What would you have done with this pool?

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I now only play sealed at pre-releases as I was never the biggest fan of the sealed format. I'm now past 2 years of getting auto-loss pools. In my opinion anyway, but maybe you guys will notice something I missed.


White


Avenging arrow
Bazaar krovod
knightly valor
phantom general
Selesnya sentry
2xswift justice
2xtrostani's judgment


Blue



2x crosstown courier
2x cancel
downsize
conjured currency
2x tower drake
syncopate
mizzium skin
faerie impostor
inaction injuction


Red



2xelectrickery
ash zealot
annihilating fire
viashino racketeer
dynacharge
batterhorn
tenement crasher


Black


2x terrus wurm
2x cremate
2x destroy the evidence
2x perilous shadow
drainpipe vermin
stab wound
thrill-kill assassin
zanikev locust
dead reveler
necropolis regent

Green

wild beastmaster (opened this in both pre-releases, but didn't play it)
2x druid's deliverance 
2x Centaur's herald/[c][c]chorus of might
giant growth
drudge beetle
seek the horizon
Gatecreeper vine
stonefare crocodile
Axebane stag
korozda monitor
chorus of might

Azorius
judge's famliar
new prahv guildmage
fall of the gavel
Search warrant

Rakdos

dreadbore
auger spree
skull rend

Selesnya

centaur healer
selesnya charm
courser's accord

Izzet
Goblin electromancer
2xessence backlash
chemister's trick

Golgari
treasured find
2xKorozda guildmage
2xtrestle troll
abrupt decay
dreg mangler
corpsejack menace
2xGolgari longlegs

Artifacts
izzet keyrune
civic saber

Lands
2x golgari guildgate
rakdos guildgate
rogue's passage




Managed to draw one game and lost the other 4. Despite being black, the deck only had 2 removal, and had to splash for the 3rd. And only had 3 scavenge cards (2 of which were in the guildpack), which made corpsejack underwhelming. The guildmage wasn't of much use since I could never afford to sacrifice anything, and all but 1 of my opponents were unaffected by itimidate

Would have given an arm for a scorpion.  (for some reason, every golgari player seemed to have double destroy the eivdence.)
Golgari is definitely the strongest guild, but I think I might actually play White as my third color instead of Red; A few multicolor-spells and the two Judgments seem worth a splash.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
That pool looks awesome. Your decklist has the Rakdos Guildgate but it doesn't include either of the (great) Rakdos removal spells. Is this a mistake?

You have no shortage of removal. Stab Wound, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore and Auger Spree are the strongest B/G/R removal spells in the format.

I would have included the Beastmaster. It has good synergy with your double Guildmages and your scavengers.

Perilous Shadow is also pretty nice. Probably better than Trestle Troll for your maindeck.

I would have tried to fit in one of your Terrus Wurms. Possibly instead of the Axebane Stag. Scavenging one of those on your Beastmaster is GG.
Golgari is definitely the strongest guild, but I think I might actually play White as my third color instead of Red; A few multicolor-spells and the two Judgments seem worth a splash.



The guildgate made red easier to splash, as you could fetch it with gatecreeper and still use the black mana.

But which multicolor spells were you reffering to? 

Deck? 
That pool looks awesome. Your decklist has the Rakdos Guildgate but it doesn't include either of the (great) Rakdos removal spells. Is this a mistake?

You have no shortage of removal. Stab Wound, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore and Auger Spree are the strongest B/G/R removal spells in the format.

I would have included the Beastmaster. It has good synergy with your double Guildmages and your scavengers.

Perilous Shadow is also pretty nice. Probably better than Trestle Troll for your maindeck.

I would have tried to fit in one of your Terrus Wurms. Possibly instead of the Axebane Stag. Scavenging one of those on your Beastmaster is GG.



Oops yeah, that was a mistake, dreadbore was in the deck. I didn't put auger spree for 2 reasons. 1. It doesn't kill the creature that really need to be answered. Some annoying uncommons and almost every bomb survive it. 2. I felt te mana base could not support more than one red spell.

