Warbands

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So I just recently Purchased Dungeon Command I figured I would try it out.  I played DDM alot with a few friends never any tourniments or anything.


This is just a matter of opinion and people who read it can take it with a grain of salt.  I honestly like this game far better than DDM there is just one thing that bugs me about this game and thats custom warbands.  In DDM there were limits to what kind of creatures could rally with what (granted there are also house rules if you want them etc this I am aware of)  But we would spend literally an hour or two sorting through cards picking what we wanted for our custom warband.  In Dungeon command I thought wow this is done for you cool!  

So I bought 1 of each of the 3 factions and noticed that playing with the cards given (order cards specifically) It was impossible to actually win with the goblins against the drow.  So I decided to get an extra set of each and mix and match because I liked making bigger maps and the like and customizing creatures decks.  Basically this lead to the Drow set and the Cormyr set. Pretty simply scavenging from the goblin set.  Most dex creatures worked well with Drow and they're order cards (customized by this point mind you staying by the rules in the book) and the heavy creatures such as the trolls worked well in the Cormyr.  But then I sit and look and there is really just two factions instead of three and the goblin box just supplments both.  This really bothered me. 

I am also a big fan of StarCraft1/2 and most RTS and how each race has their own unique style and they dont really take from the other races.   Another example would be Warhammer and how each race have their own theme and synergy.  (ive never played warhammer I just know of them, too costly to be honest) It just seems to take away from the general theme of a faction when you break apart each set and play a cormyr warband with hobgoblins and trolls mixed in.  Instead of focusing on makeing a good goblin faction which can be good with a custom order deck but when I played it we play it out of the box so.

TLDR:  What I am getting at is customizing order decks is fine but should we really break up the factions of creatures just to abuse certain powerful abilities.  for example the low level drow wizard replacing elf archers and that kind of thing.  I understand that obivously you can make house rules along those lines.  But what if you could only customize creature decks from that faction?     

  
While I will agree that the Drow set (Straight out of the box) seems to have an advantage agains't the other sets, I have seen the Goblins win, their ability to heal/mob can beat the Drows Ability to dodge at times.

I understand what you are saying, however keep in mind that certain Cards such as Lolth's Blessing, Web, and others (Can you tell I play only Drow? :P) has keywords like "Requires" and "Affinity", while they arn't forcing you to have a mixed band, having "Evil" creatures will allow you to use more cards.

While you say there needs to be something that makes you stay within a set, there are abilities now that encourage it, Drow Preistess allows you to deploy Spiders around her. Dwarfen Defender gives Block 10 to adj Adventurers. Hobgob Sorc gives Tap to block 10 to all Gobs/Hobgobs and Bugbears.

Keep in mind how new the game is. The Tournament format is still coming out, I have a feeling once the Undead Set hits, we will see Offical Rules regarding Warband Construction.    
My Commander Decks Zur The En-hancer Omnomnom

I understand what you are saying, however keep in mind that certain Cards such as Lolth's Blessing, Web, and others (Can you tell I play only Drow? :P) has keywords like "Requires" and "Affinity", while they arn't forcing you to have a mixed band, having "Evil" creatures will allow you to use more cards.

While you say there needs to be something that makes you stay within a set, there are abilities now that encourage it, Drow Preistess allows you to deploy Spiders around her. Dwarfen Defender gives Block 10 to adj Adventurers. Hobgob Sorc gives Tap to block 10 to all Gobs/Hobgobs and Bugbears.

Keep in mind how new the game is. The Tournament format is still coming out, I have a feeling once the Undead Set hits, we will see Offical Rules regarding Warband Construction.    



I would like to point out the affinity on order cards like with farie fire are also useable by any other INT creatures.  And a couple Drow Creatures have the title "adventurer" and lolth's blessing is the only card thats specific to "evil".  Atleast for now(that I know of).  The only thing that really gives you a bonus at keeping to the theme are the commanders.  But if you mix and match your commanders why would you not have drow houseguards, with war wizards, and priests mixed with a couple dragons in a creature deck and not even bother with anything level 1.  Evetually leading to most custom warbands being exactly the same with no diversity.  

