (I only relied on Wizards and they only showed Regionals), feel free to check them out and I would happily point out that there are mono-colored decks there?

But I guess the only viable competitive lists are the ones who win at Worlds, right? 


Your efforts were commendable, but I think we have different definitions of what 'viable' is.

 

Isn't the basis of of viable competitively is how it, you know, wins in competitions consistently, which I just handily shown you that IT DOES?

Viable does not mean it has to be expensive. Viable does not mean it has to be popular. Viable means it can win consistently.


You can say it's boring or it'll probably die in the wrong meta or whatever, but don't ignore the evidence that it is viable.



but who the hell would want to play a mono colored deck when a ravnica block is standard legal.  sounds really, really boring.



But who would want to play multi-colored decks when everyone else is playing them? 
you have to buil daround cavern and were i play up hear in mn my uwr couter burn takes out cavern all day its not a problem for me so idk why all you wnat to do is complain but just back down and find a way to beat it i dont play thrag or delver or any of that i play 3 colors most of the time and well every on hates it so just find some thing to play that has answers that you need 
 
you have to buil daround cavern and were i play up hear in mn my uwr couter burn takes out cavern all day its not a problem for me so idk why all you wnat to do is complain but just back down and find a way to beat it i dont play thrag or delver or any of that i play 3 colors most of the time and well every on hates it so just find some thing to play that has answers that you need 
 



I'll. Just. Make. Up. For. Your. Post. With. This. One.

Should. Balance. Out. 

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012

Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

Y'know, I don't even care about CoS that much. But like I said in another thread, if you print a card like that then feel free to print good counters as well.
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