There are three removal in the deck, which I don't consider to be a lot. And stab wound is limited in what it can deal with (so is dreadbore in limited. It's good, but it often can't remove what you'd actually want to target)

As for beastmaster. There are only THREE cards with scavenge in the deck.  I tried playing the wurm but the deck just wasn't good enough to survive to scavenge it. And it requires six mana from the guildmage just to give a +2/+2. The choice of creatures meant a screwy curve, so controlling enough creatures to make an attack with the beastmaster worth it was impossible. I tried it in the first three games,and even with a guildmage next to it, it was useless. It can't attack or block efficiently, despite costing 3, and needs support to do anything. I couldn't afford to give a spot to a card like that.

I have one shadow, because it costs four and the curve was already giing the early game advantage to my opponent. And without the trolls, I have nothing against flying creatures. They were actually the most useful cards that day, since I always ended up on the defensive.

I originally had the wurm, but switched it for the stag because I just could not deal with big creatures. Every other golgari player had better stuff than me, and it was impossible for the cards I had to deal with creatures pumped with scavange. After turn 5, they could pretty much scavenge every other turn. I needed something with a toughness higher than 5. A golgari deck without scavenge doesn't go anywhere fast as I found out. 

And I assure you, this pool is far from awesome. 
Golgari is definitely the strongest guild, but I think I might actually play White as my third color instead of Red; A few multicolor-spells and the two Judgments seem worth a splash.



The guildgate made red easier to splash, as you could fetch it with gatecreeper and still use the black mana.

But which multicolor spells were you reffering to? 

Deck? 



The Selesnya ones. I haven't tried putting a deck together... It'd be something like this:
2 Trostani's Judgment

1 Stab Wound
1 Thrill-Kill Assassin
1 Dead Reveler
1 Zanikev Locust
1 Perilous Shadow
1 Necropolis Regent

1 Wild Beastmaster
1 Drudge Beetle
1 Korozda Monitor
1 Gatecreeper Vine
1 Stonefare Crocodile

2 Korozda Guildmage
2 Trestle Troll
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Abrupt Decay

1 Courser's Accord
1 Centaur Healer
1 Selesnya Charm

2 Golgari Guildgate
3 Plains
6 Forest
6 Swamp
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
Golgari is definitely the strongest guild, but I think I might actually play White as my third color instead of Red; A few multicolor-spells and the two Judgments seem worth a splash.



The guildgate made red easier to splash, as you could fetch it with gatecreeper and still use the black mana.

But which multicolor spells were you reffering to? 

Deck? 



The Selesnya ones. I haven't tried putting a deck together... It'd be something like this:
2 Trostani's Judgment

1 Stab Wound
1 Thrill-Kill Assassin
1 Dead Reveler
1 Zanikev Locust
1 Perilous Shadow
1 Necropolis Regent

1 Wild Beastmaster
1 Drudge Beetle
1 Korozda Monitor
1 Gatecreeper Vine
1 Stonefare Crocodile

2 Korozda Guildmage
2 Trestle Troll
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Abrupt Decay

1 Courser's Accord
1 Centaur Healer
1 Selesnya Charm

2 Golgari Guildgate
3 Plains
6 Forest
6 Swamp



I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing 5 white spells with 3 plains. And I wouldn't bother with wild beastmaster.
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing 5 white spells with 3 plains. And I wouldn't bother with wild beastmaster.



The Vine also finds White, so you have 4 White sources, and you can reliably wait on the White spells for a while. Also, the deck has potentially seven ways to pump the Beastmaster (using Korozda Guildmage to intimidate and pump it could be big game).
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
Auger Spree is one of the best removal spells available; it looks bad compared to Dreadbore, but Dreadbore is a rare after all. It kills 2 of the guild prerelease promos all the time and another one half the time. It's also an instant.

I could definitely be wrong about the beastmaster. I haven't seen it played yet. I'm just guessing about its usefulness. It might just be that you were unlucky enough to face other black/green decks so the Guildmage's intimidate didn't help.

By the way, I see 4 scavenge cards in your decklist, not 3.

If you had trouble with other Golgari decks, those SB Cremates seem mighty useful. It might even be okay to maindeck one because it cantrips.
I think not playing wild beastmaster was a mistake in here.

I also opened it during my pre-release and was sceptical about its real power. Here it is: it won all the games I had him on the board.