On that note what about limiting the number of levels you can have.  I know they limit 4 of each card but 4 level 6-5 creatures can be pretty difficult to take on in a standard 12 card creature deck especaillly horned devil and copper dragon mix.   (Ive been play with double decks as to simply have more soldiers and since the I make the map more for a 4 player size so there are more tokens for moral.  To allow for some fairly big creatures on the board at one time since the game lasts longer and leadership can easily cap out.)
I agree. Story wise some combinations don't make much sense. If that bothers you and your friends I'd make a few houserules like you mentioned.

As a game and forgetting story for a minute the mixing is brilliant and I prefer to play that way. To each his own, I suppose.

As for "everyone using the same creatures"...uhm no, not at all. You and me are already using different creatures since I don't use the dragons and do use the elves. The deck I'm currently testing has 6 level 1 creatures in it. Of course, the way you play with a board twice the size of "normal" makes for an entirely different game. Anyway, my point is that it isn't true at all that we'll only see the same decks.
I am really old school so I tend to not mix Evil and Good warbands.  If it doesn't make sense in my mind I just can't seem to get myself to do it.  I could see intermixing Tyranny and Lolth though, haven't done it, but wouldn't have a problem with it.  Mixing Drow and Cormyr though in my mind just doesn't work.

My hope is that they come out with booster packs of creatures in the future and make some neutral, that way you can place them wherever you want.
  
The folks I play with are all beginners anyway and don't have a ton of time on their hands to play with thier sets all that much.  That has been another reason for me to keep mine pretty basic, only making some inter-warband additions/subtractions.
I agree. Story wise some combinations don't make much sense. If that bothers you and your friends I'd make a few houserules like you mentioned. As a game and forgetting story for a minute the mixing is brilliant and I prefer to play that way. To each his own, I suppose. As for "everyone using the same creatures"...uhm no, not at all. You and me are already using different creatures since I don't use the dragons and do use the elves. The deck I'm currently testing has 6 level 1 creatures in it. Of course, the way you play with a board twice the size of "normal" makes for an entirely different game. Anyway, my point is that it isn't true at all that we'll only see the same decks.




Well when you play on a small map for 1v1. Its really confined and you cant really use speed to your advantage as much as larger map setups.  Even so with a standard 12 creature warband.  2 level 5+ creatures can own the board.  Since the Dragon is also such a beefy unit and ranged on top splash he is by far the best choice for any warband.  Combined with many ranged units behind him like the war wizard and the drow wizard can pretty much pick off anything headed their way and if something does come close the Dragon can take them in melee.  Add a cleric in that mess and you have a potent warband that may have a disadvantage of not having fast weak creatures to collect treasure.  It wont matter if they can pick them off from half the map away.


Now basically what we do for the larger scale games is starting moral and leadership do not change.  I find that is better that way so you dont have 2+ trolls on the map in round 1.  I have roughly 6 sets of maps (2 of each set)  and we set it up to mirror each side as to be balanced for each side protals,cover, etc  We had a limit of 24 creature cards and a limit of 60 order cards (we were just testing it out)  Then play as normal.  When leadership is maxed out we used tokens to keep track of it beyond 25.  When then decided that 25 should be the cap and that has worked much better.


I dont know I just felt it weird that they would make a game thats faction based but then allow mix matching.  
I am really old school so I tend to not mix Evil and Good warbands.  If it doesn't make sense in my mind I just can't seem to get myself to do it.  I could see intermixing Tyranny and Lolth though, haven't done it, but wouldn't have a problem with it.  Mixing Drow and Cormyr though in my mind just doesn't work.

My hope is that they come out with booster packs of creatures in the future and make some neutral, that way you can place them wherever you want.
  
