outsiders and magic jar???

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the description of the type of outsider say that the body of the outsider is her soul too, therefore that magic jar dragging all the body and the spell is braking automatically like in the case of a ghost because you dont have body to stay????
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
huh?
the description of the type of outsider say that the body of the outsider is her soul too, therefore that magic jar dragging all the body and the spell is braking automatically like in the case of a ghost because you dont have body to stay????


wen body ghost as implication, magic jar brak auto's all the time.  outsider is greater than ghost, nop, jar drags all tiem.
the description of the type of outsider say that the body of the outsider is her soul too, therefore that magic jar dragging all the body and the spell is braking automatically like in the case of a ghost because you dont have body to stay????


wen body ghost as implication, magic jar brak auto's all the time.  outsider is greater than ghost, nop, jar drags all tiem.



entonches la trampilla esa no se chupa al canijillo ese???

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.

Sorry.  We use English on these boards.  Undecided 

@Yogumi - I could make the same response to your first post Undecided

Back on topic, this is actually a pretty good question because the rules are not explicit on this (which is pretty common in 3.5, really)

The text for both elementals and outsiders is the same:
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider/elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider/elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider/elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.


Outsiders also have this additional line:
An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.



The description of magic jar states that you try to possess the creature, and if it fails a saving throw, you take over its body and force its soul into the jar.

Ultimately, this scenario has to be decided by your Dungeon Master, because the rules are not specific.
Here's how I would rule for various special creature types as a DM:


  • Outsiders - automatically make the saving throw, because the soul cannot be removed from the body.


  1. Native outsiders can be affected normally, because their souls can be removed and returned.

  2. Note that even if the DM rules that Magic Jar can be used on outsiders, that many powerful outsiders, such as Angels and Archons, have a constant Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil effect, which blocks Magic Jar.  Some other outsiders can use similar powers as a spell-like ability, so they may have it in effect while you are trying to use magic jar.


  • Elementals - also automatically make the saving throw, and they don't usually even have a "body" anyway (fire and air elementals, for example)

  • Constructs - are completely immune to all necromantic effects.  You actually would not even detect them while you are in the Jar because they do not have any sort of life force, so you couldn't try to target them with it anyway.  (This is the one case that is explicitly in the rules)

  • Undead - depends on the type


    1. Incorporeal undead (ghosts, wraiths, spectres, etc) - immune because there is no 'body' for you to possess.

    2. Corporeal undead (skeletons, ghouls, vampires, liches, etc) - can be possessed and get a saving throw as normal.  If you possess a non-intelligent undead (like a skeleton), no soul goes into the jar, you just take over the body.  When you leave the body, it continues to be animated by negative energy as before.



    (sorry for the multiple edits - it wasn't actually displaying the bulleted list above as I had entered it.)

    @Yogumi - I could make the same response to your first post Undecided

    Back on topic, this is actually a pretty good question because the rules are not explicit on this (which is pretty common in 3.5, really.



    @RisingZan  Obviously it was a ploy to get Oma to speak clean English, and he resorted to Spanish, which I think is against the rules on these boards.  (He was insulting I think with that spanish.)  Not someone to have on our friendly boards eh?  :P

    It's not a good question btw.  It's like trying to swap your soul with a tree.  It has to have a soul and a body, just because it's alive doesn't mean you can swap with it.  Outsiders clearly do not have a soul because they're different beings.  Using Magic Jar just flat out doesn't work with them.  (Minus Native Sub-Type.)
    @Yogumi - I could make the same response to your first post Undecided

    Back on topic, this is actually a pretty good question because the rules are not explicit on this (which is pretty common in 3.5, really.