If you attack with it, and 2-3 other creatures, a Giant Growth, chorus of might or even a Selesnya Charm on it as instant will wipe the board if your opponent decided to block, or get you very close to a win if he didn't.

I'm not even mentioning scavenge on him... As long as people value it quite low, I'll always be happy to draft it. Smile   
    
@Lobster
You don't even have a coin flip chance of playing T's Judgment until turn 10 in that deck. 


Either this or something similar but splashing the three Selesnya cards is right I'm pretty sure. Having both Rogue's Passage and Wild Beastmaster is nice, it gives you a lot of reach.

I think not playing wild beastmaster was a mistake in here.

I also opened it during my pre-release and was sceptical about its real power. Here it is: it won all the games I had him on the board.

If you attack with it, and 2-3 other creatures, a Giant Growth, chorus of might or even a Selesnya Charm on it as instant will wipe the board if your opponent decided to block, or get you very close to a win if he didn't.

I'm not even mentioning scavenge on him... As long as people value it quite low, I'll always be happy to draft it. Smile   
    



You do know that you have to pump him before blockers for it to work, correct? You can never "blow out" your opponent out of nowhere with an instant.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
I think not playing wild beastmaster was a mistake in here.

I also opened it during my pre-release and was sceptical about its real power. Here it is: it won all the games I had him on the board.

If you attack with it, and 2-3 other creatures, a Giant Growth, chorus of might or even a Selesnya Charm on it as instant will wipe the board if your opponent decided to block, or get you very close to a win if he didn't.

I'm not even mentioning scavenge on him... As long as people value it quite low, I'll always be happy to draft it. Smile   
    



You do know that you have to pump him before blockers for it to work, correct? You can never "blow out" your opponent out of nowhere with an instant.



That's what I was thinking.  You have to pump him before his trigger goes on when he attacks.

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
I think not playing wild beastmaster was a mistake in here.

I also opened it during my pre-release and was sceptical about its real power. Here it is: it won all the games I had him on the board.

If you attack with it, and 2-3 other creatures, a Giant Growth, chorus of might or even a Selesnya Charm on it as instant will wipe the board if your opponent decided to block, or get you very close to a win if he didn't.

I'm not even mentioning scavenge on him... As long as people value it quite low, I'll always be happy to draft it. Smile   
    



You do know that you have to pump him before blockers for it to work, correct? You can never "blow out" your opponent out of nowhere with an instant.



That's what I was thinking.  You have to pump him before his trigger goes on when he attacks.



Yes, I'm not expert in the rules.
So once you declare you attackers, the bonus is immediate to the other creatures, right?

If your opponent put let's say Stab Wound on it when you declare your attackers, a Giant growth won't be taken into account for the other creatures, right?

Of course, in this situation the master would die at the end of the turn...  
    

I wouldn't say I'm an expert on the rules either, but let me see if I can explain this given the context of what you're saying. 

First off, while Stab Wound is unusable since it's an enchantment, let's use Augur Spree instead.  Let's say you cast Giant Growth on it, then declared attackers.  The ability of the Beastmaster would go on the stack.  If your opponent uses Augur Spree, it will kill the Beastmaster.  According to the Gatherer ruling:

"The value of X is determined when the triggered ability resolves. If Wild Beastmaster is no longer on the battlefield at that time, use its last known power to determine the value of X. This could be bad for you if Wild Beastmaster’s power was negative. For example, if Wild Beastmaster’s power is -4, each other creature you control will get -4/-4 until end of turn."

With Augur Spree activated, its last known power would be 8 before it dies if I'm reading this correctly, so it would give +8/+8 to other creatures.  (Which goes to show that you need to use that pre-combat).  If instead you used something along the lines of Grasp of Darkness to kill it, it would give all creatures -3/-3.

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
I wouldn't say I'm an expert on the rules either, but let me see if I can explain this given the context of what you're saying. 

First off, while Stab Wound is unusable since it's an enchantment, let's use Augur Spree instead.  Let's say you cast Giant Growth on it, then declared attackers.  The ability of the Beastmaster would go on the stack.  If your opponent uses Augur Spree, it will kill the Beastmaster.  According to the Gatherer ruling:

"The value of X is determined when the triggered ability resolves. If Wild Beastmaster is no longer on the battlefield at that time, use its last known power to determine the value of X. This could be bad for you if Wild Beastmaster’s power was negative. For example, if Wild Beastmaster’s power is -4, each other creature you control will get -4/-4 until end of turn."