The folks I play with are all beginners anyway and don't have a ton of time on their hands to play with thier sets all that much.  That has been another reason for me to keep mine pretty basic, only making some inter-warband additions/subtractions.



I would have to agree with you
  
Booster packs or expantion packs for each faction would be nice.  but honestly the big issue I see with this game is the variety of map choices.  That was an issue I had with DDM as well.  I like the interlocking tiles and I wish they could expand on this.  Different areas like towns, maybe something with lava where a certain unit can push another into it for dmg.   

Creature Card packs for DDM would be cool that would save me ALOT of money lol but I doubt that will happen.
Ordercard packs would be awesome too. 
Sorry but if properly built and played, the Goblins just eat through warbands built around beefy level 5s and 6s. I've been playing a double Tyranny of Goblins warband (with cards from 2x Lolth and 2x Cormyr sets, plus a few extras I got as tournament prizes, like the 3rd Arcane Circle for instance, and now a 3rd Goblin Archer and a 3rd Reinforcements) for two weeks at our local tourneys and I'm still undefeated. The large guys are just way too expensive and it means you are tying up your points in a single creature, leaving you with few activations.

In fact, I've had two games where I won through the alternate win condition of wiping the board of opposing creatures, though since that dropped my opponent to 1 or 2 Morale that was still pretty much in the bag for me even without that rule.

You haven't lived until you've played a turn with 7 creatures on the field, 5 of whom get to attack your opponent with a Goblin War Cry active.
Sorry but if properly built and played, the Goblins just eat through warbands built around beefy level 5s and 6s. I've been playing a double Tyranny of Goblins warband (with cards from 2x Lolth and 2x Cormyr sets, plus a few extras I got as tournament prizes, like the 3rd Arcane Circle for instance, and now a 3rd Goblin Archer and a 3rd Reinforcements) for two weeks at our local tourneys and I'm still undefeated. The large guys are just way too expensive and it means you are tying up your points in a single creature, leaving you with few activations.

In fact, I've had two games where I won through the alternate win condition of wiping the board of opposing creatures, though since that dropped my opponent to 1 or 2 Morale that was still pretty much in the bag for me even without that rule.

You haven't lived until you've played a turn with 7 creatures on the field, 5 of whom get to attack your opponent with a Goblin War Cry active.




To be fair I didnt use cards from any other decks/factions.  However I will mix one up and see how it goes.  I admit Im still learing the game and was hoping to find better rule clarification in here but to no avail.  I admit the Drow seem easier to play.

Bane172,

I thought I was the only one that was thinking this game was kinda screwy, but we have similar thoughts on the matter. I find it hard to believe that the best use of this game is to buy 4 packs of each faction and min-max each until you get the one team that wins the meta (until the next set comes out and feature creeps). I also really dislike the idea of mixing factions to make all this happen, when it could have all been faction contained, but allow different team/deck building from within.

In my mind, only the heavy tournament guys will be tweaking out the decks and spending their money to completely trick them out. It's sad that the basic game must suffer in order for WotC to sell 4 boxes of each set (cause really, who needs to see 4 arcane circles in play?). Selling off decks would have been a great way to make money, that everyone could have been involved with. Sigh.

I  tried to start a discussion on the "Team Building for the Masses" topic, I would love to have your input since we seem to be of like mind.
The warband I built is quite playable with only 2x of each set. And I'm not even close to owning 4x of everything, I have a couple 3x because of our tournament setups (where we basically buy one box with players entry fees and split the stuff inside based on final standings). Not getting a Reinforcement is scary for instance but you can probably just increase the high end a bit with a Horned Devil in place of the third Archer, which gives you something to dump points in at the end game if you don't get Reinforcement.

There is no single awesome warband. Goblins gets rolled over by Fireball for instance, and even the Drow have access to Drow Blademaster and Quick Jab to clear up the board of Goblins. They roll over the large guys, and the large guys really make midrange pieces suffer. There's a lot of tools already to meta against the ultra-tweaked out warbands.