    @RisingZan  Obviously it was a ploy to get Oma to speak clean English, and he resorted to Spanish, which I think is against the rules on these boards.  (He was insulting I think with that spanish.)  Not someone to have on our friendly boards eh?  :P

    It's not a good question btw.  It's like trying to swap your soul with a tree.  It has to have a soul and a body, just because it's alive doesn't mean you can swap with it.  Outsiders clearly do not have a soul because they're different beings.  Using Magic Jar just flat out doesn't work with them.  (Minus Native Sub-Type.)

    he wasn't insulting you - my (admittedly poor) translation was that he said if you can't do that "magic jar sucks', but I think there may have been a typo in his post as I couldn't translate one or two words.

    Anyway, I would say it was a good question because magic jar isn't explicit in saying that it doesn't work on certain creature types.  It can certainly be inferred based on the description of creature types, which is what I did, but it really is up to the DM's interpretation of those rules.


    Anyway, I would say it was a good question because magic jar isn't explicit in saying that it doesn't work on certain creature types.  It can certainly be inferred based on the description of creature types, which is what I did, but it really is up to the DM's interpretation of those rules.

    Having a body, and a soul, is pretty explicit in my opinion.  Creature types are laid out reasonably well in this regard.  Having a fused soul/body (1 combined) isn't a body, and a soul (2 seperate). 

    *edit note* - I suppose it can be argued what is a soul and body and the two aren't fused already.  But that isn't what the RAW or the RAI is talking about in either cause regarding the rules on Magic Jar.  And Magic Jar is powerful btw. 
    @Yogumi - I could make the same response to your first post

    Back on topic, this is actually a pretty good question because the rules are not explicit on this (which is pretty common in 3.5, really)

    The text for both elementals and outsiders is the same:
    Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider/elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider/elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider/elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.


    Outsiders also have this additional line:
    An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.



    The description of magic jar states that you try to possess the creature, and if it fails a saving throw, you take over its body and force its soul into the jar.

    Ultimately, this scenario has to be decided by your Dungeon Master, because the rules are not specific.
    Here's how I would rule for various special creature types as a DM:


    • Outsiders - automatically make the saving throw, because the soul cannot be removed from the body.


    1. Native outsiders can be affected normally, because their souls can be removed and returned.

    2. Note that even if the DM rules that Magic Jar can be used on outsiders, that many powerful outsiders, such as Angels and Archons, have a constant Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil effect, which blocks Magic Jar.  Some other outsiders can use similar powers as a spell-like ability, so they may have it in effect while you are trying to use magic jar.


  • Elementals - also automatically make the saving throw, and they don't usually even have a "body" anyway (fire and air elementals, for example)

  • Constructs - are completely immune to all necromantic effects.  You actually would not even detect them while you are in the Jar because they do not have any sort of life force, so you couldn't try to target them with it anyway.  (This is the one case that is explicitly in the rules)

  • Undead - depends on the type


    1. Incorporeal undead (ghosts, wraiths, spectres, etc) - immune because there is no 'body' for you to possess.

    2. Corporeal undead (skeletons, ghouls, vampires, liches, etc) - can be possessed and get a saving throw as normal.  If you possess a non-intelligent undead (like a skeleton), no soul goes into the jar, you just take over the body.  When you leave the body, it continues to be animated by negative energy as before.



    (sorry for the multiple edits - it wasn't actually displaying the bulleted list above as I had entered it.)


    thanks this a very usefull reply now I agree with you at all but the description of magic jar say that only sensitive undead can be affected i think this undead are the intelligent undead therefore non-inteligent undead are immunes.
    Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
    outsider have body and soul melted in one object ok ? this mean that magic jar capture entire body of outsider becouse body can not be separed for soul (you can not split it)
    entire outsider is puted in the magic jar, the equipment fall down on the ground becouse equipment haven't a soul.
    be a outsider not give only advantage, but some time give some penalty
    outsider have body and soul melted in one object ok ? this mean that magic jar capture entire body of outsider becouse body can not be separed for soul (you can not split it)
    entire outsider is puted in the magic jar, the equipment fall down on the ground becouse equipment haven't a soul.
    be a outsider not give only advantage, but some time give some penalty

    thanks for your reply i agree with this
    Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.