With Augur Spree activated, its last known power would be 8 before it dies if I'm reading this correctly, so it would give +8/+8 to other creatures.  (Which goes to show that you need to use that pre-combat).  If instead you used something along the lines of Grasp of Darkness to kill it, it would give all creatures -3/-3.



Why would an opponent let the beast master pump all your attackers then kill it? This is how it would work:

1. You declare your attack phase
2. You giant growth your beast master into a 4/4
3. Your opponent responds with Auger Spree 
4. Auger Spree Resolves, killing the beast master as an 8/0
5. You declare attackers (no beastmaster bonus) 

??? 

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.


First off, while Stab Wound is unusable since it's an enchantment, let's use Augur Spree instead.


Thanks for correcting this silly mistake... It's been a long day...  



Either this or something similar but splashing the three Selesnya cards is right I'm pretty sure. Having both Rogue's Passage and Wild Beastmaster is nice, it gives you a lot of reach.


My list would be this, -2 swamp, +1 rakdos guildgate, +2 mountain 
-1 civic saber, -1 perilous shadow, -1 crocodile, +1 dreadbore, +1 auger spree

I'd easily play 18 lands with such a strong deck that always finds a use for its mana and not splashing two of some of the best removals in the set sounds wrong. Red over white because Judgments all cost 6, and selesnya charm is not worth splashing. If I want my splash card to be a dead card until turn 7-8, I sure hope it's something better than gw charm that can be 'cute' with Beastmaster. Cheap removal will be cheap late game, where it'll allow you to kill stuff and scavenge in the same turn. 

The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet
Yes, I'm not expert in the rules.
So once you declare you attackers, the bonus is immediate to the other creatures, right?

If your opponent put let's say Stab Wound on it when you declare your attackers, a Giant growth won't be taken into account for the other creatures, right?

Of course, in this situation the master would die at the end of the turn...  



In the Declare Attackers step, you declare your attackers (including the Beastmaster). This triggers the ability from the Beastmaster, which is then put on the stack. You have the opportunity to pump her in response to this trigger if you have instant speed pump, just like your opponent has the opportunity to shrink it (though I can't think of anything outside Golgari Charm that could actually do so at instant speed). When the trigger resolves, that is when the Beastmaster's power (or last known power if it died) is checked; This means it works even if your opponent kills it in response to the trigger; There's no way to stop the ability once the Beastmaster is declared attacking.

Then, we move to the Declare Blockers step where your opponent decides who blocks who. At this point the bonus has already been applied, and further pumping the Beastmaster will only affect herself.

You can't cast Stab Wound at instant speed.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!

Why would an opponent let the beast master pump all your attackers then kill it? This is how it would work:

1. You declare your attack phase
2. You giant growth your beast master into a 4/4
3. Your opponent responds with Auger Spree 
4. Auger Spree Resolves, killing the beast master as an 8/0
5. You declare attackers (no beastmaster bonus) 

??? 



First off, I personally would not pump my Beastmaster until the ability of the Beastmaster was on the stack, since there is very little that shrinks a creature in this format at instant speed, so I would not Growth it until then. 

Second, I said I was going to try and explain it In the context of what he was saying, not what would normally be done.  He seemed to be asking, at least to how I read it, what would happen if the creature were killed by some kind of effect like Stab Wound (though he admits Stab Wound was a silly mistake to use) when attackers were declared (or as I took it, when the ability was stacked).  I tried to give the best possible response in that scenario, given that I was not sure at the time myself and had to look it up.

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
bold words Tongue Out 

So basically, in a scenario that wouldn't happen, what was suggested could happen wouldn't happen. No need to get testy about it.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

bold words Tongue Out 

So basically, in a scenario that wouldn't happen, what was suggested could happen wouldn't happen. No need to get testy about it.



