O Ring with Disperse versus Fiend Hunter

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hello, I wish to ask about Oblivion Ring being used with Disperse, how does that compare to Fiend Hunter being the target of Cloudshift? Is Fiend Hunter leaving the battlefield when exiled? How is it that his second ability does not take effect?Someone please explain, I would appreciate it
It's basically the same except instead of the oblivion ring going back to your hand, the fiend hunter re-enters the battlefield and exiles another thing temporarily.

In both cases, responding to the ETB trigger will exile the initial target indefinitely. 
All Generalizations are Bad
Is Fiend Hunter leaving the battlefield when exiled?

Yes.
Both EXILE and BATTLEFIELD are Game Zones.
«A zone is a place where objects can be during a game».

Any object can only be in one zone at any given time:
Fiend Hunter must leave the Battlefield Zone in order to reach the Exile Zone.

There are eight Zones in the game of Magic...
...some of which are straightforward:
-Library
-Hand
-Battlefield
-Graveyard

...some of which one quickly learns about:
-Stack
-Exile

...some of which you may never have to care about:
-Command
-Ante    
       
Check up rule #400 for details.

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

How is it that his second ability does not take effect?Someone please explain, I would appreciate it


It's because you remove the Oblivion Ring or Fiend Hunter from the battlefield in response to it's enters the battlefield ability as follows:

Oblivion Ring resolves and enters the battlefield.  Its ETB triggers, it goes on the stack and you choose a target.  The stack looks like:

Top of Stack
Oblivion Ring's ETB effect
Bottom of Stack

In response, you cast Disperse targetting the Oblivion Ring

Top of Stack
Disperse
Oblivion Ring's ETB effect
Bottom of Stack

Disperse resolves, returning Oblivion Ring to your hand and it's LTB effect triggers

Top of Stack
Oblivion Ring's LTB effect
Oblivion Ring's ETB effect
Bottom of Stack

Oblivion Ring's LTB effect resolves, returning nothing (as nothing has been exiled yet).

then

Oblivion Ring's ETB effect resolves, exiling the targetted permanent.

There is no longer a linked ability to return this permanent as the Oblivion Ring that exiled it no longer exists in the game.  Even if you replay the same Oblivion Ring it became a new game object once it changed zones.

Cheers
How is it that his second ability does not take effect?Someone please explain, I would appreciate it



This card trick has one purpose: TO REVERSE the order of the two effects from Fiend Hunter. 
So, Hunter now first tries to «return the card that was exiled», and then tries to «exile a card».

But how can it return the exiled card since it has not yet exiled any card?
It can't. So it doesn't.

Net result:
1-Hunter tries but fails to «return the card that was exiled».
2-And then, it tries and succeeds to «exile a card». (but won't anymore try to return it!)

Et voilà!

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

I still want to combo Sudden Disappearance + Sundial of the Infinite

what's that? Your cards aren't coming back from exile? well that's horribly unfortunate...

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

So the [C]Sundial of the Infinite[/C] skips the end step by ending the turn whenever you want?
Wouldn't [C]Sudden Disappearance[/C] just resolve at the opponent's next end step?
I am Blue/White
you use Sundial of the Infinite in response to Sudden Disappearance's trigger
the trigger is removed from the stack (because the turn ends) and will not trigger again

if you do it at any other time, you're right, it will trigger at the opponent's end step
proud member of the 2011 community team
This leads to one of my favorite declarations: "At end of turn, I end the turn."
Sign In to post comments