I bolded my words, not to be testy or annoying, but to show why I gave the answer I did.  Also, how many people know that the ability would resolve anyway and check the power it had last before dying?  I didn't.  I honestly believed before looking up the ruling that the ability would be negated as there was no power to check when it resolved.  Now I know what to watch out for when playing with or against the Beastmaster.  I'm fairly certain that there are others who play that do not know it either and might kill the creature after attackers are declared to try and fizzle the ability and bring the creatures over not pumped, as I might have before.  So saying it wouldn't happen may be wrong and something you can use to your own advantage.  It's part of why I posted the full ruling in my response. 

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
@Nighthavk
You're right. I completely missed how splashable the :rb: cards were. I'm absolutely terrible at trying to figure out text pools, it is much easier to have the cards in front of you.
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing 5 white spells with 3 plains. And I wouldn't bother with wild beastmaster.



The Vine also finds White, so you have 4 White sources, and you can reliably wait on the White spells for a while. Also, the deck has potentially seven ways to pump the Beastmaster (using Korozda Guildmage to intimidate and pump it could be big game).



Like I said earlier, the guildmage + beastmaster has marginal use. I'd want at least a +3 to attack with it, and that would cost me 9 mana. Anything less, it probably won't suvive, so it ends up being a very expensive pump spell, in which case, chorus of might would be better. (added to the list, it was apparently lost in editing)

I'd play it in draft, but not often in sealed. And playing the deck, there has been no situation where I would have wanted to draw it. 

I think not playing 
wild beastmaster was a mistake in here.

I also opened it during my pre-release and was sceptical about its real power. Here it is: it won all the games I had him on the board.

If you attack with it, and 2-3 other creatures, a Giant Growthchorus of might or even a Selesnya Charm on it as instant will wipe the board if your opponent decided to block, or get you very close to a win if he didn't.

I'm not even mentioning scavenge on him... As long as people value it quite low, I'll always be happy to draft it.
 

Good point about scavenge, but as you can see, this pool was low on scavenge creatures. In 5 rounds I never scavenged more than once per game (sometimes not at all). Not having the scorpion, my best scavenge is korzoda monitor, but it also happens to be a creature I want to keep on the battlefield. I'll have to keep that in mind though.

With Augur Spree activated, its last known power would be 8 before it dies if I'm reading this correctly, so it would give +8/+8 to other creatures.  (Which goes to show that you need to use that pre-combat).  If instead you used something along the lines of 
Grasp of Darkness to kill it, it would give all creatures -3/-3. 


I had completely forgotten about last known information rule. I figured it would be considered 0 if it wasn't on the battlefield on resolution. Good information.

Having both 
Rogue's Passage and Wild Beastmaster is nice, it gives you a lot of reach.


I don't know. It's 5 mana for a +1 and you're probably doing nothing else that turn. I can't believe you wouldn't play golgari longlegs though.

In the 
Declare Attackers step, you declare your attackers (including the Beastmaster). This triggers the ability from the Beastmaster, which is then put on the stack. You have the opportunity to pump her in response to this trigger if you have instant speed pump, just like your opponent has the opportunity to shrink it (though I can't think of anything outside Golgari Charm that could actually do so at instant speed). When the trigger resolves, that is when the Beastmaster's power (or last known power if it died) is checked; This means it works even if your opponent kills it in response to the trigger; There's no way to stop the ability once the Beastmaster is declared attacking.


This is correct. however, if you wait to see if your opponent plays something to use your instant, and they decide not to, you just lost the opportunity to cast anything on it since you've passed priority already. And since the beastmaster is a 1/1 at that point, it's very likely your opponent won't waste a spell on it and just kill it on block. I don't think this is the optimal play.

@
Nighthavk
You're right. I completely missed how splashable the :rb: cards were. I'm absolutely terrible at trying to figure out text pools, it is much easier to have the cards in front of you.


Weird, it's the opposite for me. I wish I had a text file when I seal Makes for easier data analysis.

@Phaseshifter:
I have no clue what you're refering to when you say a "+1".
My point about the Guildmage mainly applied if the opponent had no Green creatures. Getting in for 2 and pumping the rest of your guys for 2 is pretty sweet.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
@Phaseshifter:
I have no clue what you're refering to when you say a "+1".



+1/+1 on each creature.
@Phaseshifter:
I have no clue what you're refering to when you say a "+1".



+1/+1 on each creature.



Well if you're talking about the Beastmaster's ability not being good reach, consider the fact that I had eight ways to buff her in my deck.